Toyota Engineers STUMPED?! (CRAZY Tundra P0019 - Part 1) 

Thank you Ivan for the support on this diag, I couldn't have done it without you! And thank you all very much for the kind words. Definitely means the world. Can't wait till part 2!

I've been a mechanic for over 30 years now. I started out working on motorcycles for about 10 years and graduated to working on cars and light trucks ever since. I don't personally own a pico scope. But I have access to a snap-on triton d10 scanner that does have an integrated 2 channel scope. It's not the greatest but it gets the job done. It has helped me with a couple of my diagnostics. There have been countess times when I have turned to Google and RU-vid for help. I'm not ashamed of that. But one search result brought me to one of Ivan's videos a few years ago. I enjoyed how Ivan speaks to his audience and walks us through his processes step by step, all the way through. I've been a fan ever since. Ivan, you have helped this old tech try to better himself. And have shown me a few things along the way. I can't thank you enough for that.

5 Star sean is my coworker! (Yes I nicknamed him that!!) He’s an awesome, smart, funny guy! He’s always down to help friends in need! Seeing him married to this truck was painful, we’re so glad he’s divorced from that Tundra! Shout out to 5 Star Sean! ❤

Dealer: The scope is how much?! Also Dealer: Replace every part on the engine! 😂

I worked in industrial Maintenance for over 30 years. I was the Manager and had 12 mechanics reporting to me. Sean seems like an awesome mechanic. If you have a guy like Sean asking for a tool he needs to solve a problem, you buy it! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the need and the value of a 4-channel scope. The problem with corporate dealerships is there is only one customer affected by the broken truck. There is no sense of urgency on their part because they can look at another day. In the Industrial world when something breaks you may have 80 people or more standing there waiting for that equipment to be repaired, not to mention the hundreds of customers not getting their orders on time. I would have ordered that scope the day he asked. Like you said, all the cost of what has been done already could have been avoided. The people in charge are showing their lack of experience and knowledge in dealing with diagnostic issues. I can't wait for the fix! They better buy Sean lunch for a month after this!!

Hey Ivan, I’m a Ford Field Service Engineer and I’m always learning and developing myself. Lots to learn always and I personally really try to focus on following the data to make a proper repair and help out. I enjoy watching your videos and others like Bernie at ATS and I learn a lot. I’ve even purchased my own4 channel PicoScope, WPS500, Pico NVH equipment, and other accessories (out of my own pocket) to help dealership technicians as best as I can. With a lot of dealerships it can be hard to be at multiple places at once with so many different technical requests that come in at times. I really enjoy helping getting vehicles fixed. Although corporate can push certain assignments that are in my opinion not needed and don’t help getting vehicles fixed it can get overwhelming to add to our workload. I’ve always prioritized getting vehicles fixed and all the non-important assignments I will push to the bottom. There is a lot to this industry and have been a Chrysler Technician before so I can understand the frustration trying to resolve an issue without the proper tools.

Ivan, I'm a diehard Toyota fan, and every car I've had has been a Toyota. I want to take a minute and just say that I have never seen such a dedicated dealership technician like Sean who goes out of his way to find a problem like this. This guy is amazing. To contact the Toyota engineers themselves to for help is awesome. I also want to say that I have never had such a crazy problem like this with any of my cars either. This tech is awesome 👌 👏.

These engineers and managers are why lemon laws were implemented. They are more worried about closing out cases for the spreadsheet than they are the quality of service to the customer.

This is a textbook on what not to do. I hope the dealer learns and Sean gets a proper pat on the back for reaching out to Ivan.

The technician that reached out to you is the type that succeeds in life 👊🏻

First of all, hats off to Sean! He's a responsible and dedicated professional that should set an example for others! Crazy problem and very impressive study you made, Ivan!!! No way this could have been seen, without the 4-channel scope! Quite likely, the P0019 stems from the distorted waveform the sensor outputs, and the P0018 was just a mishap installing the timing chain, that should not have happened, if there was a proper scope in the first place, and none of that unnecessary mechanical work (courtesy of the tech support) should have been done. Can't wait for part 2!!

