What moment shocked YOU the most? Let us know below, and be sure to also check out our video of the Top 10 Behind the Scenes Secrets About You: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tfQdV1BskaM.html
Joe framing the murder on nadia was probably the most unexpected twist of all the twists during s4 I think his darker self being in full control is 100% prevalent.
That terrified me, because I think for the first time, we as the audience truly witnessed just how disconnected from reality Joe really is. We’ve always known that he was crazy but at least he was based in some form of reality. And then there were still plot points that made us root for him. This time, the writers went out of their way to remind us that Joe is indeed a villain and that, along with how well Penn plays Joe, is what shocked me the most
I was not shocked that Kate's dad got killed, I was shocked that Joe was dissociating and had no idea he had done all that stuff. I was shocked that he killed Nadia's boyfriend...but her being scapegoated was too cold.
Technically Joe more anti villain by end of this season Anti villain description is: "has no morals, no empathy, and nothing but his own interests in mind" own interests in ultimately, saving himself regardless of whoever his fixated on
Only if Nadia mind her own business. Illegally getting into Joe’s apartment and invading his privacy, she is no better than Joe himself!! She is as delusional as Joe is!! But not as smart as Joe to escape . Deserves no sympathy whatsoever
The "You" in season 4 is actually the real life Rhys. The biggest twist of the season isn't the dissociative disorder. Its that Joe is capable of obsessing over MEN too. Rhys represents the brother he never got to know growing up. Similar backgrounds and similar interests.
While Rhys being in Joes mind may be the most important twist in the season I argue that it’s hardly shocking since almost everyone had the same theory after part 1. For me the biggest twist (and best storyline of the season) was Marienne in the cage. I thought that because of lazy writing they were trying to get rid of her in the 1st ep, but I was pleasantly surprised
I'm surprised some people are surprised, the theory was everywhere, everyone figured it out. I thought he killed Marianne and that's what started his dissociation
@@radhiadeedou8286 for sure. He’s mostly killed to protect in the past. But with Nadia, she would have seen reason. He could have just reasoned with her and the guy. It was bloody brutal to frame her
@@radhiadeedou8286 i mean tbh they were setting up a redemption arc at the start of season 4 for him it’s not that weird to kinda root for him but after the whole plot twist at the start of part 2 where we find out he was the one who kidnapped marianne and what happened to nadia at the end it’s impossible to see any good in him anymore.
Honestly Lady Phoebe getting away from the fame was surprising like I really thought Joe or Kate was going to kill her because she was going to start to look into Adam death. But she was done and out of there 😂😂😂😂
Man do you blame Lady Phoebe! Lol Truth is, the only thing that keeps her safe is that she’s not an obsession of Joe’s and she’s Kate’s really good friend. I still want to know what Joe said to her.
@@DaintyAbby tbh I think she was the smartest one there, but knew she would rather live by her heart than her head. Some of the things she said were very on the nose. Shes probably my favourite character thus far apart from those sisters in LA
As bad as I felt for Nadia. Her boyfriend wouldn't have died if she had dropped her case against Joe once Marianne was free instead of trying to bring Joe to justice. 🤦🏾♀️
Rhys is the first man Joe has ever obsessed over. He even took his sweaty gym rag and put it in his box (and Nadia hinted at some more intimate things too). I never thought Joe could ever obsess over a man. But I guess he found Rhys' story so similar to his and Rhys turned out a much greater man, a man that he aspired to be but never could be.
Someone somewhere made the call that Joe was, indeed, disassociating. I went into it making that guess as well, thinking that it was completely predictable, but the DELIVERY. The DIRECTING. THE FREAKING ACTING. It was all brilliant!!! Definitely worth sitting through that first part to get to! SO good!!!
Not just someone, A LOT of people predicted it, there were videos and comments everywhere. Usually I hate spoilers but the delivered it really well as you said so it was still very enjoyable
I enjoyed the finale alot. I loved how it ended with Joe framing Nadia, and embracing his evil side, just being honest! ( obviously I felt bad for nadia)
While part 1 wasn’t the most exciting. Part 2 truly captured the essence of this sick thriller and thematically its perfect because it’s the show finally forcing us to see him as a pure villain and not some twisted anti hero.
It’s literally 3:19 in the morning, I have to be at work at 8, but I can’t sleep because I just binge watched this show and I’m PISSED at what Joe did to poor Nadia 😫😫
There were SO many signs that Rhys was never talking to Joe. I kept waiting for the reveal, because it became more and more obvious over time, especially when he kept showing up in Joe’s apartment. The absolute most shocking part was when he framed Nadia. Joe has always been a mother hen to the young people in every season so far. Paco, Ellie and Delilah, and Theo… Theo slept with his wife, and he still helped save his life. But when he handed Nadia the knife, I literally gasped out loud. That’s not his MO at all. I thought he would try to protect her. Ellie knows what he’s done, and he didn’t frame her, he’s still sending her money. (According to the writer. It hasn’t been mentioned in the show, but it’s canon that he’s still sending Ellie money) I know they didn’t want to repeat the same things, but I didn’t expect that turn.
