Top Watch Brands IN BIG TROUBLE!? The state of the market for ELITE BRANDS beyond Rolex.

Подписаться 9 тыс.

Просмотров 23 тыс.

50% 1

To most around the world there is only one brand that sits right at the top of the tree, the king of luxury, its own self-proclaiming emblem featuring a crown and that is of course Rolex.
But the reality is a whole new level above that watchmaking royalty exists, somewhere way up in the clouds with god-like ora’s lives brand like FP Journe, Patek Phillipe and perhaps the Jesus of Hype; Richard Mille.
Unlike most of their revered Swiss rivals, RM do not have a century long history as a foundation for their elite status of recent years and as the brand commanding the biggest premiums on the secondary market, they have cemented themselves as the ultimate tokens of wealth amongst the a-listers and mega-rich.
Well that was then anyway, In todays stagnant economic context, even the strongest brands are experiencing a decline in grey values, if that’s the case for the steady and stable force that is the big crown it begs the question why is no-one talking about the big boys?
What is the current state of the market for those brands and what does the future hold for the grossly over-hyped, over-priced and frankly niche watch designs of Richard Mille?
Check out Beat the Waitlist, based in the UK. We do things differently.
WEBSITE: beatthewaitlis...
EMAIL: info@beatthewaitlist-watches.com
Any Football Fans?? Go show some support for our sister company; StadiFRAMES!
StadiFRAMES - 3D Football Stadium Model Wall Art
WEBSITE: stadiumframes.com

Опубликовано:

2 окт 2024

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 240

@Naples-Florida 9 месяцев назад

RM will be the new Hublot in 5 years😮😮

@santorini8423 9 месяцев назад

You know who the Dutch Spiv can make another living out of bad mouthing that too😂

@Patriot4Life1776 9 месяцев назад

You mean the new Franck Muller…

@samuelburton5576 9 месяцев назад

It's not the money factor but fade of the hype and realizing the watches are horrible looking IMO@@verynormalman

@balance3201 9 месяцев назад

5 months

@POSUEN 9 месяцев назад

Will be like Franck Muller. The only RM that appeals to me is the RM67-01 in titanium. In 5 years I’ll get one at pennies on the dollar 😬

@jacstoneu 9 месяцев назад

AP is acting like Hublot

@andrewsouth1696 9 месяцев назад

Modern day Tulip boom, people knew those watches were not worth the money but they thought they would flip them on. You just really didn’t want to be holding when the music stopped.

@romanmichaelhamilton8729 9 месяцев назад

There will be a lot of faux-wealth that will be in pure shock when the music does stop. I just don't even see how the larger watch makers are going to survive this storm unless Dr. Evil, Herr Klaus buys up the APs and Rolexes for all of the attendees at Davos. I would love for Rolex to absolutely eat a very serious helping of humble pie also. Actually to see the Swiss get a triple-dose of humble pie would be poetic justice.

@LION_and_the_LAMB 9 месяцев назад

Tulipmania 2.0 💯%. I've said the same thing.

@BoleDaPole 3 месяца назад

I guess it depends on how much you've already made, if you've made a couple mil reselling RMs then a loss of 250-500k or even 1 mil ain't bad

@PhuongLe-st5wd 9 месяцев назад

To be honest I think RM is really hard to stay in high position just because it is not "timeless" like PP or Rolex. The design of RM is really "fashion" so it really depend on fashion eyes which change rapidly. May be I am wrong but I never heard anyone said RM watches are class especially when you paid a lot of money. It really is a red flag to me.

@samuelburton5576 9 месяцев назад

Yep. So true

@koolpep 9 месяцев назад

Your comment made me think about all my high end watch collector friends. Not a single one of them has a RM as their grail piece, not even on the extended radar. That should be concerning…

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

sure, the fashion attachment to this brand makes it very high risk to pay the grey market premium of falling

@dalecross4543 9 месяцев назад

So they should have stuck to a G shock 😂

@songoku-jx3cb 9 месяцев назад

I don’t think so i think the tonneau shape case of rm is as iconic as the sub or tank design . You can see it from a mile away and realise its a rm even if its a cheap copy . So it is infact a timeless design since no one other brand has anything like it . People will associate it with rm as long as the brand survives . Also pateks are not just bought for timeless designs . People buy pateks or rolex for status . The truth is right now wearing an rm is a much higher sign of status than rolex or patek.

