Town of Salem 2 NEW All Roles Tier List 

Ideal coven lineup CL, Rit, Witch, Conj = CL, Rit, PM, Conj

A nice buff for Vigi would be to make their last bullet a powerful attack - like a “a silver bullet”. It makes successful vigis more powerful in the endgame

If they want to buff war I had a fun idea: When war comes to the town; all non-apocalypse roles loses their regular abilities; and instead gains a powerful attack at night; and apocalypses gain powerful defense; to both allow the NA’s a chance to push ahead; and also serve as a potential distraction for War.

The veteran’s lower kill rate is because of the higher proportion of astral visiting roles in TOS2

I think Jester should be S+, because the mere existence of jester makes the voting phase extra interesting and has everyone think twice before voting

I think If the Deputy gets the correct shot, they should become a Sheriff. The town will still see them as Deputy but the Deputy can investigate at night. This will give the Deputy something to do after they have shot and can still be helpful to town. Also, come on, it makes sense. A Deputy being promoted to Sheriff. It will be like the VH from ToS1 becoming a Vigilante after the Vampires are gone.

Yo if you do a tier list in the future, I’d recommend combining the NA “half-roles” together just bc you don’t get Death as a role. The strength of the half role is affected by how good their transformation is and is an important factor in how fun the role is to play!

Here's my idea about Veteran. In ToS 1, there was Mafia, Coven, NK, NC, and a whole lot of roles for each of them. You could have a Mafioso+Janitor combo walk into you, a PM, a Vampire and Jugg. Boom, 6 kills. But now, since theres only two factions. (Not counting Apocalypse as unique) If an enchanter walk into you. The coven know and thats it. No more kills. I feel like theres less random chance for a different faction to happen to walk into you, and less of a reason to go and kill you. Because of Rit or Doom. If you have any feedback, write it in the comments below.

I think Doomsayer should be permitted to guess 1 TI out of their 3 guesses, but no more than that. Most townies are already hesitant to claim outright anyway because of ritualist.

Some thoughts on how to make Coroner and Amne more fun and impactful. Coroner: First of all I'd make Coroner able to find real roles of people. When you autopsy a dead player, you can find the role and will of those turned to stone, as well as the real role and will of those altered by an enchanter. Amne: Make it neutral again, however make it keep the random element. On night 2, into Day 3 you will remember a random role among those in the graveyard. No alert will be given when an amne remembers. This could let you be a replacement NA, a 5th coven if one days, a replacement town power, or even an NK, jest, or exe. It avoids the kingmaker scenario as you will always transform on a specific night, and you don't choose who you become. This could also help extend games and give a faction some comeback power.

Dreamweaver+jinx is a decent combo Plus Amnesiac needs a rework the role is basically you a town role but get your abilities later in the game.

"Killing people is fun, who's kidding who?" - Pipetron 2023

Bodyguard is one of my favorite roles, low pressure role and I'm less likely to be in an end game situation where I need to try and pick between the last evil and the last town. Overall just a nice stress free role.

Shouldn't split up the Apocalypse roles into pre- and post- transforming. Baker/Famine etc are the same role, they should never be in different tiers.

Plague bearer is probably at least D tier because unlike the baker you actually get information about the roles based off visits at nights and you can know who certain evils are and where claims are accurate or not.

Judge apocalypse roles as a whole, splitting them like this makes no sense because there are 0 scenarios where you start as Famine, or have to stay as the Baker forever (willingly)

Thanks pipe, now I can spirit bomb coroner claims!

I believe that hexed people showing up inno is actually a buff, as it hides the fact that there's a HM in the game, and draws less attention to hexed people

I feel like the reason War isn’t as scary as the other NApoc is because you always know if a war is coming, but the other horsemen are way harder to know if they exist

To buff Pest I think it would be cool to have the plague cause a speech debuff to any non-apoc effected. It would decrease the amount of words a player could type at once, and increase the time between a player’s messages. That way the pb is not as useless but it also buffs the pest greatly once everyone is infected.

