Funny you mention eldritch since that’s a list I’d put Hegemon Edelgard on if I was Josh; for the sake of mentioning all 3 final bosses of Three Houses that is…
For the "official" Christmas season, I think it might be amusing to see a list of the best "Santa" bosses. Yeah, the Holly Jolly one himself as a boss you need to fight; of course, it could be just as interesting to see a list where you play as "Santa Claus" or someone adjacent to him or even a list of games where he does a great job as a supporting character could be fun to see.
The only actually good game I know of with Santa Claus in it would be Kingdom Hearts 2. All the rest kinda suck. IDK if the Nightmare Before Christmas DMC clone has Santa in it, but if it does it might count as a "good game with Santa Claus in it." But overall 99% of "Santa Claus games" freaking suck. Santa Claus Saves the Earth on PS1? (FYI the GBA version is even worse) Rodolph the Red Nosed Reindeer in Wii? Elf Bowling 1&2 on DS? So many bad games. That list will 100% fail, and I'm pretty sure Josh already did a "Top 10 Christmas Bosses" list a previous year.
@@krimsonkatt Secret of Mana. But I get what you mean, jolly old St. Nick isn't present enough in video games to make an adequate list. That why I thought top 10 kindest-hearted characters would be better.
Honestly I’m so glad to finally see Astral Chain be in a gaming top 10 list. The game is amazing so its a little sad you dont really see anyone mention it.
I would say Rhea is an antagonist just from the description. It is possible for both sides to be wrong and the whole burning the city despite the alleged lack of civilian casualties is a thing villains do.
For the whole "Smash Bros Villains are Society" bit, Galeem and Dharkon could be seen as the stifling industry vs the rabbid fans, with both sides doing whatever they want with the characters we love while the ones who just want to play fun games are stuck in the middle
What is Tabuu then? I always thought Smash Bros. was someone (someone wearing white gloves) who was playing make-believe with their Nintendo action figures, hence the intro of the original Smash 64 and why Master/Crazy Hand is a common final boss.
@@WhiteFangofWar Tabuu is the societal need to "grow up and stop playing with toys" hence his ability to completely freeze everyone in their statue forms and his control over Master Hand
I think thats because SMT never plays favorites. Holy beings are seen as so controlling, you never have the freedom to make your own decisions while unholy is so lawless and chaotic that anyone who isn't super powerful just dies or is enslaved...either way you're fucked.
@@ogre589 Moral of the entire series: balance between order and chaos is essential to a livable world. Demonstrated by neutral always being the hardest path to take.
@@WhiteFangofWar Neutral isn't always the best ending/route. Case in point: Strange Journey Redux. Yeah old Law/Chaos are the worst endings, but New Law AND New Chaos are some of the most positive endings in the series counting the neutral ones. SJR Neutral old and new in comparison are kind of just depressing. SMT1 also had all three endings equal with their ups and down. And while it's still arguable, LAW of all routes is arguably the most positive route in Devil Survivor 1. SMT5 is similar to SMT1 in that all the endings are about the same with their own ups and downs, as rather than being about law vs chaos they're more like monotheism vs atheism vs polytheism, with the so-called "true ending" being the agnostic/become as gods ending. So neutral isn't always the best ending, we are just made to believe that it is based on more recent games namely the SMT4 duology and the original Strange Journey. Also Nocturne kinda sorta as that game is super weird with it's endings with law (reason endings) being further divided into law, neutral, and chaos, neutral having two endings with vastly different results, and chaos/true demon while having by far the most content gameplay wise (one entirely new dungeon and 10+ brand new bosses including the true final boss and the fiends) is one of the worst endings story-wise. Basically, in terms of story nocturne is ranked like this: 1: True Neutral/Teacher's Reason (by far, the only actually good ending) 2: Law-Neutral/Best Friend's Reason 3: Neutral/Demon 4: Chaos/True Demon 5: Law-Chaos/Girlfriend's Reason 6: Law-Law/Cultist's Reason In terms of gameplay, they're ranked like this: 1: Chaos (By far) 2: True Neutral & Neutral 3: Every Law Ending (you don't even get to fight the final boss)
The little anecdote about The Horsemen was interesting, like you said, in any other game; they would, and have, been the villains but what about the times they were the heroes? You ever think of a countdown about unorthodox heroes?
huh, wasn't expecting Rhea, but its nice that you actually chose to appreciate the nuance of the character rather than just instantly jumping to one side or the other, I feel like a lot of people get so caught up in the 'war bad/church bad' discussion that they just kind of gloss over it to make their points
Honestly I'm surprised eriqus from kingdom hearts birth by sleep isn't on here. In a usually black and white series the man was willing to kill not just one but two of his apprentices in order to stop xehanort from having the literal key to end the entire universe.