@Heymanputhisfingersinmetoooah 9 месяцев назад

I just picked up an RM for 25k 😂😂 same watch once upon a time was selling at 80k! It’s not the future Hublot it is Hublot 😂😂😂

@mikekuridza7760 9 месяцев назад

RM will go bellow retail ....give another year .....in 5 years nobody will want them any more

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

that’s optimistic

@steven8628 9 месяцев назад

most watch will go go below MSRP in 2024. No more free money. Lockdown over. Only buy from grey market if it is below MSRP, otherwise just try to get from AD and park your money into 5% risk free return bonds while you wait

@thefunstuff6121 8 месяцев назад

Investing in RM was always going to be a risky endeavour. The style and price severely limits your potential customer base. Sticking with classic brands and styles is always a safer place to put your money

@streetmoney21 9 месяцев назад

😂😂😂 looks like people with money can be window lickers and crayon eaters too. The higher they climb the harder they fall. That’s what you get for chasing hype and buying something not because you love it and want to enjoy it. No, these people were buying these watches thinking another dodo 🦤 will come along and pay even more money chasing hype. That greed is now setting 🙌 on 🔥 as they loose 100’s of thousands of dollars 😂 this is hilarious 😂 money up in flames 🔥 better luck next time. The moral of the story kids, chasing hype will get you killed. Don’t follow the herd because if you can’t keep up the laws of the wilderness take over and you will get eaten. 🐊

@oktfg 9 месяцев назад

All the Brands are guilty of falling for the hype and thinking they could greedily price gouge above inflation forever. Reality is Switzerland is pumping out millions of now over priced watches every year against diminishing market demand. Worst hit will be the brands who drank their own kool aid. Thought they where above everyone else and narrowed their sales channels to a few outlets per country in the misguided belief buyers would travel 100s of miles to buy a watch.. Production cuts and job losses in Switzerland next year imo

@kimholland9316 9 месяцев назад

I can't afford to service a Rolex, let alone own one. I understand the pull though

@WatchReporter 9 месяцев назад

i don't trust watch sprookers unless they are wearing a branded hoodie.moncler, balenciaga, etc.

@koolpep 9 месяцев назад

That’s a good one! 😂

@jagpilotohio 9 месяцев назад

I’m absolutely stunned that Mille ever got popular in the first place. I detest them.

@jact12 9 месяцев назад

I completely agree, brands that build on hype usually won’t last. The only thing I want to point out is the amount you get if a dealer does buy from you, trust me it’s way way less than the “10%” margin that dealers claim to make. Try 20-25% for easy to flip models like Panda, and up to 40-50% for some AP, PP and less desirable models.

@MrObiwan1 9 месяцев назад

Richard Mille is just a flex watch. They are not watches that will age well.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

this is what i’m wondering too

@markacevedo3725 9 месяцев назад

Rm just plastic and hyped up cereal 🥣 box watch

@jiovanni6237 8 месяцев назад

The best way to invest in watches is to buy a Seiko and put the rest of your money into blue chip stocks.

@simonassouline1230 9 месяцев назад

Soon Richard Mille will become Frank Mueller of the past!

@dannysimenauer5745 9 месяцев назад

Audemars Piguet Royal Oak prices are falling despite being in the Holy Trinity and there strategy of charging grey market prices at their boutiques.

@Diderot68 9 месяцев назад

Congratulations to the watch dealers in the Middle East who stocked up hundreds of pieces of RM.

@mrthinkpositive-ty9hl 9 месяцев назад

In 2006, 7 years after the brand started, my friend bought an RM10 in Rose Gold for $28,000 from the AD after receiving a 30% discount. So anyone that bought their RM’s early on is in good shape regardless of where the market goes.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

he’s pretty safe!

@ransom1004 9 месяцев назад

One of the biggest illusions of the second hand watch industry is how we’ve been tricked into conflating watches that changes hands with dealers, with the watch’s actual demand and price.

