TOMCATS!!! Those are much better sounds, but have a listen to this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1_pCeQzul24.htmlsi=xYU0u2RDOuwK7aTC This is probably the most realistic dogfight the F-14 ever filmed (which is sad if you consider the adversaries and the plot of the movie!). The “Zeroes” obviously aren’t real, but everything else is. Real flying, sounds, etc. Even the weapon shots were real. That was a real Sidewinder, and the real sound of a real Vulcan 20 mm cannon firing real bullets (at aerial target drones, of course). The F-14 pilots (who were real F-14 pilots, not actors) obtained permission to conduct and film a live-fire training exercise for this movie.
See, the problem with this one is I know that some of the sounds are from the arma 3 minigun The other sounds are from the actual dylan m134 minigun…. Do one with the real sounds
One thing not discussed in the video is that filmmaking is inherently about sight marrying sound. In this case, with the presumption of only a small percentage of the audience knowing how actual high rate guns work, the choice to be visually accurate with tracers means aural accuracy would seem incongruous to uninformed viewers. The chugga-chugga machine gun sound visually matches the interwoven tracer imagery better than the (Ben) brrrrt sound. So, filmmakers hew towards chugga-chugga (which is totally an official technical term, trust me bro) which is both visually congruous and historically cinematic. Personally, I think it’s time to move on from legacy film sounds and just be accurate, which will advance the cinematic language lexicon. [vinyl record scratch] …but Hollywood doesn’t care what I think.
@@AngeloBarovierSDmovies have conditioned so many people to how things are "supposed" to be, I suspect many would react negatively to more realism. Someone always has to be the first and test the reaction.
@@ahwhite2022 Yar. The cinematic language is both a good and bad thing. It makes storytelling more efficient and more evocative but it can also create misperceptions. While I’ll defend many artistic filmmaking choices, what bugs me a bit here is all the realism being embraced and promoted by the project. If ever there was a time to re-educate the viewing public about little details like the correct sound of a military apparatus, this movie was it! I guess we’ll have to wait for a Michael Mann air combat film!
I think the realistic canon sounds are far more intimidating than the standard machine gun sound. It truly sounds like the gun can shred you apart instead of turn you into Swiss cheese.
hell yes. I don't know where that thesis came from that a standard ground MG sounds more intimidating. no evidence. i suppose the only argument is that viewers watching it could be so dumb that if they heard the bbbrrrrppp sound they wouldn't understand that its the gun and maybe theyd think its some sort of mechanical clanking or engine predicament. but in every circumstance that high cyclic rate sounds way more terrifying
@@foxtrotnine2504Should just have a quick scene earlier in the movie of them test firing the cannon somewhere, it'll prime the audience to understand what the noise is in later scenes. Doesn't take much investment with CGI.
Absolutely, I don't get why he says the original sound wouldn't be felt as powerful enough by the audience. Watch the "splash the zeros" scene from Final Countdown, listen to the Tomcats firing and tell me that doesn's sound mighty powerful.
26 дней назад
@@andreasu.3546 what a movie ! watched it at least 10 times
there's a scene in Act* of Valor when the rescue boats come around the corner and just unleash all of their guns, actual miniguns with actual minigun sounds, and it sounds incredible and evokes the right emotion. there's definitely room for making the gun sounds the actual sounds, at least in my humble civilian opinion
After reading that comment, i remebered the scene and watched it again... Instant goosebumps as soon as the M134 fires. The M2 .50 BMG sounds almost boring in comparison. How on earth someone would finds the buzzing sound of a minigun less intimidating is beyond me.
Act of Valor. and yes the "hot extract" sequence is making action scenes in much more expensive films look daft. and yes real minigun sound is much prefered.
