Glad to see that you are reviewing products over $600. Reviews are about educating people to make informative choices. Why limit the reach of people who will gain value from your reviews. Now I am not saying that the majority of your content should be expensive gear! Having a focus on inexpensive gear is a great lane to be in. It helps people get into a the hobby or upgrade to the next level. Example: I already had a home theater but when I wanted a dedicated inexpensive 2ch setup, cheapaudioman was there for me reviewing the products that were in my price range. But I then caught the bug and started getting into speakers that are over $600 but there was a hole on my research as the cheapaudioman was no longer there for me when I needed to know how Chocolate Chip Drip sounded on a pair of speakers over $600! 😁 All this to say that I am am navigating the DACs you are reviewing now, and it is great to have your analysis. This would not be possible if you had a hard stop a $600.
Well I DID pay for the D90SE and OMG is it ever good! - Add to that the new Marantz Model 30 integrated amplifier, Elac Uni-Fi tower speakers, and a little DIRAC room correction and Bam! Seriously deep and wide sound stage, instrument separation, crazy detail (fantastic bass, mids and yes even the top end is sophisticated). - Literally my endgame :) P.S. My name is Randy too. From Toronto.
Personally I love the sound of the D70S you should do a review of that one and see how that sounds I had this unit as well I found it slightly more detailed and resolution the D90S but in terms of full body space dynamics end base definition the D70S sounded better almost like r2r in some ways I would love to see your thoughts on that deck it’s currently one of my favourite I even saw D90se and kept a D70S I enjoy the sound more. But if I wanted to hear every little detail D90S was better more in my face I was able to hear more background sound effects going on in my music as if they were closer and more apparent not to say the D70S is bad but slightly more muted more warm sounding and slightly a little bit more recessed but wider bigger more full Ness more smooth more bass My opinion! 🙏 great review
Also have the d70s and agree with your description, though haven't had the d90se to compare. I believe a Geshelli j2 is next on my list thanks to the CAM endorsement. Trying to keep away from 2nd mortgage for now! Good content Randy.
To be fair, DACs are craaaazy expensive. If this is the end game of “budget”, I’m in. I get what he’s saying. But I also get what you are saying. He’s being screwed by his channel name at this point lmao
Just wanted to stop bye and leave a bit of positivity in the comments section. As always you did a super clean job of summarizing the product along with your impressions. Having a definitive eye on value and providing relevant comparisons is always welcome so we can navigate the deep waters of this hobby.
Randy, as you know from other conversations we've had it is my belief that the differences in the sound of DACs results from their analog sections implementation but not from anything involving their digital implementations. Some of the analog implementation is inside the DAC so there is nothing the manufacturer can do to modify the sound of this area of analog implementation unless the manufacturer uses a custom DAC chip, but there is plenty that they can do outside of the chip in this regard, including the power supply. And this is the area I think that distinguishes DACs, in addition to features and price.
Correct. With every DAC the chip is what it is, its how well everything around the chip is engineered especially the power supply and analog output stage even down to component placement and electrical traces. Many of these Chinese brands are really making the effort with science and engineering and the numbers don't lie its paying off.
On audio science review they measure what comes out of the dac. And the difference are minimal at best. You can’t judge a dac by the sound of a cowbell, that’s for sure.
I did try this out for 7 days. I liked it, a lot of detail, but there was almost no soundstage. I went with the Denafrips Ares II, which I prefer. On another "DAC shootout", the reviewer commented that the D90 had the smallest soundstage of any DAC that was tested. I prefer soundstage over micro-detail.
Be careful of purchasing this unit. I bought one a few weeks ago and it quit working after about 60 hours of use. Now I cannot get a hold of Apos to return it. I have tried for days now with zero success. Plus the sound is not as good as these reviewers keep saying. I am just trying to find a DAC under a thousand dollars that will beat my older Musical Fidelity CD player before it dies. This unit is 22 years old. This was my 5th DAC under a grand but before I could really test them against each other the Topping just quit playing, literally right in the middle of a song. Early on though it was not doing well against the Musical Fidelity.
