FAQ: Q: Refrigerators do not run 24x7, moron! A: Yes, I know that. But they CAN run at any point around the clock and that is the point. Because they run on and off all day they will obviously require power during times when the solar panel system is not producing energy and will thus require battery power storage. And batteries are not included with most beginner solar kits that people start with, such as the Harbor Freight 100W kit. Q: Refrigerators don't use 600W, moron! A: Not continuously, no. But they can use much higher than that for a split second when the compressor motor kicks on. So a small fridge that only requires 100W when it is running may require 600-1000W to start up and that load may be inductive, which further complicates the requirements on the inverter. Q: Why can't I just look at a power bill for my energy consumption needs? A: Because most power bills do not give enough information to accurately design a solar panel system that can completely offset your energy demand and give you energy independence so you are not beholden to the power company or if you want to go off grid. Q: I don't care about going off grid or energy independence. I only want a net zero power bill! So my power bill is enough. A: That will work perfectly fine... if you account for the net metering purchase and selling rates AND those rates never change. And that isn't going to happen. Public utilities have proven for many years now that they are less and less willing to pay much for excess solar power in cogeneration relationships and they are in complete, unilateral control over that net metering relationship and can change your rates at any time. But in order to properly do the math, which will be complicated, to achieve a $0 net bill for the year you HAVE to know your energy consumption rates at different times of day. And that information is not available on most power bills. Thus, you will need a device that can data log your real world usage for a period of time so you can accurately forecast.
An hvac system that has parts rated at 30 amps might pull 70 amps for a time during startup. Refrigerator is gonna be the same on a somewhat smaller scale. Giant startup demand to get compressor going, large amount of energy while compressor is running, and then once compressor is off small amount for running fans, lighting etc. It could theoretically run off a 100 watt system if it fed into a battery and every part of that chain was a capable of pushing the absolute max startup compressor amps which while running might be 600 watts but during startup could peak higher for a second. TLDR: Your entire video, meaning yea it's possible but you gotta think it through and plan every step of the way. So while my initial reaction is the same as what you are replying to (um but actually.......) upon thinking about it the point of what you say after rings true, which is that you have to understand all the variables and have planned for them. So I guess what I'm saying is anybody commenting attempting to correct should quit thinking about the compressor vs non compressor wattage and focus on the general message of you should understand your appliances workings while designing a system to make it work how you want
@@LDSreliance Actually yes, some fridges can use 600w. I have a cheap roper fridge that came with the house and once a day it runs a heater that pulls 400w to melt any ice that built up over the day. I first noticed this a couple years ago when I had a back-up 12v system and we had a power outage most of the day. It had a 210w evergreen panel with a 33Ah battery and I could generate enough power to keep the fridge going (as well as the internet) until that afternoon when that heater turned on.
@@kperkins1982 For a refrigerator ONLY I would spec out a 2KW alternator to cover starting loads and 400-500 AH battery with 800 w solar panels. Kenny, you are right on.
@@HamrickCE I would probably set up a switch that turns off the heater until it builds up some ice and turn off the ice maker.... These will cause the compressor to run more...
What we did was start with two batteries and a battery charger and small generator. To learn a little and have something to use for power outages during storms. A year later, we now have an 8 battery bank, 2 generators, 4 inverters, lights, fans, a .98 amp fridge, 1.1 amp freezer and our light bill went from $500 to $600 a month to $70 to $80 a month. We just ordered ten 100 watt panels from Home depot for $109 each. We have two harbor freight 45 watt kits we used for a year. We do not regret buying them. We used coupons and got them for $119 each for learning with. We wanted to DIY this over time and it is going very good. There are great advances in energy efficient technology, and by cutting back here and there, we made great strides so now our energy bill savings is paying for our new panels and laptops.
Very nice! That is a great success story and definitely the right way to go. I always recommend people start with a small, affordabe solar system (a DIY 10 watt kit would be about $75 if you ordered the components yourself) and play around with it and learn from it before you scale up.
i live in PR. after hurricane maria in sept. we all lost grid power and water for over 4 months. some here are still out in march!. i got rid of my conventional fridge that burned way too many volts when it cycled daily and got a simple GE $200 top load freezer, added a cheap digital thermostat and set it to chill between 32-37. my smaller solar set up now easily gets me through the night. this style of fridge is dangerous for small kids as they could fall in. but for grownups its super efficient! cold air stays down at the bottom so you don't lose chill like traditional fridges when opened. simply switching to led bulbs, tossing the microwave altogether and being wary of consumption has gotten me through the crazy hard times here in the tropics. if i have major power tool needs i'll bust out the 2000 honda generator...1 gal = 8-10 hrs runtime.
Problem me having living in puetro rico that back up systems are so expensive vs my average electric bill here at 2 kilowatts per day. I get aee bill monthly. Telling me 3000 dollars. Makes no sense pay 3000 . to use in storms. Vs about 15 dollar electric bill. What save 11 dollars pay 3000 dollars. That be good for others that leave everything running. Me not think that way. Me think if not in the room shut off tv fans etc. Need another option for storms. Solar just for emergency use no way cost effective
8. Don't install solar panels over an old roof that will need reshingled within 10 years. 9. Don't install panels in locations where they will be partially shaded by vents, chimneys, or anything else. 10. Allow sufficient air-space underneath the panels to provide good airflow for backside cooling. Don't mount solar panels 1 inch off your roof. 11. Run you clothes washer, clothes dryer, washing-machine, oven, air conditioner, during peak generation hours. 12. The cost of panels keeps dropping, so don't buy premium 25 year panels. But don't buy the ultra-cheap panels either.
@Booboobear2388 I would guess that painting the back of any panels would invalidate the warranty. With how low the price of solar is now, it's not worth it. You won't lose that much production because of heat on the underside, especially in Wyoming. It's overkill. You could add 1 more panel which would more than make up for any loss due to heat.
Hey to all the comments posted by the knowledgeable ones, this guy on this video is trying to educate us in a simple way, don't downgrade him for not knowing it all.
Yep, no one knows it all. And none of the people with negative comments have been able to come up with anything that was wrong, just a misunderstanding of a fridge running 24/7. I should have said it is plugged in all the time and CAN run at any time, thus requiring battery storage which does not come in any retail kit.