The fact that movie makers seem unaware how much people love the a-10 brrrr is kinda insane, but it might also be why they use the slow firerate sound cause they might think its exclusive to the a-10
Solid point I hadn't considered and probably true. I know that A-10 sound (just from videos lol not from experience) but I think if I were being honest that would probably bump me at first (i.e., take me out of the movie) until I realized it probably sounds like that in any combat aviation setting and not just an A-10 before going back to enjoying the movie even more for using a realistic sound
To be honest a brrrrt sounds more intimidating than a chunky sound because a chunky sound gives you the impression that you can escape it due to the slow fire rate whereas a brrrrt gives off the impression that there's no escape if you don't evade before the other plane has a clear shot on you
this is the reason that the mg42 was so effective, double the rof of allied MG meant the sound coalesced into 1 almost continuous stream, this made people nickname the MG with whatever saw or cutter name they can think of due to sounding similar to those tools
the chuchuchuchuchu allows a building of tension, to the audience each subsequent round feels more impactful than the last, which is also why we often see it paired with machinegun fire slowly approaching the protagonists. The BRRRT absolutely feels powerful, but it doesn't have that effect of being able to ramp up the tension. if they went the whole mile of doppler-ing the effect while using a perspective that moves relative to the aircraft, they could get that back again, but that's too much effort and too much math for those lazy bastards. And admittedly, there is a thing where the audience can have fatigue over overly distinct sounds when it comes to the emotional response it illicits. The famous 'Jericho' siren on the Stuka divebomber (German, WWII) has been recreated in the same way so many times that it fundamentally isn't the foreign unsettling sound of psychological warfare that it was in WWII. That's why in the film 'Dunkirk', by deliberately straying away from being faithful in terms of the sound, intentionally creating a more grating and unsettling dive-bombing noise actually made it a more faithful representation of what the characters would feel in the moment - hearing a noise never heard before, designed to increase their panic so they'd make worse decisions and even if they lived would remember it strongly and distinctly, making them more likely to over-react in the future as well.
Also, forgot to mention but there's also often a deliberate choice made to distance certain Trigger-Risk sounds to prevent triggering someone's PTSD. Very few movies have decent sound design for gunfire in part because of that - nobody wants Grandpa to react to the latest marvel movie by flipping the table for cover and calling out his dead battlebuddy's name from (insert war here).
As an aviation enthusiast, I find hearing a, "BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT--HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM" much more frightening than a (thud/cluck-thud/cluck-thud/cluck-thud/cluck-thud/cluck-thud/cluck) 🙃
@@bru123kama Nobody uses that one, nobody! It's the Hawg or Hog! Period! Otherwise the F-84F would be known as the Thunderjet and not known as the Hog or Groundhog, due to it's terrible take-off performance, it literally didn't want to get off the ground until the end of the runway, leading to jokes about the "sniffer device" Or the F-102 being known as Deuce, instead of Delta Dart. Or the F-16 being known as Viper...unless you are an Ego Jet driver! ;) :P Or the B-52 being known as BUFF or Big Ugly Fat Fucker Or th A-7 as SLUF=Short Little Ugly Fucker or SLUFF (Short Little Ugly Fat Fucker) F7U Cutlass as Gutless (a play on it's name because it was underpowered) The F-117 (actually A-117) as, Hopeless Diamond, Whobblin' Goblin, Cockroach, Roach, and Batplane The F-35 as Fat Amy and allegedly Panther. The XF-85 Goblin as Bumbleebee. The F-4 Phantom II as Double Ugly, and in German Service as Eisenschwein (Iron Pig), Fliegender Ziegelstein (Flying Brick) and Luftverteidigungsdiesel (Air Defence Diesel) or Luftwaffendiesel (Air Force Diesel) due to the smoke plumes. The A-6 Intruder as Drumstick, Pregnant Guppy or Whale (KA-6 Tanker variant) The F-104 Starfighter as, Zipper, Sled, Missile with a Man in it and in German Service as Witwenmacher (Widowmaker) or Erdnagel (literally earth nail or earth anchor, often translated as lawndart.) I've also heard Starfaller (does this need translating?) and Starplumpser (star flopper). Oh there is that evil german joke about it: "How do you get a Starfighter? Easy, just buy a patch of land and wait!" (Auf deutsch: Wie kommst du an einen Starfighter? Einfach, kauf dir ein Stück land und warte!" The Fouga Magister in Swiss Service as Mäusetöter or Mousekiller, due to the high pitched engine noise. I think the only exception to the rule are when the names are actually cool or kinda bucking the establishment, like with the F-8 Crusader or the F-14 Tomcat....a name that the Navy hated when it was proposed about 20-30 years earlier for the Tigercat, due to it being based on "feline promiscuity". And Carrier crews still called the F-8 the Gator! (Short for alligator, look at the nose and you will get it, from a Crewman's perspective. The Tomcat has a few funny nicknames as well, namely Turkey, Bombcat (bomb capable versions), TomTurkey or my favourite Peeping Tom (for the TARPS Equipped Tomcats that can do Recon.)