I was thinking similar, but maybe there's a differentiation between light and holy. I was also expecting FFXIV Shadowbringers, but despite designs it is still light as an element rather than holiness.
The fun part about koshia is that you can distract him with bananas like the yiga goons. It’s either because he belongs to the same shika people, or it’s just that he’s hungry after meditating for so long
9:08 For those who don’t know BBEG means “Big bad evil guy” and is often referred to the basic “Person evil, go kill person” villains that populate role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons.
Yeah, I figured that wasn't an acronym for a BlazBlue game, mostly because there isn't one that has that as an acronym. But, what if there was? What would it be called? "BlazBlue: Equilibrium Genesis"?
I have to admit, Rhea/Seiros’s theme in GW route is my favorite because sort of parallels with Nemesis in VW. And once again, Rhea and Edelgard are probably best antagonists 3Houses/Hopes. One try to so focus on the past and the other on future, creating a lot bloodshed in the process
I don't know how to name the idea for this hypothetical countdown, but how a video focusing on bosses that were originally playable characters in a previous game, only to return as a boss? I believe it would called something along the lines of Top 10 Previously Playable Bosses in Video Games. Some characters that could potentially fit this list would be; Dante - Devil May Cry 4 (Dante's been playable in 3 games thus far, and Nero seeks to kill the Demon Hunter for killing the leader of his cult.) Red - Pokemon Gold, Silver, Crystal and their Gen IV Remakes. (What better way to prove you're the best then by battling the character you played as in the previous generation?) Big Boss and/or Venom Snake- Metal Gear (If we go by the timeline, then Big Boss was playable in Metal Gear Solid 3, Portable Opts, Peace Walker and the Ground Zeros version of Metal Gear Solid 5, while Venom Snake was playable in The Phantom Pain, and both versions of Big Boss become the main antagonist in Metal Gear 1 and 2.) Alex Mercer - Prototype 2 (Main Protagonist in the first game, Main Antagonist in the sequel.) Colonel.EXE - MegaMan Battle Network 6 (He was your ally, friend, commander, one of the playable characters and temporary partner in the Team Colonel version of Battle Network 5, now he's a member of WWW and is halting your progress.) (Debatably) Lingering Will and/or Anti-Aqua - Kingdom Hearts (Alternate/Corrupted forms of Terra and Aqua respectfully, both of which were playable characters in Birth by Sleep, and Aqua gets bonus points as she was playable in that Kingdom Hearts demo that takes place in between the event of the original Kingdom Hearts game.) Bowser - Mario & Luigi's Dream Team (Bowser was the overall main playable character in Bowser's Inside Story) Kazuya Mishima - Tekken 2 (The overall main protagonist in the original Tekken game, becomes the final boss in the sequel.) Jill Valentine - Resident Evil 5 (One of the major protagonists in the franchise, she was declared dead, only to come back and brainwashed by Albert Wesker.) There's a few others, but I currently can't think of them at the moment.
This is gonna sound strange but have you done a "Festive Bosses" list? (Holiday-themed bosses if you will. Whether it's overly-patriotic and MURICA a la 4th of July, Holly Jolly fuckery with Christmas, or...perhaps the easiest of all, Spooky Scary Halloween shenanigans)
Was not expecting a Darksiders shoutout, even if its the bottom of the list I'm glad the franchise and one of its *best* boss fights is getting some love
A list of misguided/dark religious zealot holy bosses which is one of my favorite concepts, Astral Chain being included, and a Death Note reference? This list is freaking awesome.
Game theory actually did a video about Galeem and Dharkon years ago when the game first released. Basically the theory posits that Galeem represents Nintendo. It controls the master hands which are the creators of the world. Dharkon represents the fans. It controls the crazy hands which represent the players. The battle for control between them is so big and chaotic that the characters and spirits of the game have become an after thought. In the true ending destroying both of them sets the spirits free so that they can ascend from the conflict altogether. Supposedly, this is the end of the story that Sakurai sought to tell. And we likely won't know if that's the case until the next smash bros. game. That is if there is one or if Sakurai even decides to be involved.