Yes but if you do a work sheet where you list your appliances and time used, you get a better idea of your daily usage. Then you have to figure out how much electricity you need to generate to replenish your battery bank daily. Some days you do laundry, dishwasher, vacuum. Some days you don’t. You might watch 3 hrs of TV a night during work week but sports all weekend.
Great video LD, but everyone forgets one of the largest power draining devices. You most likely will not guess it. It is your TV Converter. It uses so much power and it is left on 24/7. Turn it off when you are not watching TV. You will see the savings right away.
I am impressed, let me just say that first. When I saw the title, I was all ready to tear whatever you said 'to pieces' but no, there is nothing you said that any rational person might disagree with. Ok, you didn't address battery banks or germanium diodes but it wasn't entirely the remit and I do appreciate that? You might get the impression that I am indeed an 'expert' and yes, I've spent over 30 years installing 'back-up' systems for buoys, beacons and light-houses. Everything from diesel generators to wind gen's and of course, Solar Panels. For those that know, you have to change the math for installations in the water? I might explain that or just leave you to think about it? The reason I don't explain is because I respect you and would hope and expect that you might figure it out all by yourself? I absolutely love your question and answer 'section', getting the impression you were getting PO'd with stupid replies. Hopefully you won't see mine as such, I certainly don't wish it to be. Pax dude.
Thanks! There are many irrational people out there that love to argue over silly points and this video attracted quite a few of them as you can see by the comments and the FAQ.
Finally I came across a video where the person knows what he is talking about, been getting so annoyed with the people saying " Solar panels suck, the 200 watt Harbor freight panels I bought wont power my 300 Computer" lol Great job!
Not many of us are aware of the "dirty electricity" that gets generated by the DC to AC inverters that are used to make the solar power usable by our appliances. There are health problems associated with having these high frequency transients radiating from the wiring of the entire house. The house wiring becomes like a radio transmitter antenna.
Also something to consider when adding up your service calculation. When adding your heating system or cooling system, only add one or the other. Whichever is the biggest. You will only be using one of those systems at a time so you only need to take the biggest one into account.
Another thing to account for is that the wattage rating is really the wattage you're going to get out of the panel if all the planets align. You should expect about half in average. It's also good to try to oversize the array as best as you are willing to spend because that way even when it's overcast you will still produce some energy. Also you should get a MPPT charge controller and not PWM.
Those are generally good recommendations. However, for small systems it can be more cost effective to purchase another panel than to upgrade to MPPT. So if you gain 50W of efficiency on a small system for a $90 upgrade in controller is that worth it? What does it cost you to get that extra 50W of production another way? That is the question you should ask yourself.
I installed 12 250 watt panels with the 12 grid tied microinverters from Enphase. All this + wires, rails, conduit, cut off switch, etc cost me $5,500. I did it myself 3 years ago. I still have a few years to break even, but in my head, I write it off a long time ago. My electric bill is under $20 a month. I have all LED lights, and energy star appliances etc.
@Tony .w LEDs not good for health, LOL. I'd like to see the proper research paper on that one, not paid for by the incandescent or fluorescent industries lol. Anyway, thanks, I will tell this to the people who always complain that I don't have lights on my bike when it's dark.
@@tzenophile LEDs that are paired with a transformer give of EMF radiation, a risk factor for cancer. A simple google search will give you a massive amount of research. EMF radiation dramatically decreases with increasing distance. A cheap EMF meter can measure your exposure and determine what distance is safe. I bought a meter because I was in disbelief when I read about this. LEDs also give us an excess of blue light, which affects our melatonin levels, which regulates our sleep cycle. That is not an issue in the morning where we want blue light to wake us up, but using blue light at night will increases our risk of cancer because sleep is essential to rebuild cell damage. In other words, sleep fights cancer. It is therefore prudent to look at the light spectrum of LEDS before you buy them, if you want to use them at night. That is also why our phones and PC's have a night mode with a warm reddish tint, like the color of a setting sun, instead of the bluish light that is abundant in lighting of offices and factories, and daylight where alertness is essential as this creates more profitable employees. This industry is slowly recognizing the danger of blue light and is moving towards "Human Centric Lighting." Not necessarily because they care about our health, but because a healthy employee is more profitable! Conclusion: LEDS can be safe, if you know how to use them. Cell phones are another ballgame. ALL cell phones come with a warning that we should NOT keep the phone against our skull. Why? Because the microwave energy can cause acoustic neuromas and gliomas (malignant tumors) in our brain. Military research from the US & Russia have been warning us since the invention of microwaves (used in radar, 3G, 4G, 5G, microwave ovens, smart meters, etc) for about 70 years! Most research that is sponsored by the telecom industry, claims that "not-ionizing radiation safe is, except for some potential heating." The motive? 5G MUST be applied in the entire world for MASSIVE economic profit! The reality? Gliomas have become the #1 cause of cancer (53%) among children and it is increasing among those who use a cell phone for more than 10 years. "More research is needed", according to the telecom, ignoring the fact that most gliomas occur on the side of the skull where one holds a cell phone! 5G will MASSIVELY increase the microwaves that enters our brain. Conclusion: Financial conflict of interest between scientists and their sponsors and between media and their advertisers, is casting doubt on real dangers. Greta Thunberg started her Fridays for the Future movement, asking the world leaders to just listen to the scientists, but we don't for LOL, because it isn't easy when we have conflicting interests.
@@frankbeeckman7575 Seriously, you sound confused. Give me just one scientific reference for your claims. Or a reference to a scientific paper you wrote yourself, peer-reviewed or not. I already asked for this in my previous post, and you, sadly, are not coming off as someone who knows the science. Or ballpark sane, for that matter. And please don't involve Greta Thunberg. She has science down, you don't.
True you need to size your array for your power consumption....but you are being very discouraging....it does work very well with a considerable investment. My farm is off grid. I installed 54 200 watt panels on the south side of my A- frame house. six 80 amp mppt charge controllers for 20 deep cycle 12 volt batteries in parallel. They run two 3000 watt stacked xantrex inverters, for both 110 and 220 volt output. This setup runs day and night, trouble- free, silently, for 10 months out of a year. I have a 8 kw generator for December and January. I need to run the generator for an hour or two daily to charge the batteries during these months. Just not enough charge from the panels during these short days. However, the entire farm is wired, two shops, numerous outbuildings, and two houses. Mid February now, and more than enough power to go around, won't need the generator till next December. Having alot of solar panels will provide enough power generation, even on cloudy days. 25000 invested- but worth every penny. When power off the pole is unavailable this is a great solution. Even my house in town is grid-tied to reduce bills......oh and I live north of sixty in B.C., Canada, so yes it works up north, too, just sweep the snow off your solar panels to keep them working as efficiently as possible. Cheers!
