Too Good to be False? (Tom Gilson response) 

Wow. What a train wreck. You should read the book next time. The points you rebutted had some superficial resemblance to my arguments, but only superficial. I think if you'd listened to my interviews more carefully you could have done a better job of understanding what I was saying. The fact is, though, you spent the whole video rebutting arguments I don't make. In one case you strongly supported a key premise of one of my arguments, even as you thought you were delivering a knock-out blow against it. I'll prepare a real response for you elsewhere. I do not intend to follow comments here, since I know from experience how quickly they pile up after I make a comment like this on an atheist page, and I have other work to do. For now, just know that you really should have read the book so you would have at least had some clue what you were talking about. I mean, I don't care if you buy the book. I'm just thinking that for your sake, if you'd wanted to do a video rebutting me, you might have found it at least somewhat in your own self-interest to know what you were talking about.

"Jesus never used his power for himself, only for the good of others" yeah, a certain fig tree begs to wither.

[Sings]: "Noooo oooone's slick as Gaston No one's quick as Gaston No one's neck's as incredibly thick as Gaston's For there's no man in town half as manly Perfect, a pure paragon!..." Therefore, Gaston is the Son of God! It's all true!

The Apostle Paul was more influential on Christianity than Jesus.

"But Jesus had to be real if they wrote stories about him." By that same logic Hercules is real.

Whenever I hear 'No one has ever written a character as good as Jesus', knowing what I know about the bible, what I hear is 'I haven't read many other books than the bible'.

"No one could create a figure like Jesus." I guess they didn't watch Shrek.

"You can't write a Character like Jesus!" Messianic Archetype. A literary trope that dates back to (and is named by) the Torah!

Sermon on the Mount. This is literately the first time I’ve ever heard anyone suggest that this was Jesus’ actual FIRST sermon. Why would there be like 5000 people there to hear him speak if they hadn’t already heard of him and had a reason to think he would say something inspiring?

I appreciate the calm manner in which you go through these videos. Many people get heated which can color the video. Keep up the good work.

Of course Tolkien never met a hobbit or a wizard. He just found and translated the Red Book of Westmarch, which contained Bilbo and Frodo's writings about their time with the One Ring, along with some other texts.

Gospels? More like "The Four *Gossips*". And that is the genre they are written as: gossip.

The Illiad and the Odyssey, contain some of the best and most famous characters in history along with beautiful writing and as we now know had its origins in an actual event. It's at least two thousand years or so older then the gospels and was also a source for religious thinking. All though it may have lost its status as a religious text, it's still in print and a good translation is so much more enjoyable then the gospels.

2:11 "i want to reach the everyday crea... christian" - hilarious

So was Lincoln a vampire hunter or not,... Now I am unsecure

I'm not a major skeptic. I am a lieutenant skeptic.

all those terrible consumer protection people saying "if it sounds too good to be true ....". How can Christians fight against that? same way software companies do, just proclaim "it's not a bug IT'S A FEATURE !!!!!!!"

What do you mean nobody could create a character like Jesus? We created the character of God, didn't we?

@9:34 "[Jesus] never gets the least bit flustered" Uh...except at fig trees.

Your content is very high quality and Im surprised you havent gained more subs over the past few months, keep up the great work!

Excellent, Paulogia! Your dissection of Tom, Frank and Wood's commentary are so spot on! Thoroughly enjoyed your efforts. Thank you so much for your excellent work and sharing them with us. Take care and keep well! 😊🙏

Isn't it amazing that Pontius Pilate was the only person who could have been written into history as converting to Christianity. He was not converted because the Bible writers new that they would have been recorded as liars. Also any insignificant person became a convert.

Theists. Always so easily impressed (when it suits them).

Apologists MUST be hurting if they're putting out this kind of crap

Apologetics remains a house of cards... this time built on pure hype.

