Let's put a structure to the mayhem that Sylvanas has been causing for over a decade. What do you think are her worst offenses? Also I'd like to thank Dragon City for making this video possible, download the game through the link and get special rewards: mtchm.de/jzx3y
Derek Proudmoore, that's the peak of her being irredeemable. Not simply raising a mindless undead to use as a bomb, but a conscious being ripped from the afterlife and forced to be one.
Her worst?We all know,she broke helm of domination and now Ner'zull is free,as someone who have all kind of energy in him,fell,nature,arcane and death magic,I don't understand why no body care that she let free the worst vilian in the history of WoW wtf I mean,anyone else mess whit Kill'jaeden?No,but Ner'zull did it twice .. And we all know that Kill'jaeden is the 3rd most powerful creature in the multy verse of WoW,only Sargeras and Archimond are superior to him,but Archi+Kill'jaeden 2v1 can defeat Sargeras,so kill'jaeden is not this much weaker. If Kill'jaeden soul was sent to the maw,jailor whoud instant surrender,and Ner'zull mess whit Kill'jaeden,sylvanas let Ner'zull free and now we can say,hello apocalypse
Blizzard: "Can't you just forgive Sylvanas?" Me: "Uh...have you seen the things you've written?" Blizzard: "Sure but...she kinda hot tho" Me: "Bitch I'm gay, your sorcery doesn't work on me!"
As brilliant as a character she has been over the years. Story wise, time to wrap her up. She needs to get hers in the end. I understand the anger and bitterness because of what happened to her originally with Arthas and all but she acts like she was the only victim when the s#@! went down back in Warcraft 3. Time for her to realize she has caused more damage than Arthas did.
Actually everyone know that she deserved what Arthas did to her,he just wanted to pass the elven walls,and she said she won't take orders from foolish mortal,and was taunting him during the whole mission.As high elf sylvanas had the biggest ego possible!
No wtf what you mean more dmg than Arthas,he kind of summoned the strongest creature to walk on azeroth,he summoned Sargeras right hand lord Archimond... Sylvanas won't even be able to enter dalaran,what go about stealing the book of the dead....
Even if everything she's doing is for "the greater good" why all the secrecy, why is she the chosen, the only one who can achieve that? why not cooperate with your allies to achieve that greater good instead of killing them, damn it even sounds...dumb. How would she be redeemed, how would someone just say "oooh okaaay so that was it, she saved us all by doing all those crimes, we cool now" come on...
Nah. She is fighting for the real free will. A world without people not being controlled by fate or an ultimate power. Its perspective but, it isnt the right way for People of Azeroth as they already have commitments and their way of living.
@@bruhstoptaggingme She intends to break that cycle. Its like sheep which from the moment it was born, the mother takes care of it then the shepard will guide it to become fat and juicy, then getz butchered and the soul of that sheep goes to afterlife to relieve its sins or join anoyher cause. It has no choice and cannot escape life and death cycle. This is Sylvannas perspective.
No genocide is greater than what Activision blizzard committed on their own subscription numbers, millions gone, reduced to atoms... So yeah they can relate with her..
Arthas killed a half of the continent and destroyed some of the greatest kingdoms of its time. Community: He can be redeemed! He was just controlled by Frostmourne! Unlike Sylvanas, who is probably just tired of guarding Quel Thalas for years! And in general, we are not specifically interested of her past history! After all, we are the RIGHT community and we will all scream in one throat and say that she is a killer and in general she is Hitler 2.0! I guess hypocrisy on any scale is hiddenable by "right" community standard.
I think it's funny how triggered people get when you like a character in a video game. I like her lore. I like most character's lore. At least she isn't nails on a chalkboard annoying like Vareesa..... Ohh the novels make Vareesa horribly whiney....
@@insaneyoohoo You know there are Metzen zombie patchwork Sylvanas version fans with no faith in the horde who just want to dump the living in the same pit as the demons from WC3 right? Good old days until WotLK man :l
if Blizzard decides on redeeming Sylvanas, is like saying Hitler was good all along. Seriously, dont support Genocide, especially if those affected by it are families and children. And worse, the souls of those who burned are well... Tortured in the afterlife.