Game Theory should be taken with a grain of salt. They also did theories for Undertale and FNAF that were such bad takes that the creators called them out on it and sometimes made videos that positied theories the narrative itself addressed but acted as it was groundbreaking (The infamous Harry is not the chosen one theory).
@@emberfist8347 true, but when it comes to their theories on smash, they have a pretty solid track record. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the smash narrative representing society idea originally came from them.
@@emberfist8347 their math has been readjusted since then. As has Nintendo's considering the efforts they've put into making sure their games can be measured correctly.
My pick would be Marcello from Dragon Quest 8. To make a long story short, the apparent main villain of the game had been possessed by a demon sealed inside a staff that is so powerful it has to warp the bodies of its hosts so they make effective pawns on his quest to defeat descendants of the sages that killed him to break his seal. The staff slowly ends up in the hands of people who don't know any better, like your own party member Jessica or even a dog called Leopold. By the time the party puts Leopold to rest, he's already killed the last of his master's targets... Who also happens to be basically the pope. The templar Marcello decides to take advantage of the situation by framing your party for the assassination of his superior. He grabs the staff and the demon tries to take control of him so he can carry out his final order of releasing it, only for Marcello to resist by stabbing the growing thorns through his own arm. By the time the party escapes prison, Marcello is making a public speech so he can declare himself the new religious leader and once he spots them, he decides he's going to personally kill them. Being a templar, he uses plenty of magic attacks and can use Pearly Gates like his brother Angelo. Sadly, defeating him causes Rhapthorne to fully take control of Marcello's body and force him to release Rhapthorne from the staff, making way for the game's final act.
Great list Josh. To be honest, I was expecting the "Demon Bosses" list to be a "Ghost Bosses" list before it premiered. Here, the choice to go with Demons comes together with these divine bosses. I think I'd still like to see a "Ghost Bosses" list sometime. Perhaps next Halloween?
@@thetalltitan2235 Frankly, I was also thinking of Ghost Bosses in terms of various bosses that are ghosts. There's a whole slew of ghosts to pick from in the Luigi's Mansion games, bosses like Bongo Bongo, Jalhalla, and Death Sword from the Zelda games, and of course Phantoon from Metroid.
Yeah no matter how much I look into Rhea, I really can't get behind supporting her. I've seen her actions do more harm than good, that and I really make it a point to never trust the church in a fantasy setting. At the end of the day though, despite my preference to side with Edelgard especially with the Warriors route, I kinda see Fodlan as kinda... screwed in the end.
Even the holiest of being have the potential to be corrupted. Why, Lucifer himself was once an angel of God, and after succumbing to his pride, he was banished from Heaven and stripped of his title of Archangel.
My pick for best Holy Boss personally to me is the First Hero from Skul: The Hero Slayer, because he's the only boss of Carleon that didn't give in to corrupt power, and his second phase makes it feel like you are going up against the ultimate hero, especially in how crazy hard the fight is, and even when you beat his divine second phase, there's still a third phase where he fist fights you, and even at his weakest, he's still plenty dangerous. Plus the ultimate twist in the story really sets in stone just how awesome Skul himself is.
Was wondering whether you'd have Abdiel, Merkabah, Metatron or Shekinah. Mastema is questionable as he has rule over demons as by Yahweh's decree and was overall a very wild angel. Satan though could work seeing as SMT uses his Hebrew and more Biblically accurate version in terms of character.
27:42 My ears instantly caught the mention of disgaea. It's sad that out of all the RU-vidrs I watch who have a lot of niche franchises they're into...Disgaea never seems to be one of them.
I mean, you do have to admit that Disgaea has a lot of grinding and farming required to 100% the game, so its understandable that it is such a niche franchise.
ey Josh, what about a "Top 10 Fights against yourself Bosses" (the tittle needs improvements)?. Basically, boss battles were the player is forced to fight itself. Examples: Omega Zero from Megaman Zero 3 (Zero vs. what Dr. Willy intended him to be), Pokemon Trainer Red from G/S/Cr/HG/SS, Omori (Sunny fighting his own guilt).
