+PkKirby876 I heard that Sakurai was talking to the pros after the Invitational and asking their thoughts on balancing and stuff. He seems to really want to make Smash 5 a lot more competitive and is putting in serious work to make it that way.
M2K may be the best person to give an opinion since he played every Smash games past Melee competively at high level so if he says something he probably have a reason to do so.
Basically : Bayo is gonna take the stake, Pikachu is broken, everyone can glide toss like Megaman for some reason, Sakurai is a beautiful and lovely person to give us such a magnificent game once again, now don't ask him anything ever again.
*raises hand* Okay, but can we get Shantae, Rex+Pyra and Richter Belmont tho? I promise I won't ever ask for anything ever again, ever. I know I said that about Wolf but this is the LAST TIME. I promise.
+DatrykSenkrad It was a joke. Wobbling is dead in smash 5. Nana does a taunt once Popo grabs someone, and she doesnt stop till he throws them so you cant desync. Also, the 1 second no double grab mechanic is back from Smash 4 so Chaingrabs arent a thing either.
Sonic can no longer shield out of spin dash, significantly reducing his camping capabilities. Also, the universal nerf to dodges are gonna hit Sonic the hardest because his dodges were so damn fast.
Puff is buffed by the way: -Increased range on ALL normals, aerial or otherwise , except for UpAir and D-tilt -Rollout ends sooner -Smash Ultimate's increased hitstun across the board, along with Puff's low knockback growth on her fast aerials, allows her to gimp most of the damn roster for free at low to mid percents -Rest hit box (potentially) bigger, with the updated game engine decreasing the likelyhood of a phantom Rest to nearly non-existent -Heavily benefits from Directional Air Dodges and Dash Cancel in too many ways to list (besides Dashing Rest ) But most importantly... -PARRY CAN GUARENTEE REST AGAINST ANY MOVE WITH LAG IN THE GAME
How low % does she kill at though is the real question. It seems like Ridley might be the new puff anyway. Sweetspot a down B and you get a free stock and you don't even get to punish it when you respawn.
I don’t get melee players when they say negative things about ledge trumping. I feel like Melee would be better with ledge trumping, like M2K said, it adds depth.
In Melee you already have comparable things/ e.g. if you marth up b or firefox and someone is already on the ledge, they get knocked down, so there's essentially some element of trumping. For them to grab ledge to let you die, they are taking a huge risk, because you can sweet spot recover anyway, or you can use it to gimp them etc. etc. If you could additionally ledge trump in melee, it would make recovery too strong, stocks would last too long, the game would be slower paced. It just isn't interesting to me as a viewer that the person who's now in "defend from punish game" mode should be able to turn it around instantly at no cost. Melee is about winning neutral, and then punishing as hard as possible. This would take out the risk factor in losing neutral, which would make the game less interesting. It would especially benefit floaties - the super slow characters that remind us of smash4.
The problem with ledge trump is just that its not good enough. Most characters can't punish afterwards. As a mechanic it could be awesome but it needs to put the player into a much more vulnerable position to make it more of a 50/50. That said most characters snap to ledge way too easy in smash 4 and they've tweaked that already so maybe it will improve ledge trump
I don't feel like it adds more depth, but it's just a better mechanic in my opinion. Ledge hogging is just a kind of broken mechanic that makes skilless kills easier to get, there isn't anything inherently hard about it, especially for the reward you get kind of like bayo and cloud in sm4sh :^)
Zero is so... Just no. But MANGO??? WTF I feel like I've NEVER seen this calm and collected side of him holy shit. Way to put it about the wavedashing and reasonable wants from the game damn.
Look back at one of Armada's previous videos.(can't remember which one) He says that he was sitting by Sakurai and Sakurai was even questioning it by saying "hmmmm?"when he saw Bayonetta kill Ridley that early. It could be both though.
parappathegamer that’s what i assumed as well, but even if that was why, i feel like bayo is still getting nerfed because people are wishing it into existence just by claiming that bayo was the reason why
The only thing that they are going to do is make this game imposible to play like meele they are just making things worst and we are goin to end whit a meelee 2. saying "nerf this" "buff that" my question is do these people have fun playing the game? Or they just see these game in a competitive point of view?
+Billy Strmiska Honestly, with the increased mobility in Smash 5 already, Wavedashing isnt even really needed. It would help with mobility a bit still but, not nearly as much as in games like Melee. Its not really necessary in Smash 5.