I'm not trying to be discouraging. I am obviuously a big solar supporter and enthusiast. I just want people to have realistic expectations and understand that it takes a big investment to do big things. Not everyone has 25000 bucks laying around to go completely off grid, although I applaud your system and I am jealous. Someday I will go completely off grid but right now I slog it out in suburbia.
Ah, then it sounds like a supplemental wind turbine wouldn't be much help. I ask because where I live there's almost always a breeze of some type during the winter.
TheStavros1001 Windmill at the farm wouldn't help a whole lot....in a valley by a river. My setup in town has a 600 watt windmill on a twenty ft pole, atop of the peak of the house, it helps quite a bit when the sun doesn't shine, but the kw/hrs don't come close to solar😀
I would also add if your biggest fear is power outages, NEVER go "Grid-Tie" because if the grid goes down, so do you. I went off grid to be isolated from outages (not necessarily to be "green"). Either get solar for battery back-up or go off grid entirely. (Off grid = approximately 5-9 years of electric bills up front. That is the cost)
@@josepeixoto3384 the average cost of being completely electrically isolated from outages. - What ever your electric prices are in your current location (home, city, nation).
I partially agree, I think if you have a battery backup you can still use it during a power outage. An off-grid system is probably much cheaper and easier to DIY, especially if you could put it on a patio awning or a gazebo instead of roof of the house.
You're partially correct. I have a Sol Ark 12k grid tied inverter with 30kWh battery back up that runs my house during off solar hours. The Sol Ark can utilize the grid if needed, sell excess power to the grid and even sell excess battery storage to the grid. I wired my solar power into a separate panel box and moved circuits to that box - utility, lighting, refrigeration, HVAC and well pump. I still have the grid available if I need it. I'm waiting to get through this winter to see how the system 'actually' performs through the winter.
Great video. One of things I did before approaching a solar company was to talk to neighbors about what they would do differently now that their system is 5 yrs old. Most common response, buy a system that would do a 110% of my usage. One neighbor told me he has a $290 solar payment, a $110 electric bill, no battery backup for when the local electric company shuts off power in the name of public safety. Walk through all the possibilities and scenarios, then figure out how high your tolerance level is for each area. Keep making these vids!
I spoke to people before purchasing.. not getting many possitives.. but I don't thing they read the inverter and dnot the energy when it's there.. sometimes you have to change your day to and your chores to suit when solar energy is high.
Ah, good advice. I bought some portable solar panels and a power station to experiment. Everything I see in this video is spot on. I’m learning a lot from the small system I bought. First is placement and angle of solar panels to maximize input, which involves a lot a panel movements as the day and sun moves, so must the panels. For a home system where the panels will be static, it takes a lot to understand the sun hours concept. Also, the difference between a sunny day to a cloudy one is huge I have found. I have yet to achieve maximum output from the panels I thought would be achievable so, lessons learned. I have ordered a single solar panel from a different manufacturer and different solar type (fixed vs flexible) to continue my experience. So, after charging the power station, testing becomes the focus. Then you need to consider Watts available AND watt hours. Watts tells you what you can use (fridge, tv, coffee maker) while watt hours tells you how long you can run these things. In one test, for example, my very old but apparently very energy efficient refrigerator runs in 20 minute cycles where it uses about 200w. Since it is not continuous, on a 1000W power station, it only used 10% of the charge in an hour. Theoretically, I could run it for 10 hours but I would probably expect maybe 8 hours before the power station ran out of juice. Right now I am testing all the various appliances in my home and it’s getting easier to determine what to expect with a little math and knowing the voltage and amps a device requires to see if the power station can handle it and for how long. My vacuum takes about 800W so I expect my test power station could possibly run it for an hour. Not that I need that amount of time to vacuum but it a good test measurement. The power station I have has a short lived overwattage up to 2000W which is unusual for portable power stations. What happens is the power station will run for a minute or two at a higher wattage (above 1000W) before it shuts down. The simple test was an electric heater. It requires about 1209W continuously so the power station shut down after a couple of minutes. Curiously, my coffee maker went to about 1150W for almost 2 minutes but then dropped to about 700W and the power station did not shut down. So, I can make a cup of coffee. I need to test a few more times to see if this is a reliable source of power for this appliance. So, learning about expectations and needs is important! If you a relatively small amount of money, that is, a small percentage of the cost of a full home solar power system, I would recommend experimenting like this as well. You’ll learn a lot quickly and be able to determine the best course for a home solar system, what type, how much power your household really requires, etc. I’m not there yet myself but it’s giving me a very good idea of how this whole solar power system will work and determine the costs and value. In the meantime, I have emergency power now for whenever power goes out, at least for a short time. And, depending on the weather and length of power outage, recharging to run again.
Great advice. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I try to drill all of these concepts in so that people have realistic expectations and don't sour on solar. Some people think that makes me a solar hater but that is far from it. I want people to properly size their system and have a great experience with it.
Great, practical advice. Thanks for posting! I was approached by a Solar co while in the Orange box store. I asked what is the best I could hope to reduce my electric bill for the area in which I live. He said max 10%. Now, I am in the construction electrical trade so I am not totally ignorant about solar. While working on a home a month ago, I saw the neighbors roof was covered in solar cells, so I chatted with the neighbor about it. When I asked how much his electric bill has been reduced, he said at this point, nothing.....the Solar co installed the cells right away. The POWER COMPANY has not done their part yet, 7 months after installation......I guess the power company is not interested/hurry in losing money to grid tie systems.
Great comment. Utility companies are in an interesting position with this. I need to do a video on some of this. But basically, they are motivated to decrease peak demand (demand response) because it saves them money on expensive power plants. They would rather have a more level demand curve for power, which is not the real world. Then again they want to make money and have control over their grid system. So they are pretty conflicted with solar and wind.
LDSreliance if the power company hasn't done their thing after 7 months, it usually means the installer didn't do something right and the power company is waiting till the error gets fixed.
