To answer some questions that have come up: It's hard to hear, but the tow pilot made a radio call just before I released saying that he needed me off. At that point, we were already descending. I was in a DG-1000, so my 50:1 glide ratio beat the Pawnee's 7:1. It seemed gentlemanly to let him land first. I didn't want to just follow him and extend the downwind though, because there's a cliff at the end of that runway that can generate very strong downdrafts, so I did the zigzag pattern to give him enough time to land, and minimize my exposure to the potential downdrafts. I'm figuring this all out in the few seconds after the release though, so you can hear a little hesitation in my voice.... It was important to get this out on the radio ASAP because that Cessna was ready to take off, and wasn't expecting two planes to drop out of the sky and take his runway. Some people speculated that this was just a normal high density altitude takeoff. Density altitude that day was about 8500 feet, but this is a 260 hp Pawnee, and normally this is no problem. Without going into detail, the engine required some work before it could fly again...
As Dave kammeyer said in his comment above, "It seemed gentlemanly to let him land first." He also said the Cessna waiting to take off didn't expect two planes to drop out of the sky and take his runway, so I would assume they both landed on the same runway. It's possible that it's his tow plane you can see off to the left on the taxiway at the 3:51 mark. The tow plane landed while he was doing his zigzag pattern.
24,000 hrs here and still flying which only means I survived it and NOT that I am an "expert" in any venue. Here are a couple of thoughts on this video and the responses. 1) It's to easy to critique on social media and more importantly... 2) If you haven't been tested in a similar situation, you have no clue how you will react. Train, prepare, and you too will have the extremely successful outcome of these two pilots. Absolutely a great job!
@@joesmith389 Yep. It's like in the winch launch and the instructor suddenly pulls out the plug. Clunk. After a couple of times you only think "Another 3 minutes test flight." But one day you'll be glad you have done that before. Those 1:7 glide ratio's are scary, it sounds like oldfashioned gliders or a downdraft you can not escape. Those angles resemble landing a spaceshuttle. Make shure you get to the threshold flying. Yes, that's impressive.
@@joesmith389 My instructors thought I was doing to well and that I wasn't taking a couple of near disaster situations that happened literally within the first dozen hours of my training serious enough. So when it came time to give me rope break training they did it really early in my training and on a nearly impossible day with a new instructor, all hoping to catch me unaware. Turned out later by the way that I don't tend to stress out or panic in situations like most people do. I wait till after the fact to fall apart, but I handle the situations well. Helped me stand out in my career later. But i digress. With a HEAVY crosswind and very low to the ground I remember thinking there was NO WAY he would pull the release on me so didn't really plan for it more than it could really happen so better have a plan. But definitely wasn't expecting it. I banked hard thinking I needed to make the 180 which seemed like a mistake to the instructor at the time and also released the spoiler lock which REALLY sent him into a panic. What he DIDN'T know was that while we were taking off someone had an emergency landing and was coming in underneath us I would have landed right on top of him had I continued straight ahead and with the crosswind I had no choice but to turn toward the hangers and go around a couple trees that stood just a little taller than the one I had to fly over to attempt a landing on the where normally everyone would be parked. I needed the brakes immediately on landing to try and get stopped because the tailwind was going to push me into the line up...... I had to fight him to pull the handle back before we touched down. I wanted the wheel locked when we touched he didn't want the spoilers deployed before we were on the ground. I won the tug of war and we missed the twin grob by inches. Probably the most expensive glider other than the discus at the entire gliderport... The reason I seemed cocky was because I had been flying radio controlled gliders for 10 years before I started glider training. I had flown some power with a friends dad before that too. I was pretty comfortable. With that said, I was a little too comfortable and did get myself into trouble at least a couple times.....
I had a tug failure on my second glider solo, and this video is reminiscent of it, although mine was more sudden. The large bow in the tow rope was the first sign of trouble, followed by the tug aircraft wagging its wings to tell me to release and land (which I did, downwind).