I want to see her redeemed. Just for i can sit back. Coffee in hand and watch the tears flow. If Illidan can be redeemed. If an entire race of orcs can be redeemed. Then Sylvie can. I mean that road. "Path of glory" in Hellfire was left there by orcs..... Sooo yeah.
@@Justin-A-Carter ilidan was never evil,just maiev is crazy,what evil ilidan did?He just steal demonic magic,it is not like he was trying to enslave the world... He was just magic addict like all the others high Borns. On other hand,prince Kael'thas try to summon Kill'jaeden,that's what I call evil! Becouse Kill'jaeden is literally the devil of wow
So if the machine of death is broken…and every soul in the entire universe or even multiverse is pouring into The Maw That means more than a quadrillion innocent or not souls at least are damned because of Windrunners selfish choices
I think it was used in BFA as well not sure however the thing only grew out of control because of the dude there but it was installed for a reason the guy only went crazy and he simply will be replaced by someone less crazy
Sylvanas will be missed then. I always thought that she will never get killed off because she is so innocent when she sing her tragic events in Undercity. It’s ashamed she is going to be another Garrosh. This lore is not Sylvanas fault. It is the writer fault. Rest In Peace Sylvanas Windrunner.
@@ddgdigz7668 - Depends on the victors. The Horde would put her down in the ground for betrayal. The Alliance would put her down for war crimes. So, 1 + 1 = 2.
Naah it's all good she'll get a redemption in the 9.1 raid. None of this ever happened and if it did she can just do the :( face and it'll all be fine!
@@Runabou Yup, and the important part is, she got sent to the Maw after Arthas's defeat. What's the point to argue that she's irredeemable by highlight her post-WOTLK crimes, when her actions between her bashee life to pre-WOTLK seemed to be considered irredeemable already.
@@TheWieldofrost im almost 100% sure she went to the Maw because the valkyr put her there. It makes 0 sense that she would go to the maw (at that point at least), especially since garrosh did way worse stuff than her (at that point) and he went to revendreth. And the fact that Devos thought it necessary to put arthas directly into the maw basically confirms that no one goes directly into the maw and that everybody gets a last Chance in revendreth.
Blizzard: Can't you just forgive Sylvanas? Me: Can be forgiven Osama and Hitler? Blizzard: Of course not! Me: Then why we should forgive Sylvanas? Blizzard: Because she is hot. Me: That excuse doesn't fly.
Indeed. I made an irredeemable character who is downright evil and vile, but people tell me that she's "justified". Kills thousands in a war of conquest with her brother. Does Vlad the Impaler levels of public execution. Helps abduct people for her brother's magical experiments. But buff boobas.
Yup. Would have loved to see how long Sylvanas would have lasted if it was an elf guy that got turned into a rotting corpse but keep everything she does/did the same xD
even sylvanus fans stopped preparing excuses for her. they now started doing "my queen is so powerful. she does everything she wants." here is one of them. max mcintyre You call it war crimes I call it Sylvanas’s many accomplishments long live the banshee queen she’s so awesome and sexy I had no love for the night elf world tree or gens no worth of a son
Honestly she doesn’t need to be redeemed but not die forever, just put her on the shelf for 2 years or something and then show her for that next expansion.
So Illidan can enslave innocents, sacrifice and play with the souls of others, possibly have questionable things done with his "concubines" and murder when it's convenient for the greater good... But Syl raising undead against their will and commiting genocide for the same reason is a no no? Got it.
@@insaneyoohoo Never even said I liked her and you drop the simp BS lol. I lost interest in her character the minute she became every animes typical villain now a days. I just don't see how Illidan gets off so easy with the stuff he's done even if it was shitty BC writing, but meanwhile Sylvanas becomes one of the multitude of reasons people aren't even interested in the game lol. They're the ones writing her with this "oh I'm doing this for the better" not me.
