The first rifle I ever fired above my little .22 was a 30-06. I still have that 30-06 which was my Cherokee Grandfather's rifle that I inherited. It's an FN Herstal Mauser 98k. I spent my last teen years in the military, learning to be a sniper. I brought that up only to point out that my training makes me pretty solid as a shooter. That old rifle, now 81 years old, still fires straight and true. It's a tack driver out to 800 yards. There are some designs that are iconic and the Mauser bolt action rifle is one of them. I'll take my old 30-06 over most modern designs.
This was a very informative video on a subject that you have carefully studied. I live in bear country of NW Montana , about 50 miles south of the border with Canada, and my 348 Winchester Model 71 is always in my hand on hikes. Thanks for the video.
Outdoor writers have hyped up so many cartridges through the years but few have proven the get er done staying power of the capable 30-06. Regardless of caliber preference.. the shot placement means everything.
In this vide, I was talking about Brown and Grizzly Bears. But the 30-06 has proven itself for over 100 years for all types of hunting. Thanks for watching!@@yourgodsisspeakingtoyouher4284
When my father passed away, I inherited his Marlin 336 chambered in .35 Rem. My father took countless North American game with that old rifle, including bear. Great video sir!
The airforce moved my family to Alaska (as it did many others) after the Korean conflict, in 1958. Our first home was in Nome, on the shores of the Bearing sea. He had brought his sporterised 30.06. During the summer, polar and brown bears would wander into town and become a nuicance. The elders would come to our home and fetch my father to dispatch the trouble makers. During our 2 summer stay there, he shot 8 polar and 3 brown bear. The elders knew dad had the largest rifle there. Having living here since then, l took his love of bear hunting. Today, l carry a. Sako in 375 h&h. It is a perfect outfit for bears of all stripes. Even a large brown bear will quickly succume to a single, well placed shot.
Lots of muzzleloaders were used in the western frontier and into the California gold country. Later lots of Sharps cartridges and old 50-70 rifles were employed in extipating bears in California. Later the 30-30 and then 30-06 were really used in huge numbers as they were highly produced and available. Interior grizzlies in the american west were capable of reaching massive proportions. In the book "the grizzly bear" the author reflects on an north idaho bear brought to an spokane falls butcher shop on a wagon that weighed on the scales at 1100 lbs. That was late 1800's. Prettt amazing
As I said in the video, I started about when smokeless powder became common, to about 1956, when the belted magnum era started. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
I was mauled on Kodiak while blacktail hunting some years ago. I survived because my partner shot the bear off me with a .300 Mag (did not kill the bear, it attacked another hunting party two days later). The first thing I did after a long recovery was order a .350 Rem Mag built on a Model 7 action from the Remington Custom Shop. This was back before Remington QC slid into the toilet and so it's a beautiful rifle. I never had the opportunity to use that rifle on a bear, but flattened plenty of blacktails with it. I've retired to the Arizona desert and that rifle is now my sons for use back in Kodiak.
Glad you came through that reasonably OK (I assume)! 350 Rem Mag is a great cartridge, and Remington knew how to make rifles back in the day! This video ends at 1956, when the 458WM and the belted magnum era started. Thanks for watching!
@@30-06john Remington actually drew input from Alaska bear guides when designing the cartridge and the ill fated Model 600 rifle to house it. The consensus was a short action magnum that would push a 250 grain slug at 2500 fps. A lot of bear guides still use that cartridge which is why I chose it.
@@kodiakkeith I guided Alaskan brown bear and Yukon Moose hunts from 1989 to fall of 2019 and also did assistant guide work for many other guides. Not once have I seen a rifle in 350 Rem mag in Alaska. Not once had I ever seen a professional Alaskan hunting guide using less than a 338-win mag. I started with a Winchester Model 70 in 338 win mag then at the end of my guiding I was using a CZ 550 in 9.3x62 Mauser shooting reloads I was able to match commercial loads of a 375 H&H magnum. I currently now use an AR 10 I've done in a reloader wildcat cartridge of a 375-300 WSM that is in power the same as a 375 H&H magnum.