… followed by a realistic round counter. Probably another reason why the sound is what it is. When your full ammo drum is emptied in less than eight seconds, you can’t draw out the drama.
That is honestly probably the real reason. Actions scenes are always drawn out for suspense purposes. Can’t really do that when there is so little ammo.
Those 30 or so rounds would have been gone in a single blip of the trigger if they actually recreated it like the real thing. But still, that's no excuse. They could have easily have made the counter read 500 or something if they wanted to draw things out and still have things sound more true to life. I don't get all the excuses everyone makes for these filmmakers. They have absolutely no excuse for these terrible effects. I don't think average moviegoers will think "that machine gun didn't sound chunky enough". Just use the real sounds instead of making your effects team look lazy and incompetent.
@@robbyyant6213 These films are made for the masses. Not professionals of that field. 33 to an average person feels tight. 500 feels like a lot. Even if realistically it isnt. The average viewer wont know what it means. Same with the sound, we're used to a certain gun sound and tie out emotions to it. Another sound will not ewoke those emotions in a regular viewer. Go watch documentaries if you want realism
@@robbyyant6213 So, if the directors went that route (500 rounds), the first trigger pull (brrrt) drops it to something like 250. The character says something like "we are running out of options" while seeing only 250 rounds remain. The camera focuses on a very fast and light trigger pull it drops to like 50 rounds left. And then one last brrrt ending in clank - clank - clank and the look of panic on the characters faces. That would be a far better scene.
Professionals, like yourself, in the field of sound, should start using the realistic sound effects for this type of weapons. They sound truly terrifying.
True. I just feel like directors and producers are in their own little world and think they know better than most people. It’s not really a democratic decision lol. So yeah that’s why we get shit like this.
There's a reason why the MG42 was to terrifying to allied forces and was nicknamed the Hitler's Buzzsaw. The sound of bullet fire merging into one is terrifying. It's just a matter of making it loud and deep enough. You made it sound 5x more terrifying than what sounded like a mere Lewis Gun. A proper 6000rpm 20mm of death.
Oddly enough that’s a gun that doesn’t get done well either. Only a few movies and games get it right, the rest don’t seem to be able to duplicate the speed
@@jonlawrence6338 Videogame developers also don't make them right not only due to sheer ignorance, but also for "balancing" reasons. They don't know how to balance them otherwise, and so they make fast firing weapons fire slower and/or do tiny damage. Typical example: the Vector. A weapon that is unfairly fast and flat shooting, "balanced" in real life by being terribly unreliable and sensible to dirt and complicated to maintain. But in a videogame, it would be absolutely broken if it worked like in real life.... and so they ALWAYS turn it into a moderate to high recoil standard smg. Which is ridicolous because they could just.... stop putting Vectors in their game, instead of ruining them? Nobody is forcing them to put that specific, problematic gun in. And yet, they can't help it.
I'm not sure if the original sounds good to the average viewer with no weapons knowledge, but to me it sounds plainly dinky. like they're firing mp40s at each other.
@@xavierh.5102 The average viewer with no weapons knowledge would turn to the closest aviation nerd friend to ask about the sound and, as the explanation on the M20 Vulcan progress, the jaw would slowly drop.
It’s better to confuse the audience and make them ask “why did the guns sound weird”, because then they can go home and look it up on the internet and become amazed at what real firepower sounds like. But no movie wants to take that gamble?
omfg you nailed it, i mean like, my stomach hurts ++ I love the sound of the material being torn off the target. That bit is sorely missing in the original
Realistic cannon sounds in my opinion would be a win-win with audiences. The aviation enthusiasts would be thrilled to hear the iconic brrrrrrrrt sound of a proper fighter jet's main cannon, and the casual audience would probably find the sound of a weapon that isn't the standard ratatatatat more menacing and foreign
This was the design idea behind the Tripod sounds in War of the Worlds (another Tom Cruise movie lol). I was in the theater when I watched it, and I heard the Tripod horn for the first time, I felt like my stomach was falling out of my ass. It was a sound I'd never heard. Sounds we've never heard, or rarely hear, are terrifying and really get your attention. Another example would be in The Grudge, the throat clicking noise. The sound designers really dropped the ball on this gun sound. Or maybe the director made the call. Either way, ball dropped.
