Hey guys, this was the first video I recorded after moving to a new appartment so the audio may sound a bit inconsistant here and there. What do you think about how toxic Helluva Boss is when it comes to Stolas and Blitzo? Do you think the world building matters or am I just being too knit picky?
I can't get into Helluva Boss because it is so inconsistent. I feel like I shouldn't be surprised because Viv has always had this problem. Her writing has always been inconsistent and she just changes things on a whim.
@@alilishaa8824 You can watch a show and have a whole life. That’s a very crude assumption. what’s your life like? What do you do? I volunteer twice a week at the central shelter as well as class to assist me to a position professionally or scholarship into university, I am already in a private animation university and have Well Exceeded Expectations grades, doing violin classes and have a large rescue dog missing a back leg from the shelter I go to, my rescue pet pigeon from behind a shed and took over year for me to foster her to full health as well as 3 rescue rats from the shelter I go to.
At this point I've watched so many RU-vid videos on Hazbin/Helluva that I would really struggle to separate what I learned about the world via RU-vid from what I learned from the show itself.
I'm kinda annoyed with the direction they're going with Stella. Making her so two-dimensionally evil feels like they really wanted to absolve Stolas of any shred of moral ambiguity. I wish they'd explore Stella's relationship with Octayvia a bit more, since going off of Via's comments, it sounds like she tried to at least put on the appearance of being a good mother. It would have been interesting to see whether Stella really did have a genuinely soft side that could contrast with the rest of her awfulness, or even Octayvia trying to grapple with the illusion of her mother running into the reality.
What ambiguity? It was a political marriage arranged by their parents. Everyone involved knew what it was AND knew that Stolas and Stella didn't like each other.
@@zackkelley2940 @zackkelley2940 which is something we only found out much later. For the first few episodes, one could have easily made the argument that Stella was simply reacting to Stolas sleeping around behind her back and ruining their family's reputation. Even Octayvia seems to blame Stolas, at least partly, for the divorce and implies that from her perspective, they were a happy family until Stolas started cheating on Stella. I'm not saying that Stolas had to be portrayed as an outright villain, or that Stella had to be the victim, but there is room for a more in-depth exploration of their relationship and it feels like the writers are taking the easy way out
@zackkelley2940 Exactly, reputation! Many royal families have infidelity, She probably expected him to cheat at least once, but not with an Imp wich in the Lore is the lowest class, along with hellhounds being below them. She could have been like, trying to make her family look absolutely perfect, and then, behind the current, they could have had some problems. Wich leads Stolas to cheat on her (Even if it was arranged) and it's the same as it is in pilot, the reputation of the family is ruined and she now would want to kill him to save face.
I think the real issue is that people tend to forget that helluva boss is a spin off of hazbin hotel. And I think vivizpop was hopping that the first season of hazbin would be out by now and we would have a more clear idea of how her hell works
@@ThePonderer it should be better I think as HB was written on the fly where as HH was not so in theory it should have better world building but I'm not sure
Eh that explains the lack of world building but not the blatant issues in the writing, it also doesn't help that most of the information we know is from like podcast or interviews which is probably the worst way to world build but that's besides the point, Helluva boss suffers from tonal shifts and clear lack of a direction which is and always will be fair criticism, I still (overall) like this show I just don't love it anymore cuz the writing quality has greatly dropped
In terms of what a sinner looks like in HB's version of Hell, I suspect that it all depends on the nature of how they once lived. What I mean is if you lived like a vicious, aggressive savage (or behaved in such a way before you died like what happened to Ms. Mayberry,) your demon/sinner look matches the nature of your sin. Take Lyle Lipton's sinner form; HIS had a sort of "Bigweld from Robots" look because he spent most of his days on a bed. Thus, he didn't really use his legs all that much since being turned into an old man by accident
As much I adore Helluva Boss, I like Season 1 and the pilot more than Season 2. Season 2 is kinda eh in my opinion, but I enjoy some of the characters and animation in the show.
Season 2 has admittedly had some flaws, but imo there's praise to be said too - it overall hasn't been quite as top-notch as S1, but I have no doubts it could turn around
Oh even oops is a terrible episode like no there is no way of the show returning in it's fashion way like i don't even care about people's opinion about like season 2 is good no it's obviously terrible i just don't need to actually care that much about the show but mentioning season 2 i will roast that to a garbage or whatever is trending i don't care i don't even know what it's trending
One can't blame Blitz completely for fearing intimacy and not being much of a recipricator in a relationship. Given the fact that his father practically used him for illegal schemes, he never really knew who to trust
@@enegizedadam definitely. I wish she would take a back seat and just give ideas. Be less involved but still contribute. She is constantly shooting herself in the foot.
I can't get mad at a relationship being toxic in hell, feel like that's kind of a moot point to me, but I do see how it can be specially annoying to see for you, since it wasn't even supposed to be the main focus of the show based on the pilot. I like the show... Sometimes, other times I get easily annoyed at how disjointed and predictable it can feel, people love the first Stryker episode, I don't, for example.
It does not really work when this version of Hell is just Earth but everything is red. Where is the dystopian cesspit that was shown in the Hazbin pilot?
Yeah, if I just stuck with the episodes themselves, I would be able to figure out certain things about the lore, but not all of it, so I definitely agree with you. I do well and 'connecting pieces to a puzzle" if I am given all of the pieces. Like I can't even remember how the franchise introduced the 7 rings of hell (and that's sad).
As someone who hasn't seen any tweets or livestreams, they haven't explained it out loud in the show. Blitz first mentions the rings when arguing with Verosika then other characters name a couple rings (wrath, lust, greed) which bare the names of sins. Viewers infer that there are 7 rings since there are 7 deadly sins.
Obviously more nuanced than simply "style over substance", but the substance that IS there is... inconsistent. I, also, keep coming back for every episode, but the flaws cannot be ignored.
Everything makes sense when you realize HB invites you to choose what you want to engage with and discard EVERYTHING else. The plot; the characters, their development; the worldbuilding; and even the premise are all impermanent. It's a customizable experience, which explains why so many foundational elements of the world don't work: they're not **designed** to be consistent.