💚 *quality content* 💚

Three central elements of apologist methods: 1) say words in response to criticism so that you can claim to have answered criticism. 2) Throw out endless words so that when arguing with critics you can bring up esoteric BS in order to pretend that critics can't address legitimate arguments. 3) Make Barnum statements without clarifying the specific facts that are supposed to justify the statements.

Thanks for your work, Paul

It is interesting how they marvel at "Jesus' love" and how Christians should embrace it as a model for living, and yet evangelicals fail to criticize leaders like Trump when they spew such divisive rhetoric as a means to move the country to be more Christian and loving.

That list of endorsements was LOLOLOL. It's basically: "Everyone in the same bubble as me loves my work." No kidding.

Sounds like it's going to be about as empty as the tomb!

The number of lies required to keep Christianity going is phenomenal.

Yeah he can be said that Luke Skywalker is a Mary Sue.

Martin Luther King repeated his "I Have A Dream" speech several times... or at least twice that I witnessed. It's easy to assume Jesus repeated his speeches, especially since there were no microphones.

They are professional apologists. Thus they can lie with a straight face with ease.

I don't understand their argument, like, at all... EVERY story is as miraculously unlikely as any other (except perhaps sequels)

Another great video Paulogia!!! Paulogia took apart that book without even reading it, he must be a profit! 😀

Jesus only used his power for others. So that darn tree was cursed for other people? Or because Jesus had a hissy fit?

I find it extraordinary that this supposed historian & researcher (who apparently can't even Google) isn't even aware that the character of *Jesus* _(his humanity, his divinity, even many aspects of his life, etc.)_ was still being argued several _CENTURIES_ after these specific *Gospels (⊕)* were thought to have been written..! Most of the other ideas of a more human, more flawed, *Jesus* were from folk stories as well as the other *Gospels* which were eliminated from *_Church Canon_* when the *Roman Emperor Constantine* decided to make *Christianity* the state Religion of the *Roman Empire.* He did this through the *Council of Nicea:* _(Basically a get together of those early church leaders who decided that their lives & power were worth more to them than any particular interpretation of _*_Jesus._*_ The other church leaders who objected out of faith in their own, perhaps less _*_Mary-Sue_*_ , version of _*_Jesus_*_ - or any other reason, really - were either banished, or just conveniently died...)_ Until I read more about *Constantine's* make-over of the early *_Christian Church_* , I was fairly puzzled why this *_Peace_* & *_Love_* / *_Hippy Character_* of *Jesus* , would occasionally say saying things like: *_"Do not think that I came to bring peace to the earth; I came not to bring peace, but a sword."_* *Matthew **10:34* ~ ~ ~ (⊕) Historians have tentatively identified over a dozen (non-canon) Gospels, including: • *The Gospel of {J/C's half brother} James* (Which detailed parts of Jesus's childhood as a budding serial killer...) • *The Gospel of Thomas* (A Skeptic who actually wanted *_Empirical Evidence_* of Christ's Resurrection, rather than taking it on Faith. Hmmm, I wonder why his Gospel isn't Church canon..? ; )~ ) • *The Gospel of Phillip* (One of those disciples with less dialogue) • *The Gospel of Judas* (Now tha;t would be interesting.) and even • *The Gospel of Mary {Magdeline}* (a VERY different person than the twisted caricature, assembled from several unnamed prostitutes by *Pope Gregory the 1st.* 'Cause the idea of a Powerful & Independent Woman was just as popular in the *_Christian Church_* back then, as it is now...)

Do you have any sorce that you can share for 1st centry apocalyptic preachers?

Okay, I absolutely love that you used clips of David Wood to refute Gilson (and Turek). As a former Christian who has spent much of my life reading and writing fanfics, I'm well aware of the presence of Mary Sues and their construction - I've written a number of them myself when I was younger (and that's why I try to avoid original characters these days as they have a tendency to slide into Mary Sue land). I have to say that when I was a Christian, I would have found the arguments from Gilson as extremely off-putting and terrible. They would have had the opposite of the intended effect had I come across them when I was a believer.