Merkabah isn't the one I expected from SMT. I'd probably go with YHVH in Apocalypse myself. Yes, you said no gods, but Apocalypse does confirm that YHVH isn't truly God, he's just another creation of the Will like every other demon. If you really don't want to count YHVH, probably Metatron in Devil Survivor because it's Metatron
Makes sense number 1 is Merkabah the "Lord's Chariot" he is a literal angel and one of my favourite designs for an angel, though it is kinda weird, people dont talk about him or even know about him. Kinda weird how SMT players know more about other angels outside the main 4 then Christians
I know you did a list on fallen heroes, but what about a list of characters that know that their actions will alienate everyone around them & cause some form of destruction, but puts on an act of being a "moral and virtuous person?" Those who are disgusted by genuine acts of charity and selflessness? Those who refuse to acknowledge any form of growth because "it will change nothing?" Those who act as exemplars of virtue, but commit sinfull actions behind closed doors? Those who believe that humanity must be guided with an unflinching iron fist forged by the fires of hate & rage towards their fellow man? ...Just something to think about for your next video. That's all. *Edit* It really ticks me off when someone claims to "like" my comments, but does not give a reason why or takes it back for no valid reason. It just demonstrates how morally, culturally, and socially bankrupt the Brony fandom has become and will continue to be as such. Either make a valid argument for or against my opinions, or don't bother.
Upon seeing the topic I was initially afraid of YHVH from SMTIVA was going to be number 1. Though I am glad that you called out that game for the narrative trash that it was. While I still found some of the other divine bosses in the series better, Merkabah is at least passable.
here are 4 i like to give -Asriel Dreemurr - Undertale -Cardia - Shovel Knight: King of Cards -Ultra Necrozma - Pokémon Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon -Arceus - Pokémon Legends Arceus
Some ideas are Winter Mesa (Spyro Season of Flame) Marcus Saves Mercenary Day (Borderlands 2) Gingerbread Joyride (Crash Team Racing NF) The level with Santa Monkeys and the Titanic (Ape Escape 3)
Finally, a proper Devil May Cry entry. Though the fact it's here and not on demon bosses still irks me. Oh, and the Three Houses entry is way higher, because of course it is. Why does this one specific game keep cucking an infinitely better series.
I honestly miss a boss from Bloodborne on this list, the bossfigthts are as expected amazing but I'd say that either Vicar Amelia or Lawrence the first Vicar should qualify for this list (don't know if they just weren't selected) because especially Lawrence is literally the head of a church corrupted by the decisions he made to use the old blood for humanity's ascension
I think the fact their holy qualifications is just status rather than element might be a factor. Plus being corrupted by outside sources was shown to hinder ranking.
@@ArcCaravan I'd argue that for Lawrence specifically it's more his own fault, he actively chose to use the old blood to "ascend" humanity and suffered the consequences but I can understand if people see that differently
I guess should there be a Holy Boss from the Persona Series, I think it will be the Sumire and Her Persona Boss fight in Persona 5 Royal. I would put Akechi but the Elephant in the room would be *Insert Black Mask Akechi Awakening here* That.
Well, it's almost that time of year again... So I'm going to open up the discussion here for people to answer: *Biggest video game fails of 2022!* For me, one of the biggest fails actually comes from a fan-game. That might seem weird, but once you hear what happened, you'll understand... In fact, I probably don't need to explain it. I only need to say the name of the game and you will more than likely know everything. Sonic Omens OK, where do we start? There's so much that was shady, scummy and just downright wrong with this game that I might as well keep it brief. (Trust me; the full version of this story is on par with the worst of the worst.) - Creator using a kickstarter site to fund themselves and not the game. - Unlawful use of game engine tools where they weren't meant to be used. - Firing a voice actor over a minor setback. - Forcibly attacking anyone who called the game bad. - A hidden texture file of pedophilic content. - And the game is just boring and bland... *FOR IN A FAN GAME!!!* What parallel universe are we living in where a Sonic the Hedgehog fan-game is causing controversy while the AAA title released by SEGA is being loved and praised?
