Great chat and always nice to see Geoff, the better Jeff on WhiskyTube. Sadly so many whiskies are becoming out of reach of budget buyers like myself, but as it was sad, lets be optimistic about the great new stuff coming out! Cheers.
I absolutely applaud this appreciation of newer distilleries. We _have_ become complacent, reliant on old, "reliable" brands that seem to be not only resting on their laurels, but pushing the quality aspect to the side in the hope that they'll continue to sell based on reputation alone. Well, that reliance is certainly being tested in the face of these worthy upstarts.
Yay, two of my favorite Whiskytubers combined! Regarding the Tamdhu/Macallan similarities: I had a very long chat with a brand rep (so take that with a grain of salt) at a local whisky festival and he emphasized that they used to be sister distilleries under Highland Distillers and at that time shared the exact same cask program. And since Ian MacLeod is striving to continue the legacy of Tamdhu they still do share a largely similar philosophy when it comes to maturation. And another side note: out of all the brands mentioned I do fear that Tamdhu might be the next one to premiumize it's way out of the reach of non-rich whisky enthusiasts...
@@FirstPhilWhiskyThat’s sounds like the story of fine watches. Rolex are the Macallan and Tudor are the Tamdhu. Sister companies with different outlooks, one for the gentry & other for the normal folk. But still work together on some things and end of the day it’s all about profit. As for flippers they have ruined the watch market for normal folk and whiskey looks like going the same. Money talks no matter what’s being sold. Thank you for giving alternatives for these brands.
This was so dope! Very fun seeing the two of you together! Great exchange, great video, great collaboration! What an amazing time also for having great reviewers like you guys helping the scene and enabling us to find good quality and affordable alternatives! Cheers to that and to you both 🥃🥃 Bonus points for Geoff's Start Trek screensaver on his TV 🖖
@@Soldano999 I was gifted a bottle last Christmas and it’s very good. I’m going to try some different 16’s going back to the early 2000’s and compare one of these days in my journey.
A recent bottling of lag16 (late 2023) didnt taste and smell like it used to be. So at this price I would rather go for 2 bottles of sherried finlaggan
At the end of the last school year the families of my students got together and gifted me $200. (As an aside, this is not normal and was very much a surprise.) I decided to use that money to purchase a Lagavulin 16 and the Ardbeg Corryvreckan. I had just barely over a dollar left over. I certainly don't regret using that money for those purchases, but I'm also glad that I didn't spend my own money on those bottles. I'm enjoying the experience they provide, but I'm also not planning on purchasing them again at the high prices they seem to demand.
I understand your point, but Whiskyfolk often suffer from FOMO when it comes to Springbank, and a bottle like Springbank 10 at $90, or as much as $170, simple isn't a good value; and the same can be said for the rest of their range at current prices.
@@MrChristopherMolloy I could find a Springbank 15 for 72 pounds at whisky exchange store in London, of course I was more than lucky. But this is really not Springbank's fault, unlike Macallan, Dalmore etc
@@cemtuncel1602 Obviously exceptions like that Springbank 15 are not the rule, most would not be able to buy Springbank 15 for less than $300 these days. Nobody is blaming Springbank, but it simply cannot or shouldn't be recommended in good conscious to anyone who cares about their hard-earned money.
Understandable but who is at fault is irrelevant. If it costs way more than it's worth, it's a bad value. Bottom line is I can get better whisky for less money.
@@Soldano999 Longrow REDs have tended to be excellent. As for Springbank itself, it's unique and I generally love the stuff (even with the batch variation), but it's just too damn expensive to drink these days. Benromach is a solid, albeit lower integrity, alternative. And although it's a different style, Craigellachie 13 is every bit a solid as Springbank 10, and Glen Garioch 12 might even be better✌️
None of these reveiwed surprised me & guessed them all, maybe in a different order. Loved your alternatives, and totally agree. Commentary was spot on. Loved the collab !!
What other whiskies do you think are overpriced? Also, don't forget, get 30% off your first box, plus a FREE gift, when you give Tiege Hanley a try at tiege.com/fpwmoney Without the support of brands like Tiege and my patrons, it wouldn't be possible for me to drop honest videos like this and keep my kids fed at the same time!
Dalmore? Specs are usually sub 44%, colouring added 99% of the time, child filtered... the Dalmore 12 Year Old is one of the more expensive Scotch Single Malts in that Age Statement range (along with Macallan).