Dude you are a rare soul in the world today.

I'm a bit surprised a main dealer didn't have a 4 channel scope in their diagnostic arsenal. As Ivan said you can't diagnose cam/crank codes without one. So how did this dealer management and the Toyota 'engineer' expect Sean to fix it without the right diag kit...yeah,when you don't know, fire! Sean is an exceptional and coherent diag technician. Good on you Ivan for what you did. 2 smart guys working together, just like you and Keith.

The dedication of this tech is rare to say the least, hopefully he still has a job once this truck is repaired because making the people above you look foolish is in most cases not a tool for employment longevity. I am looking forward to tomorrow night's show, and Ivan my hat is off to you for taking the time to help the beacon of shinning light in a dealer shop resolve this.

You never want a technician that knows all the answers. You DO want a tech that explores all of his or her resources to find the answers. No one can possibly know everything, and if they do they likely know very little to be honest. Cheers to you Ivan for helping this guy out. Also kudos to Sean for exploring other options when he felt it was out of control and hitting a wall.

As a tech who does everything possible to do right by my customers through my successes and my failures, huge props to Sean for finally standing up for the customer, staying humble about the limitations they have in this case, and reaching out to someone more equipped to tackle this crazy case. Much respect to you Sean, the industry is better off with techs like you representing it.

Ivan!!! 7 months Toyota had my same year Truck… Got it back with same issue. Went back they said leave it and they will try to figure it out again…. Nope; went across the street and bought a new truck!

Awesome that you are willing to help Sean. Pico Scope diag took me back to school when we used old green screen lug about scopes. I agree management doesn't understand the cost savings of the right tool. I don't want to go into a long story. Had network problem at work. 6 months they fought to solve the problem. I finally convinced them to give me read only access to the switches. I brought in my own protocol sniffer . 10 minutes later I found the impossible. 2 device on the network had the exact same mac address. Showed them the capture. Told them to change out one of the device with a new oem device. BOOM! PROBLEM SOLVED. Tell Sean awesome job! He needs a to tell his boss he needs a raise!

I find it hard to believe that these dealerships don’t have the proper diagnostic equipment to form an accurate diagnosis. This alone is the head of the parts cannon demon. I enjoy your work and I learn greatly from watching the way you tackle these issues. Thanks so much and God bless!

I really don't see how they can charge somebody for parts that didn't fix the car

When I worked at a regional repair center, I asked my boss for a Huntron Tracker. I made a very compelling argument how this tool would save many hours a day in troubleshooting time, which is why I felt we should have it. They got it for me! And it DID boost productivity immensely once you learned how to use it. TOOLS are important. The RIGHT tools are invaluable. 👍

Once the parts cannon is fired like this, it can turn into a money pit an a disaster for the customer…🤦🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️💯

great to see a main dealer tech backing the customer

Had a lexus once with a tooth knocked off the reluctor ring on the crank. I actually welded a tooth and shaped it with cut off wheel. Good times good times lol

I sincerely hope that tech stays in the industry! God knows we need more techs like him! This stuation is exactly why we need to change the industry once and for all.

I agree with your assessment. 99% sure aftermarket CMP sensor. Timing off a tooth not too bad we have all done it. I have had the same experience with our factory engineers as he just had. ( automated cartesian cells for electronic assembly production ). Would send us down a rabbit hole of tasks until we would deduce that they had no clue, never seen it or did not wish to give in information ( they would not always tell us everything. A Japanese thing ) even that we work for them and paid by them.

You kill me with these multiple part videos Ivan!!!