@Marco-cd7jb 9 месяцев назад

Hey Vinny, we agreed on your great content some time ago; again you're 'on the money'. After 30+ years of collecting, suggest we'll see yet another return to 'certainty' in times of uncertainty. Despite the fact everybody loves-to-hate Rolex, irrespective of the unsustainable recent hype, they'll illustrate once again why/how the became 'The King'. It's a brave man who trades his Daytonas for watches of the moment based on Instagram.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Thanks for watching and your kind words, of course stability will return but i believe 2024 will be fairly boring in terms of any price fluctuation

@Marco-cd7jb 9 месяцев назад

Being an ex Financial Advisor suspect you're aware of the fragility of our financial system Vinny. Watches are a little unloved at present, yet remain an 'Hard Asset' and reasonable inflation hedge if purchased in-line with the historic price trajectory that became recently distorted. In-fact, and contrary to current opinion, given the potential of gold as 'FIAT' is exposed for what it really is, gold Rolex 'Sport's watches could prove to be a wise 'positioning' as we look back retrospectively. @@vinnyfrancis

@sachinl611 9 месяцев назад

Hey Vinny you have a vaid point...i remember Hublot was every where F1, Football and most of major sports. Now look at them. My friends Big bang titanium is not even fetching him 35 percent of what he actually paid RM is totally over hyped ...they are good but not soo good. Also in order to stay in business they need to further down size the productions to 3000 watches a year to keep the non availability at the boutiques (even harder to get)

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Now that you mentions that i remember Hublot we’re more prevalent within sport years ago than they are now, I would say though that RM have more credibility in terms of their innovation of material usage and movement architecture than hublot so will never quite be in their league

@taeham6326 3 месяца назад

The issue with Richard Mille is that most of their buyers are celebrities and athletes, unlike Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, or Rolex, which have strong support from watch enthusiasts. If this trend shifts, Richard Mille could face significant challenges. It appears that grey market dealers are stockpiling Richard Mille watches, but eventually, they may need to sell them off to manage cash flow. Personally, I have a love-hate relationship with the brand. While some of their watches are incredible, the way they allocate watches leaves a bitter taste.

@WatchReporter 9 месяцев назад

unbelievable.....but TRUE

@leemarshall3649 9 месяцев назад

I’ve always found RM to be hideously designed and overpriced. Do you see them going the same way as Frank Muller?

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

They are an acquired taste for sure, personally i’ve always found them too large on my wrist though i do really like the tonneau case shape. I think they have too much invested in their marketing network to fall to mediocrity but i would expect prices to keep falling at grey

@romanmichaelhamilton8729 9 месяцев назад

That's a lot of watches lately. :-) 46mm Omega Planet Oceans come to mind.

@mikemurphy8996 9 месяцев назад

There is gonna be a bunch of douche bags who bought RM’s for 250k that are gonna have a ton of regrets. It’s the watch version of Supreme. And in 2023 Supreme was pretty much cancelled and irrelevant

@ianmarr2557 9 месяцев назад

120K for a plastic 3 hander. You would have to be insane. Buy a toy watch. I'm sure you can get an Optimus Prime digital affair that will keep better time, probably cooler too.

@rodungp 9 месяцев назад

Brad Pitt 😂

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

unbelievable!

@thegorn 9 месяцев назад

The problem for RM is that the case shape is so distinctive, they are a target for thieves. A Journe can fly under the radar.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Very true, i’m even afraid to wear my CIGA X series around london with a similar case shape

@williamdevlin5439 9 месяцев назад

I said this Months ago!Like Jacob and Co.While u think they look cool I don't like how they look on me. I wear a submariner best,Much more affordable watch that holds its value

@yavin99 8 месяцев назад

I actually like RM but the problem is I'll never be able to afford one and even if I could I wouldn't buy one because of the price, theoretically if I took over designing them I would stop making the silly gimik versions like the smiley face and the candy versions because who can take a watch like that serious and lower the price to $10k starter and hire more people to make more so they aren't so limited. I always thought as RM as the supercar of watches but they just have bad marketing as far as being way to exclusive which is offputting to too many people which brings on a lot of hate and unfortunately for RM is seems to be catching up to them and their not long to be a watch of the past not that it matters to RM because they already made banks full of money.

@mikemurphy8996 9 месяцев назад

I honestly would not trade my Rolex Submariner straight up for a RM. I wear my Sub twice a week and find RM’s so douche.

@yashkhelkar 9 месяцев назад

People looking at watches as investments are stupid. Watches are made to be enjoyed.