During my scotch journey I was thinking of buying a bottle of Blue Label because I had heard so much about it. Since it was about $180 at the time. I bought a sample bottle for $25 (what?! ) and I didn’t like it at all. I am glad I didn’t buy the 750 ml bottle.
I don't mind Blue label but it's boring. It doesn't taste bad to me, but who wants boring when there are so many expressions out there that are spectacular, cheaper than this expression and so much better!!
In Australia, hardly any single malt scotch is much less than $100, especially the brands mentioned on channels like this one. As someone who is whisky curious and not rich, it's too difficult to justify the expense. I prefer to grab a nice gin or decent bourbon for around half the price
You are correct! It is crazy how expensive everything is. Lagavulin used to be my everyday whisky, but it has almost doubled in price in two years, so now I find myself drinking buorbon more often.
@@lgiraldo2587 Yes, it's shocking how quickly Lag16 prices went up. I went to Dan Murphies recently to grab a bottle of something. Saw Lag16 on the shelf for $204. Tamdhu 15 is over $150 and Glenfarclas 15 (a personal fav) is over $170. Price gouging much?
Great video, gents. The Springbank thing does my head in. (in Aust. I spied the an 11 y/o local barley for $1000 and the 18 y/o for $900!) Nearly cried. My Springbank alternative is the Craigellachie 13. I love Benromach but to get their natural specs here you pay +$130 for the contrast series or +$170 for their cask strength.
Don’t think it’s fair to put Springbank in this category. I just bought that bottle at the distillery shop for £52 despite the fact they could charge much more. Fair enough Jeff qualified this inclusion but I don’t think he justified it. Plenty of Diageo products that deserve this criticism without including an integrity distillery.
And just how many buyers can get their bottles at the distillery shop? I think they put the blame where it needs to be, which was not on the distiller.
@@kellywellington7122 Not the point I’m making. The point is that it shows that the price the distillery is asking is perfectly fair and good value. Understandably, people get frustrated at the secondary market price but Springbank have nothing to do with that other than producing desirable whisky and the frustration should be levelled at those who are exploiting the situation. I hope it all calms down soon because the last time ,before this purchase, that I even saw a bottle was 2 years ago. Maybe we should all just resist the online hype and embrace the huge range of delicious whisky out there.
Oh, and as I already said Jeff qualified his statement but only after putting Springbank at the head of a list of unaffordable and not worth it whiskies. Pay the retail price and it is affordable, don’t pay flippers and price hikers. Or the big rip off companies like Diageo who are price gouging relentlessly.
Nice one guys, glad to see your take on this increasingly annoying topic. I think Dalmore should be on the list as well :) Well the big names could try to sell to the general public but lucky for us there are some great new distilleries coming up making fantastic whisky which will only get better and better in time. It's such an informed market now, especially with the enthusiasts I believe any new brand will get harshly punished if they drop their quality or specs. Whisky makers should realise we're willing to pay more for quality but not for branding and name. Cheers fellas 🥃
Loved your affordable alternatives! I was fortunate enough to take a trip to Scotland this past spring and sampled Raasay and also came home with a bottle of Torabhaig! Torabhaig is absolutely wonderful as a more heavily peated alternative to Talisker.
Thanks for sharing you're and Geoffs thoughts. And of course I had to react when Geoff called me regarding the Octomore... and I only partly agree with him stating that Port Charlotte is a cheaper alternative to Octomore. Port Charlotte only partly is an alternative. Please add the Staoisha: independent Bunnahabhain and when you manage to pick up a cask strength... Great stuff. Pleaee inform the G-man. Slàinte mhath
LVMH's fomo marketing with limited edition Ardbeg and even Glenmorangies paired with absurdly overpriced Ardbeg 10 as a flagship makes my stomach churn.
Ardbeg TEN is still under $60 (I think?), Ardbeg 5 is sub-$50, and Batch Strength Ardbeg Uigeadail is about $85, so those limited edition sucker-bottles are keeping their core range somewhat affordable in 2023. The same can be said for Glenmorangie and its core range ✌️
Prices in Australia are crazy. Most quality single malts are $100 plus. I'll still grab a Deanston 12 when on special. But I'm now looking into the world of Bourbon.
Yeah, I took a similar turn. I do stock up on the Boozebud specials for scotch and the odd Japanese whisky, but Wild Turkey 101 changed my view on bourbon.
