I bought the L50 to go with my E50 which I got some time ago and I quite like. You are the only reviewer who mentioned the grainines and the lack of space. So thanks for that, keep up the good work. Guess I gotta sell it now, cause even my Hidizs s9 pro sounds more spacious and clearer than the stack 🙂
FYI: If you go with the E50 or D10 dac you can get balanced TSR to XLR cables from most Guitar Centers or musical equipment dealers. Balanced ¼ TSR is a industry standard so there's tons of cables out there from different manufacturers.
Absolutely and thanks for confirming this for viewers. The issue for me was for people who might have bought quality, audiophile interconnects and can no longer use them or who can't get equivalent cables for this stack. The pro audio cables are generally built to be hard wearing and functional more than of maximum sound quality.
@@PassionforSound True, pro gear is usually built to last or for length but there are high-end TRS cables available since it's one of the standard connections on studio monitors. Mogami and Gotham are two high-end cable makers I can think of and Worlds Best also makes really good TRS cables. Now that a company is using this connection on home gear I'm sure we'll see more cables hit the market.
That's true if you're just looking for a solid, well constructed cable. Unfortunately, having played with lots and lots of different cables over the years, I have found that the internal construction (geometry and metallurgy) do alter the sound for better and sometimes worse.
The balanced connectors being 1/4 inch TRS is pretty smart in my eyes actually. Not only does it save space and make a balanced connection possible in a stack this size to begin with, but we all have a million 3.5mm to 1/4 adapters flying around at home, and once you plug those in you can use any pair of aux cables to connect the two devices, and there truly is an ocean of aux cables out there in all imaginable lengths, configurations and quality levels.
That's a good point if you have the 3.5mm to 3.5mm cables. My point was more about the fact that audiophiles don't generally have 6.3mm balanced interconnects due to the proliferation of XLR interconnects
Picked up the E50 & L50 stack for a good price and I've been very impressed with the sound I'm getting. IMO, L50 was a nice upgrade over Schiit Magni 3+ -- it really opened the soundstage and "fixed" the veiled sound of my Philips Fidelio X2HR after a leather ear pad mod.
Bought e50 to play Apple Music via optical from tv, sounds very good. Then tried usb out from new node to compare the nodes internal dac to e 50. The topping is more open and detailed, better dynamics and soundstage. The node is warmer and richer but sounds muddied and flatter. The e 50 is a great dac for its price but like we do you start thinking about what a more expensive dac going to sound like. This hobby never stops.
Sweet review, appreciate the Chapter breakdowns for your videos if I haven't mentioned it before. Looking forward to the Mystery Stack review/reveal as well. Love to see you review my current stack in the JDS Atom+, I feel it's the same deal as the Topping with a really incredible DAC and a so/so Amp.
Glad it's helpful, Ninja. I'll reveal in the Patreon Discord what the mystery amp / stack is. It's a shame when the two parts of a stack aren't on equal levels, but it's fairly common it seems.
10:37 Just an additional information for those that are interested in this DAC/AMP combo, I tested the TRS balanced connection and the RCA connection with Topping cables for both connection (same cable for fair comparison), Topping TCR2 6N (RCA cable) & Topping TCT1 (TRS cable). The headphone I used to test the connection is a professional studio monitoring headphone Austrian Audio Hi-X65 which sounded really flat and transparent through L50's single ended output. I noticed that with the single ended RCA, there is an additional warmth to the sound. Perhaps a boost on the bass region (60 - 250Hz) to the low midrange region (250 - 500Hz). Instruments such as trombone and vocal sounds fuller from the single ended RCA connection. Meanwhile from the balanced TRS connection, there is no boost at the bass or the low midrange. The sub-bass and the treble stays the same. So, you get the same thumpy sub-bass and clear treble without the "mud" from the bass and low midrange boost. In conclusion it sounds clearer and more analytical. As what Lachlan mentioned in this review, I personally think both sounded great. It depends on what kind of sound signature you are looking for. For me, I use the single ended RCA connection because, my headphone is on the analytical side so the boost on the bass and low midrange adds a fun factor to my music listening experience.
Thanks for the comprehensive review - your balanced and thoughtful approach is enjoyable and informative! In this instance the J2 and E50 are the DACs on my personal shortlist to pair with a THX 789, if for no other reason than to change things up a bit. Sounds like an E50 with the mystery amp might be an interesting option as well.
Glad you found the review helpful! If you haven't decided on the THX789 then I'd definitely recommend that you stay tuned. The mystery amp is a little different to the 789 (has pre-amp function, but balanced only for headphones and pre-outs) but I definitely like it more.
@@PassionforSound would love to buy more gear but i already have the 789 and am pretty happy with what it does for me. One of the secondary reasons I'm looking at DACs is that I have some inefficient Hifiman planars and my current unbalanced DAC only does 1 volt, so the 789 runs out of gas/hits some compression right around listening volume with my preferred EQ factored in (via Schiit Lokius). Upping that voltage should unleash more of the 789s power in that scenario.