Honestly, the point about us not hearing about anyone being harmed when Rhea set Fhirdiad on fire just makes it look like you're trying a BIT too hard to look for reasons as to why she's not that bad. I'll admit I regard her as closer to neutral than actually bad, but yeah. No offense. The rest of your entry was great though.
can you please do a top 10 anime villain theme songs? i already have some suggestions: "you can't run" /"the power of all for one" from my hero academia "sforzando no zankyo" from senki zesshou symphogear season 5 "sloth" from re: zero season 1 "killer" from jojo's bizarre adventure diamond is unbreakable "the rumble of scientific triumph" from the made in abyss movie
One theory for Galeem that I can most certainly get behind is that they represent the player. They turn all the Smash characters into trophies and trap them in a never-ending world of light because they never want the game to end, and so keep everything in an enternal stasis. Of course, this’s 100% pure theory crafting and not based on anything in the game itself, but still interesting to ponder over. As for Dharkon…idk man, since you have the whole light motif, I guess it was both natural and expected to have the obligatory dark villain too. Maybe they could be viewed as bickering siblings with two different ways of wanting to play the game, but that’d be stretching things even further. Also, I’m entirely glad that they eventually made Monk Maz Koshia a playable character in Age of Calamity, even if he is unfortunately nerfed.
Huh, a Galeem/Dhatkon theory that isn't just parroting Game Theory's claim that they're greedy companies and toxic fanbases. I think Sakurai said they were just villains powerful enough to work in a crossover and the characters went home after the crossover was done. Granted I forgot where he said this, maybe when World of Light or Spirits were first announced.
yeah but consider that Gabriel's story isn't done. You fight him twice in the current release of the game and after the second he comes to an epiphany and leaves you. I expect him to become the penultimate/final boss and then his fight will earn a place on this kind of list. Also Josh has a point; his boss fights ends so fast if you know his mechanics.
Also im the rare kind of person who thinks both rhea and edelgard are bad for fodhland but rhea I can't help but feel like she's the lesser evil but I would only pick her if Dimitri and Claude didn't exist lol. Dimitri towards the end when he's calmed down has stated he wants to try and change things but he wants to make it a stable transition. Claude wants to change fodhland too but I think he's not quite as good for fodhland as Dimitri because he doesn't stay he opens the borders and straight up leaves basically gambling everything on the hopes Almya and Brigid don't come out for revenge once the dust settles which let's be honest this isn't going to work Brigid are going to raid the empire with them in a weakened state causing major mistrust and then Almyra already has a problem managing soldiers to go off pirating pretending to be in their army so what Claude has done in the end is cause fodhland to further shut itself off from the world as soon as someone else tries something, but hey as critical as I am of Claude I personally think he's a way better option than edelgard and rhea so.... lol
let's be honest for a second it always felt weird there's no way to "save" everyone through choice is shin megami tensei 4 and that you had to kill one or both of your best buds depending on the rout but it always seemed like something was in the background stoping you from helping all out of there problems so nocturn showing yhvh (or whatever the hell ya wanna call him) as the main thing forcing routs came as an interesting bit of curveball since it finally makes sense why flyn never got the shot at making a real choice of his own but was instead forced into going with the flow of events for all of the story beats in 4..... in hindsight it was rather aparent there was a sequel to 4 planed at the point it was dropped just was hinted to far too subconsciously for anyone to pick up on it till it was too late
I'm disappointed by the lack of Yaldabaoth from Persona 5. You take him out with a shotgun the size of a skyscraper that is powered by the desires of humanity!!
Because Josh said this was a list about angelic bosses not bosses that are according to said game's plot a deity and Yaldaboth is officially considered a deity this is even further driven when Morgana states this during the buildup to Joker using Sinful Shell as the victory blow. Morgana: "I see when a God plays naughty it's a Demon Lord's duty to punish him. What a fitting end for a Trickster."
I was really excited that SSBU was bringing back bosses, thinking we were going to be doing some 2d platforming like in SSBB. Instead we get a water down version of a board game...
One boss that I’m bummed didn’t get a mention here is Julius Belmont from Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow The strongest Belmont who over lived, the one that managed to actually slay Dracula seemingly for good in 1999. The fight with him is the hardest in the game, as he’s fast, hits hard and spams crosses, holy water and throwing axes as much as a Belmont main in Smash Ultimate
Its still funny even IN context. Basically the main characters grew up in a facist theocratic oligarchy based in a caste system seperated from the rest of the world where all knowledge beyond the essentials is forbidden. Eventually they end up past the walls of their kingdom and realize that they're living in a world that's already been destroyed where nukes destroyed everything and their isolated kingdom is the only place in peace. In their kingdom all knowledge from the "old world" is forbidden, and there is a mysterious masked man giving people random pieces of literature who's shocking content ends up turning them into monsters. Isabeu is given Yuri/Yaoi (can't remember which one) manga from the outside world and ends up actually enjoying it. Since Yaldabaoth (not [redacted] since he's based mainly on the gnostic demiurge personality and goals wise, not the true Christain God who would be more like a flawless Maruki from P5 in terms of goals and personality) and his servants are based on a radical reading of the bible + gnosticism where God is evil, obviously gay stuff is a no-no and Isabau had to be purged for being a fan of gay romance manga. Despite the games dark and depressing atmosphere, this is still really funny even in context especially since it only happens in the darkest route. Law is basically the bad ending route in that game. Chaos is bittersweet more leaning on bitter and Neutral is almost entirely positive. So yeah, still really funny.