Excellent video and top comment. As a high time tow pilot and glider CFI I can state that there were a lot of things done absolutely right in this event. Kudos to all involved. I am even impressed with the accurate flying on tow by both pilots. (This is harder than it looks.) While the top comment explains everything I thought I'd add a bit for the less experienced viewers and commenters. No waveoff from the towplane? In radio contact with the glider it's a whole lot easier to just key the mic and ask for release. Especially if you are not climbing well and you're a little slow, you might not want to waggle the wings just then. And of course the problem with the glider wasn't being too _low_ for an easy return to base but actually, at 50 to 1, being a bit too _high_. The towplane drops like a clipped-wing rock in comparison so not only is it the "gentlemanly thing" for it to land first, it would actually be pretty difficult for the glider to beat him down. The fast final worked out well as it allowed a "taxi" up to the right hand turnoff but I was a little worried about that gravel berm up there. Many thousands of tows in all kinds of towplanes including 260 hp Pawnee, and I've only had to wave off one glider due to towplane problems. That was in a 180hp Bellanca Scout that blew an oil seal and I couldn't see out the windshield. I have dumped a couple due to obvious problems in the sailplane being towed, like unlocked spoilers and no radio contact. And I've only been waved off once for real in a glider... and that was when the designated FAA pilot examiner flying the 180 hp SuperCub _ran out of gas_ while towing me and his employee CFI on a checkride in a 2-33. No kidding.
Wow. That’s one for the logbook: Checkride incomplete, examiner ran out of gas. Thanks for the story! Is there a tow rope release on the tow plane, in case of emergency?
Yes there is, and FARs also specify the strength of the towrope and weak links at both ends if needed. The glider is like a huge tail surface 150-200 feet behind the towplane and it is very easy for the glider to get out of position and override the towplane's controls completely. So the tow pilot has got to be ready to dump the glider at any time, really. Normally though the glider stays in position (as perfectly demonstrated in this video) so there normally isn't any reason for the towplane to release in flight. Some operations will require dropping the rope on landing or at other times for positioning purposes, so the towplane's release mechanism does get used regularly and is checked for operation often.
From a fellow pilot (glider, SEL, Instrument) ...... Great job dealing with the unexpected early termination of your aerotow.. Your episode shows the wisdom of all those simulated rope breaks at 200 ft during take-off required during glider training. Glider training probably saved my life and the live of my passenger 12 year old son. As a very new power pilot, only 10 flight hrs after getting my single engine land license I suffered a engine failure in a rented Beachcraft Skipper (BE77) just as I was nearing the boarder of Des Moines class C airspace making radio call announcing that I was 10 miles out inbound to DSM Suddenly there was loss of power and the engine was shaking so badly that it felt like it was going to rip the nose off. The shaking was so violent and rapid that it was impossible to read any instrument gauge and we were being thrown side to side in our seats. Immediately I shut the engine down and in mid radio call changed my announcement of being inbound into a distress call, engine failure. Because of my glider training I immediately lowered the nose to maintain flying speed. We were about 3500 ft AGL. As per glider training I maintained best glide speed and began seeking a landing spot. Unlike pilots trained in power planes only, I was never tempted to try to maintain altitude by raising the nose - which leads to stall / spin fatalities. I noticed immediately that the BE77 with its engine off felt very familiar, with a sink rate of about 500 ft/min, much like the Schweitzer 2-33 training glider with spoilers half deployed. From glider training I was very familiar with checking angles and the effect of wind on progress across the ground. DSM ATC vectored a highway patrol aircraft towards me to "see where I would crash". I asked ATC for the CTAF (common traffic area frequency) for Ankeny airport which was closer than Des Moines to my location at that moment. I made radio calls on the frequency they gave me (but nobody at Ankeny heard me as ATC had given me the wrong frequency!) I Continued towards Ankeny airport all the while picking out other potential off airport landing spots (in corn fields) . I arrived over the downwind end of the Ankeny runway with insufficient altitude to fly a pattern but too high for a normal approach. The BE77 has fairlly ineffective flaps so I needed other ways to get down while controlling speed. Bingo glider training kicked in again as I did a steep slip to landing (which had not been taught during power training). We touched down normally though a bit fast with the tail wind so heavier than usual braking was required. Because no one heard my radio calls due to the incorrect frequency I had been given, another aircraft turned onto the runway in an upwind direction as I was rolling out downwind. His eyes got pretty big. Aircraft in distress has he right of way. It was later determined that a push rod in the engine had broken. Despite the equipment failure Elliott Aircraft who I had rented the plane from still charged me the rental fee. I will always feel indebted to the glider instructors I had trained with earlier. Once again great job in handling your emergency. And I am mildly jealous that you get t fly a DG-1000. Enjoy!
@@MrSunrise- There was another that landed in the Azores where they had to do a slip on final to scrub speed. Air Transat Flight 236. They said at one point the passengers probably had a better view of the runway than the pilots. They put it down so hard that they blew most of the tires out. I read the article years ago and laughed when I learned that ETOPS really means Engines Turn Or People Swim...
