Hey DMS I'm a fan and love your videos/reviews. I just purchased the Sennheiser PC38X and I was wondering if you could recommend me a Dac/Amp that would pair well with these headphones for gaming/music. I prefer to spend 200 or less it doesnt matter if its a combo or separate. Thanks so much appreciate it!
@@ThankYou_AV from the looks of it, while they did fix it, they did not replace the headphoens that were damaged, while in previous years similar things happened with schiit amps and those guys did.
I too have the E30 + L30 stack , running HD660s. I am happy. Even at 0db gain (middle gain option), I’m sometimes between 9am and 11am on the volume knob. HD660s is a 150ohm headphone and fairly easy to drive
Is it possible to power the L30 with usb? i think I read somewhere I need to power it with a different USB port as the signal port, which i don't care about. I'm looking for a good value stack to power my new HD 6xx and the topping L30+E30 seems like the best option for me: I can get it easily on amazon where I live, affordable, good build, and people talk good things about it.
@@nasalmirror it is possible to run the Topping E30 DAC off a separate usb power supply. The L30 amp needs its power supply as its a 15v. Hope that helps
@@jmcc2736 yeah I meant the e30, sorry :D I was asking cause I have only 1 spot left in my power strip, and I didn't want to mess my whole setup. So powering the e30 from my pc usb would be perfect.
Dude, thank you so much for this review!! The 789 is too expensive for me but I have a topping d30 dac and this amp seems like the perfect match for my price point!!!
Got the E30, L30 stack. Completely agree on the 6xx part of the review. I also have a pair of Oppo PM 3s and they sounded outrageously good. 26 ohms versus 300 makes a big difference.
@@Bumper210 yep and @DMS needs to review the CENTRANCE v2 HiFi-M8 Portable Amp/Dac to see how it drives the 600ohm Beyers ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_r1RrAPpgRw.html
Why is that? Should the amp be able to run those headphones without a problem? Sorry I am new to audio stuff and I'm looking to get into it. Right now I'm thinking of dt 880 and JDS atom or this l30 but idk what to get for dac
Interestingly this measures as one of the cleanest most distortion free headphone amplifiers on the market, also the frequency response is dead flat. So it's very strange that you were running into distortion and frequency response issues..
I have just finished my review few hours ago on Topping E30+L30 and compared it with my previous Tempotec. This stack is neutral, excellent mid and treble but the bass isn't as good. Don't get me wrong, bass is good - but not excellent. I'm using Focal Clear, Moondrop Blessing 2 & HD6XX.
The topping has higher power output than the atom only if your dac can output more than 2V. Atom is slightly more powerful and louder on higher impendance headphones. 4.5 x on high gain is higher than +9db (3x) on the topping. I have both the atom and L30 , on the 13 ohms aeon flow open, topping sounded a little better, similar volume on unity gain.
I bought the L30 used and did not put too much thought in it since ASR highly praised it. I paired it with the Sundaras. I was surprised that you said you'd pair the Sundara with a beefier AMP. I need to drive the Sundaras in low gain mode here otherwise they are way too loud. So it's not overall volumne, can you explain how Sundaras would benefit from a stronger Amp?
Absolutely stunning . I use it as a pre amp. It nailed any other pre amp in the house. Even 3000 euros stuff. No noise. Definition. Breath. Gain. With serious music....never heard such perfection.
Just got topping L30 for sundara. I’ve kept it on +9db and the output is still weaker than my tiny fiio E11. I did try daisy chaining both amps with seemingly good results but am worried about the noise creeping in. Also, fiio being a portable battery driven amp needs to be charged frequently. That’s the reason I was keen on L30. However, it does not seem as impressive as the reviews say. That at least has been my experience.
I use the l30 as a pre-amp it's brilliant at that. I haven't enjoyed its headphone preformance much , just don't find it engaging. The headphone out on my poweramp has that fun and engagement though so I'm happy.
hi sorry to bother you but it is how I intend to use it i. e. As a line preamp Unfortunately i got a 2009 unit series the defective one but I am willing to rebuy another one updated Could you elaborate your opinion as a line stage? Does it provide a good soundstage? thanks a lot gino
@@gino3286 hi I'm still using mine daily it's currently being used as a buffer for headpones and speakers. Its one of the updated models that was provided by topping as a part of recall. Definitely don't recommend using the early models. Mine is a 2012 code, the 2009 is pre static protection but has the DC protection update I think. As a preamp it's been problem free however my speaker situation is a long way from ideal (bad room bad placment and listing position) so I'm not really in a position to comment on soundstage stuff since I get almost none anyway.
