Top 10 Hardest JRPGs Ever Created: Part 2 

Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:29] - 10) Vay [1:29] - 9) Lagoon [2:27] - 8) Phantasy Star 2 [​3:24] - 7) Koudelka [4:18] - 6) Final Fantasy IV [5:19] - 5) Brainlord [6:15] - 4) Mother [7:11] - 3) Alundra [​8:07] - 2) Brandish [9:09] - 1) Hoshigami

I discovered that the reason the 3d FF IV version is so difficult was that the gameplay designers EXPECTED you to abuse the new augment system. So, my advice is to not hold back. Abuse the hell out of that augment system. Be cheesy and shameless about it. You won't get very far if you don't.

"What were they thinking?" channelling your inner AVGN I see :)

Lagoon, hard? You could never imagine how hard it was for me. I was 6 years old and could not understand english, so it took me hours to just enter the first cave. The monsters were horrifying and when i finally had the guts to attack them, i just died again and again. I figured out i had ran around without a weapon equipped. By the time i managed to get the sword in hand, i've had enough and quit while my sanity was partly intact.

I played the DS version of FF4 and I remember it being really fun, don't think I even realized it was more difficult then the original since it had been ages since I played it. It just reminded me that FF4 was probably my second favorite FF game since the characters were not just shells that could learn everything. So the battles were actually tailored with your characters in mind and had some actual strategy.

I really love koudleka 😩❤ the story & atmosphere was really great and being linked with SH made it even better! Also SH must get a HD collection 😭 i ask its creator every month on Twitter and i am happy he didn't block me yet xD

So, for seeing every ending in Hoshigami in the 2000's does that mean im a Badass Freakin' Overlord ?!

I had fun with the IV remake. I thought the increase in difficulty was refreshing. Its the best version imo

Funny Koudelka is one of my favorite games. Different strokes for different folks

For FF 4, I had a trick to take care of the grinding. As soon as you become a paladin with Cecil, kill off your other party members and have Cecil grind alone at the top of Mt. Ordeals until you are lv 40 or so. Paladin Cecil wipes the floor with the undead there and if he fights alone, you will get a ton of XP. Every party member you recruit from then on is around Cecil's level so you shouldn't have to grind again until the end of the game.

I remember seeing a thing for Mother in Nintendo Power as well. What I particularly remember is a picture of a fight against an angry semi.

I love the FFIV Complete Collection, but I wish it was more challenging. Beautiful aesthetic.

I remember seeing Hoshigami for the PS1 advertised in EGM and DESPERATELY wanting to play it because I had just finished FFT and the art style really appealed to me. Everything I've read about it since has made me thankful I never found a copy 🤦‍♀️

Some other hard RPGs Romancing Saga 2 - You don't level up, you earn the enemies experience so they level up. The bosses are ridiculous with attacks that can 1 or 2 shot any party member or inflict statuses on the whole party, you are only able to heal, revive or remove status effects one character at a time, so battles devolve into getting slammed, healing or removing status effects with every character, getting slammed again and repeating until 45 minutes later the boss runs out of MP or your whole party gets inflicted with status effects that take away control and you basically automatically lose. The game also has permadeath. You can new game+ and that returns the enemies back to level one while you keep the breadcrumbs the FFII leveling system gives you a chance to earn. (yes, if you meet the stat level up conditions, you just have a random chance to get the stats, not a guarantee it's entirely possible you could keep leveling up the stat and not see an increase.) This means to play the game you have to grind for hours when you first start, then NG+ and maybe you can outrun the enemy power creep and get in a few attacks on the bosses healing every other turn. We aren't done the game also has a generation mechanic that has an increasing, but random chance of occurring as you play. This may drastically reduce your children's stats from yours even if you are both the same class and sometimes it will also erase your magic levels. I spent 3 generations training water/healing magic to level 30+ and on generation 4 it randomly reverted back down to level 1 and I became soft locked without the ability to heal, so i rage quit. Avoid this game, it is the second worst RPG I've played. Legrand Legacy - I just started this one, but the early game is crazy. You have to sell item drops to make money and they don't sell for much. You don't have any healing magic for quite a while, so you are relying on items to heal and they are expensive. The first, tutorial area has the gimmick of slowly draining your health. Enemies also hit really hard. That being said a few areas in, you meet a lion in a colosseum who gives you repeatable challenge battles you can grind for money, experience and healing items, so you can spend a while there making sure you have healing items for later. I wouldn't necessarily discourage you from playing this one, just treat healing items like gold early on.

