Props to Arctic Scavengers, which you’ve also done a run through on. Takes multi use card deck builders and also throws in the skirmish at the end of the round, a neat bluffing element. I think it was like the second deck builder after Dominion as well. I love it!
Great list! I haven't played any of the bottom 5 (5-10) so yay new things to check out, and I own and love your top 5. I was just saying to a friend recently that deck building feels a little dead lately (and I really enjoy deck building), so this made me feel a bit better. Thanks for your efforts. :) Happy New Year!
Interesting list. I consider a lot of the games that fuse deckbuilding with other mechanisms (Great Western Trail, Clank!, etc) to be innovative/revolutionary for the deckbuilding genre but I get why they didn't meet your criteria.
Dale of Merchants is without a doubt my favorite deckbuilder and one of my favorites overall. Other ones that I really like After the Virus - fantastic acceleration of the doom (zombies) mechanic within your deck. Vikings Gone Wild - Deckbuilding is the strongest mechanic in the game but it isn't as integral as other deckbuilders. Need to get a few more plays in decide how well I like it. Friday - Not a fan of the artwork/theme even though I like Robinson Crusoe but the game is brilliantly designed. Two more on my shelf that need to get played - Aeon's End and Valley of the Kings
Dominion deserved the number 1 spot, hands down, not only because it's the original (nothing beats the original, right), but also because its limited 'playing actions and buying cards' system creates much more tactical choices to make. And the choices are the things that make the depth in this game. I expected Legendary to be on the list because of its theme, but on the other hand, what I said about choices to make doesn't apply to Legendary that much, so I understand the reason for not putting it on the list. Legendary is a great game, but it creates a lot of situations in which you have just a few very obvious actions to choose from, and a lot of times you find yourself generating resources which are useless during your turn, because you have too few or too many.
I really should try some dominion expansions, only played the base game and found it very dull, but if the expansions have added the much needed player interaction then it could be worth a shot.
I know there is wp in there but a large part of Mombasa is deck building. 3-5 decks, which must have inspired aeons end to some point. I really wish the deck building element of cry havoc had been done better. I also like what CMON did with deck building in xenoshyft. And my favorite game of all time forbidden stars has just a teeny bit of deck building.
Great list. I would personally add Path of Light and Shadow to this list of favorite “innovative” deck builders. And maybe Codex, but not sure it fits. Either way, deck building is awesome.
@@rahdo Interesting! Although I must say, Tyrants might have too much direct conflict for you and your game groups' tastes. It's area control too so you can directly attack another player but there's other ways to win too, like promoting cards out of your deck and thus earning more VP that way.
Nice list -- that I've not played any of. My closest was probably Valley of the Kings, as I've been more into Dragonfire, Legendary Alien, Hardback, and even weird stuff like Tyrants of the Underdark. Of the ones here, Dungeon Alliance looks particularly tempting (which is probably because I remain a sucker for theme).
Interesting list, I appreciate the thought you put into it. My personal favorite deck builder is A Study In Emerald 1st Edition. Also, I expected you to mention Gloomhaven, which has innovative deck building, card pool building, and card enhancement elements. I love your work, Rahdo. Thanks so much!
study in emerald is a bonkers brilliant game. i shoudl have maybe considered it more. gloomhaven, as much as i love it, is a hand builder, not a deck builder imo :)
Dominion is your #1? How? In my opinion,. it can be one of the meanest games out there! I thought you and Jen hated that kind of game! It honestly seems like you're giving it a pass because it "created the modern deck builder". Just saying... BTW - Merry Christmas!
we never play with any of the curse-type cards... there are so many other ones to choose from :) also, if you watched the vid, you'll note i said that just base dominion without expansions wouldn't even make this list :)
My wife and I love Dominion. It has been our favorite game for years. One word we have never used to describe Dominion is “mean”. Many people who don’t like Dominion actually complain there is not enough interaction in the game, but we have never felt that way. The expansions have added so much to the game beyond base Dominion. And base Dominion 2nd edition has greatly improved the base game. I imagine there are people who go all out when there is an attack card, but we never play that way. Besides, there so many ways to counteract these attacks now, even curse givers. They just don’t have the same impact as they did originally. Even the attack cards released in later expansions have been much weaker when it comes to their effect. Donald X. Vaccarino has said that most people don’t like attacks. So he has concentrated on interactions and mechanics that have added outstanding variety to the game. We have not played some of the other games mentioned in the list, but Dominion is definitely at the top of our list also.
I figured you might just remove the attack or curse cards if this rated so high for you. I actually like Dominion, and was just surprised to see it so high because of those cards. Are you going to do a top 10 (or 25, maybe: ) of games you're looking forward to for 2019?
23:55 Is it REALLY gonna be called Acquisitions Incorporated? That is a huge nod to Penny Arcade's Dungeon and Dragons campaign at PAX or a huge coincidence.
