I own a vs with 333 stroker it's a roller cam VT block. T5 and 3.9 hydratrak out of a vx GTS. I'm 28 I have owned it 8 years now before it I owned a vy sv8. I personally don't think I will ever find a ls powered commodore that is remotely close to having the feel of the vs it's a real blast it's my unicorn. I also enjoy the sound of its grumpy 5ltr. Plus in the world of everything being L's or Barra. It's nice to pay tribute to the king. Holden V8s might be gorn but not forgotten
It’s a shame Holden didn’t get the LT6 32 valve quad cam in time - Holden may still have been in business. GM finally woken up to modern technology- the most powerful NA v8 in the world - ever. Nobody else is even close.
Today's woke/wank consumers can never appreciate a damn near indestructible 253. Had it not been overshaddowed at birth by it's bigger sister 308, we would likely be seeing 253 powered cars in race museums because the 253 is easily one of the strongest engines ever made anywhere on this planet. Muppets think an RB30 is a better thing because they don't know any better. Imagine an SLR with an RB30!... I think I'm gunna vomit.
I always liked the 3.8lt Buick V6- i imported a 4lt stroker kit from the States and we built a twin turbo kit, great little motor.and after the turbos, would surprise the VZ/ VY lads with their brand new SS's, and me pimping around in my Aquamarine VR sleeper 😄
I totally agree with you. The VN/ VP/ VR Buick 3.8 V6 engine was the best of the V6 engine commodores. I had a 94 VR Calais for my first car. After I upgrade the tires and wheels to 235/40/18 and replaced the suspension, front and rear sway bars, sway bar links, bushes, tire rods and strut brace. It handled like a train on tracks. Then I got a Mace intake, Mace 70mm throttle body, Mace stage3 ECU memcal with PaceMaker headers and full 2 1/2 inch Xforce exhaust. It went so well for what it was. Shortly after that my friend brought a VS with the EcoTec trying too be better. But as soon as he got an after market exhaust system I started to suffer serious migraines from the disgusting noise that came from it.
@@ClunieGarage People also thought my VR Calais was a V8 when I cruised around with light throttle. It was just a raw and grunty sounding engine. My dad reckons its sounds agriculture cause GM found it in a tractor lying around LMAO.
The buick v6 was actually a boat motor before it made its way into the Commodores. I owned 2 vp wagons with these engines in them,they were reliable but had problems with the heads on them and overheating issues. The buick v6 is no performance engine without sinking thousands into them,thats why you dont see any of them running the quarter mile. Unlike the mighty barra,theres no six cylinder engine that holden made that comes anywhere near close to the performance of fords 4.0 litre inline six cylinder engine, undoubtedly the best inline six cylinder engine ever made. Show me a v6 holden engine that can make 600 kw on a factory crank and make multiple quarter mile runs with no problems, you cant because they dont handle the power that a barra engine does. Hell the barra turbo engines being built today are putting out up to and beyond 1000 kw,these engines are indestructible and are v8 holden eaters!
@@Healthliving1967 LOL a barra needs forced induction just to make it move hahahaha............. every and any motor will gain power with a turbo so what are you on about? NA barra vs NA LS7- LS7 eats barra for brekky lunch and tea
That's cause it was a waste of time small cubic "V8 had a vb commodore 4.2 then droped a 5.0 red eng 4 barrel Rochester carb made more horsepower and fuel consumption was exactly the same use to average 14 _15 L 100
I’ve had 7 commodores through the years from the VL Turbo to the 340 HSV Clubsport which now sits proudly in my garage. What a shame it’s all gone now. Great memories 👍👍
agree had a LC Gtr Torana with a 186 engine and a fully worked 161 head on it. was so ported out only meat left was fir the bolt threads to go through on the head bolts. triple webbers and huge solid cam that used to shake the car to bits. mirrors would come loose and many other parts. Beat turbo and supercharged supras. many V8'S and hosed my mates VH Charger E49 spec. 4.11 gears it would smash all from the lights. I bought the cam off a engine builder whose son had it on his speedway car for one night said was too big for the small track and i was crazy putting it on a street car. It was a mongrel in heavy traffic. he was kind of wright. but i loved how it sounded and performance was awesome.
Top performance engines. But I've worked on EH 179 engines that had done over 1,000,000 miles, never had the head off and you could put a glass of water on the air cleaner with just the slightest ripple. Those early 179s earned respect.