Koudelka hard as balls? Yes. Was the Idea to meld Survival Horror and RPGs a good idea that no one tried to replicate for some bizarre reason? Also yes.

The increased difficulty in DS FFiV is what made it great! It made me appreciate using buffs and de-buffs more often. As for Hoshigami, I picked it up recently and dammit I’m determined to get through it!

One thing Lagoon had tho was a kick ass soundtrack.

I thought the FFIV DS remake was great, I'm surprised you have such negative feelings towards it! I think I enjoyed the nostalgia of it so much, it helped me overlook its flaws. Definitely a tough game, but I loved it!

I have, for some reason, put off trying the 3D version of Final Fantasy IV for years and now I'm kinda glad I did. Also, Brandish got a 3D remake for PSP that fixes the jarring "shifting" problem by having the dungeon smoothly spin when you turn it. Also, unrelated, but Brandish has one of my favorite box arts for any SNES game

Don't know if you have done this yet but a couple suggestion lists, hardest 1st boss in JRPG's and hardest last boss as well. Great videos btw!

I remember playing Lagoon at my cousin's and it would crash constantly before we even got to the first boss, making us lose all progress. When we finally beat him without a crash we were so happy lol

Yeah, the IV DS remake was amazing, but man that game was hard as hell! And we don't talk about After Years... Edit: Oh! I didn't know you disliked the DS remake. Pfft.

Oh, I was surprised by the seeing Koudelka on that list. I personally played that one out of sheer curiosity and most of the time I actually enjoyed the battles, puzzles and story. I must admit though that I absolutely love the battle them "Waterfall" and that one helped of course to keep things entertaining. =3 Oh, I gotta play Alundra 1 and 2 at some point again. I liked them both, too.

my goodness that ff4 port was a torture. it was my intro to ff and jrpgs and i thought this was the difficulty standard for the genre. thankfully that isnt the case

Interesting choices! I remember seeing an ad for Vay in a game magazine as a child and thinking it looked cool. Interesting to see Brain Lord on this list. I have played just the opening and didn't realise it was so difficult. I also remember playing Phantasy Star II opening and the first dungeon was very confusing...

I'm surprised Breath of Fire 5 Dragon Quarter hasn't made one of these list.. has to be one of the hardest RPG's ever

I don't remember the FF4 remake being very difficult at all or needing to grind very much either, I really enjoyed it personally.

Looks like I made the right choice in picking up FF4 for the PSP. Couldn't complete the slog that was the after years though.

I'm currently playing through my first run ever of FF IV and I'm doing it on the DS remake. I didn't find it to be too grindy and the bosses, while having a lot of HP, were not so difficult to beat. But right now I feel like I'm gonna retract everything I just said. I'm stuck at the final dungeon with a mid 60s level team and I'm having a hard time to get behind the sixth floor. The monsters also doesn't give enough EXP to make the grind worth it.