Eragon7 yeah I’ve been hearing that more and more. I’m hoping that stands to be be true cause from what it looks like wavedashing right now is very sloppy.
Im strictly a melee player and can confirm wavedashing no one really cares, we just want faster gameplay and more movement options like ssu tilts out of dash for example
A lot of people are asking for Bayonetta to be nerfed. But they don't realise is that she's already been nerfed. Heel Slide is a lot more punishable, most of her aerials have either worse knockback or more end lag, Downward Afterburner Kick no longer auto-cancels, Witch Twist is slightly slower(?) and Witch Time, while still an excellent move, isn't as safe anymore. That Bayonetta vs. Ridley matchup between Plup and MKLeo was heavily misunderstood.
bayo's almost at a good place where she's nerfed without sacrificing the feel of the character, but leo was abusing a bug with her jumping to get that easy kill combo and it's definitely something Sakurai will want fixed now.
Justin Hurowitz MKLeo might have been showing that these bugs that made Bayonetta too powerful still exist, so Sakurai can change them. Bayonetta will still be an amazing character when the full game releases. Best in the game? Eh, it's hard to tell, but I think it's unlikely. She'll definitely be top 10 though.
I highly disagree with M2K's opinion on ledge trumping. 95% of the time players recover by going for the ledge. In melee, recovering was far more difficult and required far more mix ups, increasing variety and playstyles. You're not going to see any Mangles in Ultimate.
Just because it was difficult doesn’t mean it requires mixups. If you’re far enough away from the ledge in Melee, all you have to do to edge guard is grab the ledge. And “far enough” isn’t very far. Ledge trumping means you actually have to take the fight off stage, and get back.
The latter part of that sentence still describes Melee. In fact, that happens far more often that Smash 4 thanks to the amount of hitstun and lack of priority and range on every single up B move. Ledge trumping *decreases* mix ups. Are you recovering high? Go for the ledge. Recovering low? Go for the ledge. Are you close and still have your jump? Go for the ledge. It's such an obviously simple mechanic implemented by Sakurai to decrease frustrations in recovering for casual players. Melee and Smash 64 have players jumping off stage to edge guard far, far more often than Smash 4. Because there are more mixups and 64 and Melee, it's imperative that these options be reduced quickly, meaning the punisher goes off stage. In Smash 4 it's nigh pointless. You can't stop someone getting to the ledge the vast, vast majority of the time.
The added shield stun would be great as long as little mac personally gets a slight shield stun nerf to compensate. His dtilt and jab are already safe on shield as it is.
fuck that, bring more characters up to higher tiers, more viable everyone is, more diversity we might see at tourneys. And everyone will be more fun to play
Sakurai saw bayo do an instant kill at the invitational and shook his head in disgust so that already shows she is getting nerfed. And before you say "Well maybe he shook his head from how sick the combo was" no...who would lol?
Someone please recommend to Nintendo the option to create a song list for custom stages. It would be a nice change for more casual fans who put a lot of time into creating and playing custom stages.
So now that you heard the pro players feedback, I wanna hear your feedback. Which characters you think will get changed, either with nerfs or buffs in SSBU?
Cosmic Poptart universal buffs for every one through movement mechanic upgrades, individual buffs for lower tiers, nerfs for cloud, bayo, and maybe diddy.
Sakurai said there are tons of changes and we will discover them as time passes. I just want my boy Nessie and my girl Palu to be better. That aside, Bayo is definitely getting nerfed, Cloud I don't think so, I heard Fox and Falco would be as well (which is weird), buffs are always agood thing.