@@kodiakkeith Sure you did ! Was that after the 2nd bar room pitcher of beer or the 4th pitcher of beer when the wild old bar room stories really got wild! RU-vid groupie Parrot mouth talking liars aways start with something some old said something or did something because this kind of liar doesn't have any of their own life experiences.
Christina, you are absolutely right. You don't need all the "umpfh" if the shot hits correctly. -I'm sure you can take down a grizzly with a .22LR with the exact correct shot. BUT an excessive amount of extra energy, give you a way bigger window of allowed error, before the shit hits the fan.
The Nosler Patition bullets were introduced in 1948 , something I didn’t know. It’s probably what someone else said in the comment section.. The bullet that everything else is measured by . I do know that Hornady also makes premium grade bullets as does Bitterroot and Norma .
Takes me back to the early 50's. My dad had a Winchester catalog from then with all the rifles and calibers and even the prices. He had circled the Super Grade 300 H&H it was $ 182.50 He ended up getting a standard Model 70 in 270. it was $ 123.00 Today I have the 270 and it's still getting the job done. It is 100% original and will shoot a 3 shot group all touching at 100 yards with hand loads.
A very good summary of old cartridges. I also understand that back then projectiles were not always great quality so the larger width/weight projectiles were more popular then through necessity . Amazing some of those calibres like 45-70 are still going strong. In New Zealand almost everyone hunted with a 303 Lee Enfield from WWII until the 70’s when nicer and affordable sporting rifles became available 🇺🇸 🇳🇿
Yeah I completely agree. In particular, copper bullets are overperformers in lower grain weights due to their ability to retain nearly all of their original weight. Bullets like the A frame, partition, and hard casts are good too.
As an American/USMC Veteran, I inherited Papa's M1 Garand (30-.06), and it is still fully functional and just as 'Effective' today as when he carried it. Just because a platform is 'Old,' hardly means it isn't still usable! :-)
@AniwayasSong While I was in combat as a young guy, your brother Devil Dogs helped keep myself and my team safe. So, Semper Fi, Marine. I agree with you completely. With great shooting platforms, the fact that they're older has nothing to do with their continuing usefulness. Your M1 Garamd rifle is an honest-to-goodness classic, and with the improvements in ballistics today, both of our older rifles are getting better, not worse. Happy and safe shooting to you!
My dads' family used a 40-82 lever action model 1886 Winchester . There was only one larger rifle at that time , a 45-90 , the farmer in the next valley had one . My grandfather said it sounded like a cannon going off .
My grand father also told me , he removed the second barrel , ammo , because you could not hold it up , and he was a Blacksmith and Farrier . I'm told you cannot buy bullets any more for that rifle .@@30-06john
I have had the ability to talk with many alaskan professionals and many state there minimal bore is .338 with top of line projectiles because of bear anatomy and toughness of judging not only distances but also frontal area and penitration causing internal damage.
I am living in Alaska for 40 years, and have my share of Bear stories. This video deals with the era up to 1956, before the .338 Win Mag was introduced. Happy New Year and thanks for watching!
I can confirm that because from 1989 to fall of 2019 I was guiding brown bear hunts. Myself and guides I did assistant work for we all required the 338 win mag was the smallest rifle to be used and that was told to the clients as well. I told the clients the rules and if they refused to fallow my rules then look for another guide because getting killed or injured by a bear because someone won't follow the rules isn't worth any money and no one to call for help is a real bad feeling when the crap hits the fan. With no communications and knowing the plane won't be back until a set time you are screwed if something bad happens. Clients had also been told you bring Barns TSX bullets.
That's now. According to Jack O'Connor Eskimos and others thought nothing of shooting big bears with the .30/30 and other mild cartridges. I fully believe that people kill bears not guns. The person is far more important than the cartridge.
