I bet you can feel the difference when you're playing them. My guess is the torrefied guitar vibrates a lot more than the one without. Both guitars sound good but the torrefied guitar sounds more resonant to me. You've got the talent to make them all sound good! Nice video.
I preferred the rich tonality, warmth, and volume of the regular top. The torrified one sounded thinner, weaker, and a bit nasal. I liked the look of the torrified top, but not it's sound. That was an interesting comparison. Thanks
The sound of the torrified top is a bit less crisp but worm and round, not sure about the loudnes... Mabye the same volume on both Guitars but just a different sound structure...
I think most folks can hear a difference, but it might be a little hard to say which sounds “better” to them. I will say, I feel like the torrefied one needs to have a kill switch; that sustain is really incredible! I am really interested in the science of it, and will probably buy a torrefied wood instrument within the next year.
I've enjoyed your playing on your videos. I've listened to this one repeatedly in an attempt to decide my preference. I appreciate your videos. Thank you.
I forgot to tell you. Listening to your vids really helped me decide to get my 2019 Gibson J45 standard heritage cherryburst. I love it and the guy that sold it to me has tried to buy it back twice with an open invitation to sell it back at any point. I dont plan to sell it. However, more people need to listen to your vids. They're very helpful with a good pair of headphones. To a trained ear, you can hear that nuance one may be looking for, my family and I have been a martin family for a long time. So, I branched out and became a blasphemer, got a Gibson, couldn't be happier.
It's like anything it depends on the maker. Some builders that torrify their tops have nailed the formulae and their guitars are exceptional. Although they will never replicate the true effect of time they sound more open and alive, which are characteristics that new guitars seem to lack
Very well spoken :) i have heard better torrified guitars then in this video. I liked the non torrified guitar more in THIS video, but some torrified guitars i have heard are super and i also plaid a torrified guitar i really like (Yamaha FGx3)
Thank you so much for this video, and all of the others. There is a quality and consistancy that that can be trusted, when not able to play the guitar in person. I prefer the non-TC version in this clip.
Hi, I am thinking of purchasing a Taylor 117e Grand Pacific guitar with the torrified spruce top I have only heard it played on RU-vid videos it does sound really nice and it looks good too but I want to make sure that I am making the right choice. I am not a beginner I have been playing guitar on and off since I was younger but with big gaps in between the years. I only started taking the guitar more seriously in the past few years so I'm really still at the intermediate stages even though I can play and sing a good number of songs. I have been playing a Fender CD 60 -SCE electro acoustic solid spruce top dreadnought for the past 3 years and I love the sound of it even though it is a low budget guitar I was using the standard d, darrio bronze strings on this guitar but I swapped them for the higher price Ernie Ball paradigm phosphor Bronze strings recently and It sounds pretty good I have looked after this guitar it's still in excellent condition hardly any wear on the frets. I'm giving it to my 20 year old daughter as she is just learning to play. I also own a Fender villager California series 12 string acoustic which I purchased a year ago and I love this guitar too I'm just really looking for a decent price Taylor six string dreadnought with something different to offer I love the sound of older vintage guitars and also the modern brighter sound I was hoping that the Taylor 117e would definitely deliver the tone that I'm looking for or something close even though it is not a vintage guitar. I am just a bit wary and want to make sure I don't really need a high end expensive Taylor I just want a nice sounding guitar that won't go above my budget. If the Taylor 117e can truly deliver even a bit of this vintage sound then that's fine can anyone advise me on this also enjoyed your video Thanks Andy , Glasgow 😍🏴
Using Beyerdynamics DT990 headphones there's definitely a difference at first strum. Both sound great. In laymen's terms new top sounds like a new fresh out of the box acoustic. Torrified sounds like an old 50 year old acoustic well played. Again both sounds great, just personal preference. Which did you prefer Ian?
The beauty of buying a new standard top is a that you can play for a couple years and one day(when it opens up) you'll get a brand new guitar without costing a dime. A test I would love to hear is a comparison between two identical models, a standard top that has been played long enough to open up and a brand new torrefied (thermo-cured) top to see if torrefication truly gives the same result as a well played guitar.