Ivan, you should coerce your pico contacts to get the tech who sent you this mail a 8 channel scope for their personal toolbox. They clearly know how to use such a thing and when. They are also on flat rate, so they are way in the hole on this but determined to resolve it for the customer but being hampered by pish poor employer provided kit. Do the right thing, costs you nothing, costs pico one scope, PR opportunities abound, one less talented thorough diagnostician leaves the trade disillusioned and burnt out. Do it. :D

So the problem after replacing the starter and after chasing timing codes and replacing the timing chains (creating another problem), may very well be a chinesium CPS. So again new doesn't always mean good; especially aftermarket electrical components. The issue with strange timing issues reminds me of an Eric O video where the cam reluctor wheel had come loose.

Brilliant diagnosis so far! I hope you have found the solution that is illusive but always discoverable. “Persistence is Omnipotent” It’s a joy to watch you work! Bravo 👏

Beautiful view in the back. You are a good man with a good life

Being a modern mechanic working flat rate is not on my bucket list.

Not a Tech, not by a long shot but have some experience in older, carby style engines. your videos are an amazing, eye opening insight into what my son has to go through and learn as a mechanic in todays world. I stopped telling people that I taught him all he knows about mechanics a long time ago, I have even suggested that he watch some of your video's. Keep up the good work.

Kudos to Sean here. You couldn't have done this without his excellent work.

Nice to see those of you who are looking out for the customer and not some upper management. Thanks Ivan.

Ivan! I want to thank you for helping Sean out. This to be commended and emulated when fellow professionals are in need of some help and others are willing to fully engage and help out. I also want to thank and commend Sean to being an automotive technical professional that has the customers best interest at heart and knows that proper diagnosis is a better, faster, cheaper route to take to solving the problems! WELL DONE to all!!! I look forward to part 2!

while that one was a parts cannon dealership, the one I went to for a jeep problem was ANTI parts cannon. they were too busy looking at the computer. once I got rid of the thing, it was a pure "you" problem. originally, I had bought a new battery for the jeep and the tech installed the thing backwards (the jeep had the wrong group battery in it, facing the other direction for better cable fit, and I'd bought the correct one). after getting rid of it, it turned out to be a popped fusable link! i didn't even know those still existed. this problem is what prompted me to start watching you guys' channels to begin with. there were later problems with the same vehicle (body damage, incorrect lug nuts all around, and the guy I'd traded it to swapped new wheels on, and didn't think to tighten them down to spec, having the wheel come off in mid drive, destroying the driver's fender!)

I can't freakin' wait to hear the results!!! Ivan, you are awesome...

That's some great diagnostic skill, Ivan. You're a rare breed. Hat tip.

Wish more techs were like you and Sean... Awesome video as always Ivan!

Best teacher of scope related content bar none!! Thanks for sharing your knowledge 😎👍

From just a lifelong auto enthusiast I agree with Ivan! Kudos to Sean for a transparent learning journey!

You’re a G my guy. You motivate me to get better. But summer coming in motivates me to just be quick 😅

Excellent diag Ivan! We can all learn so much from this video. Not just how important having a multichannel scope is, but more importantly, not to start changing parts before being sure of what is causing the symptoms. (The root cause of the problem). Thanks for all your great diag videos. Can’t wait to see part 2! 👍🏻👍🏻

Only 10 minutes in and I can’t wait for this saga!! Go get it Ivan!

Your technical analysis is amazing Ivan!

All your videos are great but this one is very great! Ivan you are amazing and so is Sean. I was a mechanic for 45+ years and seen similar kinds of bullshit that Sean is going through. I am excited to see what the problem was.

Thank you Ivan for all that you do!

I'm a retired eng tech (not in automotive industry). I'm not sure what will solve the automotive industry since it seems to be the same problem with almost all corporate owned industries. These companies are driven by their marketing and accounting departments.

Once again into the fray......Ivan to the rescue!!!!! I love how you bring the Pico Scope down to earth for those of us learning and I have been able to take that knowledge and a Pico and use it in my own field (Industrial maintenance) for "Seeing" the high speed signals from photo sensors need on our machines. There are just some problems where you need to see everything at once to figure out whats wrong (and sometimes just to what is right) and the Pico scope (and also "Pico-on-steroids E-scope from good old Bernie Thompson) save the day with 4 to 8 channels of data at the same time. Even though I don't need a scope, having one to save the day is a blessing and as you say "worth it's weight in Gold". Can't wait for part two and thanks so much for being a source of help and knowledge for so many lucky customers Ivan. Take care and have a great weekend.