I adore Koudelka, one of the most unique unknown gems on the playstation. I think the weapon durability was an attempt to place a resource scarcity pressure on the player like in other survival horror games of the time. I get so hyped when people talk about it, thanks David! Still waiting for a "top 10 tips to grow incredible pecs" video ;)

I'm trying to finally finish Phantasy Star 2 right now. I'm in full agreement with everything you said. I left this game for 4 years because I was so burnt out after getting that "marijuana leaf" or whatever it's called in Uzo. It's borderline impossible to play this game without treating it more like a guided tour using GameFaqs since it's so obtuse, labyrinthian, and relentlessly punishing of carelessness. That said, I love the concept of climatrol in Motvaia and the world in the game. The story is really fun too, although it's still incredibly suspect to me that Rolf calls Nei his "sister" when she dresses like that and hangs around only him constantly after he "adopted" her..........

So Phantasy Star 2 Got in 2 different tops 10 of hard games, on two different channels, for the exact Same reason ( the dungeon stuff I mean), with the same OST in the Background, on the same day.... this coincidence is incredible :v

Your videos are so informative!

I feel so recognized by you putting Brainlord on here, thanks David.

Hey David nice upload. Looking forward to your next LP series. I have my fingers crossed for Dragon Quest V or Dragon Quest 8. I also seen you mention Fell Seal. Either way, I'm excited to see whatever you play next!

I remember reading somewhere that the original FFIV SNES release in the US was dumbed down from its original difficulty, and the DS remake is more true to its roots. It didn’t seem THAT much harder to me, but I played the SNES version when I was 6, so it had been a while. And holy shit Lagoon was so stupidly hard

A big shoutout to the ffiv remake, It came out about the time i was getting into SMT games so the extra difficulty was actually a welcome change.

I agree with every game with the exception of Vay. I absolutely love the cuts cutscenes and animation. For me I didn't have to grind anymore than I normally do in any typical rpg.

if the disorienting turning is your biggest gripe with brandish the game actually got a remake call brandish the dark revenant which has an actual animation for turning, it turns out to be a pretty decent grid based dungeon crawler at that point. also nice list mate there was even a game I haven't heard of in there I look forward to looking at the other ones you've put out

I'm surprised that someone's talking about Koudelka that seams like such a forgoten game wich it's such a shame since it has a great story

I haven't played most of these games, because I took a break from consoles from somewhere after Ocarina of Time to about mid 2017 and PS4 pro. It way tough at times (once you get to the moon with the sorceress enemies) but I didn't think so many people would think that hard. I always found the original SNes version the hardest, but it's also been quite a while since I played it the last time, so it might be a childhood thing.

Please make a part 3. I’ll help you out with a game to add to the next top 10. Ephemeral Fantasia for the PS2.

Final Fantasy 4 DS was the first FF game I have ever completed... and man I had no idea this was meant to be the harder games.

I was typing a comment about Phantasy Star II's packed-in dungeon maps when you mentioned it. The game is so much more pleasant (and makes so much more sense) when you've got them all laid out in front of you.

Heya david! On Cold Steel 3, how were you able to get the footage for the final dungeon and boss?? I tried both PS4 and computer but it says it’s blocked scenes

Woho! Alundra hit the list!!! The puzzles are so god damn Hard!!! i was stuck in Lars crypt for 1 year before fighting the boss lol.

Lmao I played Brandish for the first time this weekend and thought I was teleporting to a new area each time I turned or the rom was glitched. I was so confused. I would see this in the video store as a kid and always loved the box art. Glad I listened to my instincts when looking at the back of the box.

Just finished Alundra last week on the vita for the 4th time in my life I think. Some puzzles are really a hot mess but the overall gameplay and story is good enough.

Final Fantasy 4's DS Port also removed all the bonus dungeons and the option to change party members that were in other ports of the game

I liked Koudelka a lot. I also enjoyed Hoshigami on DS. Glad to see they both get some recognition.

Lagoon is the epic tale of one man attempting to conquer the forces of evil armed only with a butter knife. A dull butter knife.

I've played and won some hard RPGs, Japanese included - also Phantasy Star II, one of my fave. But the hardest RPG I remember grinding on was the Might & Magic for NES. Holy!