Half a fifth of Larceny Bourbon and a Willenston R8 fed with Topping D90 DAC and a Topping D 90 pre amp tickling 2 ELAC UNI FI 2 5.2 Bookshelf’s , ETTA JAME’s Stormy Weather is rockin my world. You are the Man. Next up ANNIE LENOX “ I put a spell on you.” Better than Opium.
Randy with the "B-Roll" stepping up the production value, "Your getting so big!" LOL great video just one recommendation try shooting the B-Roll at a higher frame rate so you don't get that shutter affect when you slow it down in post. Keep up the great reviews.
Thanks, eddie. I'll try it. I've got one of those Ronin things via Ron at New Record Day. I havne't quite figured it out but I'm trying to figure this out a bit at a time. Hopefully 20 videos from now I'll have it worked out better but I appreciate you noticing.
I think we have to get rid of the notion that the chip is making the sound. It does not, the sound is formed in the following analog stages. Having said this, what has to be taken into consideration is two things that have an influence on the sound in the digital domain, though. These are jitter and reference voltage purity and stability. Different chips may handle these differently, but provided this is taken care about within the DAC somewhere else, there should not be a sound coloring here, but repercussions on soundstage and resolution. This will be for the better and high price chain to resolve. Again: the analog stages are making the sound at the foremost.
Hi Randy, great channel. Authentic and down to earth unlike many others. You often mention using a raspberry pi as a streamer straight from USB. I'd like to suggest to you a Rpi streamer hat; the Allo Digione Signature, which i think falls under your general guidelines for cheap audio hardware. I use it connected to a topping D50s running volumio and Tidal connect. It's been the best upgrade for the price I have done in a long time and it produced a very noticeable upgrade to the sound compared to a standalone Rpi. Maybe you'd like to try it for yourself and give us your thoughts. Keep up the good work, cheers
I have a digihat pro on my pi3. I haven't put a hat on my pi4 because I've "heard" through Darko's channel that the usb is a lot less noisy on the 4 than the 3. What I'd really like to do if try to find a decent 5 volt power supply for it. I've got an ifi 5 volt power supply that I think maybe able to work. I'm starting to notice that power supplies can really make a difference in spaciousness. For sure I'll look into it. I'm going to do a Roon series of videos and the pi will be highlighted in those for sure. Thanks for watching, brother.
DACs are tricky - are you paying extra for sound quality? Or features? This one would be fun to demo for a few weeks just to see an the ways it's endless features can be tweaked and used in different use cases around my house. Not to minimize sound performance, but you buy this one for bells and whistles.
I have this on order. I’m happy with my decision for a few reasons: I’ll use the MQA and DSD capabilities (not a requirement for me, but it was worth the few extra bucks). Probably won’t use the Bluetooth as my streamer has AirPlay, but I’ll try it out. My preamp has tubes so I DIDN’T want a ladder DAC. In the other video you mentioned the detail from the Ares, but that is not what I’ve heard from other comparisons… Not a huge fan of the Schiit sound. I hope to have it soon!
This is a great DAC. I think just a bit overpriced for what it is. I think it sounds great but I like a bit more detail on top. I would love to hear the AKM version to hear what kind of differences there are. I think you made a great choice. Between this the Denafrips and the Bifrost one is splitting hairs. I just prefer the denafrips.
Not sure anyone will see this, but here goes. I got my D90SE. It makes a horrible buzz/crackle when it changes resolution. I’ve been unable to actually evaluate it because of this. I’ve been in contact with Apos, and ultimately Topping. With the time difference it takes days to actually have a conversation over email. Unfortunately, I’m tired of it and have requested a return (not an exchange) from Apos. Now looking at other options.