One more thing needs checking is the timing waves to the actual cam and crank mechanical positions with scope check of pressure transducer wave to see if the timing wave is actually in time with the cam and crank. Sitting on the edge of my seat for the conclusion. Rooting for Sean👏👏👏👏

This guy walks around with a cane and house music follows him

Wow, this is super cool. Hats off to Sean for seeking help from you and hats off to you for helping. Very sad the company didn't send someone to the dealership. I was a factory rep. for Mercedes and was often sent to dealerships to help with problems the mechanics couldn't find answers to. Those engineers offering advice over the phone simply can't compare to actually being there #nd putting hands on the vehicle. Hopefully you've at least narrowed the problem down to just a couple of things to correct. Can't wait to see the results. Hope the dealership accepts accountability and doesn't charge the customer for their ineptness.

Every time I hear these symptoms. I think wrong or defective parts, or installation problems. Great diag as usual and details explained great.

Sean you the man for wanting to better yourself. My bets are on Ivan

kudos for volunteering to help.

You always post right when I can't watch the whole thing right away 😂 I know this will be a good one!

Ivan I'm very impressed with this techs attitude and approach to finding this issue as someone who had the benefit of learning from a old school auto shop teacher who valued knowing how to diagnose problems more than knowing how to open parts boxes...this techs frustration with those who are supposed to help him is understandable ...sadly I've heard similar frustration from other techs who reach out to support with similar results...from what you showed I believe you right the cam gear is off one tooth explaining the second code and a faulty cam sensor is also likely if it's aftermarket...looking forward to part 2 when I hope this techs determination to help the customer is rewarded with a good result ..the industry needs more techs like Sean and yourself.....Karl from eastern Canada

Iven your questions are brilliant

Ivan , very well done

Interesting diagnosis. Unfortunately there are still many mechanics who don't know what electricity means. It doesn't take an engineering degree to be able to diagnose electrical problems in cars, but you would need to spend time and effort to do some training (school or just online) in order to understand these things. Regarding the cost of a Pico scope, I have no idea what they cost these days. When I went to college (40 years ago) Tektronics scopes were the thing to go, but they were > $10K and were designed for a lab bench, not to be dropped twice a day. These days I have seen scopes popping up on eBay for ~$100, not sure how good they are. The "consumables" with scopes are usually the probes, they are kind of fragile and cost considerable money as well (times 4).

I've been checking my notifications for the past 12 hours waiting for the part 2 of this video....

The sad thing for sean is that if toyota pays him it will be for warranty time only and no diag even though he has all the documentation to prove his time. Get out of the dealerships people. They will eventually have to change pay programs if they cant find techs. Dealership used to be the prestige of the automotive industry and imo it is now one step above being a lube tech at a drive through oil change store. That is not a shot at lube techs (thats where most of us started including myself) its a shot at the dealers. If they cant provide the equipment to diag one brand then why would anyone go to work for them. the tech is always the one to suffer in these scenarios. Thank you Ivan for taking the time to help this dedicated tech, and thank you Sean for being dedicated and concerned for the customer. I have a feeling Sean will make a great shop owner or at least service manager (for the customer and techs) in a very short time. Keep it up Sean its techs like you that give us older guys hope in the future of our industry.

As always a very instructive video. I think you are spot on with your diagnosis. Maybe he can reset the right bank #2 cams from the top without having to take the cover off. I’ve seen some hotshot techs reset cam timing on these engines that way. Also what if the exhaust cam sensor had water in it, I know it’s a long shot but I have seen that happen.