@@bobgordon1754 You claim to be an Alaskan, but you used the total ignorant term referring to all Alaskan natives as ESKIMOS! Why don't you take a few hours to educate yourself about the native people of Alaska by their correct names and how many different native groups there are and by how different then look and different cultures they all are. This only adds to the rest of all your ignorant videos and gives me a person who lived in Alaska from 1989 to fall of 2019 with a single income coming from guiding fishing and Hunting I did for Coastal Brown bears - Interior Grizzy that ranged from SE Alaska to in the National Arctic preserve. I guided Caribou in the far Northwest Arctic when we would see Muskox and in SE Alaska hunting the small narrow streams to lay ambush for Hugh Coastal Brown bears. By the past ignorant video BS you have posted I don't believe at all you even live in Alaska. The RU-vid fad now by ignorant idiots in the lower 48 is now make a video to tell everyone come to Alaska to hunt Brown bears with weak home defense handguns like a 9 mm or 10mm or use a white tail deer gun to hunt these bears is completely ignorant BS as you have done in your own BS videos.
I know it's past your cut-off date but I have a Brown Precision Pro Hunter Elite in 350 Rem Mag that I always wanted to take a grizzly with. It's built on a Rem 673 action. Alas, it looks like it'll never happen. Thanks John!
.348 I am proud to say is still being used to this day in Vermont, Maine, and S.C. as the backup to my Browning 30-06 My grandfather got it in 1937 and interestingly enough it came with a calendar and each month showed the style of "Big Game" it could kill. It went from Whitetail to Elephant!
Mention should also be made of the 30-40 Krag. Before the '06 became popular, a lot of old timers took large bears quite well with the 220 grain Krag cartridge. Most post-ww2 writers seem to approve only of magnums, but the old boys seemed to get by with sporterized Krags, Enfields, and Springfields.
My dad has his grandfather's 35 Winchester. He said that particular rifle has taken every North American big game animal that was around. Great grandad used it for everything and had a friend who borrowed it for bear and elk. Dad and i both have the 405 Winchester. One of the best lever guns and cartridge combos made in either 35 or 405, for bear you really couldnt go wrong choosing them. Osa Johnson used a 35 Winchester for elephant and Teddy Roosevelt used the 405 for lion.
Out of the lower 48 states, from what I have seen Montana has more grizzlies than Idaho Wyoming & Colorado combined. However my Grandfather and dad always talked about the 348 Winchester for bear on their Alaska trips being the cats meow. nice job on the video keep making us more!
I live in MT Griz country. They are mean AF. We never venture into the backcountry with a handgun, 10mm is my fav and a long gun. Typically .308 or greater.
I read alot of old text about old timer hunters in AK using a Remington Model 8 in 35 Remington old Grizzly. I think mainly because it was the first semi auto, but when people like Elmer Keith and Townsend Whelen write praise about it, I'll listen
Well, there was one hunter that was a judge in Alaska. He used the Model 8 in 35 Rem and killed many Bears over the years. He switched to a M1 Garand in 30/06 when they became common surplus after WW2. In my readings, he was the only person to use a 35 Rem. Thanks for watching!
We lifelong Alaskans swear by a 338, like the Win Mag but my personal choice is the 338-08 or 338 federal as its known today. Mine is a M77 All Weather. I also use a 303 No 4 Mk 1, and of course the 44 Mag lever action as the truck gun. Sears Model 53 in 30-06 is my go to Cabin rifle, but for Kodiak and surrounding Islands I'll take my Winchester Model 770 in 300 WM with 250 Gr Barnes Round Nose slugs for those pesky Ursine with 180 Gr rounds for the blacktail deer. In AK always remember to carry a sidearm appropriately chambered for your area.Cheers everyone!
I have shot a lot of game over the years here in Alaska with my .338WMs, great cartridge. I kept this video to just before the .338WM was introduced. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
Moved here (and been here) since 1958. K love my 338 wm. Bought it in 73. Have 38 bears with it now. Many moose and many c'bou and countless sitka deer. Like your thoughts now that l am 68 ;)
Kind of odd to use the .458 WinMag as a marker for some perceived change in cartridge preferences when it is based on the .375 HH which was and continues to be very popular when a big bore rifle is required.
I chose that date and cartridge since that was the beginning of the "belted magnum era" which introduced the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 264 Win Mag, 358 Norma mag and many others. Thanks for watching!