I would add Corvus from Dragon Quest 9. While his "twist" was kind of expected he was genuinely one of those holy fallen heroes (and his fight was tricky if you didn't grind enough)
On the topic of Rhea and Edelgard and how easily Edelgard defenders are to criticize Rhea's actions... the same can be said vice versa and that's honestly the brilliance of it. Both have suffered from cruelties unending, and both have to make decisions that change their worlds they live in DRASTICALLY. Rhea already made those choices and created the crest system, alongside the first Hresvelg. Edelgard, thanks to the suffering she endured because of the crest system, is going to end it. It's why I always choose Black Eagles and yet I still enjoy Rhea as both an antagonist and a supporting character
Either way, as a die hard Edelgard fan, I still stand by the Crimson Flower route for my favorite that I cannot bring myself to play the Silver Snow route; especially since, let’s face it - the whole purpose of Three Houses was for you to pick a house a bond with the students you get out of that house, especially before New Game Plus, whereas the Chruch of Serios really isn’t much than just something Byleth was born into via his parents.
Rhea didn't actually create the crest system through and her religion actually speaks out against it and claims its a sin. Rhea is simple to passive to do anything to stop the system and pufers not to create chaos so ends up defending the current order. Also Edelgard suffering has nothing to do with the Crest system or chruch it's all to do with the Agarthans who simply used her as weapon to kill Rhea
@@4wheal except it doesn’t or well in the original Version / JP. As the English version is heavily mistranslated with there being over 300 changes. I know this as there a there group of fans who are either fluent in Japanese or are native to Japan who have made a website comparing English text in game to what the text should have said. The Book of Serios, the thing you are reference is mistranslated as it makes book sounds like a rule using the word “Dare not.” While the JP using the “You” with using a mixture of words like “Shall not” or “Must”. Importantly the one mentioning about not abusing Crest or gift from the goddess is the very vague. “You must use the power given to you by the lord justly.” This gives a different message from English version which ultimately says along the lines of don’t abuse the power. While the JP version give the idea of ‘who gives the idea of what is justified or not’. This question is recontexualised differently for each character in the game. For Rhea, Seteth and the Church. It’s them that makes the idea of what justify or not. We see this a multitude of time in 3 Houses where they be judge jury and executioner as well as censor thing and controls information. For the Kingdom, it the people with the crest but also the King. Dudue battle dialogue in CF in JP version makes this the most clear since Dimitri is fighting for vengeance here and the Kingdom is following him in that goal. For the Nobles it’s themselves since the Goddess gave them that position by birth. As much as I love Josh and this channel. His comments against Edelgard fans feel back handed because we do criticise her character. We just don’t do it to the extent as we do it for Rhea and Dimitri who are characters the story heavily criticised more within it larger narrative. It also the fact that I know a lot of people who have been harassed by the comment and had hate campaign after them just for liking the character as well.
@@lukestarford7608 The Kingdom fight for revange makes sense as they are a victim of Edelgard aggression its not just because they blindly surport Dimitri but they have there own reasons. Sure they are changes in the script but that dosent change the version we were given and most people don't have the time to search them all up. They also don't surport Edelgard claims either through combined with 3 hopes having Rhea having no issues with Edelgard and Dimitri reforms gives her less credibility. Hell Hanneman working at the chruch dispute his goal of removing the need for Crests also shows that she is not that keen on keeping it around. Honestly Edelgard has the smell thing going for her as the second she takes power she gets blind surport with zero issues to go along with it the empire becomes her yes men and there are no issues. Dimitri, Rhea and a lesser extent Claude all suffer issues from there choices and have people with in there own groups who cllange them or outright hostile to them. Edelgard only gets the Agarthans who are treated as a outside threat and have no real issues with the Empire itself. Honestly I would say 80% of my interactions with Edelgard fans have them be completely on board with everything she says and believing she has no faults compare that with fans of teh other lords who are more willing they have faults and talk about them it dosent paint the best picture. I am not saying it is all Edelgard fans and they have claimed down in the last few years but at least a very loud amount of them refused to hear anything bad about her for the longest time and that sticks with people. So I don't think it's unreasonable for Jose to still think they are like that definitely depending on what sights he looks at and his own interactions.