Great comment. Sure, with hindsight and having watched this video a couple of dozen times, I might have done some things differently. I'm obviously glad that no one broke anything that wasn't already broken. Decision #1 was whether to land on the crossing runway or not at about 2:00. I decided not to because I thought it might just be downdrafts rather than the mechanical failure that it was, plus I was concerned about the traffic on the crossing runway (that I took off from, the Cessna behind me, that you can see taking off at that time). Decision #2 was whether to turn right and land long on 20 or do the pattern that I did. At the time, the reason I did the pattern was because I was concerned that there was another aircraft taking off on 20 that might hit me as I was approaching or landing long on 20. In hindsight, this was probably not the biggest risk and landing long on 20 would have been the best option. In my own defense, I had about 10 seconds to make this decision, and I wasn't sure where the departing aircraft were. Decision #3 was how to fly the pattern. The reason I turned right after crossing the runway was to put the most time possible between me and the towplane. I could have gone straight with the spoilers out and done a more normal pattern. I wanted to land as late as possible, because I didn't know exactly how big a pattern the towplane was going to make, and I didn't want to hit him. As it turned out, he did a very tight pattern and landed quickly, but that was abnormally quick due to the situation he was in. I also wanted to have as little exposure as possible past the cliff. The winds there can be unpredictable and have claimed several lives. The downwind-final looks worse than it was because of the GoPro's wide angle lens. I had good speed on and spoilers out from the time I turned base, but of course I didn't feel fantastic at that moment. People have criticized my late final call, but I was focused on making sure I wasn't going to make a hole in the side of the cliff, and the radio was a lower priority at that point...
Yes, us power pilots have never heard of 'slipping" and can't maintain a steady glide. We just panic, curl up and die. Cough. Fortunately we have it easier getting in the cockpit without enormous egos.
That happened to me as a young glider pilot student, too. I was in an ASK21 behind a Wilga, when its engine suddenly stopped due to fuel starvation. Well, he did make one take off to much. Luckily he could land on a field and so my instructor counted this as an unforeseen cable rupture practise.
No criticism here! This was done professionally and in an emergency situation in a high traffic area. This couldn't have gone better. True professionals.
Total non pilot asking a question here. I had never even heard of a winch launch, so I Googled it and watched a video of one. Here's my question: 1,000 feet for a glider doesn't seem like a lot of altitude, everything considered (having to pattern back in for landing, etc.) Once you get in the air, are you able to hit uprising heat currents that lift you higher in the air and keep your flight going for a longer period of time. Fascinating to watch. Great job to both pilots landing in a very nasty situation.
1000 feet is not a whole lot of altitude. In an older glider, you need to connect with a thermal essentially right away or you're going to be landing. In a modern glider, you have a few minutes. With a modern glider, a long field, and a powerful winch though, you typically get about 2000 feet, and that buys you at least ten minutes to hunt around for thermals before you have to come back. Thermals tend to pop up in predictable places though, and you can see where other gliders are finding them, so if the field is set up well, you can connect with something 80-90% of the time, ride it up, and then stay up all day. Doing this is the game of flying gliders, and if you know what you're doing, you can fly hundreds of miles just with your wits and the movement of atmosphere.
I can't believe you were able to make a 270 into landing, that wing is incredible. I miss flying, but I smiled when you got the turbulence off the runway because I used to fly parachutes and hot runways under canopy can be wild.
We had a similar incident at Herlong Airport Jacksonville FL around 2005. Several years prior to this we had a prop strike with the Pawnee hitting an airport sign. The engine and propeller were professionally overhauled and put back into service. Years later a 14 year old student is on his first solo when the Pawnee loses power. We’re quickly on the handheld radio telling the student to release; the tow pilot also releases and the tow rope went down in the trees never to be seen again. The engine is vibrating so badly that the tow pilot is worried it will break free of the engine mount. He does a perfect Bob Hoover power off landing rolling out within 50’ of the Pawnee tie down spot. The prop had lost about 8” off the blade. Meanwhile the student landed and left with his parent and never came back.
Nice job! Watching the video it was sort of freaking me out how your tow was not gaining altitude fast enough. Our gliding port uses the same type of tow plane and he hauls us up like we're in an elevator!
Density altitude stated as ~8500' with a 20m ~1600lb two-place glider! I've personally experienced tows in that specific glider behind that towplane at that Truckee, CA airport. Beautifully accomplished response to the emergency!
Glider pilots are trained to know their safe landings areas during all stages of launch, especially if you have ever trained with Cindy B. Great job by all!
