I still get the same for Naoto. Even though I take a couple breaks from cf here and their, muscle memory with his dash cancels and some pain in the ass combos tends to cause either full tilt against one of my friends who's a Susan main, or just awe from randos.
@@sighanide3282 why so agressive, i mean yeah naoto is WAY more common (i mean, naoto HAS a discord server) but still... he's not easy, so why being so rude?
Imo Rachel is a harder character than Carl. People always say that Carl's execution is hard, but I don't think it's really that hard. It's more awkward than hard. The timings on his combos are actually pretty loose. You are playing two characters, but if you remember you're actually still using one controller, and have the same number of buttons as anyone else, it's really a matter of pressing preset sequences of buttons. Also because Carl's pressure is so ridiculous, you're able to open people up without actually thinking more often compared to a lot of the cast. Rachel I feel has much tighter more difficult combos. The consequences of messing up inputs with Rachel is extremely high. Accidentally using wind in the wrong direction could potentially ruin the match from the get go. It's very easy to completely lose your momentum due to a input error, whereas with Carl you might make a mistake and it turns out in your favor due to your opponent not being able to predict Ada in scramble situations. Also Nine is easy tbh.
How? Carl is one of the hardest characters of all fighting games, you basically need to control 2 characters at the same time, only that already demands a lot of effort in learning and mastering.
I've only just played through Calamity Trigger, which had less than half of this character pool. Yet with the trauma I received playing Carl's story, I just knew he was gonna be number 1
A better theory is that his hard execution input is because... well, he's a high school student, not some warrior that's been fighting all his life, and while having his fair share of fighting experience, its nowhere near the experience of most of the other characters, so it make sense he'd have a tougher time pulling off more complicated techniques, plus it adds variety to the cast that the most "typical main character" is easily one of the hardest characters to play.
Ehhhh. Nine's neutral is insanely autopilot with how ridiculous good her normals are, even with all her tools, there's generally a obvious correct one for each situation (Read: Kunzite) that's easily attainable. Sure it looks fancy, but at the end of the day, her spells are not very necessary for her neutral with her teleport dash shutting zoners out and her normals having insane reach without the extending her hitbox like other characters can have. Sure, some of her tricky optimized setups can be hard, but top level players pretty much never use them because there's no point when you dominate neutral in almost every matchup and go even in the ones that don't, and every single combo ends in some for of oki unless you drop it.
tactless meme Yeah, I honestly don't feel like Nine should have been on that list for the reasons you listed. After a couple of weeks, I've come to the conclusion that my best bet would be to stay the fuck away from her and try to force her to do something stupid (Not a fun time as an Izanami player)
So let me explain from a Nine perspective why she is hard. Personal notes: -Tons of tools, knowing when to use them can be a pain. -Kunzite only hits from close to midrange, it's not fullscreen and has a slow startup. At too close of a range you can jab her out of it and some characters can 3c. -Navy Pressure is from Mid-Far range and is not only her Fatal Counter but has a slow start up and negative on block. People see these moves as godsend but they are situationally good. Don't let a Nine use Kunzite at close range for free. -Normals have great range but they have recovery. Missing a Normal on a approaching enemy is like missing a DP at pointblank range. -Her teleport is not physical invul from frame 1, only projectile invul. If shes teleporting your physicals then your being slow. -Only thing hard to read about her mobility is her instant airdash movement which is a jump>teleport. If she teleports you should be used to her distance by now. She can't immediately do things out of her teleport which is why amy is the only spell she can teleport off from and do anything. -She can't be aggressive unless she sets up oki due to her spells taking too long. A player who reacts well can easily punish her for doing any spells that aren't Raw elements. Character flaws in general: -Poor Mobility -Poor defensive options -Poor Health Basically if she makes a mistake, she can lose the match. Her upsides do allow her to have a even to good MU against everyone, but don't take to the assumption that she is easy. If she was so easy the Jin players would have jumped to Nine on release and stayed. It's fairly easy to body people with nine if they don't know the matchup, it's the same for Litchi. I play both so I know.
tactless me I think he doesn't know because he's probably never tried to play nine. Even a scrub would know that nine is busted and brain dead as hell lol
Owen Womack litchi is easy when you learn how Matenbo works. and how you set your controls make her easier. if you play on pad assign D to R1 and watch how easier she becomes to use...
