In this video we discuss 10 of the Greatest Players to ever play the position of fly-half/first five-eight, taking into consideration longevity, peak ability, all round performance and trophies won
It doesn't say much about his rugby knowledge. Morne also gets a mention above Naas, Pollard, Oxlee, Osler, Piet Visagie, Honiball. Morne won even make the top five in SA rugby.
@rogerg.shannon3345 When Naas played, there were no super rugby or rugby championship. He played 179 games for the Bulls and scored 2511 points or an average of 14 points per game. He scored 312 test points in 28 games with the old points system and style, which had much lower scoring games. The man was a special. If it wasn't for isolation, he would have been one of the greats of all time. Like Doc Craven said, :" Give me Naas, and I will conquer the world." That from a WP man. Naas played 17 Currie Cups and won the Currie Cup 9 times out right and shared it twice with WP. That is 11 titles from 17. Percy Montgomery broke Naas Springbok points record, but it took him 50 test matches to do what Naas did in 28, and Naas did it under the old rules with much fewer points scored per game. Only a fool will leave Naas out. Naas won games almost by himself. Which other flyhalf has done that so often as he did? Naas was a freak.
I'm a Kiwi and missing Larkham easily owns a top spot, Spencer, or Mehrtens, or Fox well before Barrett who can't get a start, and South Africa had Morne Steyn who battles out and beat Carter on many an occasion.... I feel like you just did 10 great guys you could remember.
Fox was not that special to paraphrase Steve Hansen - he was always behind a Rolls Royce AB or Auckland pack - so had a lot of time for his kick game - Plus he had years to improve and craft his skills - Dan carter was good from the get go - There are no highlight reels of Fox's attacking flair , or his defending prowess - he won games of his in game line kicking and conversions - Dan Carter always worked to improve - his defending was the one with the most improvement . Truthly do you thing Fox would shine on a minor team ? - He had good passing ( see below ) Barrett was great in his peak years - still a better FB than his brother - both lack strategic skills - Last WC Barrett kicked away all attacking ball - seems never to learn - but he's not complete like DC - DC was in the top 10 for many of his skills - The best ever by far of going to the line and kicking through ( very rarely blocked kicks ) . BB has one other big flaw - ignoring the odd fancy pass - just basic passing skills - no better than an average flyhalf . That's why Mo'unga and Dmac need to be in ABs - as more crisp passing - the most vital skill in our time constrained modern game
@@nimblegoat Great points. BB was stellar in his peak years, where he played a quick link-up play, and then burned people with speed. There's plenty of highlight reel material with BB, unlike Fox, which is another point where I totally agree with you. Another flaw of BB is his unreliable penalty kicking. He can have a good game, and he can have a total stinker on the boot as well. DC slotted them like a clockwork, including some extremely challenging kick and outlandish techniques, which demonstrated his confidence. Spencer was an innovator, who deserves to be on that top 10 list above other players. Larkham is a glaring omission as well. I agree on the passing, and I'm warming up to the idea of Dmac at 10, he's been showing some high quality zippers this season. Top 10 without a single South African is absurd. You could make a solid case for Percy, Morne, or Handre. The latter two are habitual winners and notorious big game performers, who were absolutely instrumental in their team winning the ultimate trophies: Steyn a RWC, and two BIL series, Pollard a junior RWC, senior RWC, RWC bronze, and BIL tour trophy.
@@JTM1809 Yeah those Bokkies had great game control - The amazing thing about DC was his ability to work with anyone - Those Aussie Combos happened over many years - Simply annoys me Foster has squandered Mo'unga and Havili by playing them all wrong - ie giving them no space - and that silly dual playmaker crap - up there with Rest and rotation , super mensch ( 15% stronger than any other team ) , hit the man super plan- all this was entirely unnecessary by Henry - as we were the best team - TBF I've warmed to Henry as has got honest about his failings - Unlike Hansen who thinks his reign was just the greatest - which was on a down hill the moment Wayne Smith list - plus he had a super team 2015-2017- Henry swung hard other way from 2 number 11s to 2 number14s + 15 ( Not playing Howlett, Chris Jack and Aaron in that quarter was supreme arrogance ( Toeva was never a top tier 12-- just a skillful outside back )) - I thought Hansen was really good initially - middlepath , tweaking game half time etc - now think that was entirely Wayne Smith
Naas Botha was unbelievable. Have a look at his point scoring abilities. He even played for the Dallas Cowboys due to his amazing kicking abilities. When he stepped on a field the team he played against already had a deficit of 15 points!