Paul, I turn you on late at night sitting with a sleepless baby. You keep me company in some of the loneliest moments of my life. Thank you.

Maybe Gilson's book does contain persuasive points and argument but his big mistake was being interviewed by Turek which is the best way to garble any message. I didn't hear any protests from Gilson, though - did @Paulogia edit those out???! :-)

Paula Smith created a character of perfect power and perfect love.

People aren't talking about a sermon Jesus gave two thousand years after the fact, they're taking about a book of claims that includes a claim that Jesus gave such a sermon two thousand years ago.

Anyone else expected the line to go like: "Some of history's greatest writers suffered from mental illness: Charles Dickens, F. Scott Fitzgerald, H.P. Lovecraft, Leo Tolstoy, Virginia Woolf, H.P. Lovecraft, Ernest Hemingway, Philip K. Dick, H.P. Lovecraft, Stephen King, H.P. Lovecraft..."

Hi Paul, Have you read Kahlil Gibran? His Prophet is sublime. It actually challenged my faith when I was a devout Christian. Please take a look at it. It would be a good example of Jesus level characters in fiction.

Jesus the vampire slayer when?

14:59 No, but he could have met a dwarf or two and extrapolated from there.

in Australia we get dusty eskies all the time

The real irony is that this book of folk tales "evolved"...

1:48 OH BINGO I GOT BINGO THOSE ARE ALL MY SQUARES.

@13:01... Did he really say "cognitive _dissidence"?_

The name mary sue was a parody of the perfect female character taken from a star trek novel where the author purposely made the protagonist, mary sue, too perfect as a captain. which, today, the perfect male character is called a gary stu. so jesus is a gary stu.

Have you ever heard the followers of a cult leader talk about it point out the flaws of their “saviour”? No. They always talk about them as being perfect. This is why Jesus, if he actually existed, is always described as being perfect, flawless being.

Isn’t this a Mormon apologetic as well?

Paul, you’re the best

Tom Gilson is low hanging fruit. Having said that, I still would like to see Paul read his book and provide a detailed thorough rebuttal.

Did he say everyday Creeps... wow self own!

How does anyone not recognize and acknowledge the vast difference between the synoptic gospels and John's gospel. If the Jesus who appears in the pages of the synoptic gospels is grounded in some historical reality, then the Jesus of the fourth gospel is literary fiction.The two do not resemble one another. 😇

Frank Turek really needs to be selling extended car warranties, magazine subscriptions or the Juice Weasel on QVC or something.

Psychological profile. Didn't Chilton write a psychological profile of Jesus and call it biography?

I would read his book but I don't want to give him any money.

28:20 - 28:28 ... Wooooowww

Paul - what's wrong with me? I'm stuck in an infinite loop of watching your videos!! I've literally watched all your content atleast 5 times. I enjoy myself. And I'm not hurting anyone... 🤔 I'll deal with this later. First, I'm just gonna watch another video. Hehe.

George Lucas never flew a spaceship...

These people who think Mary Sues are great writing, they are the reason terrible writings get promoted, like "Twilight" or "Harry Potter: Cursed Child*" , either as getting sequels or being adapted to new media. * note to be made, its the fanfic play written by two guys I'm referring to, when made so ... ugh popular... convinced Rowling to help them adapt the play to book form, thus promoting it to new media.

Apparently the split rock is proof that God and the Bible are true how do I refute this argument.

It's been 9 months, has he got a response out yet? Would love to see it if he has.

I would argue that the character of John's Jesus is not the same as the synoptic Jesus at all. John's Jesus is much more talkative and pompous. He reminds me of people who try to seem mysterious by being needlessly vague and confusing. The synoptic Jesus strikes me as much more pleasant to be around.

The Sermon on the mount is not a sermon--who could think that it was? It was a holding pen for Q material that couldn't be fitted into the narrative.