Stephen Anderson not necessarily. The local inspectors for the county or city will fail the job however the utilities can take up to nine months just to come out for the first time. If it passes the local inspection there's no reason that it would ever fail the utility inspection. I work for that solar company in the big orange box store and deal with this every day
Will Gawlik I guess it all depends on which utility it is. 7 months would be unthinkable in the Seattle area. Here it is very possible to pass electrical inspection just to have the utility show up with the meters and say, "hey, that meter socket is too high, or that's a CT can and needs a variance, or you need a knife switch on the disconnect."
I would like to add, in my area, a contractor must contact the power company and describe the work in order to get a 'work order number'. Then the work is performed. Then the inspection by a 3rd party, UL inspection agency.. The inspector is given the work order from the contractor. Upon passing, the inspector gives the work order number back to the power company to confirm the job has gone full circle and is good to go.
Jim Hofoss thankyou for the encouragment my electric bill runs 200+ every month yes i have gas heat and use efficient bulbs thats 2400+ a year so it would take ten years to pay for itself how long is the system you have supposed to work if its any over ten yrs then its worth every penny i,m almost 60 it sucks being older i spent my whole life making other folks filthy rich and left with scraps of time for myself so i will figure if i should or should not do it.
Good video! Under #5 bad installations, I would add shading. Most folks don't understand how much effect shading part of one panel has on the whole series string.
Good video LDSr. All makes sense. Something like dodgy deals I know nothing about so I shall not comment on, but I would like to add a few points from my experience. Item 1. It does not matter really if the panel is producing a tiny positive current outside prime sun hours as long as it IS a plus current. Even a trick will run a single LED light. 2. The best power consumption measurement system is a controller or monitor that shows current (pun intended) usage in amps, overall battery voltage and general reserves. My RV has a B12 Battery Monitor that does this job which shows when power draw is exceeding power production, so I can turn off devices as the sun declines. 3. Pre set-up device choices are critical. All lights must be replaced with LEDs which come in 'day light' and softer 'warm light', so you can have separate work and relaxation Ares. They come on immediately and run comparatively safely very cool so safe to touch, last like forever so what's NOT to like about them. 12 V DC TVs and computers etc are commonplace and every time you convert a voltage you lose about half of it's power via the transformation (transformer) process, so choose devices that use the same voltage as your production system with GOOD HD multi core cable. A good PURE sign wave invertor will take care of unavoidable 120V or 240V AC needs. 4. Expectations. I find that judicious (word of the month) use of the right appliance at the right time will get the best out of any solar power system. For instance use cooling devices like fans and cool boxes when the sun is at its hottest and pouring out more energy than your batteries can store. A cool box is insulated and will will keep its contents chilled, or coolier, if you like. Heat in its natural absorbed form on bricks etc CAN be stored via many systems for gradual release over night. That is just a cool box principle in reverse. 5. Installation Placement. I have installed a secondary independent system in my RV where the panel is NOT fixed but attached to the system by 5 Metre HAD lead and plug whereby I can move it around my bus three times on an average day. Set it up at night for next day's rising sun, move pre noon, move afternoon, and repeat set up again at night. I get every erg on offer and the exercise is good for me. Obviously the above may not apply in a non RV set up. 6. Dodgy deals. Something you have taught me about. Thanks. Peace. .
Good points. I agree with most of that. It is nice to hear from another RV dweller using solar. There are a few of you subscribed here and I enjoy hearing about your adventures. If I wasn't married and had kids I would probably be doing the same.
very good advice, I recently had a professional system engineered and installed, one thing that is a must is a way to monitor what is actually happening in real time and I am using the Sense system . very revealing , my water heater is the biggest watt hog and I would have never suspected it was so bad. time to update !
Great vid... 1 comment... you can force control your fridge (or any other appliance) and have them "on line" when you want (or need) with very little loss in performance... become the boss of your energy loss... and maximize your inductive load vs resistive load draw on your system...
Sun hours and load expectancy, it's hard to get this through to people with out them thinking it's all a big con. And when they decide to get a cheap unit online not mentioning any culprits here (cough cough coEBAYugh) and their like "it doesn't do anything" .....
Considering doing another solar home.Built one in the colorado mtns back in the 80's when photovolaic panels were just coming out. Had 5 panels about 30X60 inches for a 1500 sf home. The panels began to charge before sunrise. Charged 4 golf cart batteries and powered everything including a 220 v submerseable well pump. The whole system back then cost me about 3000.00 usd including inverter. installed myself, not difficult.
I run my solar system during the day...not night..I only use my solar at night to run my wifi and internet system..but during the day time I use my solar system to run most of my electric need.
1watt for new solar panel (corrently) costs $0.23 US goverment is changing it to double that, as they say the price is too cheap and will not allow that cheap panels.
I've noticed that the angle and temperature of the panels don't realy matter that mutch Just make sure u place them full south and avoid ANY shadow then clean them once a year and you should be good. I'm running a 3400wp max (20x170wp) installation and in summer it peaks @4200
Very nice! I agree. If you have the ability to optimize the angle do it. If not, it isn't the end of the world. And as long as you have 4-5 inches between your panels and your roof the temperature won't ever be a problem.
@@michaeld2826 - I just use water and a squeegee, Most of the times it's enough. Some soap might be handy on occasion, mostly because of bird droppings. But surely nothing sophisticated! ;-)
Spot-on with the mistakes that are made. We're in the Southern Hemisphere at 38°S. Roof is 28° slope facing true North. Seeing that we have full sunlight for more than 350 days per year I installed a solar geyser which is fully dependent on the Sun. For 2021 there were only 3 days of lukewarm showers, the rest was boiling hot water. Our electricity bill was cut by 80%. Obviously it is not THAT simple in the beginning as we also made some adjustments to our lifestyle 😉
All great basic information. I think the most important step before you buy anything is know how much you are using now and if you can reduce that with more efficient appliances or cut back your consumption.
Thanks for this awesome video! I’m preparing to build my own tiny house and buy the land to park it on and I want to use solar for my power but know nothing about it really so I want to make sure I get it right. I live in New England and the piece of land I’m looking to buy is located in an area prone to weather related power outages in the winter do to the power company being so big that it often takes time for them to get to that area so it would be nice to never have to worry about that by having solar to rely on instead!