Samus needs buffs from what i saw of players at e3, she's slower than her smash 4 version, has higher gravity , but deals less knockback. so they made Samus a tank with no firepower
So this can sum up why Bayo is bad for the game(at least in smash four and we need more details for smash ultimate as I heard she got some nerfs, but we’d need more data on her.) Essentially what seperates her from the rest is that she is able to(theoretically and majority of the time can against many players who struggle with SDI properly in the combo, or DI for short) pull off an auto combo(guarenteed combo thats basically bread and butter combos) and lead to ladder kill percent off of one combo or even just 1 combo extension. In other fighting games, auto combos don’t lead to immediate death and are followed by blocknstrings. What seperates her in this game is that she has a much easier auto combo than other characters within the game due to innate tool kit and a decent recovery. While I agree she should be nerfed, I feel like some of her moves should change properties so it isn’t as easy to auto combo off of as to many players, it feels like she is a master of all much like Cell in DBFZ, but unlike in those games, lower tier characters generally don’t have the best frame data or tools to deal with her abilities and it feels unfair. As for smash ultimate, she might be more fair and I believe ridley needs buffa as im seeing him get bodied by not only Bayonetta, but pikachu and shiek. Some nerfs Ive heard about on bayonetta and possible buffs. -It seems like its slightly easier to preform witch twist into ladder combos with the way it preforms pre nerf from smash four. -her forward air has less hit stun, meaning that someone can throw out a move mid combo and be able to escape the combo easier, from the looks of it, the move has slightly more knockback too to make the combo ability harder to start into witch twist. -her grounded slide attack no longer is safe on shield as it will no longer pass through shield when shielded and retains same ending lag. These changes along with buffs to ike may allow other characters to compete with her, although we will have to see. Still think ridley needs a buff as he has gannondorf syndrome. Large, heavy damge, easy combo food and easy to gimp.
Armada hates puff lmao, its a result of his first big rival being Mang0 who at the time was a puff main, and then the justified hatred of having to play hbox in melee, and hes actually said hes hated puff since the pokemon anime.
Goljee Theyute "learn the MU" yea because dieing at 0 is definitely about lack of MU knowledge. (sarcassim) if they read your sdi you are dead at 0. Lack of MU knowledge my ass
+Goljee Theyute People arent mad because they dont know the bayo MU, people are mad because the MU is stupid. Hell, even zero has said he hates bayo and he is the best player in the world. Several pros are openly anti bayo as well. She is a dumb character.
+Sweet Lemon Im a ganon main in Smash 4 [thank you smash 5 for making him faster], so that match up is super horrible. I can beat nearly every Match up with ganon since ive practiced them all pretty extensively, but no matter how much time I put into learning how to fight bayo, even just decent bayo players can beat me. I dont lose to trash bayos, but, the fact that even just "ok" bayos consistently beat me even though I beat players much better than them consistently is telling. Ive stopped using ganon in that Match Up because its just not worth the effort. I have counter picks now just for bayo because she is the one match up that I cant beat with my main no matter how much time I put in. [again though, thank you Sakurai for giving ganon some love in Smash 5, hyped af.]
MoySHADY602 same here! Though there might be a chancr mang0 won't compete based on a tweet he said. Hope this changes though, I'd love to see smash 4/melee players compete
I don't get why people are saying Bayo should get nerfed From what I've seen, combos with special moves are even more inconsistent than they were before And the clip with MkLeo's Bayo and Plup's Ridley means nothing but that Plup doesn't know the options of bayo, he doesn't know how to SDI, how to DI Up-b into Up-b and he also double jumped in a combo instead of airdodging which is pretty bad as a huge character like ridley
that is so stupid. the people that actually play bayo already have noted a number of nerfs on her in the e3 build. her fair is worse, as is her divekick, witch twist, bullet arts, witch time, and combo ability. but most of smash 4 playerbase never understood how she works so they think she is still OP and they ignore the monster that shiek and pika were in the e3 build.
Sweet Lemon Thats all people want is to destroy her character. The moment the games come everyone will test her and if shes ass then theyll be happy. But then a new top tier like sonic or inklings (maybe) will show up and theyll complain bout them being too strong or fast. She already caught hell in ssb4 leave her alone for yall really be complaining when we get another pre patch diddy or shiek hell even zss
Sweet Lemon But Plup wasnt at zero when he did those combos on him not mention Ridley is huge. Bayo should catch a nerf on top of the 20 others she still has but dying off the top for a combo shes should be able to do is a weird nerf. I get it but its just weird.
Mango is my favorite Melee person now. Wavedashing is a broken mechanic and the fact that melee players treat it as an actual mechanic is disgusting. Mango really opened my eyes about the melee community. I always felt as though "wavedashing" was a joke taken too far but wasn't sure.
iUseDemFrapz i just hate how people are generalizing the whole melee community Assuming we'll instantly hate the game just because it doesn't contain certain mechanics or whatever
I mean, yeah, their stereotypes, but stereotypes are based on truth for the most part. I've seen so many people go, "UgH, tHiS gAmE iS tOo SlOw, bAcK to MeLeE" unironically. These people have said that for SSBB, SSB4 AND SSBU.