Never hunted a Grizzly just Black Bear local to Tennessee here, I’ve used my 30-06 but taken most with my 308 and 7mm-08 did get one with my crossbow and this was a great video my friend 😀
I appreciate your opinion. Have 38 bears to my credit and have had the Sako M 995 TRG W/ 20" for 25 years. Have killed 4 bears at less than 16 feet, including one at point blank. At 68 years old, I would say anything can go wrong with any firearm. I trust mine and my handloads well enough. Thanks for your advice, sir.
Thanks! In this video, I quantified which cartridges and guns were used, from all the books I read, with a bit more emphasis with guides, bush rats and experienced outdoorsmen. This is for the beginning of smokeless powder, to about 1956, when the belted magnum era started. I tried to keep my opinion out of it. That said, I am living in Alaska 40 years now, I know Bear guides and Bear defense instructors. I have killed a couple of Bears. Thanks for your thoughts and stay safe!
Following WW2 the 30-06 became the most popular prior to that the 30-30 level act action introduced in 1870s . Teddy Rosevelt favored the level action and the 405 was built for him and he considered it his favorite lion gun
I have a few 30-06…my favorite all around caliber. I also have a few 303’s, 35 rem’s in 336 and 7600 carbine , a 300 ultra mag, and a 375 ultra mag. Think my goto while walking around would be my 6.5 pound, 35 Whelen pump in Remington 7600 carbine. Might not be the most powerful of the group but I could dump some follow up rounds into a bear REAL fast if needed. It’s also the lightest and most compact of the group and equal to the 35 rem 7600 with more spank. Nice video of the older straight wall rounds! Shot a few black bear with 45-70 govt and they ran off like they weren’t hit with broadside boiler room placements. A 180 grain Scirrocco out of my 300 ultra mag dropped a nice bear its tracks. Took a 7’1” decent black bear with a 200 grain partition out of my RUM. It made it a good 35 yards before it expired with a broadside boiler room shot placement. Shot placement and bullet selection imo holds ALL the cards when trying to stop a bear in its tracks. Just aim between the eyes and hope it hits your mark.
@@gilbertgurule5395 Well, that depends on the situation and rifle being used. For hunting using a 30-06 type cartridge, and the time, I would get the double lung, upper heart area first. A good bullet should damage both lungs, the Bear will run, but die fairly fast. For a Bear charge, then head shot, miss that and will still hit bone. If using a larger cartridge, then a upper shoulder shot will probably immobilize and kill the Bear. I hope this helps, and thanks for watching!
hosea sarber noted Alaskan game warden favored the 30-06 with the 220 grain corelokt bullet for brownies and 180 grain pointed corelokt for general longer range use....he also liked the 160 grain ...270 load as well.with the old Barnes bullet....surprisingly he was dissapointed with .375 h&h bullet quality stating they did not set up well on brownies..sarber emphasized pin point bullet placement .....and was the best there was at it...
Yeah, there were a lot of black powder cartridges used. This video starts at about the beginning of smokeless powder, 1894-ish, and those cartridges that made the transition to smokeless. Thanks for watching!
I grew up with my Dad's bring-back 7.92x57 K98k Spreewerk Mauser. It's taken a few Michigan deer and now resides in my stable. First high-powered rifle I shot, it's with me here in Colorado altho not my top hunting rifle- i don't want to drill, tap and restock what is rapidly becoming a pricey antique.. I have another couple Mausers that have been gun-smithed into good hunting rifles (before I owned them), and they're up there with the .30-06 using European or my own handloaded hunting ammo... (American-made 8mm Mauser is down-loaded to not a lot more than .30-30 levels, for reasons of their own...
Take a close look at that .348 Winchester. With similar weight bullets, it kind of acted like a .30-06 in a bigger bore back in its era. Flat nose and round nose bullets cost it range, but at reasonable iron sight distances it did a pretty decent job at slapping down heavier game. And being a lever action also made it attractive to a lot of hunters.