Hey Patrick, I'm trying to understand the whole 'opening up' thing. Would that happen if it sat in the case for a couple years? Or does it have to come with vibrations? Any idea what happens (structurally? chemically to the finish?) that opens it up? I think I remember hearing Jason Isbell talking about parking a new acoustic in front of speakers and letting them blast. I thought he was kidding, but ...
@@tomokra Truth be told, I'm not sure. I'm guessing most people would say vibrations are required. I've heard of strapping acoustics to speakers or using either Tone Traveler or ToneRite devices for break-in. That being said, I have a Breedlove Focus maple concert guitar that sat in the case for a several years while I went through an electric guitar phase. I continued to ignore it while I went through a Yamaha Transacoustic phase. When I finally pulled the Breedlove out of the case and played it, the tone was incredible, it had all kinds of overtones, resonance and sustain. So did it open up while sitting in the case or had I forgotten how great it sounded? With a choice between ignoring a new, non-torrefied guitar or playing the crap out of it, I heartily recommend playing.
@@el34glo59 I've had the same model torrefied dreadnoughts, one rosewood and one mahogany, and I can hear a huge difference between the two woods. Since the sides and back are not baked, I wonder if the torrefied top is opening more or if that is the sides and back opening up? Anything that makes my guitars sound better is fine with me
@@patricklundquist9869I think its everything. Back and sides become a guitar and not a tree. The glue hardening and becoming one piece too. And the top opening up Unless you mean a difference between the two back woods? I mean they're gonna sounded different you know that. I took ot as you hear a big difference, on both of them, as they age? Is that what you're saying
I would not want a torified top to improve sound quality. I would hope that it would improve the stability of the wood. I am looking to buy a guitar and there are a lot of unplayable guitars in the big stores. To be honest I am scared to spend too much money for a guitar for fear that it will morph into an uplayable mess in short order. I am considering a torrefied top in the hopes that it will improve the stability of the top. Regarding sound quality, I think there is room for improvement for thermo cure.
The guy at Santa Cruz Guitars says that torrified guitars never “age” beyond 7 years. So, according to him, you get a really nice sounding guitar out of the box, but you will never get the tone of a 50+ year old Martin or Gibson. I guess it depends on your age...at age 64, I would probably buy the torrified top. But, if I was 24 again, would certainly buy the unbaked one. BTW, love the look of the striped top on the standard top.
My 10 year old Eastman was not played much for the first 10 years, and sounds as bright as the non Tc, is very resonant, but maybe just a bit warmer, but not as warm as the Tc. Very very pleasant though. I came on here as intrigued between naturally aged and Tc top. So I guess I prefer natural ageing as sounds more responsive. Mind you can't go wrong with either
@@akfisher7138 “natural aging” doesn’t mean the guitars sits in a case.... it needs to be played! That is why your 10 year old Eastman still sounds “ bright’ like a new guitar. I have Takamine P4DC that is only 5 years old, but has 2,000+ hours of play time, and it has the tone of a vintage guitar. The top needs to vibrate for hundreds / thousands of hours to age the guitar. Your Eastman didn’t age or open up during the first 10 years, it just got “old”. Play it! P.S. Helpful hint: don’t put it in the case unless you live in the desert, and need to humidify it constantly... Any instrument in a case gets played much less than one right at hand. Humidity is not a problem where I live, so I leave out of the case, so it takes no effort to pick up and play! P.S.S. I have lived in China for 12 years, and have been to the Eastman factory in Beijing. Great guitars!
@@jed1166 Yes I probably exaggerated the history of being in a case, as I will never know; it was secondhand-it has been used as there are minor scratches-but not beat up. It is certainly a bit brighter than the tC, but with more sustain than the brand new one. It has dried out and has certainly opened up compared to new ones I tried. Lovely in fact. The TC process just mimics the drying out part-sort of. It will be interesting to hear how the TC ones are after extensive playing too. Ideally you would apply the TC process and subject the guitar to typical audible vibrations at the same time....I agree about the case. It now sits on a stand or mostly on my lap!