I think this show is clearly lacking direction. It wants to be an episodic dark comedy and a serialized interpersonal character drama at the same time. That is hard to combine and the writers were clearly not able to find the balance. The characterisations always flipflop between complete a*holes and misunderstood little uwubabies, that we're supposed to feel sorry for. Blitz and stolas being the best examples of that. And don't get me started on the female characters that this series fails to write. The worldbuilding is another thing. It seems to be unimportant, then it isn't. Important plotpoints are hidden in books or text messages while the former worldbuilding is completely ignored because the writers felt like it. Also this being a musical is a cherry in top. Most of the songs are completely useless and could easily be removed from the ep. (Not something a musical should be able to do) I know it is an indie show and some critisism is blown way out of prorpotion imo. But then there are the fans who praise this show for deep writing and I cannot help but laugh. Like, have you seen any other show in your life? Ever?
Not talking about their problems is completely in character for both Blitzø and Stolas. I really dont understand why so many people expected them to address Ozzies right away
To be fair, I think the reason why Blitz was shocked that Stolitz can get hurt is because I think Blitz thinks Stolitz is so powerful that very few things could hurt him. For example, in season 1 episode 6 it was Stolitz who saved I.M.P. from D.O.R.K.S. Also, the reason that Blitz didn't take Stolitz getting kidnapped seriously is because Stolitz has a tendency to call IMP for bodyguard stuff when in reality Stolitz doesn't need protection he just wants to flirt with Blitz, like in season 1 episode 2. Basically, Blitz saying "He can get hurt" is more him being shocked that Stolitz really was in trouble and Blitz was basically goofing off not helping Stolitz out and I think Blitz feels awful about it. That's my theory/head cannon and I'm sticking to it.
@@zackkelley2940 Blitz clearly knew that angelic weapons could kill Stolas. He's not the type of person to outwardly care unless he knew there were actual stakes.
Listen to me- demons cannot die unless an angelic weapon is used against them, this goes for royalty as well. Imps can die naturally since they are hellborn which means they can die of anything. Sinners and royalty cannot officially die unless angelic tools and weaponry are used against them, so a sinner may “die” from getting shot at by a normal gun but can regenerate unless shot at by angelic weaponry (which is why blitz try’s to protect Stolis, because Stolis can actually die if in contact of an angelic weapon. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
@@trashymc4564 I took this information from context clues from both shows, I try to be observant but I understand not everyone is going to be looking at every little detail of a show when watching it casually. I do understand her points but I just wanted to clarify how sinners and royalty (aka higher ups, such as Beelzebub, Asmodious, Stolis ect.) can actually get hurt or killed using angelic weaponry. Whilst Imps and hellhounds can get hurt via regular weapons.
The problem with Helluva Boss is that Vivziepop announced and released it too early. She should have just focused on Hazbin first and in Season 2; she could have introduced IMP and the characters. Then after season 2, she could have announced the spin off and later produced it under A24. With that, more time and effort will be put into both series and they could have gotten Kesha to sing “Cotton Candy” without facing any issues. The thing about Vivziepop is that she pretty much got herself involved with the fandom and social media too much where she became toxic herself. Makes statements to defend her show, when she actually comes up with the most random toxic excuses that don’t make sense. While most allegations about her are unconfirmed, one rumor that’s confirmed to be true is that she mocks other people’s work. One artist in particular, FENNAH, who is a 3D Animator, made a video that is based on Nostalgia Critics review of The Wall, which was a bad idea considering how terrible the review actually was. While the animation still had it’s flaws and Fennah respected fair criticism, Vivziepop along with another artist started mocking and making fun of the designs. People noticed this and they said; “Viv no offense but you of all people can’t make fun of someone’s overcomplicated/edgy character design.” They simply called her out for being an unprofessional hypocrite because instead of respecting a fellow artists work, she instead chose to make fun of it for attention while she designed characters that share edgy designs as well. It’s sad to see the fame go over Vivziepop’s head considering how she is rushing the series with random storylines to make it still entertaining and funny. My guess is that since Lackadaisy’s animated release (based on the original comic that came out in 2008), she already saw competition and took it personally. But this is what artists, and Vivziepop, should understand that there is no competition. I just hope that whatever she is going through just stops so she can become a better person.
11:36 It makes sense for Angeldust not being able to die, seeing as how he’s a sinner and hell is supposed to be his eternal punishment. But I’m pretty sure hell-born creatures like imps and demons do have a lifespan.
To be fair pilots are usually in a weird spot where they aren't quite cannon but tend to be referenced anyway. Nor are they indicative of everything that'll be in the show. Look up Star Trek's 'The Cage' as an example of this. The only returning character is Spock but it DOES get reference several times throughout the show.
I think all your criticisms are completely valid. The writing in this show is definitely the weakest point. I want to expand on your points about Stolas and Blitz's relationship. First, we're lead by the show to believe that these two characters actually care about each other but there's very little evidence given to support WHY they should be together. Stolas absolutely treats Blitz like a sex toy. The only time he suggests spending non-sexual time together is after he publically rejects Blitz (I don't blame him for this as I too would freeze up when I was embarassingly made the center of attention). When told "You make it obvious you only see me as someone to have sex with", the next time they're seen together there is not only no mention of what happened at Ozzie's, he freaking HITS ON HIM AGAIN! I understand why Blitz doesn't come out and say his piece about their relationship but I think the show has spent far, far too much time building up the evident "tragic event" that caused so many people in Blitz's past to actively hate him on sight. What the hell happened that caused his sister to refuse contact after leaving rehab, his childhood bestfriend to interrupt his playful goading of a different character to start harping on Blitz, and his ex-girlfriend to cross off the only visible tattoo on her? I would be fine if we were slowly being fed info but we're only given enough info to ask more questions! I have a feeling they are going to dump it all in one episode which would be great but we already got a Blitz emotion dump episode. My next problem with Stolas and Blitz's relationship is the fact that we already know S2E6 (and possibly S2E7) is about Fizzarolli. If what happened at Ozzie's isn't brought up at all, what happened at Ozzie's will have happened LITERALLY HALF THE SERIES AGO. Some people say it was resolved in those "blink and you'll miss it" text messages but I call BS. There's no way we're going to accept that the largest plot event between the two characters the show chooses to focus on the most was resolved by freaking text message. Like you, I like this show and want it to succeed. However, like you said, the show needs to stand on its own without being supported by fans basically having to do homework. I haven't read a single tweet or watched a single livestream. It's fine to have reference material but it's not very good to basically say, "If you want to understand the universe I created, go read Dante's Inferno. It's just like that except I changed some stuff".