@oneal14attnet 9 месяцев назад

Great honest video Vinny! The real question is whether the new independents with no history but asking $25l and above for time only watches and modified ETA movements will come down to earth. I’m an older collector and love the fact that prices are coming back in line. More people will be able to own their dream watch. Cheers!

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Those with the history will stand the test of time Rolex will always be the first to fall and the first to drop everyone else follows suit with greater damages

@csanadbarczy9153 8 месяцев назад

Finally that overpriced Lego watch is approaching it's TRUE price/value.

@mckenzi5120 9 месяцев назад

The real question should be how did anyone pay those ridiculous prices for those garbage RMs in the first place.

@びよーんゆずぽん 4 месяца назад

Rm is garbage 😂 unbelievable someone would spend crazy money on that cartoonist watch

@thomasmargolis6057 8 месяцев назад

For all the brands mentioned - plus others, where they are worn and the fact one wears on and makes them target for crime. The watch is not exactly a discrete time piece, unlike many other watches.

@eahmhelmoa 9 месяцев назад

I really like RM 11-03, would love one at 50-60k max. May be soon?!😊

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Haha maybe a little optimistic!

@eahmhelmoa 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis true but you never know

@osobad1127 9 месяцев назад

Happy meal watches if the happy meal cost 100k

@howardtan7367 5 месяцев назад

Talk so much nonsense about Richard Mille; you don't even have the level to afford one!

@jbroughton383 9 месяцев назад

All those rm models are still worth more used than the new price ,so I don't have much sympathy for the owners . If they paid three times retail more fool them .

@HydrogenAlpha 9 месяцев назад

Very astute analysis. Your videos never disappoint.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Glad you like them! thanks mate

@boomkingg 9 месяцев назад

You should only investment wht you can afford to lose.

@baniconeocleous5837 9 месяцев назад

Sometimes I look at my watch and don't even notice the time ,just notice the beautiful timepiece 😊😊😊😊

@ottowilliamhalim4116 9 месяцев назад

Does this situation with RM also attributed to the emergence of the Chinese brands like Haofa or Chronus Art ?

@singaporewatchcollector6262 9 месяцев назад

You hit the nail on the head. So many of these dealers who can’t move their RM stock preach the same shit about Rolex falling and selling to put into 1 RM because RM prices are. “stable “ and so limited but what they didn’t tell you is that it’s only stable because there’s so few of them to know the actual price and the price drop doesn’t reflect because people who have them has money and can decide not to sell hence “maintaining “ the price but what they forgot is that no matter how limited a product is , if there is no demand it will be just left there. Like limited edition FM.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

this is my point exactly, well said!

@songoku-jx3cb 9 месяцев назад

That's not how it works . You clearly don't understand demand & supply . If there is no demand the price will keep falling until a reaches a point of demand . Price do not stabilize with low demand . Dealers sell watches at loss all the time to reduce dead inventory . So the fact that most rm are 2x retail shows that rm is going strong as a brand and is currently the only brand that has almost 90% catalogue significantly over retail .

@singaporewatchcollector6262 9 месяцев назад

@@songoku-jx3cb think you totally missed the picture. You are right. Price stabilised after there’s demand. If a 300 k RM is not able to sell. And drops to 200 k. And someone buys it. Then there’s a demand at 200 k. So say the leftover stock tanks and sits at. 200 k for months. Price will have to go down to a certain point where there’s a buyer. Say 170 k. But the problem is that RM has very little supply and a very niche market. So a skull. RM 52 limited to 5 pieces for example is limited to 5 pieces at 2 million and is in the market for 10 months. Is the price really 2 million still? Dealers will argue it’s worth whatever the person is willing to pay since it’s so rare but the buyers out there are almost non existent. And the seller who is probably worth 100 million or more would not bother to drop prices since he doesn’t really need the money. It’s going to be just like a 1 million dollar FM watch which nobody wants at the end of the day. You must remember this brand isn’t a Patek. It’s not the same work of art.