An interesting buff to Coroner could be a 3/game option to 'restore' a corpse at night, revealing it's real role/will to everyone if it was stoned/forged, and then have the day action be to investigate people for signs of being the killer of some one who's in the graveyard currently (not a 'blood check' but a 'they killed one of the corpses in the graveyard') meaning they could confirm crus/vet/vig also incase some one's fake claiming it too. Invest could also get a buff of 'this house reeks of gas/illness' but without being a 'this is, for sure the arsonist/pb' but allow players to find them Arso could use a buff by causing them to also douse a random adjacent house to the targeted house, allowing for more rapid, if kinda random, dousing

You know coroner might be better if it worked more like the psychic. Autopsy a body at night and you get 3 suspects one of whom is the killer. Cant hit the same corpse multiple times to narrow it down but if you hit the coven target 2 consecutive nights theres a good chance to find who has the book.

15:47 I was once playing as Conjurer with the book in a TT game where our TT Crusader died early on. We had to get the revealed Mayor out of the way, but knew there was a Bodyguard in the game. I told my Illusionist to go on me and killed the Mayor, bypassing the BG. We pushed and successfully hanged the BG the next day, winning us the game after killing some of the last people.

Pipe do you hate playing AS trickster, or do you hate playing AGAINST trickster?

It could be interesting if Doomsayer unlocks the ability to doom TIs after a certain amount of time or condition is met. Maybe that might be too much but idk. Just a thought

Pipe you forgot to mention that hex master’s hex bomb can kill invincible defense like NA

Imagine a Coroner doing a necromancer style of command at night, like choosing a corpse and a live town member at the same night. That would be OP.

I think Doomsayer turning into a new role that's basically ToS1 SK after there's not enough viable options would be great - they'd still be able to win, and how they play the rest of the game would be important. Jester would also work but I feel like it wouldn't be as good personally? I don't know, it'd just feel kinda boring, and would reward playing poorly earlier in the game.

Suggested balances Vet Alerting and killing a non town role will give another charge (max 1 per night) Or Veterans can mimic neutral killing styles so during day phase their death will seem to be due to that NK instead of a veteran allowing the vet to survive without any coven or NAs immediately knowing their teammate visited a veteran Coroner 3 charges: can watch a target, if the target dies the coroner will get the killers name and role. Also if anyone tries to destroy last wills or change the victims role they will be seen by the coroner as someone tampering with evidence Trickster Roleblocks target and informs trickster they tried to kill them, now they have to convince town war During day war can choose two players, at start of night they will have both players play Rock Paper Scissors, loser dies and draws count as loss for both Or all players have +1 offense Arso Dousing another arso will inform both the other is an arso and won’t douse them. Pros Can choose to drop their case and let the victim go Bg Targets know if they are guarded regardless of bg dying

An interesting way to change coroner might be to let it choose as many people to check at night as they want, but not tell them which of the people they checked is the killer. It could narrow down small groups like psychic or confirm groups as not a certain killer

I feel like vigilantes final shot should be a powerful one similar to sks bloodlust.

I think the Doomsayer should have an extra option "Town Investigative" that only unlocks once there are 6 players or less left at the start of the night.

Ideal coven lineup = none of my teammates leaving Day 1

I feel like a good exi play is doing the admirer strat telling someone confirmed that that you are going to hook up with your exe target than go silent. XD

Voodoo + Dreamweaver is a good combo Conj + Hex is good since Conj could blast the final unhexed person as needed Conj in general is useful for securing the early, mid, or late game Witch would be nice for information gathering, as would Wilding I think my ideal team would probably be: Wilding, Voodoo Master, Dreamweaver, and Ritualist

take a shot every time pipe says "whose kidding who"

Idk if this is a good shroud buff but: There will always be at least two (they don’t know who the other is) And if they attack/shroud the same target it becomes powerful attack I’m not sure if they should know each other or not tho

Ideal coven lineup Cl, Rit, Pm, Hex. The reason id say this is better than what pipe's is that the information from pmer is stronger than more killing potential and Hex when you think about it if things go well 1 hexed person = 1 dead person given them more killing potential than a conj or a rit. ritualist is also way better than conjurer because most of the time you already know the role of the person you are metoring