Ah, I misunderstood - sorry! I thought you were buying a DAC and amp. The 789 is great and I wouldn't recommend selling it for the mystery amp. You're completely right about the voltage issue you're facing. I'd grab the E50 and either run it via RCA (the 789 isn't fully balanced so you're not losing anything) or find some 6.3mm TRS to XLR cables.
@Passion for Sound I went ahead and picked one up - should arrive in the coming days. That red color is killer but literally everything else on my desk is black so while I do have a hodgepodge of gear it's at least all black... had to go with the black E50 as well. Looking forward to giving it a listen.
Hope you love it! I get what you mean about the colours too. Buying the coloured versions for a stack would be great, but as a single unit, it could be a bit too out of place.
1/4 trs is extremely common in the professional audio space, I don't understand the dislike of it. It saves space on the back and internally, and does the same thing as xlr in a smaller package. TRS plugs are also generally cheaper and easily available for making your own cables.
My only complaint is that if you want to use the E50 with a different amp that uses XLR inputs, you are limited in the availability of high quality interconnects. For those that don't believe cables make a difference, it's irrelevant, but my pro cables that I use for my microphones and studio monitors don't sound as good as my Supra, Curious or AudioQuest cables and they don't offer TRS versions.
TRS input and outputs makes a lot of sense as interconnect solutions. All my amplifiers have balanced XLR inputs, but I never use an amplifier without a high quality mixer in front of it. The role of the mixer is to control and sound level and organize the sound system sources and for this reason it will always have TRS inputs on the channel strips and XLR outputs on the master output, in order to be able to connect with amplifiers or active speakers. I use XLR only on the final output stage. Anyware inside a rack I always prefer and use TRS interconnects. As for the "sound quality" of your Supra, Courious and AudioQuest cables, you can keep them and modify them yourself by connecting the required TRS connectors.
That's a good point about modifying existing cables. My concern is more that it requires a commitment to a specific connection type which is limiting for a lot of people when few other consumer products use this connector
I was eagerly anticipating your review of the E50 & L50 stack Lachlan and you delivered! Considering this stack for my office so I won't need to lug around my iFi iDSD Signature. Cannot wait for your take on this "unnamed" DAC-Amp stack as it is peaking my interest. I really value your reviews. Who knows? You might convince me to re-consider and opt for this "unnamed" stack once your impressions come out.
Thanks Conrad! It's a tough call between the two. Once stacked, they're both pretty similar sonically. The Topping stack is a bit sleeker and smaller, will drive IEMs better and has both single ended and balanced. The mystery stack is pure balanced, has a bit too much gain for some IEMs and offers pre-amp outputs. Not sure if any of those details are deciding factors for you, but I'll announce the mystery amp as soon as it arrives.
Great Review Lachlan!!! Counting Crows, been a long time since I've listen to them. That also jump started another memorable band "Hootie & the Blowfish".
Great review dude, but I have to disagree with you about the balance ports. Those are very common and heavily used on the pro audio world, and there is a lot of high quality cable options…
Glad you liked the review. My point about the cables was more that the pro gear tends to be made for longevity rather than maximum sound quality (if that's of importance). The cables I bought were easy to find and of good quality in terms of build, but they can't be used on any of my other audiophile gear. If Topping and other brands use these connectors more often, this all becomes moot of course. 🙂
The choice of sockets at the rear is really just a function of size. A pair of XLR sockets would not fit unless the chassis was made around 10 - 20mm wider.
Thank you for a very comprehensive review, on the strength of it I purchased an E50 with TCT 25cm balanced connect to L50 and am awaiting the Pa50. I like the TCT 25cm links given I have the stack. At first, the L50 was not impressive, and given I am not sold on "" burn in I did not expect it would change "but then after 40 hours something happened ? could it be subjective? I think not and this little amp sings , it is neutral, musical, and very enjoyable with some really surprising moments, the sound stage is now large both laterally and front to back. I really did not expect this from such small units The e50 is equally equivalent to the dac in my Niam ( I am not a fan, overpriced, and has too much smoke and mirrors for my liking). I cannot wait to receive the Pa50. Could this be another mind-blowing little box? As I have never had a class D amp it should be interesting.
Thanks for the awesome review! I’m in between either getting this E50 DAC or just go big and get the D90SE and don’t look back although I’m afraid I won’t notice too much of a sound difference? Another reason why I don’t want to pay D90SE prices even tho they’re both on sale right now is because of the issue with using the D90SE with a TV source via optical or Toslink. Many have reported this so I may wait for the next iteration or a fix incase I move the DAC to a bedroom setup. Let me know if you think I will. I’ll be pairing the DAC with a Singxer SA-1 for my headphone setup. Appreciate your thorough and informative reviews as always!
Glad you liked the review! I've got the SMSL DO200 coming up soon and between you and me, I'd choose it over the D90SE. It's also better than the E50. I don't have a direct link handy, but these guys stock it: tinyurl.com/PfSHFG
I now own an E50 and am very pleased with its sound so far, even after comparing it to the Chord Qutest. Am I the only one with the auto on/off function not working? I installed all necessary drivers on my PC but although the DAC turns off automatically, it won't turn on automatically.......