@songoku-jx3cb 9 месяцев назад

@@singaporewatchcollector6262 that’s a very different argument . We are not talking about uber rare rm pieces . We are discussing the serial produced lines which are still trading hands at significant price over retail and almost impossible to get at retail. You can’t say rolex is doing bad because a pn daytona worth 500k doesn’t sell for 8 months . The two markets are completely different . The sign of a brand suffering is when they have to give discounts at retail because no one is buying and the secondary mp is consistently tanking . Rm is doing exceptionally well on both fronts . And i know sellers who are still dealing with rm’s and comfortably selling them for profit . Of course they every so often take losses or break even on some pieces that don’t sell according to their expectations but that’s true with every brand . All i see is youtube channels misleading people by trying to portray as if rm is struggling when it’s clearly not .

@LongFinger021 9 месяцев назад

your mate wont be happy with this video youve made about his RM. At least you can low ball him now... lol

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

We don’t offer this brand

@conner.9262 9 месяцев назад

These prices for a brand that looks like it’s taking the piss out of the gullible public… ANYONE who spend this kind of money on a watch that looks like it’s come out of an amusement arcade are deluded …? RM the biggest con of a decade ….

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

I’ve always thought there’s an upper limit of what any watch should be priced at, for me I would struggle to feel safety in investing more than 100k in one piece

@santorini8423 9 месяцев назад

Another banger vid mate, makes a change from a certain person advertising his mates business with the same name as a diy chain😂 got a question vinny, I got the call from my AD to pick up tomoz my Root beer bi metal, it’s come at the wrong time but been waiting nearly 3 years, am I right in thinking I could get my money almost back if I decide to flip in the near future, I do love the watch as well, could sell my other Rolex to compensate, appreciate your opinion mate

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Hi thanks! and yes at the moment you should have no problem getting your money back, shop around with dealers/offers but remember the longer you keep it the less it’s worth, may be a good idea to try delay til the new year if possible so it’s a 2024

@santorini8423 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis don’t think they’ll let me do that as its still a couple of weeks away but will still buy it I think , you only live once mate 😂 will put my name down for a date just jubilee motif green, love that as well 👍

@baniconeocleous5837 9 месяцев назад

@santorini8423 also next year's model will probably have a price increase

@baniconeocleous5837 9 месяцев назад

I have a rootbeer and it has a warm beautiful face 😍

@santorini8423 9 месяцев назад

@@baniconeocleous5837 yeah I think when I put my name on the list it was at least £1500 cheaper🙄

@johnprosser5035 9 месяцев назад

They’re not worthless if you buy a watch or watches you actually love and wear!!! Instead of thinking they’re an investment!!! Great video though

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

very true! thanks for watch and merry christmas

@tondo6912 9 месяцев назад

They still only offered at a huge premium so more adjustment to come

@baniconeocleous5837 9 месяцев назад

I think that life is very short and very precious, and I like to watch the second s of my life tick by on a beautiful timepiece timepiece that makes me smile ,my rm11 didn't do this for me, no beauty just a flex.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

A very nice sentiment to have!

@baniconeocleous5837 9 месяцев назад

@watchinvestorvinny thanks vinny ,if you are ever near Altrincham and you want to talk watches over a beer please let me know.

@howardtan7367 5 месяцев назад

Speaking about the 80s and 90s, you don't even BORN, mate, and you can know so much about what happened in the 80s & 90s! That's just RIDICULOUS!!!!

@vinnyfrancis 5 месяцев назад

*weren’t even BORN ….also no need to use a comma before an ‘and’

@howardtan7367 5 месяцев назад

LOL. I guess you have nothing to say, mate, and change subject to grammar! @@vinnyfrancis

@cecielhelder5923 9 месяцев назад

RM? The Emperor’s new clothes…

@dannysimenauer5745 9 месяцев назад

I am surprised that RM has fallen like other brands. Their customers are the Top 1% on the economic scale. These ultra-rich clients do not feel recessions like the other 99% of us.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

good point however even the top 1% have lost wealth in some of their assets so have been moving the wealth around this past year, one of those things they have moved is their watch investments hence the increase in supply and decrease in demand

@dannysimenauer5745 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis Vinny, I know nobody knows where watch market prices are headed. From your unique perspective as a dealer, what do you see happening in 2024 based on your data. Will Rolex’s increased production in its temporary plants lower prices?

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

HI@@dannysimenauer5745 , honestly 2024 will be much of the same, i will do a video looking ahead at the grey market in the new year soon and stagnant economic conditions combined with low consumer confidence indicates quite a boring year to come really. Ill go over this in detail soon mate!