Thanks for the info.@@rahdo I'm just like~ no way! How exciting. A great game system and irreverent humor all in one package. It's like all my favorite things. Also, thanks for your video content through the years. :D My board games friends and I, who are in the same game group, are appreciative fans. I asked them if they like your videos and how they were useful. They are like heck yea and said their sister is a huge fan. She has like a poster.
i've always thought of it as a deckbuilder, but based on the restriction i imposed on myself in the intro, i couldn't include it because it's just... soemthing else! :)
i'm waiting for aeon's end legacy, i have all the other parts... :D also, have you tried pathogenesis? edit: also, i'm building a dungeon crawler/deck builder :D
I now realize that deck building is one of my least favorite mechanics in a game.. I on the other hand LOVE tableau building whether it is in terraforming mars or race for the galaxy or something a bit simpler like gizmos.
I own storm of soul, the one wth events, and i always have fun to play it. The events is a plus for me even if it require more attention. I did not try others sets, but some seems nice. I prefer ascension to dominion because it is more dynamic, game different each time.
@@honestword9277 In my opinion Ascension is exactly what Rahdo means by the traditional deckbuilder: multiplayer solo game. I play ascension a lot too on my phone, and I've just been in tabletop games for a bit more than half a year. It's perfect to play solo and I cannot imagine the bore of the opponent(s) while you are just doing your own combo in a physical copy. Realm Unleashed you mentioned happens to double down on the combo part, which gives the current player a greater thrill but makes the non-active player waiting even worse (I would imagine). I guess this is why RU is where we see the most powerful cards in this expansion (like the 7 cost monster that transform into the all-faction multi-unite, or the 8 cost enlightened hero that transforms into game breaking beast AFTER you play all 4 factions in one turn). Later expansions all gives new mechanisms (mostly very lacking in my opinion, for example the last one with the temples) but never focusing on the combo, again because combos are fun only for the currently player. What I do is I bought the game with all expansions again on Steam, and play 1 player vs 1 computer on my PC (minimizing opponent number = minimizing my waiting time). I use Cheat Engine to turn the 120 victory point pool into 500, or 1000, and go to town. I mostly play with RU with all promo or ALL expansions with ALL promo. The computer sometimes have too much to think about and still takes a long time for every card it plays though. What I meant to say is, all this length I've gone to exactly prove Rahdo to be true, a lot of tradition DB games are multiplayer solitaire games. And I think to only grip the fun part, don't play the tabletop and maximize your experience on digital, and only treat them as.... I guess, a treat? not a full tabletop gaming experience.
There are so many great deckbuilders! The one we play the most is Harry Potter: Hogwarts Battle because my kids and wife are HP fans, but we also have Arctic Scavengers, Paperback, Hardback, Star Realms and Legendary.
Any thoughts on where Shadowrift would fall on this list? You've rated the game in between Mystic Vale and Big Book of Madness. The deck building is akin to Dominion, but the decision making feels very different to me. Plus it's co-op. You could also argue that you're building the villager deck, which is shared between the players. It's an older game, but I seem to recall you both enjoyed it.
yeah, i really did enjoy shadowrift, but i got rid of my 2nd edition when i discovered how much more we enjoy aeon's end. and yes, one of the coolest things about SR is that multiple decks are in play, being built, which is very cool. that fact also got me to include it on this list!
My favourite is Xenon Profiteer, which seems to have flown under many people's radars. I love the mechanism of pumping your deck full of "air" every turn and having to siphon off all the rubbish leaving only Xenon cards in your hand. Would love to see a mini-expansion with a few more upgrade cards to throw in. I also have a soft spot for the much maligned Pixel Lincoln, as long as it has the Environments expansion, because that's when it finally delivers on the outright silly fun that the base game promises.
There's nothing rich in CoF, there are several complaints about its long term interest. I don't see how Friday can work multiplayer.. you could throw together two copies and draw 4 challenges where you choose together two that you have to beat together. But who would gain what card if you as a team win that challenge?
Same top 2 as me! I really enjoy Baseball Highlights 2045, Legendary Marvel, 100 Swords, Super Motherload, Helionox, Star Realms...which sucks because every deck builder has expansions. I would hate to total up how much I have spent on deckbuilders alone! Though I would be curious as to what percentage of my money spent on the collection was on deckbuilders.