I was thinking about how he didn't frame Ellie as well. Then I remembered that it was actually Love who wanted to frame her, and how horrorstruck Joe was that Love would even consider that.
About Theo: sure, joe had motives to kill him because the affair (& cant remember if joe knew theo could expose him). However, Theo’s almost murder was Love’s doing not Joe’s. Perhaps in a way, Joe understood falling in “love” for Love & finding out her dark side. Maybe Joe wanted to save Theo bc of this. Another reason might be to protect Theo from Love like he did with Ellie. Joe thinks Love is the “real” homicidal psycho. Joe kills “out of protection” well used to. Love kills impulsively & has the power/privilege to wipe away anything.
@@jenlindley7780 Delilah is more akin to Karen Minty. Except for the cage. She was a brief fling to distract him from “you”. Ellie was the kid that season.
Nine times out of ten, if a certain character is only ever seen interacting with the protagonist, chances are that they're either a ghost, or a figment of their imagination. That being said, I was still shocked when it transpired that Joe had never actually met Rhys before he really did.
when joe walked in and saw kate holding the knife, they really had me there. thought we we're in another love situation. the plot twist w joe's dissociation was really good, but i feel like kate being the killer was smth that would've REALLY knocked me off my feet
kate being the killer would've been too predictable and similar to love quinn, idk personally I like her character the way it is. Although I did find it weird how she easily accepted joe even after hearing from him about all the murders hes responsible for
That was the one thing that surprised me and I was happy about it. I love a twist I didn’t see. But still it’s bothering me how Joe was on to Nadia at the end. By what we saw he had no clue she was even suspecting him. Unless he caught her on the same camera that he recorded himself on. Idk.
@@jessinthecomments I mean, it was hinted a few times as to how he was onto her. I think in the end it was the camera in the room bc we never saw him take it out. She was also acting weird and suspcious
@@jessinthecomments She did not have a great poker face. It was obvious she grew scared of Joe. He planned to pin everything on her and Eddie when she told Joe she had a boyfriend to throw him off.
The whole 2nd part of you was all pretty shocking! I just wish you had mentioned more about Becks cameo when you talked about Loves. Seeing them both again was pretty awesome.
I think the most surprising thing to me (aside from the obvious already mentioned) it's Kate just accepting everything Joe did and us not knowing how much he truly told her, does she REALLY know how many people has he killed? ( including her father) It's weird to me that she went just like "Ok I'll cover it up for you, I got u I got u".. She never gave me that impression If that makes any sense
I get that but also earlier on when Gemma was killed she’s way less freaked out than I felt like a normal person would be about having to hide/get rid of a dead body of a “friend”
Honourable mention should go to Marienne and Nadia deciding to NOT call the cops. Number 2 and 1 should be reversed. The moment Rys didn’t recognize Joe at his house, you knew Joe had DID. Nadia being burned for doing the right thing though I didn’t see coming. I thought she might be killed, but this fate seems worse…for now.
I agree. Nadia reminded me so much of Ellie and Paco, both of whom Joe was protective of. Seeing him so coldly frame Nadia for two murders was like seeing him do something terrible to them.
My heart broke for Nadia. That was pure evil of Joe. But what he doesn’t know is that Marienne is still alive and she might help Nadia get released from prison in return since Nadia helped her escape the cage.
Predictions for Season 5: - Joe will meet his brother and his mother will be part of the story - There will be at least one final girl he becomes obsessed with - May be a stretch, but since he now has Tom’s resources, Joe will have his own personal hitman - also may be a stretch, but Marienne and Ellie collaborate to take Joe down, possibly with Dr. Nicky as well - Joe goes down for all the murders and the last couple of episodes is of him on the run, still trying to be with the new girl he’s obsessed with. He gets caught and ends up in an asylum
What Joe did to Nadia was a STRONG example of him now completely associating with the personality he splited and made Rhys the face of. He accepted his dark side once he got an assurance that he had someone to share it with aka Kate just like he did with Love. Love was him in every way , Kate has done bad things but somehow justifies it by creating this illusion that she had no choice when she decided to build the pipeline and kill several children. So she is more likeable cause she runs away from her darkest parts just like Joe does. Love on the other accepted it all and wasn't shy to be truly her evil self, which made Joe confront his darkest, evil side he is trying to disassociate and run away from.