This couple reminds me a lot of those bad Yaoi couples from some of my favorite anime/manga such as Naruto x Sasuke, Kaneki x Hide from Tokyo Ghoul and Shizou x Izaya from Durarara. And just like Stoliz, both the Naruto, Tokyo Ghoul and Durarara Yaoi shippers tend to hate on certain female characters like Hinata, Touka and Varona just for “getting in the way of their precious Yaoi”. Do they not know that both Kaneki, Naruto and Shizou are straight? And of course a lot of these Yaoi Fan Art and Fan Fictions tend to have characters like Sasuke, Hide and Izaya to be a bit, “forceful” towards their friend/rival Naruto, Kaneki and Shizou. Not to mention that these Yaoi shippers make up false accusations towards the female characters of said shows such as “Hinata is a stalker who doesn’t care about her family.” “Touka is abusive towards Kaneki and raped him in Re: Chapter 125.” And “Varona is mentally 10 years old.”
@@samflood5631 I think people take their unofficial ships way too seriously. The only relationship I cared about in Naruto was Temari x Shikimaru because the show actually shows them developing a relationship. Everyone else's relationships were in the air. When the hell did Hinata ever show she didn't care about her family? Did something happen in Naruto's son's show? People will make up anything to justify their nonsense. I haven't seen Tokyo Ghoul or Durarara so I can't speak about them but I can imagine how crazy people are!
@@kamatari1220 Well about the whole Hinata not giving a rat’s ass about her family. During the Naruto the Last Movie in the scene where she saw her sister blinded after being tortured by the Moon People and some haters assumed she wasn’t even worried about how her sister is blind now. They claim that she was more worried about the red scarf she made was destroyed by her ex fiancé who is some moon guy. In fact, some Yaoi shippers accuse Hinata for not being there for Neji during his Father’s Funeral.
Confusion for world building elements is understandable. Here’s the way I see it: Hell’s natural lowborn residents (Imps, Hell Hounds, Succubi, ect.), while there is some kind of hierarchy, are similar in that mortal weapons can kill them. Granted they are generally more resilient than human on earth. Death is a one time deal, which makes them differ from Sinners (hellbound humans). Sinners we know little about, and that’s because they are the main subject of Hazbin Hotel. What little I’ve been able to figure out, with no supplemental material, is that they are much harder to kill, if they are killed they come back, and the one way to kill them is with weapons from heaven. Then you have the noble demons (Stolas, the 7 sins, ect) who are much more powerful than humans and can only really be harmed with heaven weaponry. For me while I was confused with Vivzi’s world at the start, I have been able to make some conclusions. Sinners are still a mystery in many regards, but that does seem to be what Hazbin will focus on. Helluva is more broad picture with the other rings of hell and the natural denizens of hell. At least, that’s what I think. When Hazbin comes out I could certianly be proven wrong in my beliefs and that’s totally ok.
You are NOT being nit-picky; a lore should establish a given clearly prior to something which depends upon that rule is introduced and the story should remain consistent with its established rules when a series or lore invokes a situation depends upon those rules. You were right to point out this show's power/general rules inconsistency as well as the weak writting.
the issue is helluva boss is ment to be a fun side show to hazbin hotel but since hazbin hotel hasnt released yet a lot of lore is unknown to us about sinners and hell
I loved Helluva Boss for the first few episodes when it was comedic assassin comedy... then the show took itself too seriously and S2 just doesn't want to engage with its own premise and Blitz is just a side character in his own show. Episode 4 and 5 of Season 2 in particular are just atrocious.
Thank you so much for pointing out all the inconsistencies and issues they can be frustrating to figure out,I've been working on my own fan projects for a while now and for me lore is super important(don't care for fanon)I love the universe and the idea behind it ,it has so much potential for amazing storytelling,but I'm frustrated and disappointed with the direction of the show,focusing on stuff that's very whatever IMO. I do wish more people would acknowledge this more instead of trying to defend it or justify it just cuz there die hard fans. Oh well,good vid dood.
And to answer question about stolas not knowing where Octavia was I personally think it was because he was in a fit of single minded panic and was not thinking clearly
Something you pointed out was stolas needing the grimwar to do his job but I'm not sure what his job even is since I don't follow all the fan theories. I think it has something to do with astronomy but idk what?
It's to do with prophesies,m learning how to read the stars to predict the future. He says this in episode 1 of season 2 during the flashback to his childhood.
I really wouldn't mind the relationship being toxic if it wasn't constantly rubbed in our faces that we should pity Stolas, who is the one who is raping Blitzo, with no acknowledgement that this is in fact his fault.
thanks for adressing the relationship between blitz and stolas. that is why i hate helluva boss. their relationship was toxic and manipulative. Stella was right. stolas did not diserve to be with someone who does not care about him or only cares about money or their own wants and needs. but anyways thanks again for adressing why i hate helluva boss.