As these dacs all seem to aim higher than their MSRPs would love to see Ron do the same shootout with his system - purely for another perspective with different (+$) associated equipment. More micro detail + air from the Ares is a bit surprising based on the D90se written + video review from Soundnews, as well as the measurements to a certain degree. Great content as always!
Node2i -> D90SE -> Rega Brio-R -> Focal Chora 826.... LoVe It LoTs!!! Prior to D90SE it sounded great, but maybe little thin at times.... not anymore :D
I use LA90D and DOSE to connect my iPhone via USB and listen to music. I'm interested in the PRE90, but do you think it's better with or without a preamp?
I don't listen to measurements, I listen to the music. I can't even take ASR seriously anymore. He said the NAD C658 measures badly, yet when I listen to it, it sounds wonderful. DAC Measurements mean 💩.
bro... I've been going back and forth with a guy about measurements on the Ares 2 video. They are very very very confident in their view points and seem to be unwilling to see anyone else's point of view.
@@cheapaudioman To some people, a measurement is everything, even if it's outside the human ears range. Like the whole MQA debacle. They are stubborn and unwilling to set aside measurements and give it a chance by listening to it with their own 2 ears.
@@dicmccoy I follow ASR, and I listen to music. How does a cowbell help you define if something sounds good. What about a snare drum, trumpet and saxophone.
Comes with standard Topping remote, I’m assuming? Topping really packs the features into their products so if you’re looking for units that you can connect to nearly anything and possibly forgo a separate preamp, here ya go. The main thing is, you have to like the way it sounds with your system, because the best measurements don’t guarantee the best sound for everyone. At least with the Topping dealers (with the exception of China-based ones), returning it can be easy if you decide you don’t like it.
Hey Randy , how is its depth? I have found most of these Sabre chip dacs with great measurements lacking depth. I recently got a Benchmark DAC3 and didn’t like it compared to my Marantz DAC. and I love benchmark gear. I have their power amp and pre. But their DAC has very little depth and it a tad dark. Great channel and subscribed!
I prefer the denafrips and the bifrost 2 personally but I will say this was one of the better Sabre dacs ive heard. It wouldn’t be my first choice but I like a bit of a wider and deeper stage. It sounds great and very analog though
@@cheapaudioman so I got this DAc today to try. Didn’t like it at all. Sorry. Don’t want to upset anyone. It sounded thin to me and not so real. And it has a narrow soundstage. I also have the benchmark DAC3 and that has more and a tighter low end than my Marantz DAc. But didn’t like the Topping at all.
Have you ever tested Khadas Toneboard DAC? (feat. Saber). How would it compete against the more affordable DACs you've tested so far? To me it's quite a bang for the buck but then again I never compared it against the competition... it's said to be at least as good as the Schiit Modi and in Europe it's definitly cheaper.... Cheers!
Khadas tone board is the definition of hifi value. Tone board 2(?) Comes with a case and is similar inside. Perfect for cheapaudioman review! Features xmos chip, good USB implementation, high end Sabre chip , superb pcb layout & the nicest rca sockets I've ever seen. Sounds pretty good too:)
Some people need to have measurements to make a definitive choice for their gear. I used to buy components after seeing ASR’s evaluations (a lot of times no substantial listening time is involved), but pieces I eventually bought after spending time listening to them were more likely to not be on his recommendation list. Noise and distortion figures are already so low and arguing about if you can tell the difference between a rating of 124dB vs 121dB dynamic range seems like a moot point in most home settings.
So many criteria for high quality playback,power,sources,transmission lines, people don’t listen to these uneducated reviewers,take the product home listen to it for yourself with your equipment in your audio space,make up your own mind on how it sounds to you,no two ears are the same in hearing what is pleasing
Talking about the sound is good, but where are the recorded tracks with confirmation of what has been said.There must be audio demo material recorded in comparison with another DAC for comparison!