Thanks. I heard topping has a firmware upgrade for the e50. Have you found any reference on your dac which firmware came with your unit & where to find it ?
Thank you so much for the review! it was easy to understand, specially someone like me that don't know anything about audio equipment and what they are capable of. i'm planning to buy the sennheiser hd800s, do you recommend the E50 and L50? im mainly going to use it for PC gaming about 98% with a 2% for music listening using Spotify.
I would forget the HD800s and go for the Beyerdynamic DT1990, in my opinion a better headphone, at a fraction of the cost. Please consider. HD800S is not worth the money.
When choosing between Topping DX5 and Topping E50 + L50 in terms of sound quality, which would you recommend? Will a separate L50 amplifier give an increase in sound quality in addition to power?
Generally speaking, separates will perform better because you've got dedicated power circuits for the DAC and amp rather than a shared power supply. Of course, you need a decent interconnect to make sure the signal passes cleanly from the DAC to the amp though.
Glad you liked the review. No current plans and I'm swamped into 2022 so it will be a while before I can get to anything that's not already in the schedule. Sorry!
L50 (amp) and E50 (DAC). Hopefully I didn't accidentally call the L50 the A50! I'm so used to the A90 amp that I might haveade that mistake, but I'm definitely only talking about the L50 amp.
@Passion for Sound , Thanks for the reveiw. Any thoughts on E50 compared to JDS Labs Element 2 as a DAC/Pre into a power amp into speakers and sub? Is one just better than the other? Or comparable with different sound signatures? Ability to drive amp? Cheers. Appreciate your review of the Element 2 Amp/DAC too. Hope this isnt stretching your memory too far, I know its a while since you reviewed it!
You're right that it's going back a fair way and I never tried them side-by-side, but my instinct is that the E50 is the superior DAC sure to its more spacious soundstage and slightly more articulate sound.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for your thoughts on the two DACs. And for the prompt reply : ) This is what I tended to think might be the case. Element 2 is a few years old now too so Moores Law comes into effect. Though I did think after I posted that the El Amp as a seperate could make a good 'stack' with E50.
Real question I have is: Topping E50 or Geshelli J2 for a hybrid desktop setup? Running to Schiit Asgard for headphone duty and SMSL A0200 for desktop speaker duty? I'm wondering if the remote/preamp capability of the E50 will have more versatility over the much cooler looking J2?
I don't think you'll need the pre-amp functionality, but I'd still grab the E50 because it sounds better. The J2 is great, but the E50 is just a bit better. You will need some TRS to XLR cables though.
I can't say for certain if the full signal path is balanced, but I believe it is. The amp definitely takes a balanced input and provides a balanced output
Thanks for the review, greetings from Peru. I have a SMSL M100 MK2 DAC and a Khadas Tone 2 Pro DAC, do you think this Topping E50 would improve or complement the other two? I also have the Topping L30 amplifier and one of Dilvpoetry Tube T7 balanced bulbs, I wait for your video to see your new recommendation.
@@PassionforSound Do you think that the combination of the Topping E50 and the SMSL SH8s is very good value for money? Or what other amp do you recommend for me to upgrade to the Topping L30?
The SH8s is a solid amp, but the new Geshelli Labs E2 is even better. I have a review coming soon, but it's pretty easily the best budget, balanced amp that I've heard
Trying to keep up with chi-fi is like driving down the highway, there is always someone in front of you. nice review. looking forward to the mystery amp can you give out any specs ? thanks.
Topping’s linear power supply has a 15v barrel power socket for the L50 E50 stack. I wonder if that would improve the sound of the L50 enough to change your opinion of its performance. I don’t own the L50 so I can’t test that theory out for myself.
I can't recall exactly, but I'm pretty sure the L50 uses a 15V AC power supply so no regular DC linear power supplies will work for it. Also, the Topping P50 outputs very low current so wouldn't support an amp anyway I think
“The TOPPING P50 Linear Power Supply is made from a solid aluminum brick for a sleek look, mechanical strength, and anti-interference. The P50 is regulated with three TPS7A4700 ultralow noise linear regulators and has a sealed toroidal transformer. It comes with 15V modules that provide more than 10000uF capacitors in total, and 5V modules that provide more than 8000uF capacitors in total giving the output enough energy reserves. Finally, the P50 is compatible with global voltage and works well with the TOPPING D50, D50s, A50, or the DX3 Pro. Combine it with the TOPPING A50 Headphone Amp and the TOPPING D50s DAC to create a comprehensive audio setup with top sound reproduction.” I own this power supply and it comes with a barrel to barrel connector for the 15v output to power the headphone amp. The A50 it mentions is also a 15v amp like the P50.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for catching that! I suppose a better pairing for the E50 would be the A50 or A50s if you have the P50. Would you recommend either of those over the L50?
I don't understand your complaints about it not coming with trs cables...Do dacs with xlr in/out come with xlr cables or something? Heck, even most single ended dacs don't come with an rca or 3.5mm cable.