I found that the 202 was just as reliable as a 179 or 186, maybe the 202 has a bit more power, but for the extra fuel it used it wasn't worth the extra cubes, you'd be better off with a 253 or 308. So i don't rate a 202. i'd put a 179 and 186 before it every time.
G'day David, correct. Young Frankie has also advised me of this. This means the VK blue meanie is actually a 304 contrary to everyone's popular belief that it is a 308 banger.
G'day mate, yes I remember the stroker in the yellow GTS-R. Also came out with a blueprint option from HSV for another $10k from memory. 215kW....that used to be a lot of power back in the day 😃
Only 2 of your engines are Holden's. A Nissan built under license, and a couple of imported yanks. I'm a Holden nut, I own two Holdens, with Holden engines, and a commodore with a Buick engine.
My pick of the bunch would be the Aussie 5.0 308 and 304 injected, in my experience in the workshop even though the ls engine produced phenomenal power, the 308 and 304 seemed more reliable, great video keep em coming!!
holdens were allways 1/2 baked pommy or American versions of something else. LJ Toranas,,, boooo, it was a vauxhall. I had a 327hk for 21 years,, it was deemed the big banger in 1968,, had the 250hp "early version" 327 while the camaro of the same era had 300,350, 375,450hp. the hatchback torana,s, oldsmobile starfire, chev monza copy. The commodores. i saw VT,s in Kazahkstan in 2010, they had chevrolet badges and were not the Aussie made cars, they came out of Opal in Europe. I saw a 4cyl VB commodore in Moscow in 2011, had opal badges. The 308 was a good engine. And there should have been a 350 version of the 308 in Toranas in stead of the lame 253. Evan Green made sure of that wasnt going to happen and ford canned the big block falcons.
@@robertstojcevski1098 if you think the old Holden engines is better than an ls3 you are full of it l have owned both for long periods of time and the 5 litre Holden engine is average at best none of my friends are people l know have had any problems with the ls3 so stop dribbling fan boy🤭
Doesn’t matter if was in a crapper door it’s still not a Holden engine . Because if u wanna go by that handicapped thought the Nissan motor was the best 😂😂
The 308ci was OVER 5.0L buddy. That's the reason that they had to go develop the 304ci motor for Group A racing from the VL until the VX. Now, the 304, THAT is under 5.0L at 4984cc (but is classified as a 5.0L as it's above 4950cc where the Ford 302 being 4949cc was a 4.9L) but the 308 was 5048cc.
@@campcreekhill8933 I think you're right but I'm not gonna worry about 4cc as it said 5048cc from the source I got it from. point was to let Clunie know that the 308 was over 5000cc while the 304 was under. 👍
Thec3.3 black and blue motors. had the best of the old red motors development, sadly choked by emissions. From stock, ditch the complex plumbing, a set of headers, a decent carbon and manifold, no internal changes, and they went really well. Update the EFI, and the vk will liven up another.
I think the 253 was the best. It had the fuel consumption of a 6, and the grunt of the V8. Always had 253s from my HQ Kingswood to my VB Comode. Ive now got a crappy LS1. Yeah its alright, but I don't think it comes near the old 350s, or even the 308s. Also had an LJ Tory with a 192 with triple SUs and fuel balancer, and I could take on anything except for the SLRs and anything with a 350. The Tory cost me back then a weeks wages to change from a 173 to the 192.
G'day mate, thanks for the background. I had a mate who had the 253 in a HQ ute. The thing always felt under powered and slow to rev from my perspective. Am with you on the 308 and 350 though. They were great!
The 253 had the economy of a six and the power of a six. Put on lpg, it got better mileage than a 202 on gas. The 308 was a glutton for fuel compared. Good motor, almost as powerful and almost as economical as a Hemi 6.
I can see from the comments and your reply why it wasn't mentioned but the 253 has had plenty of hate or disregard from many a holden fan over the years but with a little tickle up and a few little changes they are no slouch. Given the commercial vehicle ones where slugs still think they rate a mention at least. Anyway cool vid
I’ve had a few bad experiences with Holden 308 where if you bomb them out to around 500 hp basically they go bang the block is just not strong enough You’ve gotta be real careful
There are heaps and heaps of 500hp 308s that have had no issue with the block integrity. The biggest issues the 308 blocks ever had was core shift issues that often meant thin cylinder walls, that is why you wont see many guys going to + .060" let alone over .060". But they are a fairly easy engine to make power with.