@dannysimenauer5745 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis I look forward to it. Not to be selfish but I have an eye on these watches that I hope you can cover: Oyster Perpetual 41MM green dial, Pepsi, Batman, and the 2 tone GMT black/grey bezel.

@BobLorrimer 9 месяцев назад

Good point - but will the uber-wealthy 1% be happy to see me wearing one as I climb out of the back of my Van. The party's over.

@Club98000 4 месяца назад

Who says resale is important to everyone?

@aussieexpatwatches 9 месяцев назад

Steel sports rolex.

@rickjason215 9 месяцев назад

The Richard Mille store has no watches. They show pictures from a book.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

I know I have seen videos on here showing just that! How ignorant and condescending for a wealthy potential client walking in only to be shown pictures in a book or on an ipad! (like they cant find such images on google) even rolex have display models

@dac1720 8 месяцев назад

250k minus 6.5% in fees is hardly "worthless"

@vinnyfrancis 8 месяцев назад

…it’s a thumbnail, perhaps watch the video to learn the detail

@VerangaF430 9 месяцев назад

I only like the RM11-03 and the RM50-02 however i have a small wrist so it's no point.....

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

same for me !

@VerangaF430 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis do you only like those 2 models? Actually the 1st choice is 50-02 followed by 11-03

@aaronskiaaronski 9 месяцев назад

RM - nft of the watch world

@mikemurphy8996 9 месяцев назад

Square watches like RM’s remind me of that short window when men’s square dress shoes were in style. Only lasted about 10 minutes before everyone realized they are hideous.

@fatwallet13 8 месяцев назад

You're basing your prices on the peak price, what about the people who bought below these prices & even early retail they are all quids in.

@vinnyfrancis 8 месяцев назад

yes, and i made it very clear that this video was an analysis of prices falling from the peak.

@fatwallet13 8 месяцев назад

understand what you are say but like I mentioned not everyone owning an RM will lose out & the market like everything else will have it's up & downs. I remember seeing a video way back were a guy had paid $300K for an RM & he was wearing it when he visited one of the popular watch RU-vid Chanels, think they were based in Miami he'd had the RM about 3 month's & they said they'd give him $500K for it, so while people can & do lose on their watches many can make money. (by the way he did not sell it) My point is only the very unlucky lose at the levels you are mentioning if buying ay the absolute top & sell at the absolute bottom which needs a level of bad luck to happen. @@vinnyfrancis

@JLim3111 9 месяцев назад

Nobody is paying stupid money for watches anymore. Most models will soon fall to retail or below. Good for real watch collectors 😊

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Is it good though really? even for collectors? I consider myself a collector but one with a limited budget, i always have my eye on something else and that means selling to buy new watches is common for me, so even for collectors a market where pieces are not only losing value but becoming much harder to sell is actually also making it more difficult for collectors

@JLim3111 9 месяцев назад

Will be good if prices fall to reasonable and sensible ranges and that the market eventually stabilises. I believe more watches will then become achievable by watch collectors. Less flipping and buying purely for profit. More watches on the wrist than inside safe boxes.

@borassictime918 9 месяцев назад

Anything, whatever it is - not just watches - is worth only what a potential buyer is prepared to pay for it, especially with little or no intrinsic value (it’s remarkable how many people forget that 316l SS is not a precious metal). And yeah putting all your eggs in one horological basket is definitely high risk. If reports of a collector’s get together are to be believed, the wheels seem to have suddenly become detached from the fp journe wagon. That’s the trouble with hype; it’s about what’s fashionable, and fashions change, often rather rapidly.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Yes i’ve just read about the FP Journe situation, again this brand has no history and is a very high risk investment

@santorini8423 9 месяцев назад

Federico just done a good vid on them and RM

@markyacoubian1911 8 месяцев назад

Yeah, "$0 bids" are not healthy for the market. That is what the dealer will buy it back for. As opposed to the "ask" which is what a dealer will sell a retail buyer/investor. Even finance books get this wrong. Markets without bids or a "back end" or a "secondary market" should raise some red flags.

@williamwatts6384 9 месяцев назад

You can do more with 4 500,000.$ houses, than a 2 Million $ mansion! There’s safety in the upper middle class market.

@konstantinkennedy2244 9 месяцев назад

EMPEROR's CLOTHES. Speculation and people going insane is when a watch costs as much as a house.