Ivan, I agree it sure looks obvious that the main timing chain on bank2 is 20 deg off (2 cam teeth, since cam sprocket should have double the teeth compared to crank sprocket), but your second theory about the aftermarket CMP sensor was eye-opening to me. Clearly you have analyzed the lag and the width of the EX pulses and clearly something is out of whack. I was thinking that the timing sensor blade plate on the exhaust cam was not right for this engine, but I agree that your theory on the aftermarket sensor seems more likely. Sean needs to look at both when he goes in there. Fantastic work, with all due respect to Keith DeFazio, you are probably the most influential guru to the automotive diagnostic community worldwide!

It's so funny that people think a snorkel intake turns a Tundra into a submarine. Nice catch in finding the differential in the width of the signal. I hope this doesn't mean you're going to move to North Carolina and join the war-room; solving the unsolvable without getting your hands dirty.

OMG a bad CMP sensor the whole time! Thats going to be a tough pill to swallow if that is the case! Poor Sean! I've been there before myself a few times... You just have to take whatever you learn from the experience and hopefully improve yourself over time. I just had a Dodge Ram 5.9 Magnum come in with 113K miles and the classic internal intake manifold vacuum leak (truck cuts out under acceleration)- THis was a new problem to me and I spent 3 hours (that i can't charge the customer for) chasing this problem when all i had to do was block the PCV and check for vacuum at the crankcase breather- you can bet that I am checking that on every Magnum engine that comes in from here on out!.

With this kind of code rough idle will be my first thing to pay attention to thats to isolate if its an actual mechanical problem or otherwise. Could be a bad cam in that case i would check pulse width at various points of the capture, if it is a bad cam i'd normally see big discrepancies between pulses not consistent variance. With such codes i sometimes need to physically see the reluctor wheel with a borescope to eliminate any reluctor damage ( while manually spining the engine ). Surprised u didnt count ex cam sproket teeth, as its more likely to would've jumped, cause originally the car was throwing Ex cam timing only codes not both. Normally pcms r right in determining a timing issue so this should have been a straight forward diag. I'd say Sean called the right man for help, Enjoyed it as always, Thanks Ivan.

When the Customer used his Toyota Truck as a USS Nautilus Submarine and the hours Sean put in the best thing is replace the engine the customer is going to pay hours of diagnostic service that will be in the thousands of dollars it would have been cheaper to replace the engine .. The worst thing Toyota did was put a snorkel on their 4 by 4 trucks .. After reading how deep that engine was underwater that engine is Tost you might fix the timing issue for a while but what's next ?? Just remember Water is the Strongest Material in the world and it will destroy anything in its path including Toyota engines .. BTW great video Mr Ivan loves to see the fix and helping Sean out that was really nice of you to do so

Ohhh this should be a good one! That is so cool that this guy reached out to You. I’m sure it is resolved. Maybe they can get You to resolve the transfer case actuator problems that they have no clue about someday too! 👍👍😍😍🇺🇸

Welcome to Pine Hollow Armchair Diagnostics! 😂 Absolute king, lol.

Dear Ivan, You are so right, not having the equipment that is needed to CHECK the correct sequences of operation, means your the fish out of water, LEARNING BY EXPERIENCE IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY. But yes it will help!

It could still be the camshaft itself. I have seen a couple of times that somebody put a magnetic base work light on the camshaft, magnetizing it and modifying how the camshaft sensor responds. In this case, it seems that all pulses are effected evenly, so it is unlikely, but it still needs to be verified by swapping the camshaft sensor with the other bank before ordering a new one.

Phenomenal diagnosis Ivan.

Awesome stuff! I am very much looking forward to knowing if there are any twists in part II. Having said that, I agree with your conclusions from the data so far!

What a story. Thanks for the brilliant video Ivan!

Epic, is the correct word. Great job as always Ivan.