@@markbagworth3653 it's good stuff. Glad you enjoyed it. Give the Rare Breed a go when you have the chance. Pricier, but you can make a bottle and a half out of it if you water it down from the 58.4% ABV that it comes at. It has 6, 8, and 12 year old bourbon in it, too. Really top stuff IMO.
Good chat ) We heave one big problem - whiskys price ! Many whiskeys are very epensive : Macallan , Springbank , JW blue lable ,Octomore ..... Respect Phil and Geoff . Slainte !
Aside from upcoming distilleries, it's also a good time to step away big names from Scotch, Japanese, and Boubon. Macallan knows that as long as they slap in an age in their product, it's going to sell. That's why we're seeing Scotches as old as grandparents cost as much as a car or house (wait until Macallan 100years comr out, prices are going to go nuts). These 6 years, Canada has been releasing some amazing stuff and it's gradually getting recognized. France's hidden gem Arnagnacs have hyper aged stated products at a super affordable price ( French knowe their booze and these guys they keep for themselves).
Outstanding collaboration!! You and Geoff are both so terrific at teaching someone one year into learning about single malts and oh have I learned!! Lol!! I have been watching Geoff's channel for awhile and I am happy to have found your channel as well!! Fabulous information in this amazing video!! You guys rock! Cheers! 🙂
Springbank is beautiful! I’ve been lucky and always got it for the cost the distillery charges. McCallan is far too expensive for what it is. I think it’s something people who don’t know much about Whiskey buys thinking if it cost a lot it must be the best. I still like Lagavulin but it’s getting a bit expensive. Probably get better for cheaper!
I'm a GWhisky subscriber for a while, and now Geoff earned even more respect from me for the LCARS screensaver! I'm glad that Raasay showed up on this list as I tasted it on the festival, it was very nice and promising with lovely people from the distillery present - I even got a bottle!
Great episode! I am a dermatologist and my fav single malt is Macallan. Yes, it's crazy expensive. I buy it about once a year. Also, nice how you worked in some good skin care tips! Nicely done.
I really appreciate the tone of optimism in this video, despite the sadness that some of these classics are out of reach. I've unsubscribed from certain other whisky youtube channels because I got sick of the constant negativity and opining for the good old days.
This may be a bit obvious but when I’m buying a bottle I ask myself 2 questions…. 1) does it taste good for the price?? 2) is there another bottle available that’s tastes as good or better for the same cost or cheaper?? In a nutshell shop around just because it’s expensive doesn’t always mean it’s good
Here's my HIGH-VALUE, All-Bases-Covered Scotch Suggestions: Blended Scotch: Cutty Sark Prohibition Standard Malt: Glencadam 10 Sherried: Glenmorangie Lasanta 12 Peated: Scarabus Batch Strength Complex: Benromach 10 Top Shelf: Craigellachie 13 But wait, I can even go cheaper and still suggest very good bottles: Blended Scotch: Scottish Leader Standard Malt: Glen Moray Elgin Classic Sherried: Glen Moray Elgin Classic Sherry Cask Finished Peated: Scarabus 46% Complex: Loch Lomond 12 Top Shelf: Compass Box Orchard House
Great video & collaboration chaps. I like your channel very much Phil but those adverts/sponsorships have been ruining it for me lately...sorry, couldn't stop myself from mentioning it. Keep up bringing us more of such good content as this video though!
Totally agree with what you've said about young distilleries. I think they are really going to cause a change in the current landscape of what is considered a quality whisky. The legacy distilleries should be worried. Very worried. They are imprisoned by the styles that made them famous, and this stops any real innovation or change with the times. Would love to know what you think of Kingsbarns distillery if you've ever tried before. The Bell Rock Cask Strength expression is phenomenal
Two great channels being great together. At least in California Costco's, you can find Lagavulin 16 for $76. A price I'm willing to pay. But yes, the price is going up and up I only see the writing on the wall at this point. Likely, the last time I buy a bottle, I'll buy two and bid that brand a gentle goodnight.
I was just about to add that here in the states, Lagavulin 16 is actually a really good value in some areas, mainly areas that have Costcos that sell alcohol. Unfortunately, I'm not a big fan. It's good but not one of my favorites. Unfortunately, some of my budget favorites now cost MORE than Lag 16
Very informative, appreciate it! Just came back from Scotland and am learning so much. Did a Macallan experience and their marketing/brand is top notch. Ironically, I don’t own any Macallan but I do have a bottle of Tamdhu Cask Strength. Good whisky!