Poor Phoebe, she's the only likable character in this season, next to Marianne, yet she was put through an emotional roller-coaster. I hope that things eventually get better for her. Same for Marianne, she deserves happiness.
Same goes for rhys.. He didn't deserve to die man.. He already had a difficult past.. Finally he was going to become the mayor.. And then he died, for no reason. 😢
How clever! They foreshadowed that Joe locked Marienne in the cage with the glass banister behind him as he is reading the paper in the train station! Coincidence or not, I like the subtle hint at what's actually going on!
Like many others I saw the Rhys twist coming and it took a bit long to unfold. Everything that happened after that though: very exciting and nerve wrecking. Felt so bad for Nadia. And the twist from suicide (very intense scene) to him at the end smiling and embracing being a killer with power. Damn. Also loved the foreshadowing of what Joes is doing with Rhys with Dawn and all the parallels with different things in general.
By pure accident, I off-handedly said to my girlfriend that Joe was chasing himself while trying to discover who the Eat The Rich Killer was while three episodes into Part 1. I told her that the three options were Roald because he was obvious but still possibly a red herring, Rhys because he was not an obvious candidate but the show was trying to put him in the spotlight but at the same time trying to be coy about it. And then was just like given Joe's traumas and damaged mental state it could be a split personality that he is dissassociated from, although I did admit to her that it was pretty unlikely. So when Nadia found the key hidden in a copy of The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde (very on the nose) you can imagine how surprised we were to find out that I turned out to be right in the end
No fr I thought the same. And it wasn’t like she was there to photograph Phoebe and Joe somehow got in the way of the shot. There were times where she was just taking photos of Joe. It was weird
@@sophie4sythshe knows his identity as Joe Goldberg from Season 4 she was one of the reporters on Natalie's murder . She wanted to protect Phoebe from Joe
I’m still really really curious as to what Kate did that make her not freak out after joe confessed to her about his killings etc??? And I feel Kate actually loves joe for who he is and wants the real him. I’m still hoping to find out what happens with his mom and that boy she was with in the flashbacks as well.
Everyone feels bad for Nadia but not her boyfriend? She didn't have to go to his place again. The finale was great. Thank goodness Phoebe got a good ending and Adam got what he deserved. Joe definitely is full evil now (oddly people missed that) . Also Marienne in the cage was the biggest twist...whole time I thought she was buried or on that train. Her character did stupid things but that not calling the police scene had to be the dumbest for her and Nadia. I rooted for Joe because he was UNAWARE of what he did for most of the season (proven by his reaction when he slowly grasp the events or remembers) and the fact that once he did, (after Tom of course), he tried to off himself. Can't blame him for being brought back lol. In case you missed it, the doc said he died but was brought back (hinting the good in him was gone and his dark side completely intact, also shown with Rhy in his reflection). S5 I predict is the end, Nadia and Marienne will play a huge part but all bets are off for this FULL EVIL Joe. Still think Kate has a bigger part that hasn't been shown yet.
The parallel between Joe refusing to frame ellie in season 2, to framing another younger person, Nadia, This season just shows how far Joe has fallen. A small dark part of me loves the biased narrative and how it makes you want to see him get away from it especially when he was being so heroic trying to stop the eat the rich killer, but this season just shows his fall to truly never going back. He’s pure evil, the narrative is broken for us as an audience, and I was really rooting for his downfall after the Marieanne episode where we broke away from our biased narrator
The most disturbing moment in this season was how Joe disposed of Malcolm’s body in the sawmill, and it even showed the gory details to the point where Joe threw up in a sink. The detail that went into showing the complete dismemberment. I am queasy just watching that moment.
I have a theory that the writers dont know YET if Love is actually dead, and they're planning to decide this on s5. Because if you guys notice, every victim said "i am dead", and Love didnt. Joe used to hallucinate with Candace too and she wasnt dead, and honestly Love not saying "i am dead" could also prove and Joe himself doesnt know for SURE that Love is really dead. ALSO, No one knew where Candace's body was but Love. Between the time Joe left the house and the firemans arrive, I believe someone couldve traded the bodies. I dont like to think that Love was stupid enough do live in the same house with a murderer, grow a poisonus plant and not give a damn about defending herself from it, knowing that Joe could use it against her. No to give hope or anything, but it's really strange that everyone said out loud they were dead and Love didnt,so yeah i really think the writers are still deciding on it. The only thing i hope is to see Jenna Ortega coming back all grown up to kick Joe's ass, because she knows he's a murderer and she's a GenZ SHE'S TOTALLY WATCHING ALL THE NEWS ABOUT JOE AROUND THE WORLD!!!!!!!! PS: When Joe jumps of the bridge, I believe he actually died there, and Rhys took place. When he frames Nadia for everything, Joes talking differently, and acting differently. So I believe that's Rhys. The Joe we knew, the charismatic, thoughtful, well-read guy is dead and now there's only the killer.