By choosing a connector type that is less common in the audiophile market (where this is directed), they make it more difficult for those buying this to use the cables they already own. If I were involved in the marketing and product management of a device like this, I'd be considering including a basic set of TRS interconnects as a value-add in the box to help get people up and running, especially knowing that it will often be stacked with Topping's own amp using the same connectors.
If you have the chance, I'd like to know how the e50 stacks up against the new 2021 Loxjie d30. It uses the same dac chip, but would like to know if they sound the same. The main difference is in functionality and in that regard, i prefer the loxjie.
I wasn't aware of the new Loxjie, but loved the old one. I don't currently have any plans for a D30 review, but hopefully I can get to it at some point next year (I'm booked through to March 2022 already)
You think the E50 is much different than a Schiit Modius or Modi? I'm just getting a bit tired of paying $100 USD for shipping on Schiit products to NZ. Stil way cheaper than buying loclally, but I've been considering going Topping for my DAC at work.
I think the E50 is a great choice if you don't want to buy Schiit. I haven't compared them directly, but I believe the E50 would best the Modi and probably equal or best the Modius.
Here is a conundrum…I already have the Topping e30 paired with an Cambridge Audio AM10 amp. Do I drop my amp and go for an SMSL DA9 with the E30 or drop the E30 and go for the E50 and keep the AM10? Both choices will and an impact on my sound. Advice is more than welcome..
I just bought the D50s 2 weeks before the E50 came out. I haven't found a comparison between the two. Luckily balanced was not high on my list of features. They say everything in life is timing.
That's annoying when that happens, isn't it? D50S is still a solid DAC, particularly with an external power supply rather than USB power from a computer
Just be sure they're not the solid style (metal body with 6.3mm at one end and XLR at the other) because they won't fit side-by-side. Has to be a fly-lead style
I don't have the E30 here anymore to compare, but the E50 will still be better if you have the budget. (I'm basing this on how well it compared to other devices that I know are better than the E30)
Hi Passion! I’ve been immensely enjoying your videos lately and they have been very informative to guide me in the beginning of my audiophile journey. So thank you! I’m glad to see that I made a solid choice in buying the Topping E50/L50 stack ensemble as my first dac/amp stack to get my feet wet. I love it. With that being said, I’ve been eyeing and researching the Chord Qutest/Anni stack as well. Chord seems like very high quality and I love the aesthetic of their products. I wanted to ask with your experience of using the Topping Ensemble and most all of the Chord products (unsure if you have used the Anni Amplifier yet or not) is there really that big of a difference between the two different stacks? It seems pretty universal that the E50/L50 punches above it’s weight in retail price and value. So are the Chord products just a whole league above for the increase in price? Or are they simply both transparent and clean Dac/Amps that Perform similarly? Thank you so much if you choose to respond!
Hi Trevor, so glad I've been able to help! I've only spent a brief time with the Anni at the Melbourne Hifi Show so I can't provide detailed comparisons or description of it, but I'm very comfortable saying that the Qutest and Anni stack is a big upgrade over the Topping stack. The L50 is definitely the weaker piece of the Topping stack so the Anni will provide some better dynamics there and the Qutest is a significantly better DAC than the E50 even though the E50 is very good. To give you an idea, the Mojo 2 (Chord's entry-level DAC) is on par with the Bifrost 2 from Schiit which is already better than the E50 (and more expensive too). The Qutest goes a significant step better again. The Qutest / Anni stack looks and performs really well together based on my brief experiences.
@@PassionforSound Thank you for your response! I figured there would be a strong chance of this being the case. I’ve dove further down the rabbit hole since commenting and have watched all your videos on the Burson Conductor/Soloist 3X GT, as well as your videos on the Hugo T2 and M-Scaler and Qutest 3 part series. Needless to say, I am getting way ahead of myself haha. But I find it all to be fascinating stuff and I have really enjoyed all of your content. You seemed to give a lot of praise to the Burson Conductor 3X GT as a wonderful all in one solution. And Bloom Audio is currently selling the device with the matching stand and 5A supercharger as one package for only $2699! So I might have to jump on this deal. The Chord Products look amazing throughout, but are no doubt expensive. With that being said, I would love to own one of their flagship products like the Hugo T2 and M-Scaler one day in the future.
The Conductor GT is an amazing option and comes incredibly close to what the Chord products can offer. The Chord products do provide a little bit more tonal nuance and soundstage depth, but if you get the Conductor GT, I think you're already ahead of the Qutest plus most headphone amps so the price-to-performance ratio from the Conductor GT is exceptional.
@@PassionforSound When you say the Conductor GT is already ahead of the Qutest plus most headphone amps, does that statement include the Quest and the Soloist GT? Basically, ranking in your high opinion from 1 to 3 the Chord Anni + Qutest stack, the Burson Conductor GT, and the Qutest + Soloist GT would be awesome! And if they are too close to rank, that's totally fine too. I am curious on how you'll answer this though haha. I understand you haven't spent as much time with the Chord Anni as you have with the other devices. Thanks for all your responses Passion!