I think trickster is good, it’s like a better bodyguard now. Sure it’s frustrating when you get taunted, but most people when playing the role well will only taunt people with suspicious chat or no chat, so to play around it as an evil you just pretend to be town. I think it’s fair and fun provided skill levels in the game increase.

i love necro its my personal favorite coven role just due to 1 play i had where i shut down 2 apoc members endgame due to monarch and cleric plays and carried my coven who all were basically purple jesters cause they all died so fast due to stupid moves.

i kind of want to see a game where its 3 hex masters and a coven leader against a really powerful town. as a role list i feel like that would result in some pretty crazy fast paced games.

Why would you seperate apoc into 2? Should treat them as 1. How would you rate each apoc?

31:34 "You can stop the doomsayer from dooming, you can stop the ritualist from ritualisting." I'M DYING RN HELP

Ive already played a ton of games and the amount of times I get game-ended by a seer will is 10x more than anything else.

Once had a coroner game where nobody died until d4 and it was as fun as it sounds

I will say from what I've seen, with ghost town proscuters seem to be way more important since evil ghosts can mess things up for town

The reason that the vet kills fewer is that so many of the added roles are day actors, with the removal of rb immune and the addition of more astral visits, the proportion of visits to a vet bait has gone down, and the proportion of those visits that can be shot has gone down even more.

Trickster idea: literally turn it into TOS 1 transporter but add some Town Killing twists. You can switch the places of two town members, including yourself, also switching what happens to them during the night. They will be notified of being tricked (transported). This ability has unlimited uses. The first town member you select to trick is the town member you visit that night. If you trick yourself to someone else, you will gain basic defense for that night. This ability can only be used 2 times per game. If you trick an evil killing role into yourself, you will deal a powerful attack to them but only if they directly attack you. If they don’t directly attack you, your attack will be a basic attack. You will be notified what attack you used if you trick yourself.

I like it when everyone, regardless of role, teams up to kill the apoc roles when they transform

I agree on most of the list. Admirer is famous for being a stealth town killing role in a literal sense, it's worth it's position in B but only if you have players that understand the game. Crus and Vigi have the issue where they can only kill 15 non town roles (17 if CL/Jester doesn't defense), unable to kill 10 non town roles and able to kill all other 24 town roles outside of situations of defense with Town protective/monarch. The odds of them being useful in a 4 coven game is slim, and the odds of them being detrimental are much higher. The learning curve in TOS 2 is much higher, Town Investigatives need to step up their game, I'd say Sheriff and Investigator are two sides of the same coin and I'd say a Spy is the vampire hunter of Enchanter/Illusionists.

15:40 Something to think about illu is that it can out Coven to Spy, meaning if there's a silent Spy (firstly, why), or if a Spy decides to bug your coven that has book, you just auto confirm them as coven. Kinda sucks tbh

I'd put doomsayer in the A tier with the other Neutral roles. I like how you can use it to guess other neutrals or even coven. Once it gets more respect maybe it can be shifted to B tier. One thing that I dislike about it is that the role doesn't suit the name. I'd also agree that it needs some further changes, maybe not to the extent of being able to get a different role but just something to open up the door to some counterplay and maybe a name change to suit the role better. One thing I am noticing is that the gamemode also play a factor into how good a role is so your experience in playing exclusively AA plays a factor in this.

I think that War should target 2 people every night to rampage at, it would give them more of that feeling of being a god.

i dont have tos2 yet but thinking about a seer finding two serial killers or two arsonists or something and revealing them as friends, and boom now they can whisper eachother and coordinate all thanks to a townie that sounds like such a fun possibility even if its a tiny tiny chance :P

9:50 Wait.....is this ~40 seconds into the Jak and Daxter Precursor Legacy - Rock Village song?