The JBL A series are suddenly twice their previous price at Crutchfield- $299 for the A120 and $350 for the A130, up from $149 and $179! WTF JBL and Crutchfield? OTOH, the KEF Q150 are on sale for $399 (and also at Amazon for $395), down from $599! It looks like the Wharfedale D320, at $249 are now the speaker to beat under $300, if you can find them on this side of the Atlantic. Either them, or the Diamond 11.1 or MA Bronze 1, both discontinued, but still available some places for $299
The d90 in preamp mode was a huge disappointment to me, it made loud popping noises whenever I played, paused, stopped the music, when muting the dac and anytime sample rate changed. I understand now why they're selling a separate preamp because the internal preamp module in the D90 is utterly useless. Topping support confirmed the popping noises are due to the way it's designed, so I ditched it. It was a sad choice I loved the way it sounded.
With the exception of mqa after owning this for quite some time I like most other dacs better. The only dac that has stood out to me is the weiss and at 10,000 bones not going to ever be in my wheelhouse. Under a thousand really pick any you can afford.
Topping should dump those silly filters because they cost money, add complexity and achieve nothing. They don't start to do their thing until above 18,000 which is a place that most human ears cannot go.
You have invented a new word "analogy", haha, not to be confused with another word with the same spelling but a different meaning and pronunciation, lol
This will eventually drop to the 800$ "waterline". Competition is fierce. But supply shortages (and fuel costs) are nudging prices up. This will eventually ease. (Let's hope the pundits are right)
You have to try the SMSL sanskrit 10th mkii. Excellent value. Although it has an akm dac chip it isn't at all analytical, it's quite musical and smooth actually. It focuses on the midrange and adds some roll off in the treble. Very happy with it.
1. I took your advice on the Klipsch RB-51ii speakers - legacy and got a near-new set from an audio dealer for $200 - they sound amazing for desktop and small living room, so THANKS for that recommendation. 2. Just curious only....wondering why $600 is the cutoff between "affordable" versus ...(whatever). IOW, why not $500 or $750?
I know this sounds wonderful for music but I primarily use my amp (a Topping A90) and my DT1990 Pro headphones for gaming. I have been disappointed of late with my current onboard DAC in my motherboard (A ROG Hero XI for reference). Would this DAC translate as well as it does for music for gaming?
@@dustinmihalcheon5013 I play single player games most of the time. Casual gaming... not competitive. Most of my headphones are good for gaming. I don't have a Gaming headset with a mic. I use the HIFIMAN HE6se V2... HD 600... V-Moda Crossfade in wired mode. As long as the headphone is good with dialogue and music and has some decent impact with explosions type stuff... it's good for casual gaming.
@@JTB-- I am trying to find the ultimate cross over headphone. I play single player games and such too but I play a few competitive ones as well. Currently I have the Hifiman Anandas off a Schiit Hel 2E. But I do have a Jotumheim in the closet which I may Bifrost up later on. I heard the ones you have may actually be better for games. But am thinking about the Audeze LCD GX. I heard the LCD X and loved it for both. Excellent imaging and sound separation and the best bass I have heard. I am hoping its little brother is the best of both worlds. Or as close as I can get.
Filters have other effects (on phase for example), and things get very complex. This makes it audible (sometimes) even when someone doesn't have as good higher frequency hearing as they used to. It is also why not all DACs that use a particular chip / design topology - sound the same.
I’m pretty sure the answer to this is “no”, but can an 3rd gen Amazon Firestick be plugged into the IIS-LVDS connector on the D90se? I think a high quality DAC that can “peel off” hi-def audio from an HDMI source would be the cat’s meow.
The I2S connector is only for connecting devices that outputs audio following the I2S spec for audio. It doesn't take audio from say a streamer like AppleTV, or a receiver.
Well. The Denafrip 2 is now between $810-850. So, for extra $50 or so u get volume control, bluetooth, mqa and a is2 connection in the Topping. Is the sound that much different between the d90se and dena aries 2?