I haven't heard the Qutest with the Soloist GT so I can't answer that one. I'd probably lean towards having the amp and DAC separate so if the Qutest and Soloist GT is an option, it would give you an amazing solution and would be better than the Qutest and Anni because the Soloist GT is nuts.
I currently have an Asgard 3/Bifrost 2 powering my focal clear pro, I haven't tried this more analytical type/measurements based source gear, would you say it's worth a try?
Personally, no. I'd stick with what you have as I see no real benefit in the op-amp based amps compared to well designed discrete amps like the Schiit gear. Of course, if you're curious, go for it, but they're not better in any significant way other than measurents and arguably a more neutral sound, but who can say what is truly neutral when all of them measure as flat in terms of frequency response?
It was the Geshelli Labs E2. It's a brilliant amp and my review is live so you can check out my full thoughts if you'd like to. Happy holidays to you too!
Appreciate the great review. I have just bought a pair of DT 1990’s and have been using my dragonfly cobalt which so far I’ve been impressed with but don’t have anything to reference it as I’m new to this niche world. How big of an improvement do you think these would make over my current Dragonfly Cobalt?
It would be a nice step up, but the L50 is pretty mediocre as an amp. If you can handle the mismatch, I'd grab the E50 DAC and a Geshelli Labs E2 amp and you'll be laughing. You'll need a way of connecting the 6.3mm TRS plugs to the XLR inputs on the E2 though
Thanks a lot for the quick reply! I would like to keep my budget for a dac/amp at or under $700 but am open to more if there really is a product vastly better around $1000. Any suggestion you may have if you were to recommend any other products you think would be better sound quality wise than the topping e50 and e2 amp? My only equipment currently is a pair of Shure se 535's and the DT 1990's however I will likely buy more in the future. I primarily will be listening to lossless music on Qobuz and gaming on PC. Keep up the great content!
Was the mystery amp the h0200? I am still waiting for a good amp that doesnt break the bank for iems and high power requiring headphones I want to buy in the future. I have an atom stack and the new zen dac, neither have more than 1w output power and gets too loud as soon as I touch the volume knob for iems. Hopefully the mystery amp can help me out there
No, the mystery amp was the Geshelli Labs E2 which is solid, but probably not the best choice for IEMs due to power output. The HO200 is solid (review coming soon), particularly if you're driving IEMs, but it's not the most exciting amp I've ever heard.
Hi i just recently started this hobby and got myself a zen dac and a tube amp and would like to have a setup where i can switch from purely neutral/analytical to warm so im planning to use my tubes as a pre amp. Based on your review that setup is pretty warm soundwise should i look elsewhere since my already existing dac(zen dac) is warm sounding already? Or is that combi not as warm as the zen dac. Just subscribed!
Thanks for the sub! I haven't yet tried the Zen DAC so I can't directly compare, but I didn't find the Topping stack particularly warm - there are just other options that might be drier/leaner sounding so it depends what you're looking for (i.e. what you expect from a "neutral" system). I think any of the SMSL SU-8s and SH-8s, Topping E50 & L50 or Geshelli Labs J2 & E2 would be good, neutral options though (remembering that I haven't heard the Zen DAC)
Thanks for your reply. Lastly for the trs connectors is there a specific trs that i should look for? Planning to use rca to trs if im just going to get the amp only. Some of the connectors i find online have 1 ring i think its called mono not two will it work for those cables as well?
As someone who owns both, I don't agree. The Bifrost 2 produces a sense of depth in the soundstage and each individual instrument has more 3-dimensionality to it. Depending on the amp you're using, those characteristics could be suppressed and tonally the two DACs are otherwise very similar, but the Bifrost 2 has greater abilities in soundstaging when paired with the right amps.
Thanks. I heard topping has a firmware upgrade for the e50. Have you found any reference on your dac which firmware came with your unit & where to find it ?
@@deadline7610 i actually tried to update it recently - shipped with the latest (back in November), so didnt have to way to find out is to start the firmware update program, which tells you your current version plugged in to your pc
Purely for sound quality would you say E50 beats Chord Mojo's DAC connected to the same amp? (I know they're different products but I got a deal on used Mojo)
Hello Passion for Sound, so if I use a 5v. 8000mAh Powerbank it should give me the BEST Quality Sound from my Topping E50 ?! And that is even better (or similar ?) than a iFi Silent iPower2 power supply that cost 110$ ?! I will receive my Topping E50 tomorrow, and looking forward for your opinion about this subject of DACs external Power Supplies. Thanks !
I've always found the power banks to be almost as good or as good as a quality power supply so that should be the case. Apparently, some power banks use a higher voltage battery and then a switching transformer of some sort to drop the output voltage, but I have either not come across one or they make little (of any) audible difference vs other power banks.