Rung from IDW's Transformers is a better Jesus figure. He not only showed compassion to nearly everyone (including the one who nearly blew his head off) but he punched a moon!

Has he NEVER read a marvel comic book....??🤣🤣

It's one thing to be a conservative woman, it's another to be a conservative woman dating a man you know will not have your back if you safety is threatened. People can live with cognitive dissonance only up to a point.

Science: "Here is the evidence, what conclusion can we draw from it?" Religion: "Here is the conclusion, what evidence can we find to reaffirm it?"

These "arguments" are just awful. This book is just more proof that 99%+ of Christian apologetics exist only to siphon money away from those that already believe and just want a confidence boost.

Apologist [pointing to passages he likes]: "See? Jesus is so awesome, he has to have created the Universe!" Skeptic: [points to passages where Jesus says or does crazy shit like cursing olive trees, telling people to hate their families, etc., etc.] Apologist: "Who are you, oh [hu]man, to answer back to God? He's infinite, we're finite, so we can't judge him!" You can't have it both ways.

Funnily enough Dostoevsky literally did write a Jesus character in his novel "The Idiot" and that character actually had character development

Frankly, "Life of Brian" is a better story than the gospels.

They keep talking about Jesus' perfection. If I had to choose a Lord and Savior...it's Optimus Prime. He would never ask me to do anything he wasn't willing to do himself, he's practically the embodiment of justice and mercy while still being a warrior who will do what needs to be done to protect others, and he's proven time and time again that he's willing to die to protect others. And that protection actually IS a free gift. Whether you know about him or not, whether you accept him or not, he still fights the Decepticons.

Jesus: Blessed are the peacemakers Also Jesus: I come not to bring peace but a sword. What a consistent character!

Because it's a Mary Sue, it can't be made up? Wow they're really grasping at straws aren't they. =D This is so sad it's hilarious.

That psychopath dude using the same arguments to disprove the Quran I'm dying. =D Brilliant video, Paul.

So Jesus is too perfect and the reasonable conclusion from this to these people is not that the story is embellished but that Jesus is real?

I dont see any vampires around, clearly Lincoln killed them all.

Instead of addressing Paul's arguments, Tom uses the only ace up his sleeve: Paul didn't read the book. Well, sorry Tom but we don't need to read the book when you make your closing statement: "When I have a problem with what the bible says, the problem isn't with the bible, the problem is with me". This contains all the information any skeptic worth his salt needs. Your allegiance to a book of legends and myths, copied and retold, full of contradictions and problems is a lie, intentional or not, because if you have a problem, you simply change your interpretation.

The book title should actually be “I Really, Really Want It To Be So It Must Be True”.

This is so sad... Selling Christian literature must be easy as hell.

Reminds me of Cartman playing a "ninja" and continuously adding to his list of powers any time the situation needed something new.

Oh that group of backers and the credibility of Frank Turek, the most honestest apologist, to boot? I'm definitely convinced. *chuckle*

It's amazing to me that as the time goes on, they speak louder and faster. It's almost as if they are running from something, like their internal realizations that they are full of bologna.

Gilgamesh was way cooler than Jebus

The sermon on the mount was brilliant! Otherwise, how would we know that “cheese makers” is not meant to be taken literally but refers to any manufacturers of dairy products?

The Dune saga addresses precisely all these points.

Christians: "No one can write a character like Jesus!" Japanese anime/manga industry: "AM I A JOKE TO YOU?"

I have read Marvel comics better written and more believable than the Bible.

Paul, I read a book a long time ago that I think you'd enjoy. It's called "The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity" by Hyam Maccoby. It deals with the evolution of the Jesus character as Paul gained influence over Christian thought.

Jesus isn't a mary sue. He's a gary stu.

I've heard a lot of ludicrous arguments, but this one is pretty high on the list. I guess the Christian publishers have a pretty low bar these days.

Using Christian Apologists to disprove Christian Apologists. Love it!