Regarding the question of imps, the supplementary material explains that "sinner demons" ( people who died and went to hell) and nobles ( like Stolas and Charlie) can only be killed by holy weapons which the exterminators use. Imps are lower level, native to hell, and not restricted to the Pride ring like the sinner demons so maybe the extermination doesn't really apply to them? ( By which I mean that since they're not a big threat they're not really on Heaven's radar.) The creator is also explained that regarding Angel's question if you die there, you perma-die and become part of the landscape. Hence why all the buildings in Hell have eyes. They were once people. From the worldbuilding standpoint all of this makes perfect sense. What does not make sense is that you have to piece everything together from supplementary materials and it isn't all that well expressed in the show proper. So on that front, I agree. On the other hand, if they went with heavy-handed exposition that might slow the pace of the story. Maybe the question is is there a way the writing can give the right amount of exposition without slowing anything down. In my experience I've had professors say that the best way to write something is to give the audience enough information for them to understand what's going on since you won't be over their shoulder explaining every detail. But since the creators have a platform to reach a wider audience they're able to explain things if people have questions, regardless. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a platform I'm just saying maybe they should stop and ask themselves 'did I write this in such a way that even if I don't explain it to them they'll still get it?'
I think you're over thinking this mad... I just assumed when they died in hell Their memories were wiped and their souls were sent back to earth to start a new.
this show is what I call "modern drama" where it focusses on putting the characters in relatable modern situations rather than fulfilling a structured concrete plot and proper conclusions. not to mention the die hard fans scare me like genuinely. met one Irl who hated everything in life except for this show. in other words, if any of these characters are relatable for you, you're kinda f'ed up. (from experience not saying it's fact) Edit: I think I didn't make my last point clearer, what meant by "relate to these characters" Is that if someone used trama or scares as an excuse to be a degenerate ahole, I know trama can effect a person's behavior, my problem is how these characters don't seek to better themselves, but rather just use someone else for instant gratification.
7:45 to be fair, half the reason why fans get an uproar from criticism is because Viv's hatedom also acts like she kicked a puppy. I mean, in the recent episode people are accusing Barbie wire of grooming a camp counselor because people don't know what seducing is anymore since Jimmy was a teenager. Most valid criticism gets overshadowed by constant nitpicking and the overall hatred of Viv
And did any of the Hatedom also point out Moxie and Millie had sex on stage infront of a crowd of miners? I mean the whole 'grooming thing' Barbie did is a valid point, but hi, the show has an episode devoted to succubis seducing dozens of people to win a bet with a parking space for the prize... A friggin parking space.
@@MadMunchkin Some did, but most were focused on Barbie really. And when it was pointed out by Viv that Jimmy was in his late teens with 18 to 19 being the youngest legal age a camp counselor would be (having a female voice actress voice him was a bad idea anyways) they doubled down on it still being grooming. And to be honest, the scene with Moxxie and Millie wouldn't be too out of place in any other adult cartoon.
@@Rosy_Blossom The reason Helluva Boss doing it is different from the 2-3 examples you gave is because Helluva Boss is an interrelational show, and therefore any relationships or relation-related actions are to be taken more seriously, and ESPECIALLY considering how at some point children were in the mix (the relationship between Stolas and his kid), any inappropriate interactions between an adult and minor in this show feels 10x grosser. If the kids were meant to act as a comedic piece and only that, then its fine, but if you give a deep dive into a kid's life and their relationships, it becomes much more personal. You can't make a show about serious relationships and trauma, then make a fucked up joke and expect the audience to react like they're watching Southpark. If you're gonna joke about abuse towards kids then it needs to be handled in taste and strategically.
One of the problems is that helluva boss is the series that is supposed to give you a picture of how the Hazbin hotel universe works. Since it's supposed to be spin off of the "daily life" of the litte imps in hell. And how they handle the world building of Hazbin Hotel now has to make sense with what was shown in helluva boss. So if Helluva boss is inconsistent that will affect Hazbin Hotel because they are both connected as the same universe. It's confusing because it's supposed to be a spin off and usually the spin off is based on the main series and is a continuation of it. And Hazbin Hotel which didn't even release its series when it releases its spin off, is becoming or became a series based on its spin off.
Helluva Boss is already a mess fundamentally. It was created as a spin off.... of a show that has not yet air. How they barely focus of the world building and dropping names, places, rules, and whatnot with barely any explanation, as if it has been explained in the main show.
I mean, I thought it was kind of clear that once we found out that certain classes and tiers of demon are immortal (royalty and sinners) that everyone else is basically just a regular person who can die from regular means, making the threat of death still persistent, cant really have a show about assassins without it also, we see sinners looting weapons from corpses after the extermination, setting up the idea of angelic weapons as we see them being used by said angels, honestly the only thing I can actually say to make things better aside from expo dumping would just be, have a sinner get "killed" without an angelic weapon and have them regenerate / reform / revive on screen, at no point in the hazbin hotel pilot do we get to see a sinner get seriously injured or anything
3:24 It's because helluva boss was meant to be supplemental originally! Hazbin hotel was meant to be the prime series but got delayed.... That's why there's this gap. You need to understand that and you're looking at different classes of demons, the imps hell hounds and such for example, are native species. That's why they can reproduce sexually and they have finite lifespans. The ones that are overpopulated are the ( formally) human sinners which are only on the top level pride and are already dead. We don't get much about them ( the sinners) because that's going to be focused on in hazbin hotel helluva boss focuses on the life of the native species of hell... Also sinners tend to take elements of what their sin was. The one you're confused about from episode 1 is wrathful which is why she looks like an imp, imps are native to wrath. Just as a gluttonous sinner would take canine traits like the hell hounds and it also follows in hazbin as ex. alistor is a cannibal so his form is a wendigo (a deer-headed spirit cannibal monster from native American folklore)
Stolas x Blitz reminds me a lot of those anime Yaoi couples like Naruto x Sasuke, Kaneki x Hide from Tokyo Ghoul, Shizou x Izaya from Durarara and Eren x Levi from Attack on Titan. Most of them are bad, barely make any sense and a bit uncomfortable to get into. These shippers tend to make a lot of disturbing and disgusting fanfiction and fanart which leads to the two of them having sex which looks and sounds like rape as Sasuke, Izaya, Hide and Levi tends to be on the top and more dominant. Plus a lot of these shippers tend to hate female characters like Hinata, Touka and Varona for getting in the way of their “precious Yaoi”. Some Naruto fans accuse Hinata of being a Stalker with an unhealthy obsession with Naruto when both Sakura and Karin are way worse than her seeing how they lust over Sasuke whose a wanted terrorist that started World War 4. Some Tokyo Ghoul fans tends to think that Touka is abusive towards Kaneki without getting to know her at all. Plus they accused Touka of raping Kaneki in Re: Chapter 125 when Kaneki consented to sex along. Do they not know that other characters like Tsukiyama, Jason, Arima and Mitsuki have done way worse to Kaneki than Touka? I mean when Tsukiyama kidnaps Kimi and breaks Kaneki’s arm, he gets a free pass. But when Touka hits Kaneki for abandoning when she needed him the most, the fans think that she’s worse than Hitler. Some Durarara Fans think that Varona is mentally 10 years old when really she’s 20. At least Varona and Shizou had a way healthier relationship that his relationship with Izaya, a sociopath who tries to kill him every other time, breaks the law just to piss him off and tried to frame him for murder but letting Shizou kill him during the series finale. At least Varona was mature enough to kill Izaya so she could take the blame for Shizou since he just got out of the slammer for a crime he did not commit. About Eren x Levi. That’s basically pedophila since Eren was 15 and Levi was 30 during the start of the series. God I hope that my favorite anime such as Chainsaw Man, Spy X Family, Hell’s Paradise and Zom 100 Bucket List of the Dead doesn’t have a lot of toxic and unhealthy Yaoi couples that these shows have.