@@PassionforSound Is it logical to say that since a Powerbank does not have to ‘’Convert’’ AC to DC, there should be NO Electromagnetic Field to shield ? I got my E50 today, that will be connected to my iPhone 14ProMax (with USB Adaptor), to my 2 JBL Xtreme3 Speakers AUX with 2 RCA (to 3.5mm) Cables. I am fully realist that those Speakers are NOT Audiophile, but I’m hoping this DAC wired connection will sound better than Bluetooth. Thank you for your fast answer, and btw just earlier today I bought Bowie Blackstar Album per your suggestion ! Thank you !
That is generally true about power banks, but some of them use voltage switching circuits that could cause some interference. The Black Star album is amazing. Hope you love it!
@@PassionforSound So far so good, my setting (with Powerbank) seems to render good quality Sound to my 2 JBL Xtreme3. After some time of listening, is it possible that the E50 (or any DAC) seems to sound a bit more Detailed, Open and Musical (like a Break-In period ?) ?!… Or my Ears are just tired after 5-6 hours of listening :@)) ! 👍 Thanks 👍
@@PassionforSound I actually have the Topping a30 pro d30 pro stack that sounds great using my Focal Clear MG. I was considering the E50 as a secondary dac for a different sound signature since its uses a new Saber dac chip, and the D30 has four Cirrus Logic DAC chips. I also have the new IFI Hip Dac v2. using the Burr Brown Dac chip. I really like to listen to my music using the different signatures of the Dac sounds. The E50 sounds like a very good fairly inexpensive Saber Dac.
I do actually do some basic graphic design and a lot of photography so I get colour (music and photography are my two creative passions), but I've only seen three colour variants from Geshelli and I know all too well how misleading online photos are due to white balance settings in the camera and editing, and then monitor calibration and colour accuracy too. Sorry!
@@PassionforSound yeah I got the impression you had a thing for colour judging by your blue keyboard. As for the E2 I got a recommendation from someone who has a J2 in dark grey and smokey perspex. He said it looks fantastic so that's so good default option.
Yeah, that would be nice. The prototype they sent me of the E2 also looks great. It's got a grey-blue powder coat with metallic blue fleck and a mid blue (not too bright) plexiglass
I don't have the Modius here to compare, unfortunately, but I expect the E50 might slightly outperform the Modius (it's really good!) but the Asgard 3 is a more enjoyable amp than the L50 so it's probably a wash as a stack.
I hope it didn't come across that way 🙂 The E50 is nuts and the L50 is very solid - just not exciting. Together, as a stack, they're very good for the money.
so compare this to the ex5, did topping fixed their "thiness" in audio yet keeping their great cleanliness? if so maybe this thanks to their new chip they using with this dac
This is much better than the EX5, but I think it's actually the amp stage that's the biggest concern with the EX5. I've got the DX5 here now and I'm hoping they've improved that one too.
@@PassionforSound When I tested the EX5 I directly compared it to the E50 by using the line out from the EX5 to my amp the same way I do with the E50 single ended RCA output. While the audible issues with the EX5 that you highlighted in your review weren't as obvious via the line out as when using the headphones output, the issues were definitely still there. I could tell a definite and substantial improvement when using the E50 over the EX5 as a DAC only.
There seems to be a move away from XLR for some reason. I noticed recently that Sennheiser in their high end HD800s 'phones now come without XLR connectors (You can buy them as optional - very expensive - extras) however they use 4.4mm balanced. I am also beginning to see the 4.4mm balanced on other dacs/amps.
I haven't tried the Hip DAC to be certain, but separate components at this level pretty much always outperform and all-in-one so I'd be confident it will be better.
In my possession? Not if you need balanced. If you don't need balanced, I'd probably go for the Asgard 3 from Schiit or spend a little more on the Jotunheim 2. Also the mystery amp will be announced VERY soon (technically is already online I think) so stay tuned. Actually, as I think about it, I'd probably go for the SMSL SH-8s.
@@PassionforSound well where live the asgard 3 is like 140% the price of a L50 so not sure it worth the difference. Maybe I'll wait for your mystery amp after all 😋
Nicely Done.. Looking forward to your mystery amp review to pair with the E50 dac. If it's balanced hopefully you'll have the proper cables coming from that amp included in the box :) I remember you reviewed the THX AAA 789amp that you liked (now selling for $239 US on drop), how would it pair with the E50 dac ( from memory if you don't have it on hand ) Is that even possible, maybe not ? Thanks
It should be possible to buy the right 6.3mm to XLR adapters, but they have to be fly-lead style because the normal all-in-one plug style adapters can't fit side-by-side in the E50. That said, I'd probably just use the RCA output which is just as good for both the E50 and 789 (which isn't fully balanced anyway). I'd still wait for the mystery amp though 😉
@@PassionforSound -> Geshelli Labs newsletter -> the face plate seeming to be transparent and the chassis opaque (as in other Geshelli products); volume knob seems similar to other products as well -> your mentions of the J2 -> the unnamed stack comparision afterwards the dac comparision (based on their contents)
Well pieced together. I wondered how many people would make those connections. Of course, I could sit here and deny it until the review, but that's no fun. You're absolutely right - it's the Geshelli Labs E2 amp. I've had a prototype here and the production version is on its way for review soon...