@Incognito_alien 9 месяцев назад

Just put the RM in a cereal box cause thats what it looks like.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

ahah that made me giggle, mcdonald’s happy meal perhaps?

@cliverkay 9 месяцев назад

The underlying problem is that wearing one of these watches makes you a target ie with thieves following you home etc..and violence used to get the watches. Hence nobody now wants to wear one in public . Hence the value goes down the tubes as people are either wearing a fake ( still be a target ) or an Iwatch .........Shame

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Very true! it’s getting to the point where i’m getting viewers of the channel asking my opinion of luxury watches they can wear in public that are stealthy enough to not get stolen! I will be making a video about this soon

@zoof1 9 месяцев назад

BTW why compare prices at the peak to the bear market. Should compare retail to current value.

@fattmatt200 9 месяцев назад

The best investment is still antiquarian books, watch companies are still knocking out the collectable watches so there will always be some sort of supply, less the limited edition ranges.

@ulischroder7618 9 месяцев назад

buy high sell low never a good way

@wise1889 9 месяцев назад

This watch always reminded me of Jacob and Co that’s why I stayed away from it……

@zoof1 9 месяцев назад

It’s amazing that all the people making terrible comments on RM can’t afford one. Haters will hate. RM has been the most stable during the last year. Everything has fallen. This is not an investment game. It’s a hobby. Suck it up.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

have you even watched the video and you claim RM has been the most stable? RM55 losing £75k, is that stable to you? I’m not a hater, I’ve not given my opinion just the figures and the facts which is what you get on this channel, not bullshit sweeping statements that are no backed up with facts.

@zoof1 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis The problem is that you are comparing prices from the ABSOLUTE peak to the absolute bottom of the slide. Compare retail price to current value and you may have a different opinion. Do you have any other investments, like stocks or other equities? How are they doing? Also remember RM had much larger increases in the aftermarket compared to most brands. Even with the declines you mention, they are still significantly over retail. And yes I saw the video that is why I am commenting. It is creating false impressions. Facts don't lie as you have stated, but the comparisons you make clearly show a bias.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

ive mentioned the retail price of every watch discussed?? so perhaps watch it back, this video is primarily about grey market prices and volatility@@zoof1

@zoof1 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis ah grey market...so the artficially inflated grey market prices are falling and it is shocking to you...ok...great information for the flippers but not the real collectors or long term investors who know how to purchase and enjoy watches. Got it thanks.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

i guess you’re new to the channel if that perspective of analysis surprises you

@AG-en5y 9 месяцев назад

❤❤❤❤

@rushwarp9492 9 месяцев назад

If you are in the UK of all places, why talk about not being able to sell an RM on eBay and Chrono24 ? You should have been advising your friend to bring his RM 010 to the specialist RM Pre-owned store smack in the center of Mayfair... I suspect that if he bought it in 2006 @ EUR 33,000 he would not do badly (unless he lost way too much at the casino 😆?)

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

ebay is not the place to sell such a watch, i have been trading watches on ebay for 7 years and know the platform inside out, auction end price will be far too low and even if you receive payment following that your account will most definitely be red flagged by ebays algorithm as suspicious due to the large sun involved and they (as they have done with us before twice) will hold your funds for 3-6 months after shipment. Terrible way to sell. Chrono on the other hand right now is a haven of opportunists and dreamers. List any watch and expect wild and ridiculous offers of 75% of your list price. Mayfair/london/hatton garden is the direction i have pointed him towards.

@johnobrien8398 9 месяцев назад

What watch is worth that money just to tell the time you can look at clocks for free

@gavinsverdloff4291 9 месяцев назад

Oh Vinny, tell us something we don’t know. I wish you a Merry Christmas, & a Happy, Healthy Pikachu New Year.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Thanks mate all the best to you and your family too

@1968gadgetyo 9 месяцев назад

RM is trying to spin their marketing in East Asia. Like the new shop in Singapore and Taiwan. They are inviting Asian celebrities for the opening event.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

that’s very interesting, perhaps they are looking to globalise their appeal away from a stagnant European economy

@1968gadgetyo 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis Good luck to them. RM is still not that well known (3%) as a brand except for watch enthusiast. Rolex is still king. (21%) Followed by Cartier (6%) and Omega (6%).