@@krow7402The sound design in war the of the worlds is phenomenal, I regularly use that movie as an example. Many of the tripods’ noises are organic, the didgeridoo and throat singing comprise the horns
Honestly, the realistic BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT is way more terrifying. You know what a machine gun sounds like. You know what damage they do. This is infinitely faster, to the point of being a drone rather than a discernible sound. The only thing that would have been better would be the WWWAAAAAoaoaoaoaoAOaoaooaoaAOaoaoa, and the BEE-BOO-BEE-BOO-BEE-BOO, BELELLELELELELELELELELE of the warning system. Of course, there's no need to imagine this. Someone on RU-vid already did it and it's GODLY.
The only flaw with adding the RWR tones is that the RWR wasn't on for most of the fight. Only after Rooster figured out how to turn on the radar did they get the RWR, and they used the wrong tones. The tones they used were from the F14B, the one in the movie was an A
Yeah, hearing gun sound its so fast that its almost smooth seems more terrifying as it means it shots so fast you cant escape, thus the stakes is actually higher. They can just artificially make the sound volume bit higher with bit more pitch and bass to make it more bombastic in theater and even on home speakers. But hearing machine gun sounds just doesnt feels weighted to me, as if these jets or any other bigger military hardware just didnt didnt have bigger gun to pair with.
I love your mix of bzzzzz with just a small layer of individual thumps, the real sounds are for sure menacing, but they are pure mechanical perfection with no emotion whatsoever, rather than giving a "this is intense and badass" vibe, it just gives me a "holy shit don't put me anywhere near that" vibe, which to me seems worse. Another good example for me of unrealistic sounds in movies is metal structures bending, like bridges, there's almost always these super loud creaking noises, it's really cool, and gives weight to the collapsing structure, but in real life you get none of that, you would barely hear anything at all.
The real cannon sounds are way more intimidating than the fake ones. You can hear the action cycling in the movie version. The reciprocating action that a Gatling gun doesn’t have. It’s distracting tbh. But then again F-14s don’t have ailerons either and the digital artist gave it some 😂
M61 cannons and all gatling rotary cannons (including the original) all have reciprocating bolts. They are essentially a cluster of bolt-action rifles. If the bolts were very corroded and not oiled, and the motor severely slowed by this, then perhaps the Top Gun sound and fire rate would be accurate. But it was an ultra cringe moment.
Something I love that you didn’t even mention was the sound inside the cockpit. No one thinks about it, but even in a trainer plane that’s still 1100 hp you’re sitting behind. That’s a lot of sound so you’ll hear it through the cockpit, your helmet, and your ear pro
I think your sounds are a MAJOR improvement, but still close enough to movie expectations that a general audience wouldn't be turned off. I also think some of the confusion on Hollywood's & general audience parts is assuming every bullet is a tracer (bright red-hot trail), instead of the understanding that machine guns generally only fire 1 tracer per 5 shots. We hear a brrrrrrr sound because each bullet makes a sound, but visually we only really see about 1 in 5 shots. In a movie we're generally going to expect to see a tighter correlation between what we're seeing (the tracers) and the sound associated with that visual effect (the bang). Thus we end up with movie machine gun effects being: bang & tracer, pause, bang & tracer, pause, bang & tracer, pause, etc
LOVE IT. I especially love that you have the low frequency components when the viewer is in the cockpit, and more high frequency components when the viewer is outside. And, good call on not delaying the sound for travel time. It may be accurate but it's jarring.
Couldn't disagree more with the producers with this one. The original cannon sounds sounds much more intense then your average 50 cal. The aerial scenes in Maverick are a masterpiece and already dramatic as it is. Adding more realistic sounds make the scenes much more intense and chaotic especially the last F14 dogfight scene. Look up If Top Gun: Maverick had better gun sounds. That clip in theaters would of been insane.