@@4wheal Not really. Sorry if I come off rude or condescending in my comments here. In both CF and all the routes in both Games. Edelgard declare Wars on Church of Seiros first. Not the Kingdom or Alliance. She does this because of their corruption. In SS, AM and VW. Dimitri, Claude, BL and GD helps defend Church meaning they side against Edelgard and the Empire. That is how allies in war work. Edelgard then attacking the Kingdom and Alliance isn’t unprovoked or victim of aggression when leaders of the Kingdom and Alliance allies with the people she is against. Edelgard also makes it constantly clear in all routes that if you don’t get in her way. She won’t go for you. In CF, it’s different since Dimitri and Claude are actually involved in set up of the route. In the introduction of the route. We find out that war hasn’t continued for 5 years. The reason why is because Dimitri and Kingdom allied with Rhea and Church and have been safeguarding and slowly been combining the two army into a single army to then attack the Empire with. The route makes it clear that Dimitri and the Kingdom does this because they want revenge against Edelgard and the Empire for Tragedy of Duscur with both the exploration dialogue and battle dialogue. Dimitri is ultimately using Rhea for his own goals the same way Rhea is using him. This isn’t a Ike and Elicia situation and the game makes it clear. Faerghus is also a very bad place. A place who history is all about invading and colonising people and wars. Claude on the other hand is manipulating the Alliance so then it remain in tact rather then splitting as Gloucester, Ordelia and Edmund are wanting to join the Empire while Gonriel, Judith House and Riga’s are siding with the Kingdom. Due to both Claude manipulation and Dimitri. The war hasn’t continued. To go onto your 3Hopes point. It kinda a bad argument since you argument is “Why isn’t Rhea doing something about it” When she does. In AG, she gives the information they need for farming, which Faerghus needed due to being at a constant state of Famine. Which only happens because of Edelgard war which is bad thing since it kinda telling that Rhea is blind to the situation around her. it also the fact that Faerghus Famine situation is only fixed in non- AM route in 3House. With CF Byleth ending with Ingrid being the best ending in terms that Faerghus become the Fodlan newest Bread basket not because Gronder field got burned down but because it had very fertile soile. While for SB, Rhea quite literally does. The way Edelgard next axe was found was because Rhea was refusing the Reformation of the Southern Church which forced Edelgard to task Gareth with finding Sacred Weapon to use them a Bargaining Chip. You point on Hanneman doesn’t really work as once war starts. Unless you recruit him. He sides with Edelgard and the Empire. Same with you lot yesman argument as in SB, we are actively shown Nobles opposing Edelgard the same way there are nobles opposing Dimitri after his execution of Rufus. If you are saying the Beagles are Yes man. Then not to be rude but they aren’t as the game gives personal reason for all but Linhardt siding with Edelgard. Even then we have SS where they completely oppose her. If anything BL are yes man because culture of Faerghus being loyalty to the Kingdom. They are willing to follow Dimitri even when he full boar mode. Dimitri is never really challenged within his own routes but instead treat as morally white character. Character who oppose him are bad people like with the Western Faerghus despite him killing innocent peoples with his purges of western Faerghus in 3 Hopes Ultimately is disagree with a lot with what you says here because the game doesn’t back up what you are saying. I get that you might think that we defend everything she does and that we bring up text to do so. But only doing so to defend ourself. A lot of us have been harassed by the community with being called Nazi or Facist. Despite the fact that there are people who are Jewish, who had Granparent within Holocaust who just so happened to like Edelgard get called a Nazi. Majority of the time, it has been Dimitri/ BL fans who thinks Dimitri does nothing wrong is morally the best guy. These people made a hate campaign after a person over liking Edelgard and making top tier analysis post on Reddit and continued to harass people all the time. I know this isn’t all Dimitri fans online but when you meet people in real life who had the same experience. You tend to forget. This isn’t me saying Edelgard fans are innocent as people who liked and enjoy multiple characters are caught in cross fire of feud between Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude and Church fans. I’m also not innocent as I have snap at people who headcannoning information of the game and making stuff up.