The thing about war/berserker is that by themselves they are just Jugg which sucks, but their real threat comes from possibly having teammates unlike NKs, you speed up SC turning into death (specially now that SC is astral so when you start rampaging you dont hurt them) and you can act sus trying to get people to hang you instead of Death, you kill people without plague helping PB transform into pesti (which leads to 2 unkillables rampaging around), if famine didnt get hanged you secure a win by killing one of the people with bread while also killing annoying TIs/Coven trying to find baker.

I know what u mean. Pipe about veteran I remember in tos1 I legit one night got like 4-5 kills it was an investment, bg, medic, and 2 other roles. But it seems so different from tos1, sadly. I haven't seen a veteran in tos2 get more than 1 kill a night yet.

the way i'd rework coroner to be a better TI would be to when the coronor investigates a body, if there was multiple people that visited the dead the night they die, when the coroner autopsies the body, they will see everyone that visited when the body died. However, IF there is only a "killer" that visited the body the night it died it would instead give you a phychic evil vision like result, where one of the 3 people are the murderer of the body (so they cant just FIND a evil without much effort) Definitions: Killer: A anyone that directly caused the death of the person by visiting them/was visited by them for example, the shrouded player will show up as the killer instead of the shroud itself, the veteran that killed them, CL that killed them Visiting: Normal they'd visit the graveyard at night when they do this EDGE CASES IF the body was taken by a retri or necro the investigating would fail and tell you the body was taken. IF the body has been tapered by a retry or necro youd instead see that the body has been re-animated before IF no one visited the body the night it died (disconnecting, scurvy, arso, famine, etc.) you'd get no traces IF the person died by 2 different people, and ONLY those people, youll get the 3 potential killers BUT 2 of them are killers this time IF 3 or more people kill the person, the coroner's autopsy will fail and say that the body was too mutilated to find any clues (balancing) How do you guys think this balances the role? too op? still bad? i'd like to know :)

A fun change for pirate would make them leave when there is like 5 or less people( not including the pirate themselves ) left in the town

i think Trickster would benefit from another change, and it should be like bait people to attack but you can make them think that another person is the one that's baiting attacks, i guess kind of like a merge between Vet and ToS1 Disguiser, you can still be found by Seer, Sheriff, Invest and PMs

would say that both bg and trapper get destroyed by shroud as if shroud decides to shroud bg at any point and there's not a cleric on the bg will just die to themself and the trapper traps can trigger and kill anybody who is shrouded with a non astral visit. Plus shrouding is a astral action so don't have to really worry about shrouding the same target as rampaging roles.

War vs Pest The reason why people aren't scared of war is because people expect war to come sometime as everyone knows about bers but pest is a sudden threat

Imo you should judge the apocalypse roles as one, because the entire point of the first form is to get to the second form, which is usually more powerful than other roles. Imo it doesnt make sense to judge them seperatly, since the first form will be very low and the second one will be very high

The reason that the jailor still jails night 1 is that at the end of the day, they still are a roleblocker, so they can stop killing roles from killing.

Would be interresting if Doomsayer turned into a Jester with no valid targets but died at thatt night if they're not lynched.

So something I noticed when playing ToS2 so far: 3 of the 6 TIs are almost exactly the same Coroner, Investigator, and Sheriff all are functionally the same in terms of how they discover evils Sheriff is definitely the most straightforward about it, and they haven't changed much since ToS1, but the changes to Invest made it feel like Sheriff, and Coroner is a weaker Invest I'm not even sure what you could do to make Coroner more interesting, maybe having it so that instead of finding out the singular person, they find the role that killed them, or the alignment they're from I really like the diverse role list we have in the game so far, even if some of the roles feel like weaker ToS1 roles, the game has been really fun and hectic because of the new role list

honestly if they want to buff corner without too much effort they should just get 2-3 checks per autopsy to be good, maybe only once per body. A more fun approach would be 1 check per dead body, so if 3 people died N2, you get to check 3 people N3 to see if they killed ANY of the bodies. This would make corner feel like it has more of a purpose (being more helpful when there are a lot of evils in the game) rather than worse invest. To solve the "nobody dying" problem, I think having the corner gain basic defense for one night would be okay, this would also be in line with a corner since they are no longer working. Meaning that they are more observent to their surroundings.