Lagoon and Phantasy Star 2 were the big games I didn't know how weren't in your first list. Lagoon is so clunky, and even if you get to the final boss, you can't kill it if you don't have a weapon the game never tells you about. Phantasy Star 2, the dungeons like you said. Also, there being no indication that you have party members waiting for you at your house. Now I love Phantasy Star 2, and I enjoy Lagoon, but they are brutal.

Alundra was one of the first games I got for my PlayStation and it had some hair pulling moments and even got stuck at one time due to not being able to figure out some puzzles. Went back to it a few years after that starting over and was able to beat it. What stinks about the game is that you can miss items/weapons if you're not careful. First time playing I missed the wind tome which if you miss you can never get back..

Hi David, would you consider a let's play of Monster Hunter Stories 1? it's an jrpg with turn based combat, and the 2nd part is going to be released for switch the next year.

if you ever run out of ideas for these videos; i'd love to see some top10 music lists. like best battle-, dungeon-, overworld-, character-themes etc 🙂🎶

Koudelka still holds a special place in my heart ❤️

Mother was my second Rpg I ever played back in summer 2019 lol

Lagoon was actually really good. I encourage you to go back to it, the end is worth the pain. It was super hard, I'll admit. I did beat it back when I was 12 or so (I'm 35 now), but omg...it was a challenge. Also, look into Dark Wizard for the Sega CD. GG

8:40 Nice AVGN catch phrase thrown in there. ;)

Alundra! So true ! The most difficult and frustrating. But you just can’t stop. Can’t remember is it’s on your first but SAGA FRONTIER on Ps1.

Another great list, I’ve played 7 of these games and can easily agree with wanting to give up on them, absolutely insane levels of difficulty. But I have to stand up for “Mother”. I played Earthbound and loved the quirkinesses of the game, and the silly enemies, and a great story. Mother, as I remember, was from the same developer, but more of a “first try” into making video games. Maybe I was too forgiving, but it had the same silly enemies and crazy storyline that Earthbound had, so I had fun with it.

I think Hoshigami is the only JRPG I quit mostly due to difficulty. Comforted by seeing this on the list haha.

Alundra is one of the best action rpgs of all time. The puzzles are incredible. You must have suffered playing Crosscode if you don't like puzzles

Hey, I enjoyed the difficulty of Final Fantasy IV DS, but then it's my favorite Final Fantasy (as it was my first), and I played through the Japanese "Hard Type" release loads of times. I honestly don't remember it being hard, I didn't learn that it had a reputation for difficulty I'd till I'd went through NG+2 to max out everyone.

I really enjoyed the PSP remake of Brandish, even if the dungeon design was ball-busting. I really need to play the PC-98 fan translation of Brandish 2 some day.

The thing with Lagoon is that it's a port of an X68k game that's basically a Ys clone, including bump combat. Why they added an attack button but didn't change anything else about the attack mechanics to compensate is a question for the ages. There is a translation patch for the original if you're ever interested in seeing how it was intended to be played. I'm a little surprised by the number of commenters who seem to know about FFIV Easy Type, but seem to think the DS version is just the original in 3D. It's not. I don't think it's THAT hard, but it's certainly a fair bit more obnoxious than the SFC original or the PSP graphical remake.

First i love ur videos im getting into jrpgs recently and ur rly helping! And secend do anyone knows that if its safe to play roms via emulation in Europa?

Saga Frontier 2 - the last chapter required two weeks of real-time mindless grinding to even stand a chance agains the final baddie...

Every time I try to play Koudelka, I die in the beginning from the three-headed zombie thing hanging off the ceiling and quit.

*Thank you* for mentioning the number 3 pick. That was the first game I rage quit because the tedious puzzles. The platforming was hard enough, but the puzzles required zero errors. As much as I liked the gameplay and story progression in that game, the puzzles killed it for me.

FFIV is my favourite RPG, and one of my favourite games of all times but one playthrough of the DS version was enough for me. I don't mind grinding in JRPGs, but when the originals didn't require much of it, and had quicker battles it's not something I enjoy.