Well if i had to come up with a comparison, Hellvua boss takes place in the SAME world that Hazbin Hotel does (which still isnt even OUT yet). Just like how MLP G5 takes place (supposedly) in the same world as G4 did. And they have the same "world building problem", or at least similar ones. Namely that the "details" that make up those worlds MAKE NO SENSE! I will say though, the IMP hit jobs and the "Stolas and Blitz show" are definitely too different shows. One is a "Hit of the week" and the other is a "Rom-Com". Even worse, we have HAD only THREE Murders on screen, their might have been a few off screen like in the case of "Truth Seekers". Other then that we have the Crew or Millie Commiting mass murder (Truth Seekers and Season 2 Episode 3). Season 1 of this show was GRATE! Besides Millie getting no development beyond being Moxxies wife. Season 2 so far......is a bit of a mixed bag, but we got more episodes to go so maybe it will turn around. And we got TWO MORE SEASONS TO GO AFTER THIS ONE!
@@MadMunchkin While im sure they aren't "making this up as they go along", as has been noted on several occasions with Hellvua Boss. If Stolas and Blitz had a Falling out, BLITZ IS TOTALLY SCREWED and the show just ENDS. Although, their is an alternative method, an Osmodious Crystal. Their is a picture of one in Stolas's book in the first episode of season 2, and as of the latest episode Unhappy Campers, you can see them being used for the first time. It also doesn't help that they "solved" the fallout of Episode 7 OFF SCREEN and you can see it though text messages in "Western Energy", quite the Cop Out that was. The show certainly has its issues, but overall its enjoyable. If nothing else you can't stop watching cus you want to know what happens to the characters.
Love is complicated, it’s not just Lust because it’s messy and both people have trauma and barriers. Love and life is more complicated than a Disney love story.
The only comment I could add is with the Stolas thing, Blitzo being surpised he could get hurt is because he's a demon prince. Literally one of the most powerful demons compared to everyone else (which also ties into Hazbin with why Alastor is such a big deal because he's a regular sinner who rose to such a high threat level in terms of power). Oh, and part of the point is Blitzo and Stolas relationship isn't a relationship they're 100% using each other while ignoring whatever issues they have and whatever feelings they should have.
Not going to pretend the series is perfect, it would be nice if they could figure out ways to explain more lore in the series than without. One correction though: only sinners have previously died. Hellborn are exactly that, species and races whose lives start and end in Hell
I feel like toxic relationships would be interesting to explore, as long as the show that's portraying it acknowledges that the relationship is TOXIC. The fans of Helluva Boss act like Stolas and Blitz are the most wholesome non-hetero couple but they can't say that now that FizzOzzie is canon. Edit : Now, the pilot was taken off the Helluva Boss Playlist. it's probably safe to say that it was made non-canon like the Instagram accounts.
The joke is they didn’t make an anti aging device just a forward Time Machine that ages you. Pretty useless. And if it did work the other way he wouldn’t be old anymore.
Didn’t even realize Bee was a sin until I watched a youtube video on it. I watched the series twice at this point. And love her relationship with Tex but it really doesn’t make sense how their together with no one saying anything when he’s supposed to be the lowest lowest class. 💀
I also have to mention that theirs even more wierd world building is also so wierd. Every ring has a species of demon thats created/born there. Ex. Sharks in greed and hellhounds in Gluttony. They also have like a hierarchy with imps on the bottom and like the rulers of hell on top. Both of these facts are bearly explained with imp and hellhound inconsistentys with the whole main conflict being around blitz and stolas not being able to get together because imp and high ranking demon. But then Stolas proudly announces he is dating blitz in some episodes and other high ranking demons date hellhounds and imps all the time so??? Why have the hierarchy??? And then they bearly show where locations are like loo loo land is in the greed ring and the hospital is in sloth.
I'm curious about your thoughts on the Blitzo/Stolas text messages in Season 2 Episode 4. Since you said they never talked about Ozzie's again, I'm assuming you missed them. But the texts have insinuated that Stolas has been trying to talk to Blitz/meet him casually, and Blitz has been blowing him off. Heck it implies the two haven't seen each other for at least a month before Octavia went missing. I kind of agree with your worldbuilding issue to a point. Don't get me wrong, I remember asking what was the point of Moxxie's dad killing other demons in Hell, then someone told me natural born demons can be killed, but not sinners. It is confusing and because it takes so much from different depictions of hell, we have to rely on Vivzie to give us concrete answers.