2:49 Did you say half a role or half a roll? Joking aside.. Why are they town powers and not.. like.. Town Leaders or Town Authority to save time? That way you don't get TP claims mixed up.

Coven: "dies to veteran" Veteran/Town: "Ah i see, that person's the veteran, makes sense" Veteran: Dies to Doomsayer. Yeah, from what i've seen, coven have so much more protection / other methods of attacking, and yeah, just waiting as noted above usually solves the problem, after losing someone, you end up 1f1 if doomsayer is in the game. Part of veteran was how easily it was confirmed, it was someone the jailor trusted, and a confirmed townie with self defence was a strong townie. Now a confirmed townie is a dead/ignored townie. Also, part of being unique is the ability to CC (strong when confirmed townies are good), vet was king of CC, can't cc if there can be 2 of you.

On veteran, it's two fold: 1) veterans are more easily countered now. There's a ton of astral visits, role blocking, so it's a lot harder for vet to actually get someone to visit 2) there's more roles. This just decreases the number of times you see vet as well.

1:15 I've actually done that as an Executioner Play, it worked well too

Ay nice use of Jak and Daxter music! Great game.

Funfact, Hexbomb can kill transformed Neutral Apoc roles, hexbomb is stronger than unstoppable attack. My necromancer in a recent game used my body to hex the final person, abd pest died to the bomb.

I really don't think you should rank apocalypse roles before and after transformation separately. You can't gave one without the other, they form a single complete role, splitting them up just gives a warped and confusing picture.

Yeah, it's not fair to split up the pre-transformation and post-transformation roles for the Neutral Apocalypse. They need to be in the same tier, because *of course* they're going to be weak before transforming. That's their entire *point.*

I streamed a coroner game and I did carry. I autopsied a Coven member who ended up killed by a WW. I found them. Won the game with that. Although simple deduction worked, it had it uses. Tbf, it was my first coroner game and I hadn't played it before. Likely will upload. Edit: Listening to the Illusionist part. THIS DID HAPPEN WHEN I WAS A CONJURER. People voted up a Trapper for being 'fake' when I (Conju) killed someone that had a trap. I didn't realise in the video but I did find out afterwards.

I wonder what takes longer to make, a single upload worthy game of tos2 or a 40 minute tier list?? Especially with Pipe’s quality

"I don't want to be a cursed soul" Yea, that's the point.

I think doomsayer should be able to guess TIs, but only if they guess EVERY person's role correctly. So if they're stuck at the end with nothing but TIs left, they can just guess everyone to win. So they can win by guessing 3 non-TIs correctly, or guessing everyone correctly including TIs. Maintains the nerf of not guessing TIs early on, so TIs can still pop out with their info, but allows doomsayer to maintain threat throughout the game.

Pipe I bought 99 coroner scrolls and am intent on winning with them. Any advice?

My star coven line up is Coven leader - main killer Hex master - team arso Conjuror/Necromancer - chaos depending on graveyard or killing powerful townies Voodoo master - remove town vote

What if after night 5 or 6 doomsayer can guess ti and after night6 rit can start guessing ti to help balence it out idk jest is also good idea for DS

Question about the Executioner, can they not pick a target n1 and leave it for a later night, or do they must pick a target on n1?

Trickster rework idea: no longer a Killing role. Simply makes whoever they visit target the Trickster instead of their intended target, using yourself as a test dummy to figure out certain abilities. (Ex, if you visit a killer and are killed, you'll incriminate them in your will... BUT its possible that they randomly chose you and their target anyway and you got the wrong guy.)

18:59 tried to Maylord a game recently, it's tough as hell reading all those whispers lmao. We won tho (had Mon and Jailor and we all lived lmao) but ngl I don't think I helped, so Maylord rlly needs a skilled af player. But also with Pros and Dep, you can't make all those roles not be whisperable once they pop out.

Executioner can still turn into a potato by locking in a confirmed town but it's a lot better than Doomsayer. At least you get the option to figure out other evils and use a majority to push that person.