I live in Sampson county nc, biggest black bear there is. A 30/30 is those guys favorite choice. Some 44 mag, but the get CLOSE to those 750+ lb critters
For myself, when I'm out in ANY 'Apex Predators'' territory (Bears, Mtn. Lions, Wolves/'Yotes, et al), I always keep my .12 pump action shotgun, and .44 magnum revolver on me/within instant reach. Truly, the best deterrent/early warning system I've ever known is my trusty dusty Doggo. I know for a fact he's kept-away at least three bears, and likely more (Given the fresh scat/marks discovered the next day), and there's just no better way to stay 'Safe' out there. LOVE the 'Histories' of those who were brave enough to first venture into the 'Wilderness,' and how they managed to survive it (Or even if they didn't)! Thank you! ;-)
Surprised that the 30-40 k was not on the list especially with the original 220gr load surplus kreg rifles and the 1895 winchesters and the single shot in it
.30-06 with some fairly conventional bullets of 180 to 220 grain managed to do a fair job on some pretty big critters based on decent penetration with reasonable expansion . None of those loads in factory form were what you would call overly fast, so the bullets weren't overly stressed on impact; that contributed to decent penetration with what we would now call "soft" bullets. You toss in modern premium bullets in high performance handloads with modern powders, the old .30-06 can deliver terminal results a bit beyond it's legendary reputation. The gap between .30-06 modern loads and the old original loads for the .300 H&H magnum is now pretty minimal.
There was a federal judge based in Juneau 1950s. I understand he exclusively used a Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle in .35 Remington for all of his bear hunts.
I have a friend who uses a 35 Whelen on deer. I watched him shoot one day and the opposite side of the deer looked like it moved out a foot when he hit it. It dropped without ever taking a step. I tease him now about it he nearly split it in half. But for bears I’d use it.
In Oregon, around 1900'a near Florence, there is a stuffed 9' grizzly shot by a Winchester...1940-45 30-30 lever. It was shot by a female. I used to live in Oregon. I thought my GOD, it was huge. Pioneers did have runs in huge bears.
Yeah, I do practice a bit. The lever action is my 450M, I had a larger recoil pad installed. The bolt is my Ruger paddle stock 338WM, I only shoot that with a thicker coat! Thanks and Merry Christmas!
@@30-06johnI know just what you mean I have two Ruger paddle stock rifles 300 winny and the 338 win mag and both are plenty stout on both ends of the gun just subbed to the channel second video I've seen
@@30-06john you bet I'm a very avid hunter shooter and collector never been to Alaska doubt I'll ever get the chance but I've hunted around the lower 48 in different states for big game
I’ve seen an original cap & ball rifle that was marked .45 calibre, but it was actually .65 calibre. I asked the owner and he told me it was brought to California in the 1850s and the original owner had it rebored and re-rifled to the larger calibre to handle the California grizzly bears.
Another good - older - book on the subject is "Keith's Rifles for Large Game" by the late Elmer Keith. Book by a contemporary author is "Dangerous Game Rifles" by Terry Wieland.
I ran across a 33 win in grate shape a few years ago in a pawn shop in fl. The story that came with the gun was the original owner was a professional bear and panther hunter for bountys on them and also for when the state was dealt with the screw worms. A parasite that would kill live stock. At the time if you could not dip to treat the animals the stock officer could kill it. Thats back when fl was a free range state. The guy bought that 33 new in the 1900 teens and was his working rifle and hunting rifle It was in good shape for the age and had half octagon 1/2 round barrel Had buck horn rear sight but the front was interesting it had a flip up ivory bead the guy said best guess was for a night sight. And I have read about some British hunters using a ivory bead for night sights for big cat hunting in India. I wonder if it was the same thing here for panthers. Don't know if the family got it back or not the shop had closed when I next came by. He had some original cartridges some full metal patch ( fmj) and a jsp with a lot of lead showing. Whish that old rifle could have told its story
As I said in the video, I was not going to include the 30-30, but I kept reading stories of it's use on Grizzlies. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
@@30-06john Here in Northern Canada 30-30 is used for all game including Grizzlies. Modern Bullets surely help too including Barnes 190, Buffalo Bore and Nosler.
I have all the calibers shown, they are all excellent if used properly and on reasonable sized game. I do have a .35 Whelan Improved that is a dandy, but then I'm kinda in love with anything that goes BOOM! At 72, do you ever grow up?