I don't consider the text messages "talking about it". Can you imagine if in the next episode Stolas and Blitz came in being Moxxie and Millie level relationship wise and their only explanation is "We texted each other about our problems and worked them out"? That would not be satisfying in the least. This couple is the one the series chooses to focus on, not some 3rd tier background characters. I would be severely disappointed if those text messages were the extent they addressed what happened at Ozzie's.
It would kinda undo the plot and sense of urgency in Hazbin…but it could be an interesting twist, if when the sinners souls were “killed” they would have all memories wiped and be reincarnated as one of the “hell born slave class” (imps or hounds) and be stuck in that cycle forever. That they no longer get to enjoy the social status and “freedom” that comes from being a human sinner-and they now have to spend eternity in an endless cycle of suffering and servitude to literally every other being in heII. That would at least offer somewhat of a “consequence” to the sinners who die/get exterminated in heII. 🤷♀️
This seems very nitpicky in general. A pilot is not always separate from the rest of the series, a lot of shows simply integrate them into the running order. Which is even easier with this as it starts in media res, even if the pilot is a chaotic mess, with little to no coherent tread. I don't feel like all that much of the lore is necessary to watch the series, personally I haven't followed any ancillary media at all (except hasbeen hotel) and I have no problems with following along at all. For example the inherent caste system in hell, seems very obvious, from how they interact With Imps (natives of hell) at the bottom (maybe with the hellhounds below them), sinners (former humans) -> nobles like Stolas -> the seven deadly sins, ruling over each ring -> Satan at the top, like some kind of god king. It is also very obvious that this caste system is there, because of the obvious power difference between the different types of beings. Just like Imps seem to have a distinct design philosophy, that set them apart from the rest of hells inhabitants. Other parts, like what happens when an inhabitant of hell dies, are really of little to no consequence, if there is an answer at all .
I don't think you should be trying to compare how mortal imps are in this version of Hell to other fictional versions of Hell. Every version will be different somehow in any kind of media. I'm just saying it's pretty unfair to say that the hellborns of this version of Hell have to be exactly like other versions you've seen before. This applies to any fictional interpretation really.
But we have nothing to go on since this show hasn't explained any of this. It's not a very good show if I have to read a guide to get enough info to understand what's going on.
At least that Fizzy and Ozzie had great relationship to each other. in season 2 episode 7, Ozzie try to help Fizzy that Mammon is a bad person. I know that Mammon did abuse to poor Fizzy. Ozzie also try protected Fizzy and he had a to fight Mammon. Also there a wonderful song called Crooked that had Ozzie and Fizzy be together.
Proof that some Yaoi couples can be good without being toxic. Just look at Dion x Terrence from Final Fantasy 16. These two truly care for one another and both are focused on the safety and prosperity of their Empire.
This love line sucks. Like a relationship, like a love line and its presentation. And the fact that this line literally takes up the lion's share of the plot, instead of, you know, the main purpose of the characters with their business ... This is what completely turned me off in the end, although I was really ready to give the show a big chance. And at the end of the day, it's just another yaoi furry fanfic in which two really shitty dudes are morally forgiven and justified for everything they do, even if it's really shitty and toxic, and then they get thwarted by an evil ex-girlfriend, because vivizpop can't write female characters in principle.
11:40 They do actually explain that. Sinners IE humans who died are effectively immortal and only holy weapons can kill them. Natural born creatures like imps and hellhounds can die of old age.
@@MadMunchkin It's mentioned in a Stream I believe and explains why the Purge is necessary. Also it's important to note the Purge I believe is exclusive to the Pride Ring since only Sinners can live there and is the reason Charlie made the Hotel to redeem Sinners since they are the ones getting killed.
@thefanwithoutaface8105 yeh and I said in previous videos I shouldnt have to pour hours into watching supllimental material like live streams to get answers to basic world building which should be answered in the show itself.
This show is a mess narratively which is what pains me, you can literally tell which parts of an ep is written by Brandon and the other by Viv , their writing styles don’t work together at all…
I and bet many dont ask to have full wiki of lores , whit every ep is feel a driffren show to a fan fic And ya , Beez feel like a furry bait , is like design people of atlatics whit birds feature ,there have to be a logic Viv and the crew should stop twit why X and Y , if have to explain outside of the original media you try promote, your doing a BAD job
So the first thing that Helluva Boss is a spin off that focuses on hellborns and the other six rings so the problem of how does sinners work is not question here, as it would just be redundant and really waste of time (and money... a lot of money). It's not really needed for the show to work, as sinners does not really pay that much of a role in this show, other than a setup for actuall plot, and that is just sometimes. Like Imps where on mission ordered by a human like 4 times in the whole show. Ok so about the death thing, from what I understand from the show, hellborns can die, Sinners am not so sure about. About the show, yep the tone shifted from episodic comedy to more of a character based story. But once again, most people generaly favour the episodes that focus on character growth, than the purely comedic ones... I would also say that writing is not the best quality and you can fell the contrast between comedy and the serious stuff, a little to much (especially in seson 2). Another thing is the lack of character progresion, I mean the only one who accually change in 3 years of this show runtime is stolas, and Moxxie had like 4 episodes where he goes the same arc...