Nine shouldn't be on the list. 90% of what makes Nine hard is memorizing what combination of elements make which spells. Thats it. A basic memory game. But because of the fact that all of Nine's normals are insanely good, to the point of making things laughably easy for her to punish all kinds of playsyles from zoners to rushdown, she is able to potentially win with them alone and never even look at her command list. Her dashes are SO SAFE that fighting her seems like half your attacks are just whiffing. What throws the most salt on the wound is when a friend of mine who has never even seen Nine before can pick her and keep up with me on the first try. Thats just ridiculous.
@@renatoramos8834 Which ones are that? I'm just now playing Central Fiction...I've played the last entries of BlazBlue but yeah, Nine is interesting to me but I would like to know which spells I should avoid in most cases. Thank you.
@@Arnell_Mediocrity_Long heliodor (the goat skull, water + wind), citrine mirror (fire + wind) and the gravity spell (I think it's water x2 + wind). The mirror and gravity spells have niche matchup specific uses but heliodor outright sucks.
@@renatoramos8834 Ah okay, just completed the first set of her Combo Missions and see exactly which ones you're talking about. Much appreciated and I'll definitely keep this in mind.
Naoto and Ragna's abilities to get grills are reflected in their gameplay, in Ragna's gag reel all the girls wanna smash with Ragna, whereas in Naoto's gag reel he has a hard time smashing. I guess getting the ladies easier also makes your execution easier.
6:28 *nine gets between ada and carl* Carl: you activated my trap card! Or You dun goofed!(hellsing abridged) or I have you now!(star wars) or even Now you fucked! you have fucked up now! Now ya fucked up! now ya fucked up! Now you have fucked up! (dave chappele)
"Why isn't Hazama on this list?" Considering that I actually main this character I can honestly say his learning curve lessened throughout the games. I've been playing Haz since CS Extend. Yes, he is technical. Definitely not a character you can pick up and play. But he is not the most technical to me.
Why Nine is technical: Despite normals that all behave about the same she uses 20+ unique specials, and even if only 3-4 of them are practically used you also should account for the following: Remembering the spells at all times Incorporating the normals to build those spells into your combos Comboing the spells themselves Figuring out how to use her buff effectively and which normals to buff Managing stocked spells with her active spells Keeping the properties of each spell in mind during a match Being able to tweak your combos from string to string for different spells And all of this ON TOP of the typical things you have to think about. In essence Nine plays almost like the equivalent of Dante in UMVC3 or a Tekken character. And we all know how insane those can get. While mastering her spells may be easy, learning the spells is one thing and practically applying those spells in a genuine match is another ESPECIALLY if the opponent knows how to get in on you and keep you from building your spells. Which is another thing: outside of Overdrive if her moves don't connect she doesn't get magic. So you really have to make sure to get those clean hits to get the spells you want.
out of the "20+ Unique specials" you'll probably use a third of them, and outside of Kunzite pretty much all of them have very specific uses so remembering is'nt that big a deal, building the spells you want is;nt an issue either since Nine can Gatling any of her spells into each other and have enough range that you do'nt have much, her buff is'nt exactly mandatory either since she can do well off enough without them. And there's no way your opponent can "keep you from building spells" unless you're lacking, almost every character in the game has to play on Nine's Also, "if her moves don't connect she doesn't get magic"?? You're telling me not getting benefits off of whiffed moves counts as something technical?? also, given her range and coverage, you really have no business whiffing with Nine
People really only Use Kunzite and the Same Element Spells in practical combos. The rest aren't very widely used because Nine really doesn't need them all the time. Even without her spells she's got crazy good range on her normals, Piss Easy Distortion Inputs, an easy Astral input, and while she has no "Dash", Her Teleport is an even SAFER option since you can't get hit.
can you go beyond 5 characters? I loved the explination and everything but even just seeing a list of 6-10 hardest chars would give me a good grasp of the game. Thank you so much for this video, very entertaining and informative.