Naas Botha would have been included if they could have found any footage of him actually playing rugby and not just kicking and avoiding being tackled.
@@rogerg.shannon3345 Negative Stuff like this because he most likely played your team into smithereens is the epitome of bias! At least try to be a bit objective and look at the stats...
So just to be clear here… Owen Farrell is on the list ahead of everyone you mentioned honourably? And some you missed like Henry Honibal, Joel Stransky, and Freddie Michalak… you must be part of the England selection team😂😂
It’s subjective, I’m guessing Farrell made the list because of his points tally, however if we remove him from the top 10 do you really think Stransky, Hannibal and Michalak are anywhere near the top 10..even top 20
No I dont believe Carter is the best by far, Wilkinson was an incredible flyhalve and if he was a NZer they would probably say he was as good as Carter.
@@dirkjordaan9044 DC is the best fly half by some distance. Guy had no flaw to his game at all, and was top or near top in every single aspect of the game. This is not taking anything from Wilkinson, who in my eyes is the clear #2 of all time. FTR, I'm not from NZ.
@@dirkjordaan9044….The 2005 BIL’s tour to NZ was the match up where we got see who was better, Carter or Wilkinson and it was Carter, by a clear margin. Wilkinson’s fuggin brilliant, absolute legend, both on and off the field but, Carter had him beat when they went head to head.
Best fly half ever was Naas Botha. South african greats use to say if you loose a match with Naas in your team you pick 14 other men. Many South african legends was out of international Rugby. Some of them was the best player we have ever seen before politics entered south africa. He was a kicking flyhalf. Killed you kicking and could drop from everywhere. He averaged propably 3- 6 drop goals in every match. A rughby genius.
After all these years politics still play a part in sport Naas Botha was and is the best flyhalf in the world And I don't want no arguments about this as we know with him in your team you already have 15 points on the board even before the game starts Thank you
Naas Botha, Barry John, Phil Bennett, Ollie Campbell, Rob Andrew? If Jonathan Davies & Andrew Mehrtens had not had honourable mentions (which is a travesty) they would be there too...
Well - easy unmentioned additions - and probably ahead of all, but the top two - Barry John, Phil Bennet, Grant Fox, Joel Stransky, Andrew Mehrtens Mehrtens Fox Lynagh Bennet Ella Porta Larkham Stransky Barry John Wilkinson Carter Ok that's 11!
Much better list... Glad Larkham is getting good shouts as he played a lot of fantastic rugby behind a weak pack... Id probably switch Jiffy in for Grant Fox and think Carlos Spencer deserves a mention
Nice that Larkham got an honorable mention but ridiculous that the likes of Jenkins and O’Gara made the top 10 and he didn’t. Matt Giteau should get a look in somewhere.
I agree, that Larkham should be on that list. I disagree with the dissing of Jenkins and O'Gara, both of whom were great players. Jenkins was the first player to score 1000 international points, and he played in an era with way fewer international matches on schedule per year. And contrary to the stereotypes, he could run with the ball and was an excellent distributor with a very precise pass, thus having a complete game. A lot of SH fans soiling on him here clearly have no clue about how good he was. O'Gara was a brilliant tactician, and he too could take a wee dash with the ball.
Great content, good writing and footage. You should get a better microphone and sound editing, though. And also, 2018 was Ireland's third Grand Slam. An Irishman should know that, fella! From a fellow Irishman. All in all, good stuff.
Thanks, I meant Ireland's first ever 6 nations Grand Slam as opposed to the 5 nations ones they've had in the past but I cut the script down a bit forgetting it made the statement inaccurate. I've got a better microphone that's used in more recent videos
Neil Jenkins was a good goal kicker granted but if you wanted a Welshman then Barry John would have been a better choice .Where is Grant Fox ,Andrew Mertens and Stephen Larkham. !
I presume you're not old enough to remember Barry John, Phil Bennett or Cliff Morgan from Wales or the incomparable Naas Botha from South Africa. Had SA not been banned from international competition then Botha would probably have been the highest test scorer of all time.