She is a big hypocrite about it. Garrosh calls her out on it and she laughs it off. Her major motivation up through Wrath was her hatred of Arthas for denying her a clean death.
An entire race. Can kill. Enslave. Make a road made of skeletons. Kill. Rape dragon lady (make her force breed to make mounts for them.... Orcs are horrid beast.... And i am horde and realize this!
@@mrmoncherz2574 The problem with what you stated is this. Those pilots were not shotdown by their own people or killed by their own people. They were shotdown by the Americans and they committed, by themselves, suicide. Sylvanas had warriors on the front lines, and she stated release the gas. She killed her own people, instead of them wanting to commit suicide.
10:56 To be fair, at the time of that event, all the souls were being sent to the Maw, so the afterlife wouldn't really be any better. However, that still doesn't excuse the enslavement part.
I mean sargeras used to be good untill he discovered the void lords and learned of there plans. So yeah I believe he might be redeemed considering the people that have been redeemed so far. Plus people have a thing for redeemed genicoidle villains. Look at Steven universe for example.
Blizzard is destroying the characters. Tbh I liked Tyrande , but once they removed Elune's spell from her I lost my interest in her. You know night warrior vs sylvanas interaction that's what i was hoping to see in this expansion but anyways. I cannot take Tyrande serious anymore, let alone Sylvanas. F ...
They ruined Elune. We thought she was some cosmic being. Now we know she is not. When Tyrande had the power, Elune stated she gave her the choice of vengance or life; just after that battle with Sylvanas. The problem is that Elune contradicted herself by taking her powers away from Tyrande when she had Sylvanas pinned. Blizzard writing characters and stories, for many years now, has been horrible.
Well, I knew there wouldn't be anything from the time she was alive. That's the problem for me, as these two Sylvanases appear to be very different beings. It's actually rather stupid of the writers imo to do this with her, as she would have never done this in life, nor in the time when she regained her free will (as in that time she just wanted a place in the world for the Forsaken). They chose the path for get that either upsets most of the playerbase, making her a redeemed Hitler, or doesn't do her living side no justice at all (let's be honest, she would've probably gotten to Bastion).
I left the game after just farming castle Nathria week after week. I've recently come back because I missed the game, but redeeming Sylvanas will probably make me unsub until the next xpack
Before Shadow Lands ruined the lore and Sylvanas,. I could see Teldrassil as Retribution considering Genn and Tess's attacks on the Horde when they should be focusing on the Legion.
I don't think they should redeem Sylvanas, but I also don't think they should try to redeem Arthas nor should they have redeemed Illidan. He was a cool villain and the writing of his redemption was bad.
Why is killing the stupid Night elves a crime? Literally all the problems Azeroth has faced was caused by them and their queen. They should have burned longer.
Pandaria. The Mogu and the Trolls. They caused problems way before the Night Elves came to be. By the way, Sargeras was already looking for Azeroth. He would have gotten there eventually with his Legion. Also note: It was not the Night Elves that caused the first problem. Queen Azshara was part of the Highborne. There are differences. The Highborn do not consider the Night Elves as her people, but lesser. The Highborn were then dismissed, and became Naga, Blood Elves or High Elves. Guess whom has the Blood Elves on their side?
After listening to all those things up until number 2 the burning od Teldrassil seems underwhelming for a number one. I am not Sylvanas apologist and not even horde player but making whole areas of the world inhabitable or denying people afterlife forever by making them undead seems so much worse than burning wolrd tree and killing a lot on night elves. It was terrible but some od her other crimes seemed even worse to me.
Nice you talk about Dragon City. I have the game on my phone. While nothing new in warcraft appeared, I decided to play a real mobile and not that crude mission table from Shadowlands. Syl has to fall. In an objective way? Because that goes against my notion of justice, karma and the golden rule. She has not gone mad and done vile deeds, she has not been corrupted and committed villains, she has not even been trying to do right by devious means. She is bad. And she has to suffer. I know that Blizzard will have Syl end up going full Kerrigan down our throats, and hope we'll be grateful for that, as a way of ridiculing any form of justice there might be in a story. And that will end up making night elves seem even more losers and the alliance a bunch of ridiculous.