В Леверкузене у тягача мотор отказал и пилот попросил планёра отстегнуться. Тягач ушёл в лесной массив напротив взлетной полосы. У пилота не было вообще никакого шанса вытянуть на какую либо полянку. Планеристу не оставалось ничего другого как смотреть вслед уходящему в деревья коллеге . Последующая коробочка и посадка были наверняка не самыми лёгкими в его жизни . Земля пухом камрадам 👍
I call BS on this whole setup! As a former tow Pilot my objective was to get as much attitude as possible in a given distance. The pawnee Driver did not do that he drug the glider over the departure runway at low altitude but kept it close enough for the Glider to drop off and be in position of a landing on another runway
Well done. It shows that if you are prepared, have trained, you do not spend too much time thinking. Assessing the situation, height and distance, staying cool and proceed as trained. In hindsight one always finds a small piece one could have done better. I had some ropes break over 25+ years, most of them winch cables though. After every single one I thought I could have done different, mane better. But nothing bent, everyone safe, that is what counts in the end. You saved a potentially dangerous situation very well. Good airmanship. 👍👍
Haven't flown a glider in 20+ years (except one 'trial lesson' flight to see if I still could). Didn't catch the 'I need you off' but the accent, from memory, seemed sluggish and the audio didn't sound 'quite right' first impression; the tug pilot knew he had a problem but extended the flight long enough to give the glider enough altitude to work with, very professional all round :-)
Stellar job and good quick decision making. I used to tow a lot and I was going to say I was (un) impressed by weak initial climb, then read about density where you were. Still I am amazed that a 260 H.P. Pawnee could not climg better than that. I used to tow with a Robin 400 mostly and the climb was quite good but even less than a Pawnee which is one of the best tow plane.
It looked as though the tow plane was in trouble from the moment he started his takeoff roll. Even if he wasn't towing a glider, and if it was a hot day at high altitude, think he should have abandoned the take off. Good recovery man.
Pawnee seemed to lose some power after right after initial takeoff. I'm suspecting that it's engine suffered a stuck or broken valve or other cylinder problem. That usually results in a sudden power rollback accompanied by engine shaking and very often happens right after takeoff. This Pawnee has a six-cylinder Lycoming IO-540 so the power loss and vibration are not quite as drastic as they are in a four-cylinder engine but it'll still get real tense in a glider towing situation.
Having towed gliders for several years with a Pawnee, let we assure you who haven’t flown one, they sink power off like a polished safe. An engine failure was always my greatest fear.
We camp at Martis Campground frequently and listen to the tower when at camp. We hear reference to 'white-tow' and 'green-tow' all the time. Glad it all worked out for you guys. It's great entertainment for this hang glider pilot to watch and listen to the soaring activities at Truckee.
I had this happen to me, Cessna 172 tow plane blew an oil line and gave the release wave off and dove back to the field trailing black smoke, looked almost a scene from a WW2 dog fight. All good, no injuries or loss of aircraft, except perhaps soiled shorts of the tow pilot, lol
Flyboyb747 seems like you would have better things to do other than try and convince a random RU-vid comment section of your legitimacy if you were telling the truth there flyboy.
Awsome job by glider pilot. We have had 7 aircraft crashes here in CT in the last year including a tow plane and glider. You did an amazing job getting passenger and yourself back to runway 2-0. I'm extremely disappointed in the communication from your tow, he could have easily brought the both of you down due to lack of communication. I tell you what, excellent thinking on the fly (no pun intended) and staying calm, cool and collected. Excellent vid bud and I wish you the best of luck in the future. Lastly I didn't see your tow after disconnecting, I hope he had a safe return as well.
Towplane made a 180 turn straight to landing. I gave some more details in my other comments, but everyone came back without a scratch and no bent metal or busted fiberglass. I could hear the radio fine from my seat, but with the wind noise, it's hard to hear it on the video. I didn't really expect this video to have much of an audience beyond a few flying buddies that I had told the story to, so given the number of views, I should say for the record that the tow pilot Joe communicated what was going on perfectly, and took a risk holding onto me as long as he did. With the engine losing more and more power, the safest thing for him to have done would have been to cut me off ASAP and use the last bit of life in the motor to set up a good pattern. Instead, he held on, even as we started to descend on tow, until he knew I was in a position that I could land safely from. Thanks Joe.
That was amazing skill put to practice, such perfection! As a SEP Pilot, you Glider pilots seem like gods to me! Edit: that Joe guy though, a real hero, reading your other comments!
Had that happen to me except I was the guy flying the tow plane; a PA-18 Super Cub. It happened just over the fence on departure at about 200 feet. Happily, it was a fuel contamination issue and as soon as I switched tanks, the engine started to turn well again. I assume this video is from the USA since all glider airports-that I have worked out of anyway- here in Canada, are grass strips.
Those answers would have better been included in the video as a preface, narration, or epilogue; or in the Description. The comments are not part of the video presentation, don't always include critical information, and some people don't read them.