Best engines holden ever made is a toss up between the 179 and the 186, bullet proof! Not high performance in stock configuration but getting them to boogaloo was not hard with carbs and exhaust mods and they were still bulletproof! 202s were good but suffered with weak timing gears,and thin bores were easily overcooked!
Good at seperating the tops off stock pistons, getting hot resulting in disintegrating fibre timing gears and distributor gears, cracking between welch plugs. Oh, and the terrible oil pressure they had when they were older. This goes for any Holden red/ blue/black sixes. He misses the point on the 202 in racing- the best part was the lightweight nimble car the LJ was.
@@rossbrumby1957 lol why we put straight cut gears in our Holden sixes. wasn't just the whining sound it was for strength. also you put the steel gears from the oil pump on to the Holden distributor and solved that problem also. Then you put the Ford 221 crank and modifie it and put it into a Holden 202 or 186 and you got 235 cubes. also put the 161 head on the 186 or 202 and got a tonne more compression and then fully port it. Made killer engines that scared off the v8 and turbo import boys.
@@TheBraddles82 haha classic! Yes, probably true. I remember a bloke telling me how he turned one to over 9000rpm. I reckon they would put a leg out of bed at 6500rpm the poor ol things!
Had a stock one in a HT 3 on the tree but it didn't rev, was very disappointing as a V8 but had a 350 in a HQ Statesman that I wish I still had. That had some grunt but the 253 was a boat anchor compared to the 308, but I'm no expert & the 253 was stock standard, think the carb was a single barrel as well lol.
G'day Anthony, yep you are spot on. Low compression, slow revving, low cubes, lazy cam pieces of junk the old 253. 350s were so cool and wish I had one. I loved my built 308 in my LS SS Torana. Thanks for watching our channel btw!!
Haha nice one. We will be doing a top ford engines video soon and I reckon the barra will get a mention. The ol vacuum cleaner sounds terrible but geez they go alright.
@@dcr1545 I had a VF ss with L77 and didn’t have anything go wrong had it for 3 years before my GTS that I have now . Might have heard of the odd lifter issue for sure but heard that on some LS engines which is a shame . But the L98 was a good engine I agree also
I thought that the 253 would have made the grade I have an L76 SV8....in one word...perfect...181,000kms and spent nothing except oils and filters in the 8 years I have owned it....
G'day, we clarified that point at the start of the video. The list includes all engines fitted to Holdens irrespective of the GM plant they came from. 308 and 202 were locally made Holden engines.
From a reliability and ease of repair, the buic 3800/Ecotec is a great engine. Not necessarily a powerhouse, but very smooth and a fair competitor to ford sohc back in the day. Shame the 3.0/3.6 dohc engines replaced it. I would have loved to see the new Lt-based Ecotec3 go into the vf successor that we never got
308 was the soft block had no oil pressure and it’s replacement was in the VT crumble door was the 304 chev pattern gearbox they fixed the oil pressure problem and the LS crank would bolt straight in the block also known as the Peter brock engine
I love the red motor, 179, 186 and the 202. As for the V8's I love the 307 (a lot of sentiment in that one, lol). Tangent time, whats the Inter in the background? Looks cool.
That little 3.6L twin turbo unit you spoke about from the 04 Torana concept has in essence made its way into production -- check out the 2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing - even has a manual option 👌🏻 Also check out the CT5-V Blackwing (what I view as the spiritual successor to the SS/HSVs) also touting a 6 speed manual 👍🏻
Damn, now you've got me wondering about how something like that CT4-V Blackwing engine would go in my VF wagon - 472hp with no significant weight increase over the standard NA V6, and probably close to a bolt-in swap, since it's a variant of the same engine family. Good thing it's not available locally, otherwise I could see myself going down a really big and expensive rabbit hole...
@@bradevans7935 Agreed mate would be right at home in a VF - something different thats for sure! Im curious if anyone has done the LF3/LF4 engine swap into a commodore
Holden had some good 6 cylinders and rather them then any v6 wang wang these days. Secrets to a tough Holden 6 was straight cut timing gears for original were weak. wasn't just that whining sound for using them. Also the distributor plastic gears broke. so you put the metal oil pump gears on them also. Use a Ford 221 crank on the 186 and Cubic inches rose to 235 cui and mates Holdens ran 10 seconds quarters in Toranas with these. 308 was over 5.0 litres and 304 was under with 4.9 litres built because Ford cried in v8 supercars as theirs was under 5.0 litres. First 304 engines were destroked 308 blocks in the last VK model Commodore. Oh god want to rev it chev it. Sorry champ Holden 308 can rev higher then a 350 and is facts. smaller the cubes the more it can rev.