I didn't really care if she was redeemed, atleast in the eyes of the alliance, but before the bfa shit, I'd really hoped voljin gave her purpose and she was gonna really lead the horde. Extend her protection from forsaken to all horde. When she screamed "for the horde" and saurfang got that adrenaline rush I was like fuck yeah, bring it on. But then they went and made her the hordes enemy too. Now horde is all "BUT MY HONOR" man fuck that noise, let's have a warchief that goes as hard as garrosh and sylvanas but for the whole horde.
Want a good redemption for Sylvanas and truly tie the story in a retcon that can be believable? Pull a version of 'His Silicon Soul' from Batman Animated Series: it was NOT Sylvanas that came back from Ice Crown. She jumped and went on to the Shadowlands redeemed. Something else escaped the maw (glances at that portal we reactivated) and was wearing her body, reading her memories or a piece of soul and was acting as Sylvanas. I have held for YEARS that the post Cata Sylvanas was a different character than the one that jumped off ICC. Had there been planning, we would have found Sylvanas in Ardenweald at the start of the expansion. Then the Windrunner clone agent's actions makes more sense. It has been wearing the ranger-general body so long, it starts to feel empathy, shame, pain as parallels to the end of its hosts' 'life' before possession. Even the end cinematic after nega-Sylvanas is defeated, turning on the Jailer would be kinda badass. We fight her with the REAL Sylvanas... the copy, having forgotten who it really was, fueld by the new feelings built up over time in the body, on the brink of defeat, remembers who and what it was before being turned into a tool by the Jailer... launches herself at him in revenge and is permakilled or however that works in the Shadowlands. The REAL Sylvanas returns the the Hunt. Or... we can really lean into the Avengers thing, since Jailer is cosplaying Thanos: a subplot chain has her and Tyrande off doing a buddy cop thing scouring the Shadowlands for former leaders and warriors to restore them for the fight against the Jailer and restore the Maw. In the endgame portion, would be joined by Vol'jin, Saurfang, Cairne, Varian, Uther, Jaina in her lightforged Dreadlord form, and other heroes from lore for one big battle across sections of Azeroth as the borders between realities breaks down. Then... bright white and darkness at the end of the Jailer. You are then presented with an Infinite Dragonflight form of Chromie... who asks you to choose... and expansion splash screens cycle around... you click... and are returned to the start of that expansion... level 1.
The problem is how some fans and writers define evil. Sylvanas murders hundreds, lies to and betrays allies, tries to enslave cosmic beings for personal gain, tries to break the cosmos because she doesn't like the Afterlife: "She's not evil and totally irredeemable. The Naaru Xe'ra imprisons one elf and tries to lightforge another elf by force: "IRREDEEMABLE EEEEVUL NAARU!" The double standard is real.
"Being a proud worgen hunter and having the worgen home destroyed twice by the evil banshee traumatized by the death of our brave prince. I just can't wait to unleash my nice necrolord machine gun in her arrogant evil face just like the cry of the wolf gun back in the day". Says trmpistworg ( Game character talk actually because sylvanas is an NPC & not a real being so don't even dare flag a roleplay). Every wow character on shadow lands wants a piece of the crazy banshee. We already got the side bish muzalla.& The blood sucking ape dranathrius. The worgen is still hot onthe banshees tail still even after killing her errand boy on azeroth still. Trmpistworg chose the necros cos the angels and vamps even the druids And fae would be too kind to give the banshee what justice she deserves. Again in RP. This is a great drive for a comeback campaign for sure happy hunting.
I still remember her words during the Cinematic "For the Horde...." she said WHAT FOR THE HORDE BITCH!? YOU ARE NOT MY WARCHIEF! (Seriously i really hope she will not redemed, otherwise the story would start to suck and than i'm not going to follow WOW anymore)
I just like evil characters. I am not sure why. Being the bad guy is fun. Being a hero sucks all the time. The people who play heros in game and take the role of the "Good guy" become insufferable. I hope they do not redeem her. I want to see her to go down in a blaze of evil glory.