I bought a kit with 2 -75 watt panels and charge controllers. I plan on going solar in my next home. This has been a great learning experience for me. I use these panels in my workshop with an inverter and 2 car batteries for now and mostly powering lights with it. (LED)
@@piemasta93 1. not everyone has `$20K - $100K sitting around doing nothing. 2. Some states have code mandating to get a "certificate of occupancy" the home MUST be grid tied. 3. Borrow the money for the system and you may as well call the loan payment an" electric bill"
a fridge isn't consuming 24hours a day the maximum electricity.... the pump is turning on only when needed. lets say 2 hours a day its working "full mode" depending on isulation and usage ... blabla
I agree. And newer inverter type refrigerators keep the compressor running all the time but use far less electricity and never fun at full power. Plus, as i said in my comment, 600W for a refrigerator is insane!
I dont think anything household product consumes full power 24/7. unless you leave a light or bathroom fan on and forget about it. its a good idea to buy watt-meter to grasp the real time usage of a single device and not trust the manufacturers numbers.
My frigde and huge freezer used 70w on average during summer combined (only thing in the house using power and that was what the power meter said)... But they say a frigde uses about 1500w when starting and that has to be considered when using a generator or inverter.
Thanks for the good video. Good information. I started with an engineered solar well system from RPS solar pumps. 400 watts and 48v battery bank. There's a learning curve and this has shown me what to do and not do. The smoke from the California fires (September 2020) has reduced the rate of charge. I had to use an automotive battery charger to give the batteries a boost.
Anyone like myself getting into solar should definitely watch this video. This video does not discourage you from going solar just do your homework before hand. Do the math. Good video!! Thanks
Once the system is on your roof, what would you do if you needed new shingles in say 5 years for some unknown reason? And, if you have a very large lawn, why not put them on the ground on posts if you have the location and no trees or buildings to restrict the panels from sunlight? Thank you for such an informative video.
"Put them on the ground on posts". Disadvantages as I see it. One is the obligation to build an additional structure, to support the panels. After all, considering all things equal the roof would already be there! Cable lengths, bury, etc. Can also be an additional issue once more depending on the particular condition. On my rocky ground... On the roof, production and consumption are probably much closer to each other! My personal vision of the issue is simply area lost to the panels. Something that won't happen on the roof. On the other hand when maintenance time (cleaning, etc) comes by. An installation on the ground makes life way easier... ;-)
I suggest anyone interested in a system, start with their utility bill, it will tell you your typical monthly consumption for each season. Next get a decent amp meter and a P3 Kil-O-Watt meter. The amp meter can tell you not only the amperage (power) something like a furnace fan motor is using, but also (and often more importantly) the peak In-Rush Current of starting that motor from a dead stop stand-still. My furnace fan as an example uses 5 Amps 120 volt (600 watts) running steady, BUT starting from a dead stop, it has for a few seconds an inrush amperage of 12 Amps. This is imporantant to know and understand. The P3 Kil-O-Watt meter plugs into a standard wall outlet, then you plug into it an appliance - say your 40 inch side by side fridge. Let it run a day or so. Then check the meter, it will tell you how many watts were used during those hours it ran. My fridge uses about 600 watts running, uses 1300 watts per 24 hours on average, and by checking with the Amp-meter I also know to start the fridge compressor the in -rush is 6.4 amps but only for about two or three seconds. Make a spreadsheet of all the loads, what they need to start, run, operate for 24 hours. Highlight the ones that are critical, that you need 'no matter what' like a furnace fan or fridge. As LDS says, look at what can be reduced in power - LED lights, smaller or more efficient appliances, etc then start planning what it will take to run things, collect that power and store it (if you store it).
Good vid. I would suggest that installers use a rail system that only attaches under the eave (uses horseshoe shape to go from top to under eave) thus eliminating nail or screw holes in the roof which inevitably result in future leaks and expensive repair and require uninstalling panels to get to the roof leaks.
Actually, while south facing makes sense from a purely electrical production POV the compensation for production under different metering schemes can alter this. For example, I have NEM 1.0 in California and it provides TOU compensation for both consumption and production. Since the peak cost period is during the late afternoon, I have west facing panels which while they generate less power during the day, their effective production (i.e. their financial production) is doubled for the time at which they are optimally aligned with the sun (in the late afternoon). Thus, they produce nearly the same financial production as my south facing panels.
Yes, that is a good point. If you have a north/south ridge on the roof, putting solar panels facing east and west can give you a slightly lower total but a better spread through the day.
Good info I'm out of the US in a country where it's summer like weather almost year round and the Sun is kicking. My reason for going solar is the utilities companies here are notorious for being corrupt and their billing/usage system is ridiculous. They barely even come to read the meters just send random guess usage bills with no accountable to any agencies. And we have about 7-10 power outages weekly some lasting 4 to 6 hours. So needless to say my strategy is to reverse this situation and start having them pay me for my grid contribution.
My panels adjust for the winter. When the sun gets closer to the horizon in the winter, I can increase the angle of the panels. If they are optimized for the summer, then the reduced angle of the sun combined with a reduction in solar energy from the sun during the winter will really reduce the amount of electricity produced.
True, that is why the best compromise fixed mounting position is roughly equal to your angle of latitude. Otherwise, if you can adjust your mounting like yours, you can set one angle for summer and one angle for winter and change it twice a year.
One concern I would like to raise about Solar installations is the roofing materials that the panels are mounted on. (assuming a roof installation). I was looking at all the framing infrastructure used in a typical multi-panel installation, and was quite uncomfortable. I realized that at some point AFTER the solar plant was in operation, the shingle roof would EVENTUALLY need to be replaced. That makes for some SERIOUS extra work & expenses!. I think it makes more sense to install a wind turbine(or 3) rather than buying solar panels. I suppose it really comes down to return on investment, and where you live. For me, WIND & SOLAR are great choices here in Texas, especially WIND... What do most people do in these situations?
You are correct. Solar leasing companies don't really tell you all that will be involved if and when you have to replace your roof. It is in the contract but not usually discussed. Solar leases are usually for at least 20 years and that is about the lifespan of a roof, too. And in Texas/Oklahoma you are bound to have hail damage or high wind damage at some point in 20 years, too. Most agreements I have seen will charge between $500-1000 to have a team come out and uninstall the solar panels and then reinstall them after the roof is replaced.
IMO, the best way to power a home is a hybrid setup with either micro hydro or wind and then combined with solar panels. And I would rather mount the solar panels on a back yard rack system than on the roof for multiple reasons.. if you have the room of course.