The non torrefied top sounds greener. I have waged more money o. This back and forth, an in person they both have their merits , but the T-Top sounds close to vintage instrument .
I like your channel so much. Allways nice performing and good tone quality. Both guitars are nice, but i prefer the baked one. As late beginner there is no time or enough money to get a vintage tone guitar. I love the sound of my Yamaha AC3M A.R.E. Now i'm struggling with Martin. OOO13E or OOO18(E) 🤷♂️ Any thoughts? Best wishes from Germany
The bass is much stronger in the standard top your playing. The overall sound is more mellow in the thermo cured top. Both sound really good. Choosing between the two you played, I preferred the sound of the standard top over the tc top.
Hi, thanks. I played the E6OM-TC yesterday, my impression is very positive about the medium-low frequencies, too bad for the evanescent cantini C and E.
To me the torrefied top sounds more dry (vintage) and woody and it will still open up over time. More 'honest' acoustic tone from the torrefied one, like fine wine. But that is my opinion. I own an Eastman AC-222 CE LTD with ovankol back and sides and torrefied top and it does feel more resonant and vintage at the same time. Only time will tell how they will open up.
To my ears a dovetail neck joint and hide glue make a big difference......I don't understand why any 2k guitar and up wouldn't be made without hide glue? Is it that expensive?
It's hard to use. And you have secs to set everything. If you don't set it perfectly immediately you're screwed. Also it just harder to get ready. Has to be heated in a pot. Need to make joints absolutely perfect to use it. It won't fill joints. In a large production setting, that takes alot of time up and skills
same answers with the other i read, they both sound good just a matter of preference or might as well have them both Lol.. good comparison with new top new sound and thermocured old sound =)
I thought the same as some other people. To me the regular model sounds better, more open and rich! This TC might be more of a hype and a looks thing. The annoying thing is some of these models you can only find TC version where I live. Or maybe they just discontinued the regular models. I'd rather have the guitar age naturally and save money at the same time.
It's funny, but I have the feeling that whenever I listen to a guitar with a torrefied top, its midrange is less present. This gives a bit of a hollow character to the overall sound of the instrument.
As far as I know is that the TC are regular spruce and the non TC are still the Adi tops. This is way Eastman is going forward. No more Adi as I suspect it costs for for an Adi top than a TC one. One of the issues that has come up that the TC tops sound mellow at the expense of definition right at the start whereas naturally aged tops take a lot longer to get mushy and losing their definition. Just a observation.
My 10 year old Eastman sounds a bit like both! Loads of sustain. Do you think you can have too much sustain? Anyone? What strings do you think are best for this guitar? Thank you
@@patricklundquist9869 True, but lots of Jazz guitars do not have sustain so that the music does not become too muddy, when comping chords. I was wondering if there is indeed a point when the top is too resonant.
@@akfisher7138 Completely different animal. I'm not sure that any one guitar can do it all. For jazz on a steel string acoustic I'd be more apt to forego torrefied acoustics and choose an F hole archtop or a Gypsy jazz guitar (not that I play jazz). For nylon string acoustic tones I would totally go with a Godin Multiac but now we're heading towards electric guitars which opens a huge can of worms. I also find that back and sides have a huge effect on muddiness. Rosewood sounds lush but can mud up quickly when played harder while mahogany or maple back and sides can maintain clarity. Different guitars for different types of music and playing styles. This may sound a bit aerie faerie but I believe you need to listen to a guitar and it will tell you how it wants to be played. There have been a number of dream guitars that I have brought home and then struggled with for days because I was trying to play them like a previous guitar. For example the sweet spot for picking my Eastman Double Top DT30-GACE is over the bridge end of the sound hole whereas the sweetspot on my 1995 standard braced Martin J-40 is very close to the neck end of the sound hole. Play either one in the wrong place and it just sounds wrong. The good news is, this justifies owning more guitars.
tone is darker, muddier, and less clear with the Torrefied guitar. Could be the strings... TBH I prefer the standard, Adirondack has a great bright tone on its own