You betcha Marc. I would put the star fire from the VB and the Camira engine at the top of that list. I will have to a top 5 worst engines. The Barina Opel engines will get a mention as well!
@@ClunieGarage Good choice of engines. The XU-1 engine I thought was great edition, I’ve owned 2 original LJ GTR’s with a lot of the XU-1 running gear and known others with genuine GTR and XU-1 cars. I’ve also had 2 sets of orig 175CD2 Strombergs, so am familiar with the engines. The VL and VN Group A equiped cars I’m also familiar with as I’ve owned 1 of each. I’m interested to see how the Brock race race car comes along.
Sorry its the 186 you should google the information before yo say anything .......it took me 1 second to find out but i already know im from that time when they were around alot
@@ClunieGarage the bloke who made the sandman was going to put a 6.5 in the Hx Le but he got turned down with the idea , also there was some Rb vn's as test mules, some turbo ecotec Vt test mules that made it to street testing but where not fully approved by GM's board
Surprised the 202 made the list. First time I saw them was in the HQ Holden. As I recall, they had huge reliability issues. Two engines came out the the Hq, the 202 and the 161. The 202 was supposed to be the 186 of the future passenger market. Its sibling was the 161. Bit of a slug was the 161. But as reliable as all get up.
The HQ came with 2 6cyl engines, the 173ci & 202ci, not the 161ci, the 161ci came on line in the HK Kingswood & finished with the HG Kingswood & LC Torana, there was also a 138ci red engine available in the LC Torana, the 173ci was the economy 6cyl option in the Belmont/Kingswood HQ.
I had a 202 in my HQ panel van back in the 80's, never had any issues with reliability, was great in that respect, I just found it to be a bit thirsty compared to my 253 I had in my HG Kingswood before it...that gave me surprisingly good economy. the 202 finally died one day when I over revved it and took the top off a piston. replaced it with a fully reconditioned 186 which I loved.
@@mickblack2800 The 161 was the base engine in the HR from 1966. It was also standard in the LC GTR in 1970. What most people DON'T KNOW IS... Dick Johnson got the very first GTR TORANA to ever hit a QLD race track on the grid at Lakeside way before the HDT ever got their first XU1 & Tricky's LC GTR ran in Improved Production with it's 161 in full race form. Tricky raced that GTR successfully for several years & eventually upgraded it to LJ lookalike with a 202. He had several LJs right up until he switched to Falcon Hardtops in 1976. Tricky ended up with the very same XU-1 that rudely ran out of fuel at Bathurst in 1973 with Doug Chivas at the wheel. Tricky rebuilt that thing & he became the Six Cylinder Holden King of Queensland when he repeatedly ran away from HDT & Brock/Bill Patterson L34s AND 351 XA & XB HARDTOPS at Lakeside & Surfers Paradise right ut to the end of 1976. The old 161 was a brilliant little motor. Every HR, HK, HT & HG UTE & PANELVAN used by tradies & contractors all over Australia for bloody decades came standard with a 161 unless it was ordered new otherwise or eventually re-engined. I worked for O'Donnell - Griffin Contracting in Brisbane in the late '70s and our most reliable work vehicles were HT & HG utes & vans with 161s that had gone around the clock & just kept on going. The children who put this little presentation together wouldn't know a good engine from a hole in the ground because they came down in the last shower. Holden built really tough engines that kept on running even after the bloody car had rusted in half. Tinpot crap like RB30s & Gen111 chintzyarse kids toys aren't even in the race. Dear old Holdens built this nation throughout the 1950s '60s '70s 80s & beyond. Billions of miles were covered in the process. . . and while all that was going on, thousands of us hotted our old Holdens up & thousands of Holdens won every kind of motor sport event you can think of. How many events were ever won with RB30s & alloy Chevs?... NOT MANY!
You talk rubbish as someone who has owned over 60 1970 Holdens from 6 cylinder to Holden V8 to Chevy v8. there was nothing wrong with the 202 engine at all and Look at the LJ GTR Torana and see this as it was beating the big 351 Ford engine. Known 202 engines to do 400,000 km without needing a rebuild. I even put big solid cams in a few 202 engines one with 240,000km and another with 330,000km and no issues. most said chance of blowing the rings out. nope even raced and beat supercharged Toyota Supras. R33 GTR skylines with it.