I like your ending assessment and I think I agree. It was so odd of him to pin it on Nadia because he’s been known to help the “child” of the season time and time again with Paco, Ellie, Theo but now not Nadia.
@@sophie4syth YESS!!!!! And he said "im excited to see what you do next" SHE'S GONNA COME BACK!!! And I bet she'll be involved in putting him on jail or something! Joe framing Nadia was one of the reasons that made me believe that Joe's gone and the "rhys" personality is what was left!!! Joe would never do that, specially because he liked Nadia, just like you said with all of the young people that came before!
Another thing that Joe teaches us is that having a hero complex will come back to bite you in the ass. Both he and Nadia tried to be heroes in their own way instead of doing the right and or smart thing. For Joe, it's thinking that he can save his "Yous" from the horrible stuff in their lives when it makes them and himself even worse. For Nadia, it was not calling the cops as soon as Marianne was safe and instead wanting to be the hero that took him down, giving him enough time to put together a plan and frame her. It's a matter of pride and principle.
It ease-fully hit me in the most whammy type way when it was finally revealed that Rhys was all just imagination - I had to pause and recount the entire show for a while before I moved forward from that point
Is was 50:50 on the Rhys thing before the reveal. With the Apartment scenes, he said he could pick locks, so I just figured he kept breaking in to torment him 😂
Yeah right.. She really thought she'd outsmart a literal serial killer just by reading some murder mysteries. And marienne and nadia not calling the police was the dumbest.. I guess the show writers didn't want that.. Cuz it would be over for Joe then.
It's actually smart how the writers got us. Use love as a Villain. Make us believe Joe has changed. Then slap us and remind us that this man was the Villain we kown since season one. Nothings changed but his capability and smarts.
idc what y’all say nadia deserved what happened to her. no way she’d think she wouldn’t get caught AFTER KNOWING how dangerous and calculated joe is. she should’ve went on to living her life right after saving marienne
What's shocking is that daddy didn't kill Joe. He could've hired someone to dispatch Rhys and should've had joe removed from Kate's life. That seemed like an unnecessary risk when dealing with a man suspected of murders.
it made sense the season broken up into two parts. it is like two different series. after watching the first part, my wife gave up on the show. she didnt like how they turned creepy joe goldberg into a hero. i watched part two first. then rewatched it with my wife. she came right back on board.
Tbh, I kinda feel bad for Joe. Don’t get me wrong his final antics at the end of the season were awful and he def is a terrible and batshit insane person, but I think it’s heavily hinted at that the joe that jumped off the bridge is trapped in his mind and Rhys has taken over.
@@radhiadeedou8286 the thing is though is everybody, and I mean everybody, has a piece of them that is “evil/bad”. We all have sides of us that wants to do bad things and has bad thoughts but the better side of us keeps that other side in check. Rhys is the embodiment of all the bad things Joe wants to do/thinks about doing, but the better side of Joe has tried to keep that side of him a little in check in recent seasons. So yes, Joe is evil and is not a good person, but Rhys is the most evil side of Joe that he has been trying to keep away, the side of him that has absolutely no moral code, which is why we saw Rhys reflection in the window. It’s literally Joes worst side of himself.
For me, the most shocking part was that Rhys and Joe never met. Not once. A lot of conspiracy theorists figured out that Rhys was in his head the whole time, like right away, which is fair, i guess. But the fact that Joe and Rhys are strangers?? Not even a single conversation. Joe had no reason to be obsessed with him. At least him Beck, Love and Marianne actually had conversations.
Next season: Ellie is making a documentary on "Eat the rich killer". The first person she meets is Lady Phoebe. She has seen Joe on TV multiple times with Kate. As she makes the movie, she meets so many others who survived. She makes the connection but isn't sure if Joe, the man who sent her money after the "quinns" killed her sister. She finally meets Nadia. And what she discovers shocks her... What Nadia and Ellie do is the plot of the remaining 5 episodes... Isn't that interesting?? 😊
i rewatched season 5 twice. once by myself and then with my wife. then were so many clues to what was going on. the most blatant one was kate's revelation. she said the cancer controversy her father caused was really her fault. she compartmentalized the entire ordeal to believe her father did it and not her.
My my, i dont know, but after watching all these seasons, I feel like joe, & for some reason I dont feel nothing for Nadia, she was an oversmart student who forgot her limits & paid for it.