I have to admit that even if I think other deckbuilders are cooler or more interesting, I always end up playing Dominion the most. Some of that is due to accessibility due to its relative pureness and ease of teaching, but some of that is also just how customizable it is (even with just a couple expansions) so I can tailor the set of cards for the group. I don't know if I'd say it's my favorite deckbuilder, but it's easily the one I have played, and will likely keep playing, the most.
amazing game, but there's very little deckbuilding in a given game. you only buy a few cards usually. so while technically it's a deckbuilder, if you watch the intro of the video i mentioned how i was focusing on games that do really cool and interesting stuff with deckbuilders :)
I love Mystic Vale, but I was surprised to see it here. I love the "card crafting" variation on deck building, and the push your luck element. But it has so little player interaction. Because your field stays in front of you, you can't even see each others' cards much... it feels more like solitaire than a shared game. And scoring is painful. Maybe because at the end, you have to go through your deck to score it, and then go through it again to deconstruct each card to put the advancements away. I still love it, but I'm always a little surprised when anyone else does. Thanks for the list! I know we'll be looking up others you mentioned. This put Dale of Merchants and Eminent Domain on my radar, and I'm eager to learn more about them and several others!
Twilight Garden really upped the player interaction quite a bit. Definitely recommend checking it out. Things like "give me a VP chip or take 2 minus VP chips" or "all players take minus VP chips for each -VP on their vales, or +VPs for every -VP on their advancements."
I was going to ask where games like Clank! and Tyrants of the Underdark were, and then I realized that if you take away the board elements of these games, the underlying deckbuilding is actually incredibly generic, so on a list of games that change the idea of how deckbuilders are made, I get leaving them off the list, regardless of how awesome they may be.
I'd put Aeon's End (base game reprint) as my #1. Mostly it's a great game because of smart game design with good interaction between players but the main ways it messes with the deck building formula are that you can have some imperfect knowledge of your deck before you draw, and your spells don't cast immediately (so it's almost like a programming game) I did strongly consider getting the legacy version, but apparently the box size is quite big and our storage size... isn't.
My pick for most innovative deckbuilder is Flip City. It has the same push-your-luck as Mystic Vale (and precedes it by 2 years) and also has double-sided cards and ways to put cards into your opponents' decks. It even has several different win conditions! I also played Arctic Scavengers again yesterday and it has some cool, weird stuff with bluffing.
Why don't more people love EmDo?! It's my favorite deck builder. Every time you make a choice to buy a card, you permanently change how you can interact with the game. That's what makes deck building so satisfying, and I've never experienced this as much as when I play EmDo.
i agree. i wonder if it might have something to do with the fact that the game is very overwhelming to a first time player, with the huge "look at all these technologies" infodump right at the start? this is helped a bit by the first expansion, becuase you feel like you've got a bit more direction and don't have to evaluate *everything* before you start making decisions...
!!SHADOWRUN CROSSFIRE!!: the only deck builder where buying for what you need RIGHT NOW is more important than engine-building for future turns. A deck builder where the card you bought goes straight into your hand. I’m surprised this wasn’t on your list @rahdo
every time I watch your video you make some rule mistakes. but that aside this was best deckbuilder list because it didnt have most mainstream shit? BUT I'm middle of watching and I have to say mageknight isnt deckbuilder? i think that because deckbuilding doesnt rule it it is good deckbuilder.
oh no i take my word back fuking dominion. if dominion is real first deckbuilder can you say that it ads something new to its own made genre? at least you didnt just slap it there and say here you have it dominion. still awesome video
I've collect over 50 deck building games. What I love the most: Super motherload Salmon run Shadowrun crossfire Dominian Thunderstone series Arctic Scavenger Valley of the King And my favourites: A few acres of snow series Core worlds Blood Bowl Team Manager Mage knight Arkham horror LCG
Have you played Miskatonic School for Girls? I would have expected it to be on this list; the fundamental idea of buying one good card for myself and one bad card for my opponent was an eye-opener for me.
I love scrolling through the comments and reading your replies to viewer comments! It's a shame how some RU-vidrs don't interact with their community. Thanks rahdo!
haven't played the former, considered the later but the neat stuff it does (out of order special power combo activation) is kind of marred by the presentation :(
someday i'm going to rank them all (but every time i sit down to do that, they annouce another one!) without doing that, it's hard for me to say because whenever we play, i just mix and match everything completely randomly :)
@@rahdo thanks for the reply :) I think that the consensus is that Dark City is essential to the base game experience as it ramps up the difficulty, and broadens the hero choice, and the 20 or so expansions really add to the diversity. I hear what you're saying though, it's not in the ground breaking category, as it copies mechanics popularized by other deck builders. Hope you're having a good holiday, love your videos :)
rahdo except make dinosaur word games like Scrabble redundant. Not many deck builders can claim that. I think they are important examples of modern games completely usurping their tired forebears.
The ability to use cards based on what you can spell takes out the whole "plays itself" feeling of many deck builders. I was so impressed at how they got it to work so smoothly. It really is a true deck builder and still a word game. Plus so much strategy.
DOMINION!? :( I would have given it an honorable mention for starting deck building but at this point, not top10 worthy. Sad that Clank! Isn't on the list :(