The shrieking in audio made for temporary deafness.....Good video...at what point did the glider realize a problem? I was wondering about the 5 foot per minute climb rate at the end of runway. Is this normal for a towed craft?
Been there done that! I was actually more concerned about the tow plane pilot we were further out. Unfortunately he was killed a few months later while towing an idiot that porpoised up low to the ground pulling his tail up. Kind of ironic to me Kurt the tow pilot once told me I was an overly cautious pilot, then gets killed very sad he was young.
I have been caught with an 0320 engine failure at 500ft after take-off but managerd to do a wing over 180deg turn back to the runway. One has to discuss an 0320 failure with the Aircraft Engineer who signed it off. However it was a genuiun total failure with a Carb., problem and fuel feed. Rather odd really. Searched around in ones mind to think of a similar situation, I can't say I have seen or heard of an. 0320 failing on take -off. I have had an 0320 run rough to idle at 1200ft.Was able to put the aeroplane back on the ground. Problem carb., failure.
Can you provide any details? I would like to use this at our monthly safety briefing at the North Florida Soaring Society. I didn't see a wing waggle to kick you off although the climb seemed anemic to me. My email address is jhmcglynn@gmail.com
@@jhmcglynn No wing waggling is bad, what if he didn't get off and the radio didn't work or something? A wing waggle is clear and easy to notice. Code is the key to safety.
Nice job,pilot-calm and cool....and that's why we practice lol never had that happen but I had a rope break once-no big deal,we were already up 2500' ,in a 2-33 with the field in easy reach,flew a normal pattern and approach
This maybe a dumb question. But is it possible for gliders to have ultra light engines so they could takeoff themselves? Or - at least - have powered backup?
It's not only possible, there are a number of models like that, with retractable engines, and now even electric. But they are more expensive, more maintenance, more everything. Also, engine deployment takes time, so if you tow such a glider and lose the tow at this altitude you should land just like in the video. You have no time to deploy and start the engine.
Thanks to our new super dimona motorsegler at EDFZ having engine ‘issues’ a few years back we had a few aborted aerotow. Well done to get everyone back on the ground without further adventure.
As a matter of interest, in an emergency can the towplane pilot release the towline from the plane? And if he did that, wouldn't the weight and drag of the line cause the glider to nose down and crash?
The towplane has his own release that he can use in an emergency if, for example, the glider's release fails, or if the glider gets too high on tow and threatens the towplane. This is only extremely rarely used, but if the glider would be flyable in that state. It would definitely be somewhat nose heavy, but the main concern would be catching the rope on something on landing, so the glider pilot would want to land a ways down the runway.
Thanks, and as a matter of interest what's your take on the tragic deaths of a glider pilot and two passengers (one of whom was a toddler on his mum's knee) a few years ago? As I recall, he took off under tow but then a ground controller noticed the small tail trolley was still attached to the glider and radioed "Abort". The tow rope was then released by either the tow pilot or glider pilot, and the glider nosed straight into the ground..
On the other hand if there are lessons to be learnt from the tragedy, the more publicity the better, to help stop it happening again....:)......PS- I was a gliding club member back in the 1960's..
It is standard procedure to use the last momentum on rollout to clear the runway for the departing and other landing aircraft. It's common behavior unless you are the only traffic at the airport. It is also common that the gliders may land on a gras strip parallel to the runway and there too - get out of the gras runway on rollout to allow other gliders to use the same runway.
hedegaard8 Pretty sure the tow plane with the engine issue would be coming in to land straight after- you think he wants a glider parked right in the middle of the strip?
In cases like that it's ever man (or woman) for themselves and the first rule is do whatever is necessary to save your own ass. We had a towpilot lose a crankshaft oil seal during a wave tow, covering the windshield with oil and filling the cockpit with smoke. He went into the USAFA strip and the glider returned to Black Forest. The story was a lot funnier once on the ground than when it was happening. www.jimforeman.com/Stories/shorttales.htm BTW, we removed the prop, installed a towhook and air-towed the towplane back to Black Forest.
@@havenrich Guess I was thinking of a different situation where one of the towplanes had an in-flight engine failure (like a rod through the cases) and went into the USAFA airstrip. They removed the prop, bolted a towhook onto the flange and air-towed it back.
Read what the uploader said a few days ago: " To some of the "high density altitude, everything was normal" comments, yes, density altitude that day was probably about 8500 feet. However, that is a 260 hp Pawnee, and normally this is no problem."
It happened to me on take off Managed to still land on the grass runway. Glider Pilot Instructor with student, he performed beautifully. Would you believe. It was VAPOR LOCK entering the Tow Plane's carb...All safe