Can you tell me why she cant and arthas can he comitted more then sylvanas before he was lich king and basiclly he is resposable for her crimes so how can he be redeemed?
is there a list of what could redeem sylvanas and all the good she did? also i would like to hear points if she loved nathanos or not and same for him as well if he loved sylvanas
if you play classic you can do the champion of sylvanas questline in the plaguelands. along the way you get a book that turns out to be some kind of a diary written by sylvanas while she was still alive and you learn that nathanos was the first human to become one of the rangers and was recomended and trained by her personaly.
You are incorrect about they 8th point on your list. She only killed the horde member at the gathering and Calia states outright in the book that she isn't a citizen of the horde or the alliance. Anduin Agrees with her, that is why he didn't start a war after the events of the gathering.
Hey, Horde players who constantly bitch about the internment camps, where are your complaints about the Sludge Fields? And btw, Orcs killed elves for resources/trees for about 15 years, why are you ok with Sylvanas' plagueing of everything to the point of crops not being able to grow?
That was a while back. the horde reformed lol... Syl.. in current times committed genocide, so 2 wrongs make a right? She shouldn't be redeemed because EVERYONE gets redeemed and they need to do a different story arc at this point.
Lich king is not an agent of a weakling like jailor,he was created by the all mighty Kill'jaeden!!! Kill'jaeden+Archimond can literally 2vs all WoW lore xD
But Arthas can be redeemed when he killed half of the Eastern Kingdoms and destroyed the greatest cities and kingdoms?) Well, of course, he can be redeemed because he was controlled by Frostmourne! That means he is absolutely not to blame for what he did! But Sylvanas did everything absolutely consciously! (She just tired of guarding Quel Thalas for years and wanted to burn the tree) And in general Arthas can be redeemed for free! Because we are all love Arthas and hate Sylvanas! A weak video, I would say ... useless. It is very sad when people do not see anyone except Heroes and Villains, when there can be are others ...
I am a Arthas fan and Why would I want Arthas redeemed? Arthas story is perfect as it is, a tragic story of a prince trying to save his people and kingdom, only to fall for it himself, there is no need for redemption for him, if anything I want Blizz to stay as far away as possible from Arthas. I don't want them to ruin him. Arthas doesn't need redemption, let he be the -villain-. Sylvanas is just a horrible, trying to justify her actions by "breaking the wheel of death", yet powering herself up and the Jailor, tricking everyone around her, starting a war that wasn't needed, knowing fully well that she is sending innocent lives to super hell. And yet post WotLK, Horde accept the Forsaken in and the Taurens even tried to find a way to cure the Forsaken. Did Sylvanas try to do anything with that? She was busy with the Lich King so thats fine. But after the fall of the Lich King? Kill as meny people as possibal. Sylvanas lost her chance of redemption long ago, she doesn't deserve it.
I hate how they trashed the morally grey factions dynamic they created in Warcraft 3. It was the one thing that made the franchise so great, there were no good or bad parts. Ever since then the horde were always the bad guys, and specially the undead. It really ruined the franchise for me. Lok´tar ogar mothafuckas
Sylvanas oppressed the people of China, and when they spoke up and protested, Blizzard said it wasn't a big deal....told them to stop whining.. Syl is really a good guy..
Well actually I can. I just do not have to play the game. I could say it died after she threw herself off of Icecrown. She would be in the Maw. Justice for all, Hahahahaha! LOL!
What's ridicules about the burning of the tree is that since it is so massive, even with modern napalm, it would not burn up so fast that you can't get nearly everyone out. In a magical world or portals and flying creatures, it would have been more likely that everyone would be saved. The twist could be that the Alliance hides the refugees and claims they are all dead so as to draw up public support for the assault on Undercity. How awesome would it have been to go to Shadowlands and can't find Kaldori souls, only to find out it's because they are alive and well.