I think your arguments about how messy the lore is very valid, however there is a reason why it is this way, Vizipop has made it very clear that the studio she’s working with does not want characters from “Hazbin hotel” to end up in “Hellva boss” meaning that for the show to work, with the exception of Imps city, they are not allowed to show much of the pride ring. Meaning, I’m sure the creator is aware of this problem but legally she cannot do anything about it. Basically everything about how sinners, a.k.a. living people who died and went to hell function cannot be described in the show “Hellva boss,” which is a spin off by definition. Shows are supposed to be working together or at least one shows supposed to keep the other in the memory of people before the other ones ready. Personally most of the supplemental material, I think, it’s a bit too confusing and I don’t actively go out and find so, but by this point the series there is enough context, clues the gauge where things are at. First of all, in episodes season 1 ep 8, we learned the names in order of every level of hell there is officially if you look at the sign showing on how the hell elevator works. This is showing not telling that hell is vertically stacked on top of each other and transportation, in between is very difficult. And in the episode where Stolas gets hurt, we are shown that there used to be a train system that connected, but since the elevator was put into affect, it most likely stop being used. Again, context. No honestly I appreciate the chauffeur not just spelling it out for me because I think I would find that annoying over and over especially when the characters are supposed to have lived there their entire lives. It takes you a while to understand how the world works, but there are generally hints within the story that things are a certain way. After a while of watching the show, you probably noticed that sinners have a very interesting resole trait, which is that their appearance is completely random. Meanwhile, every other race has a bunch of consistency. Just give them a clear they don’t belong here appearance, which is true because they aren’t supposed to be here. They are humans who died and came here and have been twisted into new forms. And you can get this from watching both shows if you pay attention. And in the show, Stolas clearly shows that he’s not scared of getting hurt clearly as if he has some ability to stop him from getting hurt and they specifically call out that angel weapons are being used from a black market to kill high-ranking demons. So it’s clear from watching has-been hotel, and the show that angels come down during the purging once a year, they leave behind weapons, and then the people of hell use it to kill their higher ranking members who are immortal unlike the lower ranks. The only thing that’s not clear is that sinners are also immortal unless they are killed by angel weapons. And it’s kind of hinted at that this extermination is a more recent thing, as they’re probably was just a lot less people who died and existed to go to hell in the first place before and population boom and changes in culture would probably affect the amount of flow of heaven and hell. What is not explained clearly is how exactly the souls end up in hell and the mechanics of that. And the fact that sinners can only be killed with angelic weapons because it’s more of very lightly handed out rather than immediately directed. Because apparently that’s the case, but only if you read supplemental material, but also very confusing, because cannibalism is rampant in hell do people just keep regrowing their limbs so the cannibals just keep ripping people apart and regrow them for food that’s really fucked up if that was the case. Just why I avoid the supplemental material because it just doesn’t make sense and I don’t see how it works properly.
They need to remember about like the other show and also not forget about some other episodes i mean how are they supposed to know if queen bee was before episode 1 of season 2 or is it 2 i didn't even watch episode 2 i don't know though
I grew up semi christian but lost belief growing up and coming from someone who doesn’t know all the text biblical history of hell. It kinda is a bummer how it isn’t explained and they just assume if you are watching the show you get it.
I disagree about the worldbuilding part. Yes, they did not go into detail about what exactly happens when you die - but that wasn‘t the point really? We immediately understand that the person talking to Blitz is the same person as the teacher from earth - just dead and furious. Is it confusing and unlogical that the death immediately arrive at the imp‘s office? Sure. But it‘s still worldbuilding that it is that way. Why would hell be logical? Why would time on earth and in hell be in sync? It still is consistent. I think the rings were introduced quite well. To the people in hell the rings are an obvious fact, so that‘s how they‘d treat it: Just mention in a conversation when it‘s relevant: when you want your ex to get away very far. Later Blitz mentions how his employees grew up in the wrath ring, so it gets clear that the rings are spaces, like neighborhoods. Same principle. The alternative to that would have been a more exposition-y approach in the pilot or the first episode. Could have worked very well, but that can seem somewhat artificial/ breaking the fourth wall and peopably that was not intended. Also it is well established that hell is not a place for eternal suffering formost. People just live their - abliet messy and violent - lifes there and nobody cares if they don‘t suffer enough. That is how Moxxie and Millie exist. That’s how Ozzy and Fizz have a great time together. And how Charlie and her girlfriend have a quite good relationship. The only one who mentiones eternal suffering is a former mad reporter from earth. A character from another show still. Who uses that story to justify his believes that the happy hotel won‘t work. Why would that person‘s opinion define how the world - hell - is and not everything established so far? There are still inconsistencies - like how Moxxie first was from Wrath and then wasn‘t like you mentioned in another video and how Stolas sometimes is and sometimes isn’t powerful. But most examples here aren‘t really fitting.
hey do you whant to see worldbuilding and lore done right the newest ultraman blazer shows the maine ultra talking to the monster of the week eg thretaning him but mostley though grunts
They literally try to paint these two as good and we should root for but actually hate and see as wrong, why are we even doing that? It's not good writing.