Me playing BBCF the first time: *picks Rachel* "No this doesn't feel right to me." *picks Taokaka* "No, it just doesn't 'click' you know?" *picks Platinum* "Cuteness aside, I feel like an annoying asshole." *picks Kokonoe* "I just don't 'feel' it, gosh darn it!" "Ok, ok. Main character! This HAS to fit." *picks Ragna* "...no... is there any who fits my playstyle? ...Wait who's that?" *picks Naoto* "Oh yeah! That's more like it!" *picks him again* "I'm really feeling it" *and jet again* "Get dunked on b*tch!" *and again* "I FOUND MY HUSBAND!!!" And by that, a Naoto lover was born.
Thank you for this. I started playing with Bang, Jubei, and Naoto and this kinda gives me some ways to think about my play style, and why my hands hurt when i play naoto
I don't really see why Valkenhyn and Litchi aren't on here, nor do I see why Nine is on here, Nine is definitely more on the easier end of the playability spectrum.
And Hazama definetly deserves a spot on this list as well, while he isn't as hard to play as he was in CP, he still takes quite a bit of skill to get properly.
Being a master of Carl is a grand accomplisment and the game does reward you for that. Well said, as of now Ryusei has become EVO champion with his main boy Carl, you can actually see how unfair Carl is in the hand of Ryusei, but hey, hard work paid offs
Thank You for the info KozenBlaze. I was scared that Izayoi was in there this is because she has some combos that have precise inputs. On the other hand, she has high mobility and a lot of special attacks that can get you in and out. Also Congrats on the 500 subs.
Nice. I want to be a Carl main seeing how I am a Zato-1 main but he seems to be a challenge. One day... Also, yea, Nine is very Technical but fun, Glad that I main her.
It looks like I am the only one mentioning her, but where would you put Litchi? I haven't played her enough to know where she sits execution-wise but she seems rough to learn.
Yeah Rachel ain't no joke. I made the mistake of starting with Rachel back in BBCT. I didn't get good with her until around BBCS released on consoles (and we all know how that went). Haven't played this game but she looks like a bitch to learn again
Kozen, dude, you can't just say that Nine is hard to play when every Netplay warrior plays her and that she has a million tools at any given time, Nine's an autopilot character : You never run out of options because of the way she was made Kunzite is also a top contender for the stupidest fighting game move ever, this shouldn't have the proration that it has One character that is hard to play on the other hand is Bang, that guy doesn't have THAT option which allows him to be good, at best he has many options but they're all average, nail management is also a pain because like the Hazaman, you wanna keep some options but he just so happens to be worse than BBCF Hazama who got destroyed by the Nerf bat Also ArcSys should learn how to not make puppet characters top tier (I'm looking at you #Reload Eddie, little son of a bitch)
Carl was low tier for several games, Relius has always been good, but I'd never call him top tier. Ken and Koromaru are high tier, not top, and I'm not too sure about Chaos. The only top tier puppet characters are Shadow Labrys and now Carl.
You should have played MK9. A unblockable projectile that came out fast and locked the player in place is way dumber than a rock thats +22 on block and can be easily read by looking at her meter/the colors on her side. You should try fighting against a good Nine and learning how to fight her. She's not so easy when she can't spam Kunzite on bad players and win. If people stop being hit by the same overhead non-stop the Nine players will have to shift to more risky/difficult mixup/pressure as well as space properly and not ruthlessly teleport. But since bad players are so easy to dance around with characters who have big normals it's only going to feel like she's easy until you gitgud enough to stop her from doing her noob check stuff.