1 Dan Carter 2 Barry John 3 johnny wilkinson 4. Johnny Sexton 5.Jonathan Davies 6. Phil Bennet 7. Handre Pollard 8. Micheal Lynagh 9. Stephen Larkham 10. Richie Mo'unga 11. Mark Ella
Wilkinson was the greatest. That drop goal to win the World Cup with the wrong foot under that much pressure. Also watching him dictate a 13 man England side beat the All Blacks in New Zealand tipped it for me. Good tackler too for someone of his size
Nope to Wilkinson - I'd agree he's probably second, but Carters 29 test tries (and countless more where he shot through a gap and set up his outsides or insides) to Wilkinson's 7, and Carter being 352 points ahead on the all-time list seals it. I doubt anyone will ever get near Carter's test record of 1598 points and 1700+ more for the Crusaders - just like Wayne Gretzky's scoring records in the NHL - nobody will ever get close!
Shocked not to see Larkham here - and near the top. He was easily the best 10 in the first half of his career and only surpassed after Carter started. He's definitely better than Wilkinson who only had a handful of years at his best - as well as most others on this list. Lynagh shouldn't really be mentioned in a top 10.
I love these videos and the work you put into them. But, if you're goin to say the 'Greatest in Rugby History', you need to eliminate your recency bias. I get you may be young and therefore may not have historical rugby knowledge, but it might pay to do more research. The people I'll list below almost all deserve to be in the top 10, if not honorable mentions Naas Botha Barry John Jonathan Davies Phil Bennett Jack Kyle Grant Fox
Jenkins adjudged to be better than Bennet and Barry John. Jenkins best position was full back, where I would suggest he got most of his from at international level
What about Naas Botha? If you think O'Gara and Porta were drop-kicking geniuses, you haven't seen this guy. He had a brilliant tactical and kicking game and lots of speed to burn. And along with Dan Carter, there were also Andrew Mehrtens or Grant Fox you could have added instead of Beauden Barret
@@thesollys9540 Correct. Fox had almost no running game. A shame the ABs selectors valued his accuracy over that of Frano Botica's (not quite so high accuracy, but a great running game).
He showed two of them on this list. Wilkinson and Porta. Hernandez could do it, too. Fly half isn’t all about drop goals. That said, it’s a weird list- Neil Jenkins is NOT one of the best 10s of all time!
Its obviously hard to narrow things down, and even harder to compare players from different eras but I think a top 10 list of #10s without a South African in it has some big holes. I think I see how you landed on the players you did - but focusing on total points in an era when there are so many more tests is for mine the wrong way to look at things. And then you have things like pre 80s it was pretty common for All Blacks Fullbacks to do the goal kicking which would necessarily preclude some of our guys from consideration. I'm a kiwi but i'm pretty surprised Naas Botha didn't get a mention, and mentioning Lynagh without noting Grant Fox is a bit of an omission too.
Yes, I'm not sure even Neil Jenkins' mum would consider him to be the greatest Welsh fly half ever, even if he was a great goalkicker and therefore could also cover fullback (?!?) There's surely no one right way to do this, but stacking up the numbers in a way that leans heavily on penalty kicking misses out so much.
Agree about the South Africans, Handre Pollard stands out, so does Naas Botha, way back when, he was a brilliant stylist of a style of play, as was their fly half when South Africa won the world cup for the first time. Like Grant Fox or Johnny Wilkinson, brilliant practitioners of a limited but highly successful way of playing.
Was there ever a better side stepping fly half than Phil Bennet. Some great fly halves here, I’m happy with Dan “the Man” Carter at no 1. I’m neither from Wales nor NZ.
Stephan Larkham and Naas Botha should both be in your top 10. The fact you didn't even mention Botha speaks to your knowledge/credibility/bias. Botha/Carter vie for the GOAT. At least Hugo Porta and Mark Ella made your top 10. Along with Beauden, they'd be my top 5. The petulant, unsporting Farrell and O'Gara do not deserve to be anywhere near such a list. They're the antithesis of what rugby players should be.
Speaking of knowledge/credibility/bias, you just wrote there, that you wouldn't have Jonny Wilkinson in top 5. Wilkinson is clear cut #2 fly half of all time. It's DC at #1 with a healthy margin over #2 Wilkinson, then there's Mariana Trench, and then anyone else. I agree with you on Botha and Larkham, they should make the list, but Ella or Porta should be in HM at best. Farrell is controversial not so much on his skill, but on the fact he spent most of his international career playing at 12.