This was a major improvement of the sound. If they ever do a directors cut or rework of this movie, they should just steal your sounds straight from this video, lol. It's really good!
There's an amazing video here on youtube of an F-16 doing a strafing run in front of a crowd at some gunnery range. The cannon sound is so intense it's like the sky is being ripped in half. It's otherworldly and extremely intimidating. I'm sure anyone will be able to find it quickly if it's still up. That sound in particular needs to be the standard for fighter jet movie guns.
Dude I like yours WAY better, your choice of sound was better too as you chose one recorded from the cockpit so it has all the airframe resonance that goes with that. Nice work keep it up
You recreated the gun sound, but you completely forgot to add the bit-hing Betty voice screaming ALTITUDE, ALTITUDE, PULL UP, PULL UP, SHOOT, SHOOT. You also forgot the RWR sounds during the missile lock scenes, the missile being fired sound, the explosion of missile hit sound, and the F-14 shaking sound when pulling high Gs. You gotta watch days of DCS gameplay by Growling Sidewinder and real footage
The F14 didn't have Bitchin' Betty. Also, one thing I can defend about the original scene is not having RWR tones... because Rooster couldn't figure out how to turn on the Radar, and thus the RWR. But even after he got those working, they did use the wrong RWR tone, because the one they used was from an F14B, the one in the movie is an F14A.
@@avroarchitect1793 And Topgun back in the 80s created an up tick recruitment for the Air Force The name of the movie is based on a Fighter Pilot school even if the story is broadly unrealistic So no, the movie isn’t Plane Pron It is Fighter Jet ASMR
The original sound designers seemed to opt for one cannon sound per tracer round instead of taking into account there are multiple non tracer rounds in between them. Your sound is far more terrifying as it implies WAY MORE projectiles on the way. Shame Hollywood leans away from the realism.
Glad to see someone else mention that the bright streaks you see are the tracers. I believe the typical ratio is 1 tracer to 5 standard rounds but can be anywhere between 1 tracer to 3-8 rounds depending on the team.
Tracer rounds: It looks like they got something right with the tracer rounds not being 'every' bullet. However, particularly for a weapon like a fighter jet cannon, there is a reason why the phosporus is not ignited in the barrel. It would burn up the barrel. The rounds should be ignited well past leaving the barrel. These are far morve sophisticated (and expensive) rounds than a tracer round that is used in like an infantry machine gun, where they can swap out the barrel (because they are not in mid flight). Insightful video! Another element is that you want the audience to engage to the point that they start diving into the details like this 🙂
Do you have any material i can read on that subject? I was under the impression that every tracer round in existence was ignited by the same propellant charge which expels the bullet from the barrel. In my experience (granted, only with the M240, M249, and M2), tracers also only really become visible after 50-100 meters of flight, just because that compound is slow burning (compared to the propellant) and it takes a moment for it to fully ignite. My training said that delayed ignition was intended to help obscure the origin of machine gun fire at night, and nothing at all about tracer rounds increasing barrel wear. While my training certainly could have been intentionally missing information (gotta keep it dumb enough for the guys who got a 30 on the ASVAB, after all), i would think that "use of tracers shortens barrel life" would have been something they included, as that has sever practical implications to the use of the weapon.
being someone who is a player of war thunder, the proper high rate of fire is way more impactful than the slow rate of fire. the slow one is like poking holes, the fast one is cutting you in half from top to bottom
That was BEAUTIFUL!!! It was even better when it was just the cannon. The stress in the moment, all sounds fade ZIPPPPPPP, silence ZIPPPPPP and the round counter still matched the sound. You are an artist
The real sound. They used the real sound in Final Countdown in the F-14 v Japanese Zero scene. Another change would be the gun counter. The F-14A (the one Maverick stole) has a 675 round magazine, that is reflected on the gun counter as 675 and on the HUD as 6. Since it fires at about 100 rounds per second, each 1 second squeeze of the trigger burns 100 rounds on the counter and 1 in the HUD
Dude, hearing a real A10 avenger cannon fire is like hearing the siren from a war of the worlds tripod, or a Reaper from mass effect. It's terrifying. You don't want to be anywhere near it.