John Mulhall ground mount systems are much more expensive than roof mount unless you do a dual axis tracking. Roofs under solar last far longer than roofs not covered by solar since uv rays don't touch them.
Refrigerator running 24 hours? There's something wrong with it then. If you say that you have 7 hours to produce power from a 200w array, and the fridge uses 500 when it runs (which is alot), you can bank enough power to run it. You have 7 sun ours, 1/3 of the day, and your refrigerator doesn't even run a tenth of a day.
The point was that it can run at any time 24 hours a day and will require a battery. In other words, it needs to be able to operate outside of sunlight hours.
You were talking about sizing a system. So peak solar is what is to be considered if no batteries involved. FWIW A few years (OK decades) back, I charted the cycle times of 2 refers and a freezer (always closed door) . Typical refer was 50% 5min on, 5 off. The freezer was also 50%, but 15 min
1... Jamie , due to ignorance , you missed the narrators point ...2... MY fridge runs 24 hours a day , so what ? ...3... You didnt have friends in school did you ?
Thanks for the overview. It is accurate IMHO.I would add a discussion of how to size the battery bank (stored energy and $$$) for the expected load, as that almost sunk my installation.
Great video and tips! Thanks very much! I am considering installing a system myself and these tips are very helpful - especially the angle to mount = your latitude ... that’s huge! I initially considered going with a lease/install company, but you’re right - beware...it is too good to be true! Thanks again!!!
Do you unplug it when you go to bed? It runs off and on around the clock. That is the point. If you buy a solar panel system to try to run your fridge you will need a much larger battery storage component than if it was for your landscape lights or entertainment center because those loads are not used around the clock.
one thing alot of guys do when they sell you a deal on solar panels but don't tell you , you need batteries to go with that. a bare system i run in the shed to charge tools runs one battery. but needs 4 (1000 cca napa cheapest @$100 each) or more to run anything overnight. like a mini fridge
We live in N AZ, and have a 8.5Kwh hybrid sysyem. This is 30 panels (split between the East facing and West facing sides of the roof) with 24 second hand batteries and one inverter (33 Amps). We run everything in the house on solar, EXCEPT the large Amp items (dryer, A/C - heat, stove)... We are on a program with APS where we bank the excess watts, then, as we are on the standard pricing bracket, we get to use those banked watts at any time (if you are on one of the off peak programs, the power co only let's you use the banked watts at the same time as when they were produced - so if max production is at 11am - you would only be able to draw those watts at 11am - by remaining in standard we can draw those watts at night). We run the house A/C for around 1-2 hours in the late afternoon (it was 103 recently and the house was 80 - we cooled it to 75 then turned the A/C off), then use the portable A/C only for night time. This seems to work very well - our last two electric bills were $20 and a few cents. Our highest bill previously was $325. (Average was 175 - 225) Should the power company go away for whatever reason, we have the portable A/C, a plug in turkey oven and a two ring plug in electric 'stove top' and a clothes line outside as substitutes for the large Amp items. So far we have used a max of 30% of our battery storage in one 24 hour period - but managed to recharge before the evening again - despite cloud and forest fire smoke obscuring the sun. The batteries require periodic equalizing to maintain the string output. Otherwise it is pretty much maintenance free.
4:14 I disagree. I would say splitting the panels East and West can be as good and even better in some cases! If you have an east west roof I would put panels on both sides, more on the sunset if possible, if you use more power in evening. And I would put a total of 40-50% more panels then the inverter maximum capacity. This is fine for an inverters so long as you don't reach MaxV. In practice with an east-west arrangement you will still only rarely reach the inverter maximum capacity. What it give you is a lot more power generation spread evenly over the duration of the day, and more opportunity to use it rather then sell it. Also it only costs a fraction more because you keep the same inverter and only paying for more panels and a bit more for installation. Alternatively a SouthEast and SouthWest split is also very good (northern hemisphere), its halfway a south facing roof (maximum production per panel but generation maximum at midday) and east west roof (described above). So if you think your roof is not optimal because it is not south facing (northern hemisphere) then think again. You also forgot to mention that even for a south facing system it is still a very good idea to use 20-30% more panels then the inverter maximum capacity, because the system will only rarely get to its maximum and this is a good way to optimize the system. Also having a higher pitch roof then the latitude can be good if you are doing the east west split( because the sun is lower) or if you want to optimize for winter generation rather then summer, because that is when you spend more on heating.
Sergey K I'm glad you posted that comment because I have an East West roof and I was worried that solar panels would be incompatible with my house. Everyone seems to say that the roof must be south facing but when I look at how the light falls on my roof if I put panels on both sides it looks like I will generate more power than on a south facing roof alone. I think this 'south only' argument is putting a lot of people off solar when it's not entirely true.
@Jan van Coppenhagen true if you want max wh per metre of panel. But if no one is home middle of day then you sell it for peanuts. Panels are cheap these days compared to cost of install and inverter. So max wh per metre of panel should not be driving system design.
An excellent presentation, and very informative, thanks for sharing. I've been planning my off grid estate for over a decade, and I've looked into every conceivable nuance, but even I learned something here. I've never heard about the lattitude angle for the mount. Seems like that would be more commonly known. Thanks!
Well then I am glad I could help! I, too, am planning my eventual off grid homestead. That and prepping is what got me into solar. It is a fascinating technology and really liberating to use when you realize you will still have power when everyone else is down and that if energy prices continue their upward trend you will be insulated from that.
The real task is figuring out how to produce solar panels with higher efficiency. The sun puts out astronomical amounts of energy, we just need to figure out a more efficient way to harvest it. Even with modern solar panels, they will last long enough to get your money back in the long run so it's worth it. Most people don't have the money it takes to put together a system that covers ALL your energy needs, which is where the shady solar panel salesmen come in. Don't get into any contract, most of them are something like 20 years... are they out of their minds? It is possible to start with a fraction of the "end system" you want. Buy the components you'll need in the end and continue to add panels as you save and can purchase more. The truth is that the "powers that be" don't want you using solar or anything renewable. They want you broke and tied down by all your bills and burdens of life. I don't know if borrowing money through a personal loan to build a system would be wise either. The system WILL pay for itself over time for the initial cost, but with interest, fees, etc. it's probably not efficient mathematically/financially.
My system will be a TEN year pay back . I'm in 2 K,so far. 5 12 V. batteries and (5) 150 watt panels,MPPT controller and a 1,500 W. inverter. imgur.com/CdlI4c3
I disagree. Space is cheap and new technology is expensive...just buy more standard panels. If you need more power, buy more panels. If your HOA wont allow it then move.