Rachel maybe be rare but she is very high in the tier list. Try playing Amane who literally can not lose momentum or he gets shit on harder. Rachel has a chance to escape plus effect zone and tools Amane needs good reads,out playing the enemy and keep drill level at a good level.
Story-wise, Naoto took everything interesting about Ragna and threw it out the window. Ragna is an interesting character because his menacing appearence contrasts sharply with his personality. He looks like an edgy generic anime protag, but he's just a chill guy who's constantly broke and likes to cook. Naoto acts exactly how you would expect him to, there's no surprises with him. He's boring. And it's a shame, because if Naoto was an interesting character, I would totally play him because he's fun as fuck.
I m love with tsubaki but i Think She is not good for online, i dont play online,but, i really like her playstyle,She is a good option tô master?(Sorry for the bad english)
wtf is nine doing on this list ? i think someone talked you into putting her on the list . she has a DP . thats a get off me option , she doent need mobility , she beats characters from far all day, easy commands , unblockable spells, spells cover lots of areas on the screen . you will get a thumbs down from people just for putting nine in there also izanami should be in naotos position naoto is easier to control than izanami, it dosent matter how hard his execution is to do.
Naoto and Nine harder than Izanami, Bang, Izayoi (this one is a stretch), Arakune, KAGURA? This is a good joke. I didn't realize microdashes and Instant dashing were something people considered hard these days. As for Nine, she has so many options and safe attacks that her slow mobility is a non issue. Also normals that are longer than things like Hakumen's 4c and safe are gross. The characters I listed above (except Izayoi/Izanami really) have far less options than Nine and are more difficult to combo with and execute. Bang has nail usage and bumpers to manage to get the most out of him and lower damage combos outside of counters, arakune needs curse and is way more technical than nine ever will be. Kagura is a charge character. That inheritantly makes him more difficult than most of the cast as you can't mash out combos. You need to have inputs planned in advance and they are extremely tight. His drives have a slight delay and he is slow and has to zone using his sword. His dp/flash kick is great but it's really his only option in pressure and if you can bait it he's free for a fatal combo. I suppose my definition of difficult is different from most people's but Nine shouldn't be on this list.
Check out Nine at higher level play. Noob stomping and playing against good people require Nines to play on entirely different levels. Shes much harder when her opponent knows the MU.
At higher levels Nine is much harder than she is at noob stomping. When she can't spam Kunzite and chuck out random Cx she has to do way more than most players see on netplay.
I'm in a bit of a character crisis and now I can't decide between Rachel and Car. I have experience with Carl but, I've never even touched Rachel before although, I'm interested in playing her. (I like zoning)
Rachel and Carl are pretty high tier this time around, but damn do you have to work your ass off to get that good. Incidentally I fought several of them in Ranked matches already and the few you do meet tend to be monsters.
except all the best nine players only use 3 or 4 of her spells on average in a match. it doesnt matter if she has a million billion spells if all it takes to win with her is using 2 of them lol.
I'm agree with Killer, Monster, Terrorist Naoto is pretty easy to control, it's like a KOF character (like a Blazblue version of Kyo Kusanagi), i would change him for... Valkenhayn or Hakumen
What made(and I mean past tense) Naoto hard was his extremely tight execution for his optimal combos and the reads you need to keep a strong offense. If your running around doing Ax>Bx>Cx>Rekka and you think that makes him easy well you gotta go hit up the discord. Unfortunately all his hard combos got much easier as of CF2 so he's no longer high execution. Just abit rough in neutral and still requires good reads and call outs to keep a strong offence. EDIT: He did get newer harder combos but they aren't as important as his old optimals.