@@JTM1809Hey Sumo, Speaking of knowledge/credibility/bias, you just wrote there...? Yes, we all have our biases. You too. Of course you're welcome to your opinion. Even if you had to go hyperbolic to try and make it.😉But I'll stick with mine, if that's okay? 😉 It's understandable that these 3 players are not more widely appreciated. If Porta had played for one of the top tier nations they'd've made movies about him. Sadly for him, and all rugby lovers, playing for Argentina restricted his spotlight and international adulation, afforded stars of NZ, England etc. I also believe that had Ella played longer, he would've set many records and been more widely recognised. There's also no doubt that Botha was denied wider exposure because of South Africa's isolation. But he was a matchwinner of extraordinary ability. Wilkinson was a great player, no doubt about it. He also enjoyed unprecedented media recognition and promotion in his playing days, so will quite understandably be top of mind for many rugby fans. Both Ella and Porta were, in my opinion, far superior flyhalves to Jenkins, O'Gara, Sexton and Farrell, and with my biases, deserve way more than HM status. 🤓😉
Mark Ella was the greatest loss to international rugby. At 24 he captained Australia to a grand slam victory scoring a try in every test match . He then retired because he didn't see eye to eye with then coach Alan Jones while simply being unable to afford to continue play as an amateur. His performances against NZ in the late seventies and 80s woke NZ up to the forward dominated pedestrian style of back play it had adopted in the seventies. Dan Carter is quite rightfully the GOAT due to his all round game, career stats and longevity.
Greatest tragedy in Australian sports. If he couldn’t afford to play Union and didn’t like the coach. He’d have been the difference between the Balmain tigers being the greatest team to not win a premiership to being a great premiership team.
Yeah that Aussie backline were great to watch back then Mark Ella caused mayhem for the All Blacks. That Australian team were at the top of their game, awesome players
thank goodness.... naas couldn't tackle nor break a defence. the only thing he broke was his ribs when he tried to tackle More Du Plessis. He was certainly not anywhere near an all round flyhalf. Thankfully his brand of rubgy is extinct now.
I'd have Larkam at #2 on this list, so a big miss for me. Beauden Barrett is one of the most gifted rugby players I have ever seen. But he ain't in the top 10 flyhalves of all time, let alone at #3. Grant Fox wasn't one of the flashiest of players but was in control of one of the greatest teams to take the field in the late 80s. Nas Botha and Henry Honiball were a couple of Safa players I admired. Good list thou. Mark Ella isn't given enough credit as being one of the great 10s to ever play.
Sadly this is biased towards the more recent players as such, as per Stephen Larkin, it omits historical greats like Naas Boata, Mark Ella, Andrew Mertens, Phil Bennet, Bary John , to name but a few. A tad more research would make this more interesting
Ella is there. He absolutely shouldn't be, but that's a separate issue. Also, I would split this to pro era, and amateur era. I find it extremely hard to argue for any of the 1980's or older era players selection over today's above average fly half. Athletically, there's no comparison.
True I didn't finish watching and see Mark Ella, though I don't altogether agree about not being able to compare different eras, which we can and do across a lot of sports. Pele and Maradona, Donald Bradman, Jim Laker , training methods don't obscure talent over time. As far as rugby union goes, before Dan Carter, Grant Fox stood head and shoulders, being the on field brains off a nearly perfect , as far as results go, team that for a time and before professionalism was truly formidable. Similar many ways to O'Gara and Johnny Sexton.
As welshman we've had some outstanding 10's over the years. But when it comes to picking all timne greats i think dc is the first name on the list regardless of position.
Naas Botha is greatest Springbok no 10’of all time. He is also considered one of the top 5 Springboks ever in South Africa, a rugby genius. I rate Naas and Dan Carter as the best two no 10’s of all time with johny wilkenson a distant third.
Naas was great but I do think Johnny was better, if not better had more opportunity to look better, But yip my three Barry Johnn, Naas, Johnny. Don't think you can select a number. Too many different styles, game situations
Complete rubbish, naas botha, never in the top 10, let alone better than Jonny, naas, was a terrible general and could not tackle to save his life. Many in SA did not like or rate him. Plus there's the small item he was banned as part of a racist banned team, from international rugby.
You clearly don't watch much rugby from the southern hemisphere so I can understand your bias but for your guidance, take a look at the country names on the world cup trophy and you would assume rugby is only played in the southern hemisphere.
You missed Barry John, here. He didn't play for very long, but no-one played Rugby like Barry. When even the New Zealanders call you _The King,_ you know you're number one.
Mark Ella was just raw talent and a beautiful player to watch he oozed classand tho I'm a dedicated all black supporter, he was the one I loved watching play
Pollard is a wc winner yes, but in a good team, hes not in the top 10 tens of all time. I'm Irish and don't agree with Rog being in there. Longevity and points total shouldn't get you in. Jenkins also questionable on that basis.