@@chrisvinicombe9947 hi thanks for the very kind and valuable advice I am placing an order now I want to hear how zero noise and distortion sound The price is 150 euro in Italy The seller has confirmed about the serial number 2012 or above I will miss a remote control by the way Kind regards Gino
For those reading this in the present time. Topping recalled all the effected amps and replaced them. All amps now being sold have this problem fixed and are not at risk of damaging your headphones, so don't worry. If you buy from a reputable seller like Linsoul, Apos, or Shenzhen, you'll be fine. If buying used check the serial number and see if it begins with 2012 or higher, if so, then it is one of the models with the improved protection circuit so that it won't blow your headphones. It's a solid amp and as long as you have one that was made after the changes you'll be fine. The further into the future you are when reading this comment the better, they continue to make changes and fix issues with these amps on new revisions, so they'll be even better if you're reading this a few months from now.
Sources?, because is a still an ongoing issue; maybe only some sellers sent theirs back but Topping haven recall all; at least not on Latin America and still killiing headphones.
@@gregwx I can only speak for the UK. But if you purchased one of the older (pre 2011 serial) models, brand new, from anywhere respectable, then you would be provided with a free replacement no questions asked for a newer model.
@@gregwx JohnYang1997 on the Audio Science Review forum. For those that are unaware John Yang is Topping's lead designer, he's the guy that made the amp, and he serves as their liaison to the forum. On a side note ASR is a great place for technical info on all kinds of audio stuff.
Re L30 specs vs Atom. The L30’s power rating is based on 3V input voltage on high gain, but most DACs output 2V. To get the extra power you can chain 2 L30s together.
Nice review! The L30 supposed to be an A90 Single ended version, both by specs and components. Is there a difference sound between this and the SE of A90? Thanks again!
I am so glad to see your review, since I was about to buy Topping E30/L30 stack for my Hifiman Sundara. Guess I would look else where. BTW, what do you recommend for under $300?
I think what your doing is great, but it's very concise. I think it'd be better if you go a bit by providing more details, maybe a longer video. Maybe a side by side comparison with other headphone amps? (physically and actually listening to it side by side with other amps). Is there really a big difference (or obvious difference) maybe you can't tell the difference against its competitor within its price range? I still love your content but for me it felt rushed. I also love the recommended headphones.
I'm looking to buy Liquid Spark (probably more similar to Atom) or L30 (both are available on Canadian Amazon). I read somewhere they say L30 lacks sub bass impact buy then another guy mentioned L30 sounds more "special" and Liquid Spark just sounds normal. Like Liquid Spark is suppose to have some recess on female vocal / string instruments while L30 has less bass, but I listen to songs with both frequencies a lot lol. I have Denon D2000 which is the older brother of D5200, any of you guys have any recommendation regarding this pairing?
@@fwabble I read the numbers, if you look at only numbers L30 wins by far. But I find I often like the sound of gears that didn't measure well so these days I'm more interested in actual listening experience than numbers lol.
DMS, have you tried or do you have opinions about the Geshelli Labs Enog2 Pro Dac and Archel Pro Amp? I know there's already the 2.5 and balanced amps but haven't seen much about the gen 1 amp and the Enog2 Pro dac
I'm confused, Did you have it on 0db for all power tests? Why did you not put it on the +9db mode? This has more power than the JDS Atom Amp, but you have to put it on high gain.
@@DMS3TV I just did a bit of digging from the audiosciencereview's measurements, it seems at 32 ohms this amp will do 1 watt of power, but at 300 ohms, it drops to 117 mw. The JDS Atom Amp at 32 ohms will do 1.1 watt, but at 300 ohms will do 250 mw of power. Pretty interesting. What's your top recommendation for a budget DAC/AMP Stack or setup right now? Debating between the Topping L30/E30 (I have right here) or the JDS Atom Stack. The amp's seems comparable with the L30 measuring slightly better but less power. The DAC's are pretty different though, the JDS Atom DAC does not have TOSLINK input which is something I use .
I would like to try for a brief period of time to listen at the exact volume the reviewers do for their reviews. I know I'm quite sensitive to high volume, but nonetheless I'm always amazed by how much juice their cans need to sound the way they are supposed to.
I use this amplifier with Sundaras and I like it a great deal. To be honest, I don’t understand why he’s getting such poor power out of the unit because the Sundara’s run in low gain as do many of my other headphones. It’s super smooth, can’t recommend this amplifier enough.