@@PassionforSound Great news, will watch it for sure. I was very interested on buying an Erish a few months ago, now I'm actually glad cause buyers remorse would hit hard. :)
I bought the Topping E50 and compared it to my Schiit Modi Multibit, the Schiiit wins hands down! The tonality and texture of the of the Schiit is fleshed out which gives it more musicality and realism. The E50 may win in dynamics and bass slam but beyond that it sounds flat and 2 dimensional. My two cents!
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing your experiences. I'm not surprised on the depth of the Multibit being better. I can see a lot of people liking the dynamics of the E50 more, but I'm always a fan of depth and weight which is why I tend to really like the Schiit MB DACs
Are you using your mimby in a headphone or speaker based system? I'm finally upgrading from my well loved dacmagic in a speaker system and am in the $250 price range. Some great options, maybe too many.
@@DistroUser thanks. The mimby is in my short list, along with the gishelli j2. I almost got an E50, but Apos won't ship their returns to Canada. May have been a blessing
I don't believe it's a deliberate scam, but I'm also not a fan. I did some comparison listening a while back and found that standard FLAC versions of the same tracks had a better sense of detail and clarity. MQA seems to help Sigma Delta DACs to produce a better sense of space in the soundstage, but it comes at a cost of lost resolution. Personally, I prefer to listen to normal FLAC files through a Schiit Multibit or Chord DAC to get the soundstage AND the detail
Definitely saw that one - thanks. Was an interesting set of evidence to kind of prove what I was hearing. I wouldn't have expected the measurable differences to be as significant as they were so that was definitely eye opening
For the money the L50 is not competitive, 789 can be had for 200$ every now and then, SMSL sp200 and SH8 have better features for roughly the same price... L50 should've been $30 to $50 cheaper to make sense in the current market, specially when we factor that its competing against products that have been on the market for 2+ years and outperform it, granted said products werent priced the same at their respective launches, but still, if those manufacturers can afford to reduce prices...
I generally agree. My only contrast to what you've said is the the SP200 is a significantly inferior amp. The SH-8s and 789 offer strong competition. Keep in mind that the 789 isn't truly balanced (if that matters) and the SH-8s doesn't have the super low gain option IIRC (I'm not in my office to check)
@@PassionforSound I believe you're right, neither of the SMSL amps have a super low gain modes, and that was the compelling feature of the 789, whereas the SMSL products had more availability. Personaly, and trying to be as realistic as possible, for $200, i expect to have primarily output power, good enough to drive low loads
All good on the comparison. It's very hard to compare apples with apples when there are so many variables! You make good points about the value of different amps in different circumstances too - i.e. the idea of a versatile amp for a beginner is definitely more important than "perfect sound" with strong limitations of function.
I haven't tried the new D30. I still own and love the original, but would expect the E50 to be comfortably better given how easily it beats everything else I compared it to around the same price.
You must have very good hearing to be able to hear a difference between the E30 and the E50. Another reviewer review these recently and couldn't tell much difference but then again he had an ant crawling on the stack so maybe he wasn't really paying enough attention.
Lol. I'm basing my impressions on memory of the E30, but I'd be amazed of there's not a significant difference based on what I'm hearing in comparison to the other DACs I tried with against the E50.
@@topspin4hand yes he was talking about DACs and amps sounding so clean that he couldn't tell the difference between moderately priced and expensive units. Most of his rant was about expensive clean amps sounding the same as cheap ones. Then he went on to say that some expensive amps sound much better than others even though they don't measure as well.
@@kyron42 What I meant to say is that I don’t recall DMS saying Topping DACs all sound the same, just the amps, so if Lachlan is saying the E50 and E30 sound different, it’s possible. I wish I could hear them myself.
If we're talking about DMS' review then yes, he was focussed mostly on the amps. That said, I disagree that they all sound the same. Similar? Yes. Lacking some soul? Yes, but not identical. The DACs are subtley different based on my comparisons with other gear, but with DACs it's always pretty subtle. What you're generally hearing are subtle differences between power stages (filtering caps, etc.) and output stages (different op-amps, output caps, etc.) The sonic differences generally come down to transparency and detail retrieval, and occasionally some subtle tonality changes if one DAC has slightly grainier / smoother treble.
First thank you for the review. It's really insightful. I would like to ask for some suggestion. I'm owning Sennheiser HD650 and Moondrop Blessing 2 and looking for DAC and AMP (mainly for HD650) Which setup would you suggest 1. E50 + L50 stack 2. Modi 3+ and Asgard 3 3. E50 + Asgard 3 Other options are welcome. I mainly use my computer and Android phone as a source streaming using Tidal. I believe I will be fine with single end. Mainly listen to Classical Jazz Pop Acoustic genre (rock sometime but not hip hop or edm) Some more questions 1. Is MQA decoding in E50 make a significant different from Flac? 2. If Modi 3+ is recommended, Is it worth to upgrade to Modi Multibit? Thank you in advance.