I would honestly disagree with Famine being in S+. A solo Famine with 3 other people left after starvation starts is most likely going to get voted out one way or another unless the remaining 3 are particularly gullible. A Famine paired up with a Berserker, then they are fine, but alone, I don't think Famine is good enough for S+, not to mention the little RNG involved in making sure you dont somehow give Bread to all the Coven or any other role who can insta confirm themselves

I think it's interesting how some of the players have some influence from Wolvesville

Only 1 view O.o Love to see a new tier list now that the game has launched.

I agree with coroner every time I get the role only evil dies except for one or two and then I die once a townie dies

I think NA roles (the final forms) should be the strongest in the game because of how bad or long it is to transform. As such I think both Pest and War need buffs, so im gonna give my idea for a buff for both. War: Has Unstoppable Attack, and invincible defense (will rampage) Immune to RB and controls, killing those who attempted Kill any Lo or Tracker that tries to catch you, Sheriff sees you as innocent You kill the jailor, even if they attempt to execute you Cannot kill NA roles (basically tos1 pest with unstoppable attack) This would essentially make him the strongest night killer in the game, requiring peoples attention. Pest: Gain Invincible Defense Will kill RB and control attempts Every night after Pestilence is revealed, half (rounded down) of the remaining people are randomly killed by disease (unstoppable attack) (excluding NA roles) This would drastically make Pest a force to be reckoned, and force the town to focus them (Half of the remaining people might be too strong, but the idea of random people dying from disease is the whole point)

Whenever I vest as jest im always killed by a WW

I think the necronomicon itself needs a bit of a rework in coven order and that is not giving it an order, you make it a vote system like with vampires so when the book holder dies, coven votes during the day on who gets it, now as for who starts with it? That could be decided some other time, like maybe a quick vote on day 1 and extend day 1 timer a bit for that vote or something to that effect, that way coven has the right people having the necronomicon at the right times, and maybe even making it so different coven can have it without someone needing to die

I wish that illusionist could choose to instead visit non-coven and act like a hypnotist, especially when there is a spy getting work done.

Imo Veteran probably doesnt feel as strong becuase the whole ecosystem if u will in ToS2 is more powerful and the power dynamics have shifted a bit. For the Doomsayer I think the jester change is fine but maybe they get the option to chose the TIs on n4 or n5 cuz at that point if u are a TI and alive ur either fake with defence or shouldnt be but idk maybe its too strong. Trickster needs a new identity yea. They could just turn it into the transporter while they figure something better for it imo cuz thematically it makes sense that the switch is a trick but then it wont be a TK so idk... Tbh I dont see why it needs to be kept as TK. Maybe add a some twist to the transports idk like they perform their night abilities on eachother but thats too much chaos prob. But yea for me ideal coven team would be CL, Ritualist, Conjurer cuz they are just insane and then the PM cuz I feel like the utility is crazy and its very versitile as well.

What if bread gave protection until the famine transformation? Just some food for thought

Good tier list. I love the jak and daxter music.

Love the list - Love the Jax and Daxter music even more 😂

Pipe how would you feel about a point system for what roles can appear where each role is worth a certain amount and each faction has a certain amount of points (possibly multiple values) depending on the game type. The goal is to make sure no faction is too weak or too strong so that people's skill level has more influence on the game. Consequence is of course that people will start counting the point amount currently in game but I feel like that raises the skill ceiling and would make the game more fun. Obviously it wouldn't work as well in gamemodes like all any but you can maybe used in on a reduced scale there (to ensure that coven is either 2/3 strong or 4 less strong roles).

Hey pipe. In my opinion enchanter needs to be S tier at minimum, potentially S+ tier. All you need is a target who doesnt talk much and you have infinite amounts of plays to do that confirm your teammates or yourself, while making people who actually find you look guilty. For example, forging someone quiet into an admirer, writing in their will that someone who found you is evil and thats why they didnt speak. Or simply making them exe/jester. It is very hard to catch a good enchanter player.