I don’t understand why reviewers use $1000 headphones to review $100 amps or dacs. It would be much more useful to viewers if you just spoke about how the amp or dac performs with a range of headphones in a relative price range
this kills the magni in eu market, for ex. it costs me around 210$ to get a magni from schiit eu including customs which sucks while I can get an l30 from aliexpress and with customs it will cost me 160$ max
Chinese products almost always beat american ones in EU market, mostly because it has lower availability, higher cost and the "made in america" has no meaning to most of us, i would say
Hi! i got a question. I have the L30 paired with E30, and using ATH m50 while waiting for sundara to be shipped. I noticed on my ATH, there is an very audible noise floor/humm on the amp. Is that normal? it is VERY noticable when switching to +9 on 12 o clock. I might even say it is disturbing how loud that humm is.
@@eetu2532 Nvm fixed the problem. It was because I had RCA AND and normal 3.5 aux connected to my speakers. Unplugged the Aux and it works perfectly now
i am planning on stacking sanskit 10 mk2 with L30(360$ combined). since this is more affordable and value for money that the schiit stack in australia which costs 520$
I was trying to get DT 1990 pro and atom stack as my first set up. But when I tried dt1990 pro in the local headphone shop, there is no atom available. They gave me ifi zen can and ifi zen dac. I would like to know if ifi zen can and ifi zen dac is worthy to buy at this budget range(200-300 usd) for my dt 1990 pro :D
I would say it depends on the DAC you use, and if it has a beefy output. Mine doesn't and hence the L30 really struggled with my 770's 250 ohms to the point where it's not usable. +9 gain and still not loud enough until about 3 o'clock setting. My DAC is the D10s.
Did you review the THX 789. I've used it with E30 dac and Ananda. Not satisfied with it. I assume L30 is similiar. Overall soulless sound with weak bass. Technically good though. Transients are fast but overall sound is soft. Also felt like there is an artificial air.
I've felt the same way about the 789. Upgraded to a Schiit Asgard 3 a while ago, which has the soul that the 789 lacks. No hazy/edgy/peaky brightness either. Technically on par with the 789 too.
These are neutral 'wire with gain' type of amps. Ananda is not a bass monster so that's what you're going to hear. I would use EQ, Oratory1990 suggests a 5.5dB bass boost.
Weird question for anyone: Will the more expensive 'Element 2' from JDS Labs be more enjoyable to listen to than a Topping L/E30 stack? I'm unsure if "clean" means that it'll be too clinical for my Senn. Jubilee's.
Guys, I am a real noob into the audio I bought Sennheiser 660S with topping D10 DAC and Aune X7s headphone amp was it a good choice? I don't have anything to compare it to although I like the sound of it I think it is a little lacking at lows, now I am looking to order little dot MK2 is it a good choice?
The whole Sennheiser 600 series is what I would call "a little lacking at lows", that's not where they shine.. the 660S isn't particularly hard to drive, so even if there's perceivable difference it might just not be what you're looking for.. if you can try the little dot and send it back give it a try.. wouldn't buy it from China directly, though..
1:22 what are those connectors called? i have a pair of klipsch & i have nothing to power it. its got negative & positive ground on each pair. what Amp is good for Klipsch R-41M?
A good stack battle around $200 would be nice (heresy+modi, atom stack, L30+E30,drop grace SDAC+ O2, enog2+archel2, liquid spark stack if we get lucky)
@@NWGR it is, but only on US soil, in europe is easier to get a topping stack, so does in México since exportation brings prices up to 300 dolars or more, the topping stack conserves its price. Even with all this I still getting the atom stack even if I am mexican.
@@pc_decisions8764 Very true. Atom stack would be my second choice. I'm not a fan of topping gear, because if something goes wrong, you have the long wait+shipping cost to china. The Gehshelli stuff is quality too.
@@dannybos7024 I did asking if there was another plug I could use and they said this one was specifically designed for the L30. I contacted them through Amazon though.
With a 300 Ohm load, the L30 pushes 117 mW while the Asgard 3 pushes 651 mW. So yeah, the Asgard 3 is much more capable of handling high impedance loads well.
At 600 Ohm Load Asgard 3, it’s 300 mW. Supposedly the 880 needs 100 mW or just because the requirement is met doesn’t tell the whole story why DMS hooks it up to a speaker amp.
@@RonnyC98 I guess it's just because he tries things and the speaker amp works for him. In theory the Asgard 3 should have no issues powering the DT880/600 but there are definitely cases where the specs just don't line up with the reality at all, naturally taking into account that spec sheets are often best-case-scenario's. Either way I can't imagine that the Asgard 3 wouldn't have what it takes to properly drive the DT880/600's.
Not enough power? Either your standard listening is at 120dba or you must be inputting too low voltage into the amp. It can power the T50rp and T60rp easily on mid gain. On high gain you can get the T60rp to 125dba (and kill your ears in seconds) Somethings must be wrong. Also distortion? I dont know...