Good point there about Lagavulin 16. I can recall trying that about ten years back and wondering "where's the rest of it?". On the other hand, Caol Ila does the "peat in your face" thing as well as Lag16...and then keeps going! The finish can take well over a minute to slide through various shifts, ending on a very soft note like the old Luden's honey cough drops overlaid with a hint of oak. For me, Caol Ila 12 is just about the perfect Islay...the peat IS THERE, but it's just the opening curtain for the show.
Good to include Springbank. While it’s not all their fault their distribution decisions do add to the problem. A good example of this is what happened with the PX release last year. Major UK retailers were only given tiny numbers to sell out of an over 10k outrun. It seems they focus on American and Asian markets rather then the UK so are contributing to the lack of supply here.
I bought my dad Port Charlotte 2 years ago for xmas, he absolutely loved it, so I bought another for him last year but he passed away unexpectedly before xmas, I haven't opened the bottle yet but I will do when the time is right.
So glad to find a small store here in South Carolina had loads of Springbank from years ago (2016 to 2020) at SRP. Bought up multiples of the 10, 12CS and 15. Now they get SB Local Barley 10 and Longrow Red 15 but SRP is 150 to 200.
Lagavulin 16 used to be a bargain. Nowadays, it isn't, and it has a lot more competition than it used to. I might order it at a bar if the price isn't too high, but I doubt I'll be buying a bottle. Springbank seems to be somewhat more available where I live than in other places, but it is rather expensive. I recently killed a bottle of the 10 and replaced it with a 15, which I had fallen in love with when I tried it at a bar. I agree about Macallan - it is overpriced. I'm not even all that impressed with it, as it is too heavily filtered and watered down. The last time I had a Macallan, the nose was wonderful, but it was thin on the palate. I'll leave it to the status-seeking rich people and drink something else that tastes better. There is certainly a lot of overhyped Scotch whisky out there, but the situation seems even worse with bourbon. People have gone totally nuts over Buffalo Trace products. It started with Pappy Van Winkle and spread to all of their high-end and mid-level products, and even to some of the basic grocery store bourbon, such as Weller Special Reserve and Buffalo Trace. Where I live, most of them can only be found for retail sale in museums where they are marked up to absurd prices, but for some strange reason, the mid-level ones are reasonably priced in bars. I've tried a few there to satisfy my curiosity, and I have a very hard time understanding why they are so sought after when others that are just as good are readily available and sell for reasonable prices. I see no reason to waste time and money hunting for these bourbons when there are so many other great choices.
I feel i should also mention Arran (a lot of beautiful affordable expressions for the past decade), Glenmorangie (often overlooked but honestely very refined and well made), as well as Ardbeg or Connemara in the peated range. As time goes by, i find myself reaching for Speyside more and more though ;) As for Springbank or Kilkerran, i concur… It is a shame it’s become that expensive.
i am a tour guide in a whisky distillery and one of my colleagues mentioned that new and upcoming distilleries are actually overcharging for their whisky as they are producing their "first batches", with starting prices of over a 100£. because people will buy them and potentially resell them in the future at marked up prices
Evidence > anecdote. Consulting some historical price charts, it looks like Lagavulin 16 has had an 0.75% annualised price increase since 2015 -- which is way below inflation ... soooo, in constant currency units, it's got less expensive. (Macallan 12 has increased 4.84% on an annualised basis over the same period; I'd have to check, but I suspect that's roughly equivalent to inflation -- in which case the price hasn't changed in constant currency units).
i'm happy in the middle price range of Ardbeg 10 and Lagavulin 8. i don't mind spending a little more on cask strengths though like Highland Park's CS expressions.
As somebody who picked up an Octomore 14.1 after trying and failing to get a 12 and 13 series, but trying them at a bar, I was absolutely thrilled. At 220 bucks it was a total rip off/waste after trying it. Would much rather have two different $100 bottles. Also, you guys should have actually mentioned the prices at what you think they're overpriced. I'm still picking up lagavulin for ~90 which I think is a fine price to pay for a delicious 16yo peated Scotch.
First scotch I tried was The Macallan 12 YO Triple Cask. Yes, I went of with the popular guy, and while I like that it was smooth, it didn't really blow my socks off like some reviews here on YT and Reddit said. Not bad at all, but left me wanting for something a with a bit more omph to it taste wise. Next I got a bottle of Aberlour 12 YO, and what a difference. Deep, rich flavours and at a more affordable price. It's one of my go to whiskies now, alongside Aberlour A'bunadh and Laphroaig 10 YO for peated with Highland Park 12 YO Viking Honour at a close second. Also tried the Lagavulin 16, but for me it's a bit weird. I can't really explain it, but something seems to be missing in the flavour. Not a bad scotch at all, but so far I prefer the Laphroaig 10 YO.