I fear that the dark side is gaining control.... Cheap old guys want to set it and forget it. You give me that DAC and I will spend all of my time changing cables and mashing buttons to justify my $900 purchase. You redeemed yourself in the end, by the way
Wow a delta sigma DAC that sounds like something is missing on the top end compared to the Ares 2? Very interesting. Love the Ares 2 but not for it’s top end clarity. It’s good but not the best when compared to the Bifrost or other delta sigma dacs I’ve heard. For me the Ares 2 shines in it’s best in class midrange and layered sound stage. Not sure if I want a dac like the D90SE if it has less top end than the Aris 2. How is the bass and midrange? How are the male and female voices rendered? Is the soundstage wider or narrow? Basically does the D90 SE shine in anything? 😁
Have you tried the Ares II in its OS/Fast or OS/Slow modes? Because if you are referencing it in NOS (default) mode, then it is certainly not the last word in high frequency resolution.
@@NeilBlanchard Yup. OS + Filters does improve detail but at a cost. In all my chains, OS mode hampers the holographic sounds stage (voice and instrument layers), and verticality. When comparing the Ares 2 to the Schiit Bifrost 2 and SMSL M400 using OS mode, I damn near returned the Ares 2 since I easily preferred the other DACs over it. NOS flipped the script and I ended up ultimately preferring the Ares 2 in NOS mode over the other DACs in one of my chains. This is just my personal experience. Not saying one DAC is better than the other. Only stating my findings with the equipment I own.
@@CriPPleR_HD Interesting - I had the Schiit Bifrost 2 in my system for about a year, and I tried the Denafrips Ares II first in the NOS mode, and it seems to bring more cohesive / full / layered soundstage. But this increased a bit more in OS/Fast mode, in my system. The layering of the soundstage *with* the subtle dynamics of all those instruments - is truly startling. I still like the Bifrost 2 a lot - it does have a bit more low end ooomph, and may have the edge on some/many "standard" resolution recordings. With the Bifrost 2 in my system, the limiting factor of how any given recording sounds - is the recording itself. You can hear when something is compressed, or mixed, and whether it is direct to stereo in a room or not. And the Denafrips Ares II takes this resolution even farther, in my opinion.
@@NeilBlanchard Not surprised. Too many variables. Your audio chain and ears are different than mine. This is why I will never say that one DAC is better than the other. I will only say which DAC I preferred in my set up and why. 👍
@@cheapaudioman Thanks from the UK Randy, much appreciated. I'm still researching, but I think I'm heading towards the Ares II. Most reviewers including yourself are saying it's alot of bang for your bucks...Thanks again fella!!
Could you compare the sound stage of the Ifi NEO to the sound quality of the Topping D90 or the Schiit Bifrost 2. I realize the NEO is an all in one but I have the NEO it would be interesting to know if I made the right choice
I would be interested in how the D70s sounds compared to the others as it is less in price. Probably more similar to D90se, but perhaps a bit more open?
Hard to say, but if Topping could get this in a less expensive DAC, then they would have on their no holds barred model, too? Randy mentions the Bifrost 2 and the Ares II - both of those are multibit aka R2R aka ladder DACs, and they have more open and resolving top end because of this.
The D70s provides a more clean neutral sound signature with it’s AKM 4497 chipset compared to the DACs that I have owned with Sabre chipsets. The 4497 is one of AKMs higher end chips right underneath their flagship 4499 in the regular D90. D70s does provide more detail in high frequencies and wider sound stage compared to a Topping D50s with a ES 9038Q2M. I don’t own a D90se to make direct comparisons to the D70s. Topping D90se uses a higher spec variation the ES 9038 Pro and along with other components when examined along side with the D50s.
@@andrewmorgan6734 Well. I hemmed and hawed on the D70s as it was delayed. Apos just texted me it's on its' way. I'll be happy with it. It has enough should I get other gear, try other formats, etc. A two year warranty helps. 10% off too. But damn...I want to hear both the Bitfrost 2 and Ares 2. At least I'll be able to decode the handful of SACDs and HDCDs I have. And I know it flat out outperforms my Marantz CD 6006. And, no glare whatsoever.