Very interesting question! If you are predominantly using Tidal then I do think I would lean towards either an MQA capable DAC or a Schiit Multibit DAC. I haven't yet heard the Modi MB so can't say how it compares to the E50 and that makes this hard to answer. For the amp, I'd definitely go for the Asgard 3 - it's very hard to beat for the same price or a bit more. For the DAC, I think I'd probably go all Schiit and stick with the Modi MB, but the E50 with its MQA capabilities will also do really well so maybe decide if you want MQA decoding and which unit you like the look of better with the Asgard 3. Hope that helps!
@@PassionforSound Another question. I read on websites that Modi MB leans toward warm DAC and Asgard also a bit leaning toward warm AMP and HD 650 as a slightly warm as well. My question is will Modi MB+Asgard 3+HD650 will result in a quite warm setup? If I choose Topping E50 instead of Modi MB will it give me more detail? I don't know what i write will make any sense.
I do agree that the Asgard 3 and HD650 both lean towards warmth, but I think people overstate the sound of Schiit Multibit DACs. While they're not cold and analytical, they're also not super thick and warm like some R2R DACs. To be clear, I haven't heard the Modi MB, but I have owned the Bifrost 2, Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil and none are particularly warm - they just don't force the details in your face like a lot of delta sigma DACs. If you're concerned, the E50 is still a great choice, but it won't provide quite as much soundstage depth as you should hear from the Modi MB.
@@PassionforSound Thank you again. Tomorrow I will try E50 and L50 at the store and if it's too analytical I might probably go for the Schiit. Thank for the suggestion :))
You can get adapters for USB-C to USB-A so you can connect the supplied cable to your phone (supplied cable is USB-A for the source and USB-B for the DAC). Alternatively, you can buy USB-C to USB-B cables I think. Check places like Amazon and see what you find 🙂
Since the e50 is really good you should mention that one can just buy the e50 and pair it with a much better amp. No doubt the e50 would really shine , the L50 holds back what the e50 can really do..surprise you didn't do that , or well atleast you didn't mention u done that..that would be the way to go , forget the stack buy it e50 by itself and get a better amp .
I own and use the Mojo regularly, but never reviewed it because it's been around so long. I think there's a new one coming so it's likely I'll review that soon and compare to the original. As for the Hel, I'm not sure if that's one I'll get to because there's already some other Schiit content I'm working on, but we'll see...
@@PassionforSound so you feel mojo can give me good soundstage in 2022 in usb and optical formats ? Is it still work that buying .. but if something new is on the way do tell me about it
I do think it's worthwhile and, if the rumours are true, there'll be secondhand Mojos popping up on forums for good prices soon so that might be a good option. Just be sure to check that the battery life is still strong.
I think most Topping products are generally ok and sound fine, but they also tend to all sound very similar. These don't make me want to rush out and upgrade from my E30 and L30. I'll stick with these for my desktop as well as the Topping A30 pro, which is a fantastic headphone amp.
I agree, Ian. The benefits are generally incremental and there's a new product every other day so where do you stop? Dave, I don't agree that DACs are done. They're certainly reaching a point where the gains are minimal, but the E50 is clear evidence to me that there are still improvements to be had.
They all sound "similar" because they all already work way beyond the threshold of resolvable transparency/linearity, signal-to-noise ratio, distortion, crosstalk, output impedance that would affect certain headphones. They differ practically only in power output, features, appearance and price. I really doubt all these reviewers together would be able to pass the correctly set blind test of anything that came out in a recent year or two and that measure above the threshold of human hearing. The difference come from audible distortion, low(er) SNR, volume level, possibly higher output impedance, channel (in)balance, lack of power for certain headphones which will force amps to work at or beyond their limits. Everything else is just our imagination, mood and bias for whatever reasons.
It would do ok. Personally, I'd aim for something a little warmer in the amp department like an Asgard 3 or Jotunheim 2 from Schiit, but this stack is still solid
@@PassionforSound Well I am currently using the Lyr3 but I have just the basic Modi 3 DAC. I do not want to spend so much on the Bifrost 2 when I can get something like this, Maybe this DAC may pair well with the Lyr3?
In a blind test, the differences you thought you heard, would dissolve into nothing. Neither a DAC nor an amplifier should "sound". If everything works well, which is the case in 95% of cases, both components are neutral. This is, of course, a bitter fact. As a result, such a channel can survive only with difficulty... #hifiisnotvoodoo
Every single component in a device can alter its sound. Every resistor, capacitor, integrated chip or transistor in the signal path has its own sound. The idea that all devices sounds the same just doesn't stack up to the science when each of the components I just listed have measurable, quantifiable differences that are known to alter the sound (capacitance, inductance, ESR, slew rate, etc.)
@@PassionforSound I am familiar with these statements. They are arguably a part of the journey of every HiFi fan. There is only one effective therapy against Hi-Fi voodoo: blind tests. You still have this therapy ahead of you.☕
Let's consider that same theory in reverse. Have you tried swapping a component in a device (like a capacitor or a resistor)? I've done this on multiple amps so I'm speaking from experience. You?