@BAF605 9 месяцев назад

Great info Vinny. The rout goes right down to entry level brands who are discounting 45% on £300 watches. It's all about the financial hocus pocus that's being going on since the 2008 financial crisis. It's finally time to pay that bill and all the others that have been added on since. The super rich will suffer least but that doesn't mean they will be happy to subsidise the RMs of this world. The long established brands from top to bottom of the market have seen a lot in their time and have best chance of coming through.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

2024 will see stabilisation but very little growth i believe

@BAF605 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis The Republicans have just refused to back Biden's latest $$$ package for Ukraine without which Ukraine's war effort will sink. The catastrophe in Israel/Gaza adds more fuel to the dangerous situation in the Middle East. Take those two away and the whole World is still in recession with no sign of recovery. I'd see stabilisation in watch prices in 2024 as a major victory which I don't see happening. I think we've seen nothing yet. It's being so cheerful that keeps me going. 😊😊

@mrgee007 9 месяцев назад

It all depends on what you paid for it, if your friend bought it at list from RM he's still in the money, but if he bought at the height then your 1000's out. At any point some are still making some are loosing

@rickyrickman5458 9 месяцев назад

I think it’s worse than you are estimating

@TheDryDown 9 месяцев назад

$70K unrealized loss on $300K investment is 25% loss. Not unlike the loss on an Omega.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

Sure but i was referring not to the percentage depreciation from retail, this is a different kettle of fish altogether on a £7k speedy for example, it’s the sheer chunk of money people are losing within just one year from buying an RM at peak

@ElderPinto254 9 месяцев назад

but what where those people thinking and investment with a Mille ???? Thats a for the non watch lover if you love watches you dont buy a Mille sry !!!

@stephenpeck1636 9 месяцев назад

great video again mate... maybe also worth pointing out that IF a dealer was to purchase now they would probably want more than 10% margin due to market fluctuation and duration they would have to sit on a piece like this. I would like to bet they would want more like 20% margin, making your kick in the bollocks a lot firmer :(

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

this is quite true, I chose 10 as really an average of all dealers and brands. It’s arbitrary but for sure dealers are building in a risk premium too

@frankm4129 9 месяцев назад

I wouldn’t trade my Detona for any of those

@michaeljacksonsloafers 9 месяцев назад

Why you price dem mofo's in da dollars ?

@iselvarela3145 9 месяцев назад

do you have a video on franck muller?

@flipmode45 9 месяцев назад

There are parallels between RM now and Franck Muller in the 2000s.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

for sure! thanks for watching

@Saints-Forever 9 месяцев назад

Putting all your eggs into one basket like RM is committing suicide - what if you got mugged or accidentally damaged the RM badly.

@vinnyfrancis 9 месяцев назад

This is also true, though it’s perfect for smuggling large sums of money across borders and for money laundering

@Saints-Forever 9 месяцев назад

@@vinnyfrancis hahaha. That is also very true. Perhaps your mate should consider making a trip to places like HK where demand for RM may still be hyped.

@RockerfellerRothchild1776 9 месяцев назад

Even Invicta will be around long after rm is gone lol

@TimothyKasch-fm7bn 9 месяцев назад

This is why rolex is actually the most valuable watch brand…Liquidity! No other brand even compares. Patek is much smaller demand and many models near impossible to sell. All the other brands come and go in the cool sector but rolex always the top

@cecielhelder5923 9 месяцев назад

Amen, you saved me a post. Within the next two years I’ll expand my Rolex collection with the bottom falling out. Did the same in 2008 during the crash. AP and PP are too expensive for the entry level luxury market. No name recognition either with the general public.

@patrik3450 9 месяцев назад

@@cecielhelder5923how much did you capitalize on in 2008? 😅curious I was just 18 and didn’t have a huge watch interest

@cecielhelder5923 9 месяцев назад

Only got offered the 116520 Daytona, after three years. Back then everything, outside of the stainless steel Daytona, was available from the AD at al times. Next time around I hope to add the latest Daytona and a GMT Rootbeer. Rolex moves in mysterious ways. @@patrik3450

@markyacoubian1911 8 месяцев назад

@@cecielhelder5923 If the boom from 2008 for watches is over, even Rolex will correct. Now, is the rally in watches from the 1987 stock market crash over? That would be an even bigger correction/crash -- even for Rolex.