The 35 Whelen has regained popularity in Mississippi. Due to diminishing of hunters in Mississippi and an expanding deer herd, it is now legal to use a single shot rifle with an exposed hammer of at least 35 caliber during primitive weapon season. However it destroys a lot of meat.
Would like to see you do another one if you have the time or inclination. On the old big bore black powder cartridges. 45-90 thru the 45-120, 50-90, 50-95, 50-110 and 50-140 @@30-06john
I was hoping to see comments on what was used before the .45/70 of 1873. The Marlin was shown as an 1871 model chambering the 45/70 which I find curious as that was a military cartridge introduced with the Springfield of 1873. Was the 1871 model originally introduced with other chamberings prior to the 45/70 that allowed introduction of the 45/70 to it?
That is actually a Marlin 1881 that I show and mention in the video. From what I have read, Andrew Burgess made some lever actions for Whitney Arms before going to Marlin and creating the 1881. Thanks for watching!
Okay, then the model of 1881 was the model being referenced, and Marlin beat Winchester by five years with a lever action .45/70. I had never heard of an 1871 Marlin.@@30-06john
John, it looks like you forgot the 50's like the 50-70 and then the 50-90 which were black powder cartridges but they packed a pretty good wallop. The 50-90 was the premier buffalo hunters choice to take down those massive animals. I would think they would work for either grizzly or brown bear. They were also loaded with smokeless. Later on those cartridges were extended out to 50-110 and all the way to 50-140, but not by Sharps who stopped at 50-90. If you had a reason for not including them what was it?
In my readings, I did not read of any uses of those cartridges in the time frame of the video, from the beginning of smokeless powder, to the beginning of the "belted magnum era". Of course they would work on Brown/ Grizzly Bears. Thanks for watching!
Can't believe you left out 38 -55 I know alot of black and grizzly bears have been took with this caliber it hits hard up to 150 and some cases 200 yrds.
We need more power today; the bears today are pumping iron, taking steroids and a lot of them are on crack,the other day i saw a Grizz with tattoos all over his body and he had a shaved head.!
*Those 19th and 20th century hunters who hunted black and grizzly bears professionally for a living were excellent shots because the Darwinian selection process was brutal. The average, mediocre, and poor shots didn't live through the selection process. Neither the exact ball diameter of their patched ball percussion muzzleloading rifles, nor the caliber of the bullet in their cartridge rifles was as important as where each shot landed when they pulled the trigger. When I lived in Alaska a lot of the native Alaskans whom I met, which is to say those born in Alaska, carried bolt-action .30-06 rifles loaded with Remington Core-Lokt 220 grain soft point bullets; and they didn't feel undergunned.*
In the old days, the cowboy days, I think the 45.70 cartridge was the go to cartridge. Marlin used to advertise their lever action rifles chambered in 45.70, .444 Marlin as "Alaskan bush guide guns" that could kill a Kodiak bear. I also agree with the claims that the 30.06 will get the job done, however I dont think 30.06 was an oldtimer bear gun. With good shot placement the simple 30.30 Winchester can EASILY kill a black or brown bear. A grizzly bear maybe but Id prefer something more powerful myself.
@@30-06john Very true. I read a MACV SOG guy named Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver got one state side, Marlin lever rifle in.444 Marlin), brought it with him back to Vietnam. Said he enjoyed the psychological impact it had on the NVA during SOG cross border raids into North Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
I am living in Alaska 40 years and have had my share of Brown Bear standoffs. A warning shot is a valid tactic, I don`t think I would do two. This video time frame is many years before the 10mm was invented. Thanks for watching!
30 caliber guns are the top of the small bores 8mm guns are the start of the medium bores 375 guns are the start of big bores that qualify as " Big Game Rifles" the 416 caliber guns are the most common size used. 458 caliber guns and larger are stopping rifles, 47 caliber guns top the list Yes, a stopping rifle is designed to stop charging wounded big game, and you can hunt with it, but most people don't.
In this video, I show what was actually used for Grizzlies from beginning of smokeless powder, to the belted magnum era. You are talking about African classifications which is not used here in North America. Thanks for watching!