Thank You for supporting Solar and All that you are doing for World Peace and for our Planet... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Paz.. Namaste .. 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮️ ❤️ 💐 🕊
Good points, thanks. I didn't mind that my array wasn't enough to power consumption, the idea was more to implement a basic system that almost anyone could afford, and see what its capabilities are. This way people can look at my stats online, and know what to expect for the money I paid.
Remember, it only takes 600 watts to start one, not to keep it running. The surge is important but unlike a heating appliance, it doesn't continue to pull that while the compressor is running. 180 watts maybe.
Solar cost per KWh will never be close to coal, oil, gas, hydro, or nuclear. But,,, if you like to fiddle with tech or be different, simply send all your power into the grid and take the reduced electric bill. Don't fiddle with batteries. If you need uninterrupted power, just buy a generator for outages. Over 20 years, batteries will cost a lot more than the panels and inverter.
Some good points but remember that at the winter time you have shorter, colder, cloudy days and that your heater is running hence it makes the refrigerator work longer! You should have a proper pv system that would compensate an efficient inverter and charge controller that would stand up the circumstances!
A refrigerator doesn't care whether your heater is running or not. It does approximately the same amount of work summer or winter because you're keeping the indoor temperature of your house approximately the same summer or winter. It's just that during the summer you're not having to run the heater to keep it that way, in fact you may have to run an air conditioner, but in the winter you are running your heater.
would adding more insulation around a refrigerator reduce its power draw or blowing cold air over the coils say like from underground or under the house basically what I am asking is there a simple way to reduce the Refregerator power draw?
Yeah I bought my Harbor Freight 45watt kit & I love having my computer corner off grid. Laptop, router, satellite dish, lights & printer all free of power interruptions from storms & such. Will do more later as I can afford it, but as I tell people looking into solar" Do what you can & see if you like it, every little bit helps"
Once you get started, and there is a hump to get over, adding to your system isn't that hard nor expensive. My biggest expense was the inverter. It's not unreasonable that it cost $750 but I'm laying in bed with my fridge running, a light on and my ac going on high at 1am. Batteries you can get cheap or even free if you're willing to spend a little time with Epsom salts and distilled water. I don't care if they don't run like brand new, when you have like 8-10 batteries, it stops being an issue.
That's momentary. Inrush current. You say it yourself. "When it first starts." Unless your inverter is complete crap, all that will do is drop your voltage for a moment until the compressor is up and running. Slow start. Oh well.
I'm not an electrician, but I know enough to know that startup power demand is real concern for appliances off-grid. ....and when he says the refrigerator runs 24/7, he means periodically throughout the day and night, use some common sense in your comments.
I am one of the very few people who got all my 5600 watts of panels and inverters for free after the 30% tax deduction, becausei owed a lot of back taxes, 3 dollars a watt for installition ,panels a hair less than 4000$ inverters 2500$ , I installed myself .30% of16800$ is what I owed.my panels were free because of what I owed,this was a accident, learn from it!
Nice Job! Just watched all the videos in this series - very helpful! I'm going to start with a simple project - 10 Watt Solar Panel into a Charge Controller hooked to a battery, and then into a fan to 12V fan to keep air circulating in my shed. I had no idea where to start, until I watched this series. Now I have a plan and simple project to get started. THANK YOU!!!
Start off with the Harbor Freight setup. Have realistic expectations & go from there. I use the 45 watt with 2 deep cycle marine batteries to power my computer, modem, satellite dish, printer, a couple of LED lights & charge my cell phone. Its been a year now with absolutely no issues. I will add to it this year adding both panels & batteries to get my TV, more lights &/ or with any luck my fridge on solar. Don't forget the huge inverter needed for refrigeration.
Have realistic expectations is the key part of what you said. I always encourage people to start out small and scale up later. But don't buy a kit and expect to run your air conditioner or fridge with it.
My advise to all is to do your research, educate yourself as much as you can about how solar works. ( PANELS on a north or east facing roof will NOT benefit you. ) When you get a representative that comes to do an evaluation of your home you can tell if they know what they are talking about. Also read the fine print of any contract before you sign it TAKE your time and READ it !!! Do not sign unless you are comfortable and you KNOW it is going to benefit you for the next 20-30 years. Sizing a system to 110% of your consumption is a good rule of thumb. Some states will only allow a system to offset 95% of your use. Also the Federal Solar TAX CREDIT is not a refund, it is only applicable IF you have a tax liability, meaning you OWE the IRS money. IF not this is something that you can not factor into the reduced cost of a solar system. I have been a solar advocate since 1974 and am happy to advise people looking into going GREEN !!!
Not true about the east side / west side. at lower angles than 30 degrees these two sides are only marginally less productive than south facing low angles. East is also better than west because of the lower morning temperatures in summer
My roof slopes face east and west. with a pretty big section facing south, and even the north-facing section of the roof gets morning sun in the summer.
I was told by a solar guy that west is actually now being considered better than south. Shade does lower temps to some degree but in the desert all directions are hot and absorbed by the panels. As I understand it, solar does not need the sun beating directly on the panels, it needs peak day light exposure from the sun (when the suns energy rays is closest to earth and is of course based on your positioning).
Whoa. Are you saying that the tax credit CANNOT be applied to your total tax bill. If I get a $6000 tax credit from the system purchase, and my tax comes to 12,000 ( w/o considering the tax credit ), I cannot subtract that 6 grand from my tax calculations? I could use some clarification here.