People who try to defend sylvanas’s character are so embarrassing you see nothing but elf tits sylvanas was NEVER a good person after she was raised before she threw herself off ICC her whole character was 1 dimensional she was hellbent on killing arthas she never cared about the forsaken she calls them “arrows in her quiver” all she wanted was revenge she didn’t care who had to die how she was gonna get it who was gonna suffer she never cared she only cared about herself and what was in her best interest so I’m tired of seeing the sylvanas defense stuff sylvanas was never benevolent in death she was only fixated on revenge and everyone and everything was a means to an end
I mean... Can't she?. In Wow there's in afterlife and a literal eternity. Can't everyone be the redeemed and make up for their actions if they have literal ETERNITY to do so?
@@princessnahema Everyone. She has ETERNITY. literally forever, FOR-EV-ER to be a good person. From a narrative point of view she's awful and deserves no redemption, but technically speaking, since there's ETERNITY to redeem her, she's not beyond it.
She was justified for the gathering. I think her response was appropriate and she was right when she said about the ones that were returning to her side, "how can we know who was truly loyal or who was just returning out of fear?" They could have betrayed her later. Granted I am a bit biased. I love sylvanas. I don't understand why they made her serve the jailer. She would never "serve" anyone after what the lich king did. She never even served the horde, simply fought with them
Rune King Arthas arrives and rips of his head (his magic keeps her alive and they its send to a realm inside the Yggdrassil Tree as her Prison) thats her Reedemption
In wow universe these deaths dont mean anything. Entire shadowlands is there after everyone dies. And she knows that. 70 years on earth against eon of afterlife is blink of an eye. Only people got fucked by this system was sylvanas and the undead. Sylvanas was great general with honor, and because she was good person she fucked eternally by the system. (Incase some people dont know, when arthas was attacking silvermoon she had a killshot on arthas without him knowing. And she gave arthas chance to turn back.)
Look I am coming in as an alliance lore nerd and I can say this up front I Don't think she is noonday redemption because if anything everything she did was because of the Jailer the fact he dragged her into the Maul and gave her away to live again in ICC is the main reason she turned to this much evil unless you can list 1 war crime BEFORE her 2nd death you can see that the Jailer manipulated her from the start
I knew I would get people like this but tell me can you disprove my point tell me one war crime before ICC that would have taken Slyvanus to the Maul just one
@@trickymander Sylvanas was killed with Frostmourn in W3 so why ICC? And don't tell me that Blizz had all this redemption of hers planned since way back than.
10. Not only it is not a crime, she also never did that. 9. She didn't break the machine of death, she is doing all this because the machine was broken 8. So we are now blaming what was only and only Calia's fault on Sylvanas? Traitors deserve death and everyone who went there knew that Sylvanas would kill them at the slightest hint of treachery. That was the deal. 7. Giving people a second chance at life is not a crime. 6. Ok. Developing a weapon is kind of a warcrime. But literally everyone does that sooo... 5. Eeh, battle of Gilneas? Honestly, the Gilneans (mostly just Genn) caused themselves far more damage than Sylvanas ever could. 4. Finally something that could be kind of considered a crime. 3. It is not a crime to raise soldiers and especially not your own soldiers. Most would die twenty times over for their warchief. If anything, ending the battle short and saving hundreds of soldiers was a good thing. 2. Cruelest concentration camp? Oh boi you never heard about the interment camps. It is mostly kind of a hilarious place. 1. Burning a corrupted world tree and saving thousands is now a crime kids! And we actually know how many perished, kind of; less than a thousand is what is confirmed in canon. Alliance propaganda overblows this event massively.
I fully support you, my friend, I am glad that there are adequate people in the WOW community who primarily use their brain when analyzing Sylvanas actions. I am very glad that the community does not consist entirely of hypocrites who scream in one throat how bad she is and try to find the reasons for her NON-REDEMPTION
@@Nerazmus And do not pay attention to the first comment, because this is one of the very hypocrites for whom Sylvanas is evil and a murderer, and for them Arthas is a victim.