Here's a few things about helluva that makes me sad: -Comedy -Musical segments -Lack of good tracks just modern kids movie music. Comedy is mostly swear words or drunkard shenanigans Musicals are worthless and are unbearable to listen to (atleast for me) Tracks like the you got the power from s2e5, country song in s2e4 as well as the trash pop music also in s2e4 (cotton candy is subjective but my only favorite kesha song is tik tok and i had to skip that part because i didn't like the poses of bee and her looking at the viewer made me want to slap that bitch out of existence)
I disagree with many of your points here. I don't think Helluva is perfect, but many things you brought up aren't what I would consider reasons for that. Some reasons I disagree get into one of my biggest pet peeves of media critique, that being when people complain about something being morally wrong as criticism without getting into why the thing being morally wrong is bad writing or acting like morally wrong actions or automatically bad writing. I am just going to go through some of your points here and say what I agree and disagree with. 0:36 I do agree that the show shouldn't require other fans to explain the world to you, that is a problem with the show. 1:07 I do agree that supplemental media shouldn't be necessary to understand the world, but I want to leave a pin in this point for later. 1:37 ok, first disagreement. I do not think that seeing how someone appears in hell is as important as other world building. I can just accept that they pop into existence somehow. Especially since we watch the show through the lens of people who were born in hell, so this information wouldn't apply to our main characters. This might be a better piece of criticism for when Hazbin Hotel comes out because then our main characters are people who died and went to hell so this information might be more useful (and in the the Hazbin Hotel pilot, one of the first things we see is a sinner fall from the sky, presumably after he died, and react.) 2:44 because you complain about this later, I would like to mention that Alastor never says that the punishment is eternal. He just says, "The punishment is this." 2:57 already pointed out that the line you said implied the eternal punishment thing does not actually imply it, clearly this universe is working on different rules from the conventional hell (lack of direct torture, you can die, ect.) 3:24 yeah, some things getting explain would be nice, but I think that if characters are shown being able to die, we can conclude that in this hell, people can die again, if this complaint is an extension of your "not eternal punishment" complaint. 3:55 once again, if we were following sinners in Helluva Boss, this would be a fine complaint. But we aren't, so I think we can just accept this as a something that happens eventually. 4:06, yeah, this is getting really nitpicky. "Whatever that meant"? It meant that the living world has a smell different than hell that sinners bring in when they first die? Or this is a joke? Does the exact smell of the living world need to actually be known for this gag to make sense? 4:17 the designs. I know the teacher looks somewhat like a hell-born demon, but we are explicitly told she is not in the episode. Sure, this is something that could be communicated, but I don't think that it is too much of a stretch to assume that the red ones with horns are different that the ones that aren't. 6:07 otherall, yes. But the examples you give are not things I believe are badly communicated or things that absolutely need to be communicated. 6:40 you later go on to say that the show should tell us about the world after giving an example of the show showing us how the world works. I don't think we need to learn every detail about the world in the first episode, and that small tidbits can be given through the show like through this line. So they explain the ring thing, so what is the point of the argument about the show taking inspiration from a very influential poem. They said there are rings in the show as you showed, we don't need the poem to know that. 7:09 pinning this as well 7:24 she was just clarifying and explaining her thought process for the design, something that was likely only necessary because people complained about it. I think clarification or having some fun "this is why I did this" outside of a piece of media is not the same as the entire world being built in different material. Here, Viv is just saying "I love this design I made and here is why I made the choices I made." 7:44 _whistles_ 8:04 oh dear, you go into so many side tangents after this, I was waiting for you to say something to expand on "Blizo and Stolas are toxic." Nothing? No um, they are romanticized like in s2e2 seeing stars. I mean, that was the worse episode over all though. The show adresses their toxicity. Morally wrong things in media aren't bad writing if they are written as morally wrong, which Helluva does, so it is starting to feel like your problem isn't bad writing. It is the toxic relationship being toxic that is your issue. The toxic relationship is a conflict that needs resolved. The backbone of the show is that the relationship is toxic, it not being toxic would mean most of the story wouldn't exist. 11:32 Imps and sinners just work differently? 11:51 Considering they just got out of an extermination, Angel being dead wouldn't be too big of a stretch for Cherry to make. 11:58 *people reference dying and the plot of Hazbin hinges on exterminations of sinners "this begs the question if people can die in this version of hell" 12:16 So you complain when it references and takes inspiration from material about hell but then turn around and complain that hell also works differently in this universe. How dare the Imps not be immortal like in other works but also how dare the show reference the rings in hell that exist in other works. 15:17 Yes Ozzies was an issue, not because Blizo and Stolas didn't address it, but because the show acted like it never happened 16:16 hell born can reproduce, sinners can't. Also add another tick to "show isn't like conventional hell" list 16:55 That is the point 18:30 oh boy, back to "Blizo and Stolas are toxic and that is bad writing" No comments 20:48 And this is why I pinned those point that were made. Because know you are saying you wanted Helluva to be supplementary material for Hazbin? 20:57 The pilot is different from the show, out no, ahhh, how could this ever happen Yeah, I am done going through this video. Not the end of my criticism, but I am just not going into this. Over all, I think this is way too nitpicky at parts. Although, you make good criticism at parts, there are many problems
You didn't give any criticism other than pointing when I said a thing you didn't agree with. You never say why, and you seem to not listen to what I say at any point that backs up my statements and opinion. You just say everything I said was a complaint. And you never say what or how I should improve or fix what I say. That's what a critique should be. Point out what i did wrong, AND tell me how to fix it. If you disagree, fine. But if you want to give a critique, GIVE a critique. Telling me you disagree is not a criticism, it's a debate.
@@MadMunchkin So by your definition, your video is not a critique? Because you don't give many examples of what could be improved upon, especially in the parts about Blizo and Stolas
@@pageturner2958 I mean the entire video is litterally about 'Why Helluva Boss is STILL a Helluva Mess' which is the title of the video, which the video answers. It's my perspective and opinion. I give examples from the show explaining why I think so instead of just stating it and leaving it there. You're free to disagree with what I say, but learn the difference between giving critique and disagreeing with someone.
@@INTERNECION101 No it’s just not a mess you guys just have horrendous taste (I bet you all in this terrible community loved the live action “remake” little mermaid didn’t you)
@@realbiggestlegofanconnor7007 I don't see the appeal of trying to insult us here. I mean if you cannot take constructive criticism just say that. Fine we'll do it the easy way. Tell me this based on ONLY the show: What has Millie done that has nothing to do with Moxxie that adds to her character development? Why does Millie not defend mox from being physically abused by Blitzo and Loona? What ring of hell is the IMP building located? What is Barbie Wire's job exactly? Why did Loona say "dads mess up" in seeing the stars when Blitzo was giving her actual tough love for the PHYSICAL abuse she was giving him at the start of the episode? What the hell is Stolas's job? Why are the Dhorks not taken seriously when they have AMPLE footage of IMP and stolas everywhere? Why did Moxxie have to relive the same "use what you're good at arc" three times over? If Blitzo didn't know stolas could get hurt, why did he stop striker the first time? Why was Loona's shot more important than Stolas's life? Why has Moxxie never gotten a W without anybody to help him? Why do we barely see two females interact and sit down to talk one to one in this show? What did Octavia mean it wasn't always this bad, when from season two Stella was not shameful for being a bitch to stolas? Ay man bad writing is bad writing. Game is game
So i dont think viv is pulling directly from dantes inferno? (She doesnt have the attention dpan to read and analyze themes and world building from dantes inferno) She's just kinda copy pasting "hell rules ™️" from other media that uses demons or hell expected the audience to basically just buy it because its established pop culture?