I absolutely notice this particular trope in movies and it bugs me every time. I feel like using the proper real-world sound would have done a lot to make this film more believable and engrossing. Having actually heard the real-world recordings of the actual weapons, this trope immediately pulls me out of the action of the film. Your conclusion here is exactly my thought on why filmmakers do this - they're anticipating that the audience has been programed to understand gunfire in a particular way and that they might not perceive the weapon properly if they were to hear how it actually sounds. In order to counter this, more films should include the proper sounds and the perception can be corrected. Maverick would have been the PERFECT medium to start this trend! Your edit was great, I liked how the volume on the gun effect was turned up so when it fires it seems abrupt and startling. It makes the weapon sound dangerous as it should to convey the extreme danger of the situation.
The "real" sound is so much better! The movie SFX sound antique. Your SFX edit makes it sound up to date and appropriate for a modern aircraft. There is zero loss in dramatic affect.
Holy crap this is a well-done video and you sounds **chefs kiss**. I can assure you the real sounds are more intimidating, especially if youre the unfortunate one on the other end of it heh.
Excellent job, i also noticed the strange sound of the original movie. It looks the sound of maybe a Browning.50 cal. But the sound you put on is very scary, it looks exactly what it is. A insane rate of fire. At least in WW2 fighters they had 12 -15 seconds of non stop auto fire. And all the 500 to 1000 rounds each gun were fired... its very fast. Perfect video.
You mixed the canons very well so that your sound still packs the punch needed, but that 'otherworldly' sounding machine guns make it even more threatening. Well done!
WHOA! That is amazing! I mean, this was an edge-of-the-seat moment in the film anyway, but even on the small screen that brrrt comes across as an electric "holy crap" moment. And that's partly due to the fact that the viewer is expecting to hear dakka-dakka-dakka, and then in comes this huge BRRAP which drives home just what a diabolical piece of kit a high-rate 20mm cannon really is. Bud, if you'd been the sound guy on that film I think I'd have left teeth marks on the cinema seat in front of me...
So glad you pointed this out... it makes no sense, the real sound of these cannon rounds cracking followed by the report of the gun itself is totally terrifying and way more dramatic
Great video, man. And awesome setup. Keep up this work. I adore Top Gun: Maverick. It's one of my go-to movies. You think you got it spot on. It's Hollywood. I LOOOOVE the sound design in the film though. Especially the flares popping off in the finale. There's a video about the sound design (I'm sure you've seen it). It's so interesting. I love everything about this film (unrealistic or not).
As someone is more on the side of being a boot kid, these sounds are awesome. I also enjoy the faster more realistic rpm which adds alot more tension to scene as mav not only struggles to dog fight against a 5th gen fighter but also fight against his own machinery. Super well done love the vid
Can affirm that high cyclic rate cannons sound absolutely terrifying. My 2nd tour to Iraq I was on COB Basra and we had several CRAMS, when we took in coming rockets the sound of those CRAMS was surreal. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR then these streams of red tracers arcing through the sky chasing the rockets. It was a hell of a light show.
Honestly I love your version more! It gives way more this feeling of modern warefare and modern guns. Imo the individual gun shots make it all sound cheap and less dangerous
“These guns are shooting 100 rounds a second” I can't even imagine the speed, ballistics, and mechanical engineering that go into such an action. It's baffling.
Anyone wondering why there was a clip where you hear a "bzzt" twice, it's because the rounds are supersonic. The first "bzzt" was the sound of them impacting the ground and target. The second "bzzt" was the sound of them being fired.
this is far better, realism can bring drama and that brrrrt would scare anyone as much if not more than the original", if you put the effort it always pays. and that redesign is proof, great job ! love it !
I feel that ur version is a happy balance for the average movie goer and for someone who doesn't know too much about the guns or planes, so nice job. Sounds great. However, the actual IRL sounds are mental and sound amazing. It's quite intimidating and truly shows the rate of fire. Something satisfying about hearing it. Regardless, great job. It's a subtle change but keeps that emotion.