Solid video. I got a 20W panel to charge a 7mAh sealed lead acid battery which powers a tiny camera and video transmitter above our front door. Self-powered wireless CCTV to our TVs and IPcam DVR 😀
Excellent place for newbies and wannabees to start! If someone wants to power an appliance with solar power, they need to first spend $20 on a Kill-A-Watt or equivalent and learn how much power that appliance uses in a week. Our Samsung fridge/freezer averaged 59 watts/hour over a 15 day run, but the actual power varied from 4.1 watts (one small circulating fan running) to 560 watts (both defrosters on - it has separate evaporators for the fridge and freezer compartments). They also need to check the historical weather data for their location to know not only the daily useful sun hours but also the mix of sunny versus cloudy, rainy or snowy days. At the moment, I have a laptop (average power over 24 hours is 13 watts/hour) monitoring my small solar installation. This week's patchy sun and clouds mean that I need 500 watts of solar panels connected to keep up with 24 hours of laptop use (312 watt hours) although the insolation charts say something like 4.5 hours/day of useful sun, which in the best case could be interpreted as saying that one 100 watt panel could handle the load. Those useful sun hours numbers are averages but long term solar design should be for the worst case with maximum load and minimum sun. My system has a 12 volt, 540AH battery bank (six 90AH AGM's, used but test as new for $35 each), two 250 watt panels (also from Craig's List @ $150 each), four 100 watt panels, two 30 amp MPPT controllers (EPEver Tracer 3210a, sureelectronics, ebay). two 2000 watt pure sine wave inverters (ReliablePower, ebay). I'm still tweaking the system and the amount of solar power online varies from week to week. 900 watts can recharge 12 hours usage in one sunny day in winter or summer - patchy sun like this week would require several days for a recharge. My initial goal was a "Wait until daylight" solar generator that would provide essential power (fridge, lights, phone, internet) during a commercial outage at least long enough to avoid setting up a gasoline generator in the dark or during a thunderstorm. Depending on whether the central heat is needed, the "solar generator" can provide power for between 10 and 26 hours - definitely enough hours to "Wait until daylight".
Yes, I have said the same many times on my videos. Get a Kill A Watt or other power meter to find the real world consumption first. Don't just look at your monthly power bill. And make power conserving upgrades before going solar. You will save a ton on your solar installation by simply changing all your bulbs to LED. But other upgrades can be just as huge.
Some good things to think about. But a panel does not "need" to be facing South, nor have a certain angle. By doing a calculation (there are free programs and web sites) you can see how good it works. I have engineered pv systems facing more or less West, with 10 degree tilt that generates 850 kWh/kWp/year
In some markets it’s better to do solar first due to the laws restraining how much solar you can buy. You can only be sold ~95% your power usage in Las Vegas. If you reduce first you won’t be able to skirt the system and get up to 100%.
I agree but if you have a rooftop - that isn't a unwalkable pitch and a good quality roof - the money you save helps justify the cost to even install a solar project or not. most people cant seem to afford the cheapest simple install. or they just don't realize they pay non stop for electricity.
The problem with solar is the cost. Unless you are really wealthy or need to enhance the value of your property I suggest you steer clear. OR if you need to install it use the old fashioned solar with water pipes on a black surface which is what I have here in my flat and I ALWAYS have gallons of boiling hot water. My point is to look closer at your surroundings. What energy are you using inside your property? For example, the 'gas guzzler' of appliances is the large refrigerator which has a motor going 24/7. When I switched mine off my bills went from £160-200 per quarter to £16 per quarter - you see a VAST difference! Try it if you don't believe me. So how do you cool your food and drinks? The old fashioned way with bottled water in a vat of water keeps it sufficiently cold in my opinion. Do you really need ice-cold water anyway? Cool not ice cold water drunk regularly is better for you. (Use a mini bar at the fraction of the cost and more fun.) Further what about all that food that's in the freezer that you never use anyway? Eat it or give it away its costing you a fortune just sitting in the freezer BUY FRESH FOOD and get healthier! Savings example, my friend paid £16k for basic solar. The saving on bills would have taken him 20 years to pay for it and it never worked perfectly anyway. Whereas, 20 years at (4 quarters/bills per year) x 100 say is £8,000 in your (shorts) pocket as you will be able to have a vacation or 2. £100 is just a fraction of my saving so its actually more.
OMG!! "You bought a 100 watts solar panel and have a 600 watts refrigerator, HOW IS THAT GOING TO WORK?? made me laugh... okay okay. Let's continue with the video
We have 4 large rectangular Solar panel in india. This heats up the hot water most days 24/7 once the Sun is out. During the winter months, the water in the panels get cold left overnight, and once the sun is out in the morning, hot water is readily available.
Good advice. Many people don't seem to realise how long it takes to get your money back on a solar system when grid power is cheap. If you're using batteries instead of grid tie those batteries need to be replaced from time to time and the cost of a bank of batteries buys a lot of grid power!
@@LDSreliance I guess the downside of a grid tie system (without batteries) is that your system feeds energy into the grid when demand is low so the power company still has to be able to handle peak demand when the Sun goes down. So they can't downsize which I suppose is the ultimate goal. If you have batteries to power your home overnight then they get charged during the day when demand is low and you unload the grid in the evenings when grid demand is high. I don't know... I think really good, cheap storage is the end game here.
Peak demand never happens when the sun goes down. Peak demand is on the hottest day of the year in the summer. That is the day they have to plan their generation around. Whatever they can do to decrease that one day each year they will spend almost any amount of money to do it because it will be cheaper than building more power generation plants.
@@LDSreliance Yes that makes sense. I didn't look it up but thought I'd read elsewhere that evenings were higher demand because that's when everyone is cooking. But yeah in a warm climate (only) air conditioning in the afternoon would be the highest demand. It doesn't get stinking hot everywhere in the world. Here in New Zealand a hot summer day is 27°.
Too new to really know. From what I read earlier types required special plywood accomodations for cooling but it sounds like they might have fixed that.
Solar shingles have passive cooling. Think of the reduced electric bill to cool a house that does not have a super hot roof in the middle of the day. ;)
I’ve done my research and concluded, that solar panels are not for me. I wanted them just for emergency supply of energy, not everyday usage, but there are so many obstacles, I am living in a small apartment with a balcony that is oriented to the west, and I would need them too big, and too heavy to cover at least some of the energy usage I actually need and that’s no go for me, because I simply don’t have space for them.
@LDSreliance I do not know what you do with your fridge but here/mine it is rated 300W and it realisticly takes 350w, and it only works 5 to 20 minutes in a hour (depends is it summer or winter and how often you open the door). But yes deep fridges are one of the most consuming for solar systems. For a fridge like mine you need 3x 400watt panels for 24h powersuply (overkill but if there's no sun for a week it will still have power). I always have backups, so if you have solar do get atleast a small wind geny too. The higer and bigger the more power you will get. 1 windmill can go up to 10kilowatt, aka small powerplant scale. So a lot of flexibility on what you need and what you can get, but windmills are more expencive if you do not just get the micro(the simplest) one and get the pole yourself. The cheapest atm is still going solar. Hope the wind catches up soon.