@@nc3419 Sorry for the late response. In regards to any additional gear, it really depends what system you have and how you are planning to use your DAC. I use my D70s with my desktop setup combined with a Alex Cavalli Liquid Platinum, Teac PD-301, Focal Elegias, Audeze LCD 2 Classic, and Sennheiser HD 600. My Topping D50s is used for my digital 2-Channel system which uses pair Klipsch RP600Ms, Marantz SR 5013, Pioneer VSX D1S, and Oppo BDP-103( Use it as a CD and SACD transport). Those are a couple examples on how I implemented my DACs into my systems. I would recommend getting some balanced XLR cables to go along with a balanced amp if you have one to get the most out of your D70s. I recommend Worlds Best Cables or Hart Audio if you are looking for them.
MQA adoption in so much hardware is a head scratcher for me. I feel like it's the tail wagging the dog. Tidal has almost the lowest subscriber count than all of the streaming services except for Quobuz. By sheer numbers it doesn't make sense for companies to license the MQA tech to drive prices up on products that most customers won't even use just on sheer subscriber counts. The DAC makes significantly more difference in the sound than MQA or any levels of resolution. I just don't understand why so many companies are chasing MQA. Give me 16 44.1 and I'm thrilled.
@@Iainmaclennan70 I know. It's probably easier for music services to manage or else, what's the appeal? My dac might do MQA but it doesn't mean I will subscribe to Tidal.
Randy, you ranted about the bullshit of audiophiles and here you are reviewing 900$ sound card as CHEAP audio man. I have three words for you when you use words like clinical, airy, spacy, etc with 900$ dac - DOUBLE BLIND TESTING.
Well I was curious about this DAC. I think the Bifrost and Ares 2 are both better and the Geshelli J2 and Topping E50 are as good at 1/3 of the price. I can’t say how good an affordable product is unless I hear the more expensive ones. And if you’d like to apply for an intern position to help with the double blind testing please shoot me a message.
@@cheapaudioman I just don't believe you remember how a DAC sounds, no offense. Because you are human, and human's audio memory is not very detailed. That's why some people hear difference between power cables, rca or usb cables - they fool themselves because their audio memory is influenced a lot more by other factors such as marketing suggestibility and price tag. Do you think you will be able to find a difference between 10,30,50 or 90 dac topping models if you do a double blind test and rank them in the same order? I don't know. You do you, I guess I am just ranting why some audiophiles are full of crap.
@@zergbong you’re probably right. I was able to pick out some of the cheap AKM dacs blind before and burr browns. Sabres are much harder to do though. It’s really normally about the op amps than the actual DAC chips where the real sound difference is happening. But thanks. And you’re probably right. Internship offer still stands if you’re interested
because, even a really really good stereo system being fed by a poor dac will make it sound bad. but a good dac can make a so-so stereo system sound better. even for a music production scenario (mixing and mastering) the dac has an important role in decision making because it’s a part of our monitoring system. probably comes 2nd after room treatment. a very good dac/adc could cost as much as the speaker itself. it should not be the main concern, but it definitely plays a role. cheers.
@@cheapaudioman Randy, don't change you be you there's a reason we watch. The honest truth good or bad, your fun personality and the understanding it doesn't have to be expensive for you to enjoy the music.
It's the problem with ASR reviews... perfect measuring products get a happy pink panther but the customer gets a generic sounding product. I had a similar experience with the Revel M106s... bought them based on the ASR review, and they sound ok but they are super boring... the Buchardts S400 trounces them and they are cheaper!! In my case, Gutemberg advise was much more useful than ASR's.
In the mid 90's I bought Bose bookshelf speakers. They did sound good, better than your average 100-200 dollar speaker kit for a computer. But I thought my friend's cheap AIWA stereo system sounded a lot clearer and distorted less at loud volumes compared to my expensive Bose. I was disappointed but for computer game music and sound playback it was pretty nice.