I only play netplay and my mains are Carl Izanami and Rachel. And I honestly think Carl and Rachel are the two best characters in the game on paper, but online you'll be 10x better off maining someone like Jin or Azrael. Or Mai *Shudder
Why do people keep saying Arakune is hard? Last I checked the only difficult thing about Arakune is doing combos that aren't instant curse outside curse.
A lot of reasons, actually. First of all, his mobility is unconventional, if you don't know how to move with him you're dead in neutral, I'd even argue that his mobility is the most stiff in the cast, including Tager's. Pre-curse Arakune's combos are the easiest part of the character, actually. Execution barrier is really high during curse, mixups, neutral and tech traps are rather complicated since you have to take into account how much Curse you have left, negative edge, bug recovery, etc. You can mash buttons sure, but that only leaves you with no curse and with the opponent on top of you.
Maybe I play better than I think I do. I didn't find him nearly as hard as people put him out to be. Might be just because I play Litchi and keep up with him abit each game. Thanks for the positive response.
Mask The Black Susanoo, I'm sorry but Naoto is hard as balls, man it takes practice to dash cancel and keep the combo. I think that you're just salty about the fact that you lose to Naoto with no skill, which in that case makes evident the fact that you don't know how to deal with Shotos (gotta read that DP if you know what I mean)
Determined2Win Also her execution is harder but her pressure and neutral is more straightforward. I'd call them about equal tbh. BTW this is coming from a Carl main Rachel sub.
I was always a fan of these goofy-ass move sets in Blazblue it's the reason it's become one of my favorite fighting games out there right now. That said I really gotta get back into Central Fiction, I've been caught up with life and other video games and haven't put as much time into this game as I'd like and I've only picked up two characters, the character who's been my main for the longest time which is, Mu-12 and I picked up Mai. I Eventually I want to shake some rust off of other characters I used to play like Hakumen, Azrael, Rachel, Carl, Tsubaki and quite a few others and I know they have new stuff this time around too so I'll have to get used to those.
Well, it's less workload than Zato since you only have to worry about negative edging 1 button as opposed to all 5 in Guilty Gear (at least in old GG). But, it might still take a while for Zato mains to get used to Carl since his summon stays on stage at all time (graned, it isn't always active), and then there's the whole muscle memory thing that might trip Zato players up (or it might not matter to them since their used to negative edging everything).
While playing against people WHO KNOW HOW TO PLAY, Nine has been harder to play. I miss ONE. Normal in neutral and I get punished. Also, Kunzite gets punished mid block string because it can be back dashed by some, tripped, or reacted out of by a long normal. Also, idk where everyone got the high about her dashes they aren't azreals. I can't do an aerial or normal out of the dashes right away. So I normally have to block or I got the right read on how you would react. She is a zoner/bait and punish. Which is already hard in anime fighters in general. (When playing against people who know how to actually play). Tldr. She is easy on netplay/in friendlies. Hard in tournament.
Djnick87 wiffing normals with a lot of characters gets you punished. fuck off with that excuse The amount of execution used on 9 isn't nearly as hard as Izanami, Hazama, Carl, Rachel, or naoto. It also helps that she is a zoner so the onus of winning is on the opposing player.
With her bad start up,low hp, it is a reasonable excuse. Also your opinion is allowd to be different from mine. So I won't tell you to fuck off for yours. I agree she isn't as hard as the others, hell , I don't think she is even top 6 for hardest characters. I only don't agree that she is easy to win with. Which is one of the many things I take into account with a character being hard. Not just execution.
I can attest to being a former rachel main and moving onto other characters. just lost interest in her, and decided to main others. I still use her, and it's easy being able to just out wit normal, non tournament opponents with zoning. her combos have really changed though, making her harder to play without spending time relearning. I met a carl player online. There are other characters I never see online like platinum. He seems easier than Leiselotte from ah3lm. but perhaps a Carl/Leis player can confirm that for me, just because I'm curious, and barely touched either players, and dont really have the desire/time/patience to learn them.