Wow, pretty controversial video. First off, I hate mixing amateur and professional era rugby. Two completely different sports. Nothing against the stars of the past, but the professional era players would eat their counterparts from the 80's and below for lunch. Second, some glaring omissions (Larkham, not a signle South African, even though a good case could be made for many: Steyn, Pollard, Montgomery from the top of my head, Spencer), some people who imho shouldn't make the top 10 at all (Ella, Porta). Pollard and Montgomery not even making the HM is shocking. O'Gara and Jenkins are on the margins imho, but I don't mind their inclusion as much as I do Ella's and Porta's. Hard to argue against players who scored over 1000 international points. Again, I can't wrap my head around the fact, that the HMs include some rather obscure names, like Juan Martin Hernadez, but don't include an absolute maverick like Finn Russell, or a career winner like Handre Pollard, who won both junior and senior RWC, has an additional bronze from the RWC and his side was not winning those trophies without him.
Speaking as a South African, this is a "kak" video! South Africa has been one of the best nations playing rugby, having given every other nation playing this game a bloody nose, sooner or later, sometimes many times. Given the significance of the position of fly half one would imagine that at least one would make the Top Ten. Sorry, I get it now, your fly halves could be so very bad because the rest of your teams were so very good! Sharpen your pencil, Relentless Rugby!
Neil Jenkins in the top 10 greatest fly halves? Oh please. He was a kicker who could just about hold a place. He was even played at full back to keep him in the team. No Barry John? Makes it a pointless list really. I'm English and old enough to have seen John play. He was magical.
Disagree. Jenkins could run the ball, and he had an excellent pass. Not saying he was the best stepper, but "he was a kicker who could just about hold a place" is just simply not true. Also, comparing players across eras is absurd. Pro era players would eat their scrawny 80's and older era counterparts for lunch. Today's backs would physically dominate 1970's forwards.
Nothing in tbe rules book says goal kicking is the sole job of the Fly-Half. It should be considered separate when weighing up who is the best Fly-Halfs. Putting Neil Jenkins ahead of Stephen Larkham is a sick joke.
Barrett is a shet conversion kicker and hes too high on the list, not even NZ's 2nd best flyhalf, Merhts is better than him. Like others I would have Larkham and Barry John on the list.
Dan Carter was great and would even get the nod as inside centre too. The problem is that most of these players played behind absolute dominating packs. It is easy to break records when your team dominates. That is why someone like Barrett would not make the list for me as he is rubbish when he is under pressure, just like Spencer was. Porta played in a struggling team all his life and was a super star. I wonder what it would have looked like if he played behind a monster All Black of Springbok pack? He may have just broken all records as he was such a complete player. Some guys that I think could easily make the list, are Naas Botha, Barry John and Phil Bennett.
Beauden Barret played for the Hurricanes most of his career lol traditionally NZs weakest forward pack yet was always picked as AB incumbent. You never get picked as an AB 10 if you're rubbish. What's rubbish is your choice of first five eighths who couldn't tackle to save their lives, how is that not withstanding pressure?
@@michaelkonelio7452 Because he plays behind a massive pack. Only reason. Maybe this will solve it for you. In 2022 the All Black pack was less dominant. E=Why do you think Barrett lost his place to Maunga? Only because Maunga is much better under pressure. Barrett very much like King Carlos was. On the front foot they are extremely dangerous, so when the pack dominates, they really shine - and will get rewards. Once the pack struggles, their wheels come off. But we are digressing from my initial argument. We name great players because they play in great teams as the best in the world, only because they play in great teams. If they played for smaller countries, they would have disappeared - like many great players in small struggling countries. Take Rupeni Caucaunibuka (spelling?) He charged onto the scene after a world cup match where this extraordinary wing exploded onto the scene with a great try. After that he was contracted to play i Europe and we saw how good he is. Can you imagine how great he would have been behind an All Black pack?
@@hansielategan969 You're defeating your own point here. First off, every fly half plays worse behind a struggling pack. Some adjust their game better than others, but a pack struggling can't help the backs in any way. Look no further than 2015-2017 Melbourne Rebels. They had pretty much the entire Wallaby backline, but their forwards sucked, and they never got anywhere. It was fancy to watch, but no cigars at the end. Argentineans are notorious for their stupidly big forwards. Always have been, always will be. In the days of yore, Argentina could rely on their pack, and they were elite scrummagers before they were an overall elite team. It's only relatively recent (last decade or so) that their pack became less dominant.