I remember buying up plenty of springbank on whiskygalore in 2019 when no one wanted the 21s and 12cs. I still have my longrow single cask whiskygalore quarter cask bottling somewhere. Unfortunately, they eventually pulled the Aussie market from buying up their springbank allocations 😅
For a blended have a go at Stewarts Cream of the Barley from Fettercairn, for a Single Malts being a big fan of Speyside rather than Isles, I personally tend to live with The Balvenies - all of them, Glendronach and the smallest distillery in Scotland; Edradour.
I’m not sure about Lagavulin. At least the 16. It’s been between 85-120 for many yrs now. There’s many individual bottles that fit this category. Talisker 18, Macallan 18, Glendronach 18… basically a lot of 18 yr olds that have doubled in price and then some. I remember Glenfarclas 25 being on sale a few yrs ago in Total Wine for $130. Now it’s over $250. Glendronach 21 went from @$135 to 300 plus. By rule of thumb , if the bottle has increased by %100 or more in the last 2-3 yrs, it’s overpriced and likely not worth the money anymore. I don’t mind spending $300 on one purchase. However for $250-300 I expect to get 2-3 very good bottles. Not one. Just several years ago for $300 you could easily buy two 21 yr olds. Now you’re lucky if you can get two 18 yr olds for that much. Macallan 18 and Springbank 18 are $400 plus each. Don’t succumb to the FOMO.
The last question though is difficult to answer, I feel that the ceiling is falling quality wise, but there are tons of up and coming brands that are keeping us excited about the spirit. All the big boys need to take notice. Can't rest on your laurels.
Kilkerran used to be waaaay better for the price than a Springbank, and I don't think I seen it for sale for more than a month or two. It's up to £50 for the 12 year old though... I regret not buying more when it was half the price.
In 2017 I was diagnosed with neuroendocrine tumors in my pancreas and liver, so I can’t drink any alcohol now…yet I’m still crushed that Lagavulin 16 has become overpriced. That whisky opened up worlds to me.
Good stuff. However, the Port Charlotte 10 is now only 5 bucks cheaper than the Lagavulin 16. Kinda bummed me a bit. But the PC 10 is better than the Laga 16 IMHO.
Tamdhu 12 way better than The Macallan 12 for me. The 12 is one of the best for the price in the Sherried world of whiskey. Also whilst the 12 is boring mass market stuff really love the Glenfiddich 15 Solera to get a 15 at that price if good quality is unheard of
Great video, great information. Although Ardnahoe is yet to release their first batch, hopefully it does wonders to take Lagavulin down. Also, two new distilleries are being built in Islay. What would be your take on Ardnahoe? I visited the distillery this past July and it really looks beautiful and promising wonders.
An episode full of discussions and each of our list is slightly different too. Great work. I think the Macallan should be more overated than Octomore. I've had the Octonore years ago, and I really like the intensity. Personally I think Macallan otherwise should be ranked higher in overrated. I totally agree that Macallan wants to target those super rich, mainland China, and nouveau riche. They've kept claiming the distillery released the " oldest" aged stated whisky " 50, 60, 70, 71 etc. ". I gets to the point " really? Another one?" Or " just wait till they release a 100yr old bottle" . I just find they've lost their sense of direction.
You can still buy a 70cl bottle of Cutty Sark for 948 yen including 10% consumption tax (under a fiver) here in Japan at a chain of Home Centre stores (RU-vid will censor me if I give the name). Bottom shelf, sure, but OK with plenty of ice and soda to address insomnia. At regular alcoholic beverage outlets (even cut rate ones), prices have gone sky high. Jack, the Japan Alps Brit
Just bought a Springbank 10 Year Old Campbeltown Single Malt Scotch Whisky £56.00 from a certain seller in the UK and they have 4 bottles left as of 7-30pm UK time. You are only allowed x1 bottle per household.
Good alternative for Springbank is Campbeltown loch blended malt. For some reason it’s been popping up in my area a lot lately. For $50 it’s pretty delicious and the closest you’ll get for reasonable value these days
Yes indeed! I tried out 5 batches so far. Some batches are really great but be aware that there are huge batch variations. Different batches of this blended malt means different whiskies.