David, I also nominate Ninten from EarthBound Beginnings as one of the most powerful RPG characters. Why? Simple. Ninten's only real weaknesses are being locked to physical damage, not learning offensive PSI, & learning his support PSI with reasonable gaps to keep him from being overpowered (although it would even the odds in EB0). Aside from those (& the annoying habit of the game not giving your characters weapons that deserve to be decent quality & accessible), Ninten is just NEVER not putting in serious work throughout the entirety of the game. Ninten has the 2nd highest HP, attack, defense, & speed growths with reasonable magic stats & PP growth. He learns the most support PSI & isn't locked into guarding against powerful foes due to his high physical stats. 4th-D Slip is one of the most useful PSI techniques alongside teleport + lifeup/healing + buff PSI. Ask yourself this question. Could you imagine playing the game without Ninten?

FFIV DS restored the JP difficulty level. It was talked about quite a bit upon its release in articles and online. When IV was coming to the west Square thought it would be too hard for the US market and dumbed it down to a more forgiving difficulty level. I was excited for a harder version fo IV and never thought the DS version was all that bad.

I had to watch that Brandish gameplay twice before I realised it was meant to be the view rotating , what were they thinking?

Wow, my dyslexia. I remember when Hoshigami came out, and for this whole time I thought the subtitle was *Running* Blue Earth.

To elaborate on EarthBound Beginnings' difficulty, It's one of the *WORST* cases of schizophrenic difficulty in RPGs & has some truly baffling design choices. The game has *numerous* difficulty spikes through the journey, as early as going to the second 'dungeon' (the zoo without the psi beam Gamma proof Franklin badge). Only 8 inventory slots per character, averaging to about 5 with weapons/armor/accessories & there's only 3 characters your party can have at max!. A *massive* overworld (actually bigger than Earth Bound). Some of the most absurdly strong common enemies in the MOTHER series statistically. & a lack of overworld teleportation until you're 75% done with the game. Throw in absurdly high encounter rates, your healer/pis-damage dealer being physically weak & slow, & Liod being physically weak & slow. It leads to many complications against high defense enemies. Also managing your PP is essential here. You also only get about 8 Psi-Stones to regenerate your PP outside of sleeping. To the game's credit, Magicant is the perfect grinding place. It has some of the best equipment & encourages the grind for Magic Coins, H20 Pendants (halves fire-damage, making them very useful against enemies that blow up) & Boomerangs (the second strongest weapon for Liod, Ana, & Ninten).

I was waiting if SaGa Frontier 2 will be added but nope. Playing that game without a guide is just a nightmare and the solo battles are just torture.

I love BrainLord. I didn’t think it was that hard. Lots of fun! Alundra, good heavens what a tough game. Never finished it.

Nice to see an RPG review calling out Phantasy Star 2. That series peaked at playable and that wasn't the beloved part 2. It was part 4.

Oh man, I wasted so much time on Brain Lord as a kid. I loved the idea of it and naming your little dudes (were they fairies? I cant remember) but I don't think I ever made it past the first dungeon.

I got Hoshigami as a teen, and I was super excited because I thought "yay, more FFT!" Which was my favorite game at the time, and still is high in my list. I returned it the next day...

Phantasy Star II: encountered 3 "Blaster" enemies. Ambushed. All 3 use a "hit all" laser attack and crit. Game Over (even if over-leveled at max HP). I'll never forget that! I did finally replay and beat it in 2018 but I didn't enjoy most of it and it was purely just to defeat something from my childhood I could never do back then :)

I'm glad i wasn't the only one to know that lagoon, alundra, (and it's sequel don't ask.), and brandish were hard. (Oh and i've played Hoshigami it's pretty hard but the DS version of Hoshigami is much more tolerable with a difficulty setting with hard as the same as the PS version. Though i really hate the magic system so much.