@@pinusmasterful R70X (great headphone btw) is pretty sensitive despite its high impedance. Not too hard to drive. Big inefficient planars is where the L30 struggled most,
I would like to get Atom but they really cheaped out on the enclosure and the knob. Make it $120 but address those problems. That's a much better product.
I'd honestly much rather get the clean sound of the Atom and have a bit of a cheaper chassis, than the glaring Schiit sound. It's not like I'll be throwing it around anyways.
@@dannybos7024 I agree. You shouldn't be throwing your atom around and play with it like a toy. Keep it put on your desk and you are good. JBL makes very reliable products.
These reviewers have either already ruined their hearing, or have no idea about gain staging by not describing the whole signal chain when they 'recommend' ridiculous things like this. It's probably a little bit of both, in addition to at best level matching by ear, which is seriously flawed.
J P tube amps (called preamps on that side of audio) for mics mostly. It’s significantly easier to use 12au/ax/at7s to change gain on a mic pre and made my workflow easier when I owned the studio.
@@DMS3TV So? Do you mean you're an EE and design original circuits from scratch? If that's the case, your statements are even stranger. I'm pretty sure I know why you and a few other reviewers claim bizarre things like 'it sounds better with or needs high gain', and 'you need 10 watts of "headroom" for this headphone', and it's not just you that says weird things like this. Remember, signal chain includes playback software too. Unless an amp is clipping, two well designed amps like the Atom and L30 will not sound different, period. Listening to either amp at clipping would lead to long-term, if not immediate, hearing damage even with lower sensitivity headphones. The math to show this is really simple. Hearing loss is actually why I bring these things up, I guess if you guys want to damage your hearing as an audiophile that's up to you, but recommending dangerous practices to others is not cool. I guess that makes me a twat *shrug*
I think Topping haven't properly disclosed how they got to that power output. On some measurements seen on forums, they were feeding it with up to 4V or 5V to prove how clean it is, but again not sure if max power output is achieved with standard 2V or more
@@pr0gre551ve Of course you did, they are both designed with the express purpose of being objectively neutral, and have virtually the same output with a given input as I mentioned (or sufficient enough output to cause permanent hearing damage with any headphone.) DMS' whole take on the differences between these amps is a joke.
I tried 13 dacs between the two amps at a variety of voltages. The atom consistently had more headroom for drive. I’m going to report my findings honestly and if you have a problem with that, it’s on you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It’s still a fine amp.
I have had this amp for 3 weeks now teamed up with e30 and i can drive all 15 different headphones i own from 32 ohm to 300 easily, if go past 3 o clock i think ill go deaf any one that turns the volume past 3 o clock needs to clean the ear wax out their ears or get a hearing test.
@@DMS3TV thanks for your reply's i think this review has opened up a can of worms regarding matching headphones to amps and dacs, maybe you could do a video on this!!! cheers
I had a look at the website and they say I quote : Over the years, we have witnessed many companies claiming ridiculous numbers with no proof to back up their claims. High output power, low distortion, and high dynamic range. Ultra High-Performance NFCA Modules Surpassing The Limits Of APX555B Excellent Amplifier + Preamp TOPPING L30 is capable of powering all different kinds of headphones, from highly sensitive IEMs to power demanding full-size headphones High output power, low distortion, and high dynamic range..... .......... Then they mention an output power of 2300 mw @ 32homs ??????? It doesn't look like you are talking about the same amp 😂😂
Still those claims are open to interpretation. 2300 mW @ 32 ohms is the peak output (NOT continuous), based on a 3 Vrms input signal (The vast majority of dedicated DACs on the market are limited to 2 Vrms), and due to the amp being voltage-limited the power output plummets with higher impedance loads. It can barely push 50 mW into 600 Ohm loads.
@@JSym92 so really there are they are making a lot of noise for an amp that can just about compete with a £100 jdsLabs or shiit amp , at least those brands are more humble ....
@@jps38 Bingo! And this is why I tend to limit myself to brands that let their products do the selling instead of advertising with misleading/irrelevant information. The reality is that a -90 dB THD+N is already clean beyond our ability to hear. Yet somehow people aren't impressed anymore when they see an amp not even hitting -115 dB THD+N lol. In fact, having owned/tried lots of different amps in that budget range, I've found JDS (EL Amp) and Schiit (Asgard 3) to deliver subjectively better sound than Topping/SMSL/THX amps around that same price range lol, even though measurements would suggest the opposite.
@@jps38 Ya, and those brands may quote power without distortion, so no different there. Quoting 'max power' at or near clipping, even with distortion figures, is easy to misrepresent.
![Topping L30 - REVIEW [Is this an ATOM Killer?]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