I had all three. 202, 308 & 350. I like the old inter truck you have in the shop. I used to regularly drive one of them 1976 -77 model. I think it was a 345 cu V8 petrol, it went alright but oh, the fuel consumption, man do they like a drink. then again back then (when new) petrol was cheep.
G'day Ross, yes I am restoring it the Inter. Its a 1969 C1600. I have fitted a 345 V8 from a later model Acco. Slowly getting there with the resto. Its a big job!
Back when i was an apprentice our repco branch used to do an exchange on the 345 v8s we pretty much always had one in stock and one on the go, they seemed to have a habit of dropping valves with catastrophic results to the tops of their dished looking piston tops.
I liked my 3.8 Ecotec v6 in my vt base model , more than adequate power no engine trouble with the car with a lot of km but put your foot down it did like fuel.
Great video mate! gotta give an honourable mention to that final stroker motor that was in the (I think) the last VT HSV's before the LS was introduced. some other good local channels, for the ford fans "Gap Sauce" and for the for a mix of ford and holden "XYYNOT Drifting"
Final stroker motor was in the VR Holden had standard factory stroker clearance block. i know as had to hunt for one for my SLR 5000 build. a lot did not know about it and you could pick them up for a steal and resell them for a profit. i bought and sold 20 of these and made good money. VT just used the same block. all models did until the LS1 came in. Think the block had 5.0 written on it and all non stroker blocks had 304 written on them.
Gday mate, hope you're well! I gotta say, love vids like this, as someone who grew up around hotted up cars in the 80's it brings back so many good memories.
What did you think of the different versions of Holden 6 202 3.3L.... first the Red motor, then the Blue with major changes and finally the Black motors....
Depends which power route you want to take. Staying na may not get you to 440kw even with heads, cam etc.. Forced induction is a proven route and will set you back $16-20k.
@@ClunieGarage Ah the buick thats th eone where almost every single one has to have new valve guides fitted dues to poor machining which made the valve stem seal offset a little to the valve stem allowing oil to be sucked down the guide. I think that engine was designed back in the fifties had a little shim in the front and the timing cover held the cam in with a little shim a real afterthought.
G'day Matt, yes the lines do look familiar hey. That prototype launched in 2004 from memory and then the VE came out in 2006 so stands to reason that some of the design could have carried through.
@@ClunieGarage every Holden or Chevy fan loves an LS and the ecotec isn't a flashy motor just reliable as they come any motor that gets 750k-900k on LPG in a taxi is a good thing
I'd add first off the 186, great little motor that went like stink with the right work done to it, especially for its small size. knew a guy when I was younger that had one in an LJ Torana 2 door. there wasnt much around our way that could beat it. and then there's there 308's little sister..the diminutive 253. only little but a good little performer once again with the right tweaks made to it.and like the 308 a very reliable motor. back when I was a girl in my late teens I had one in a HG Kingswood. try as I might I just couldnt kill it. got to the point it used more oil than petrol but still started first turn of the key every time. would love to build an FJ restomod with one in it one day if I ever win lotto.
I absolutely love how you can dumb down information to people that are afraid of heights. PS. The concept Torana would have been a tough car to replace. Especially when your dad owned a LJ XU1 and every day since then he went on and on and on and on and on how they where thinking about replacing soul off the car with a rubbish 3.6 alloytec. They are literary the worst sounding v6 engine ever built. (Even worse with a aftermarket exhaust system).
@@ClunieGarage Yeah All good, I watch your videos all the time. I thought I should finally make a comment and tell you how great your information is. Your able to talk science and translate it into english.
He mentioned the LS9 right after the LSA. Should have put a few more LS9 and LS7 motors in HSV. Give the LS3 to the SS and put LS7 in all the remaining Clubsports.
Weren't they the ones that built the barra straight 6, I've seen videos where they get groceries during the week and take it to the dragstrip on weekends with very little modifications?🤷♂️🙆♂️🤠👍oh yeah seem I do remember they may have added a turbo without reinforcing the bottom end because the engine was already a badass lol!😁
Enjoyed this "best engines in holden cars" vid but a bit more research and the Torque Power Big Paw and Little Paw would have to have had a big mention. Viva!
Good day mate the 2001 VX 5.7 litre V8 I think . Because I used to own one of them Calais but not for long because cops took them . And I never get the chance to find out about the engine . Besides that was long time ago