I received FFIV DS as a birthday gift with my DSlite. I... I remember really enjoying it. (Have a vague memory of getting bored/frustrated on the moon tho) 🤭😳

Hey david, I saw some of your videos regarding strategy JRPGS, and never once did you mention the Langrisser series. Did you ever play it? It is mostly Japan exclusive, but there are some fan translations out there. Langrisser 1 was localized here known as Warsong for the Sega Genesis Langrisser 2, there is a fan translation for both the original Sega Genesis, and for the Super Nintendo port, known as Der Langrisser with multiple story lines and endings (Definitely play this one) Langrisser 4, there is a fan translation for the Playstation port, known as Langrisser Final Edition containing both Langrisser 4 and 5 (Only 4 was translated though) It is probably the best strategy JRPG series I have ever played.

I love Brainlord. It's very challenging but I find it fun.

I remember the original final fantasy 4 for snes being wickedly hard especially once you got to the moon. It seemed like every character in that portion of the game could one shot you or had instant death. I felt the difficulty in the remake was on par with original

Never beat any of these games yet.

I had Lagoon and Brain Lord growing up and never beat them. I did get through Alundra though.

Really enjoyed this since I suffered through most of this list (and the first 10 from your other video)! Thanks for calling out some super unknown as well as better known titles for their bullshit. However, as a huge Vay fan and Sega child, I wonder when you attempted the game? The game has voice acting and repeatedly says the title. It’s how the 5 of us that actually played Vay identify each other: we are the only ones that pronounce it correctly. The “-ay” has the same sound as the letter i.

Hm, I quite like the Kodelka aesthetics there, never played it though.

I felt heartbroken by the FF4 port. The original was my first JRPG and I had hopes like you. What the hell were they thinking? I remember back before emulators got destroyed by the console company greed, I tried Brainlord and Lagoon....to say I was disappointed and frustrated is an understatement. I remember renting Hoshigami when I was in middle school because it looked cool, but holy hell. I still hold that Paladin's Quest, for the unfamiliar gamer, is the most challenging game I've invested any amount of time into. HP as MP? Obscene encounter rates of up to 24 enemies? Loose targeting? Limited healing resources between towns? Can't change equipment on guest characters? Multiple difficulty spikes without warning? Oh yeah...that's how Enix used to treat us all....and we kept giving them money. No wonder we all turned out this way!

Alundra is an awesome game. It's The Legend of Zelda meets A Nightmare on Elm Street.

I Like the difficulty on Final Fantasy 4 (3D) DS/Mobile, Mobile version has Hard mode. I always find FF4 (SuperNES, PS1, GBA, PSP) on the easy side, with a few difficulty spikes if un-prepared (in me opinion) and The Final area was intense , the way it should be lol.

I didnt think anyone remembered Hoshigami. I loved tactics as a kid and got really hyped for that game only to be left hopeless. that game kicked by butt. FF4 ds I believe used the psx version difficulty. The psx version was balanced as the hard mode for the original japanesse version and the SNES English version was balanced as easy mode which is why the difficulty is so out of whack.

Hoshigami is one of the only games I've ever given up on due to difficulty. I think it was the second fight in the game. Since you're mainly talking about games that are unfairly hard due to unrefined mechanics, Final Fantasy Legend/SaGa. Insane encounter rate, large and powerful enemy groups in every encounter, long, samey dungeons, imbalanced classes, and if a character dies three times they're gone forever.

I know Parasite Eve was a good ps1 horror/rpg but it is a bit on the easy side once you get into the weapon customization.

This made me very glad that I played the easier Steam version of FF4 3D instead of the DS one. I loved it on Steam! Weird because I thought FF3 was great on the DS.

Koudelka as the first horror-rpg in the west?! I'm not sure but was it really released before Parasite Eve? Regardless, Koudelka is a hard game I've never finished. Will there be a part 3? End of Eternity (or Resonance of Fate as it's called in the west) definitely deserves a place in this list.