Oooh this is gonna hurt!! That’s a lot of money and a lot of labor with that parts cannon!! This mechanic needs to open his own shop and leave the flat-rate corporate mentality. Mechanics with his honor and dedication don’t last in dealership land. They either get broken into the mentality of dealerships or they can’t and leave. Hate to see another dedicated mechanic stay and lose his honor and loyalty to the customer for his ability to feed his family. Horrible design for the tech and the customer reference dealerships. Awesome that you spent your time and experience helping this guy out! Can’t wait to see what ends up happening!! God bless~

Nice catch.. Always go back to the basics. The problem was even more simple than expected. (well, the original problem). Having the known good is crucial. Getting a known good from other existing cars is the genius I won't forget. If only the guy would have sent these to you BEFORE digging into that timing cover.. smh

"Apparently something got worse." Sounds like my physical therapist after working on my shoulder today.

Ivan, your suspicion of the cause is reasonable. I worked at one of the oem's and would use a chart recorder which is basically an oscilloscope that puts the signal on paper to capture cam/crank signals. I'd find crazy things like the wrong year crankshaft was installed which had a different sensor tooth pattern. The pattern has more teeth for higher resolution for misfire detection requirements.

You, sir, are a prince.

The gap between the sensor and the trigger has changed, hence the change in the width of the pulse.

This video warmed my heart man. Great job, your and Sean.

I agree with you Ivan about the scope. I would have asked them to get a cheap Hantek with leads $200 in desperation.

Fair play thus far

Amazing you are helping a dealership. You should think about teaching classes. Eric and yourself must be the two best fault-finders in the USA. Dealerships are no better here in England

The engineers did learn something about this problem. Toyota discontinued the eight cylinder engine altogether.

This 5.7L uses a 36-2 CKP signal so each tooth is 10*, if your bad B2 is only off by 5* on the exhaust, we will need to find out why since the chain should not be stretched this quickly, as for the 22* on the intake, typically 1 mechanical drive gear chain tooth is about 15* so it is off by about a tooth and a half, also strange, let's see if the tensioner is a problem, still watching??? OK, found the 20* on the crank gear, sweet, had to have been installed wrong. I see some Bernie Thompson skills here IVAN, very nice. Let's see in Part 2 if it is a VVT floating issue or simply a bad timing and bad sensor issue? For folks reading this comment, and you are going to post a waveform from this engine, it is also the same as a 60-2 waveform MEANING, where we ask that you post a minimum of 3+1 CKP missing tooth sections. It is nice that this waveform can be manipulated, not all scopes offer this. More to this story but this is good enough.

Distance affects aftermarket sensors for cmp’s much more. Non oem sensors can give faulty readings even when just a millimeter distance different from on cmp’s from factory. The magnets inside are different. My bet is the sensor causing the issue.

Can anyone explain to me why I am an utterly fascinated watching Ivan show his expertise, while I have no idea what he is talking about 90% of the time? And it isn't because he is lax in his explanation, it is because I am an idiot about this stuff. BUT watching him has caused me to upgrade most of my tools and a good code reader at least.

I have been out-of-town and trying to play catch-up. I haven't watched the video yet and Ivan, I remember some time back you, Keith DeFazio, and Keith Perkins with L1 Automotive was working on a car that had been submerged and I don't remember the outcome. THIS IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING!

There may be a dealer shop somewhere that can fix difficult problems but I never found it. They will sell you a tune up and fluid flushes including those ' you needed anyway'. But usually your problem persists.

I always have popcorn when I'm about to watch a video. It's my whodunnit shows like NCIS, etc..except this is real life. Who needs Monk, Blue Bloods, Law and Order, I'll be watching this in syndication. Great job as always, I love the plan of action creation and root cause analysis that like House figuring out what happened to patient when everyone else couldn't.

Goes to show you that a dealer ship is a dealer ship and not a outfit to solve a problem. The management has to change their practices and start helping the customer. Shawn seems to be a promising mechanic that will be a step ahead of other mechanics.

The most incredible part of this saga to me is that the dealership geniuses, all the way up to the highest tier of tech support, are parts changers FIRST, and that the tech is crippled with an old, dusty PICO resurrected from a tool room bin. ATTENTION VIEWERS: Welcome to the dealership.

Ivan, no fair, you are an engineer. Haha. Seriously though, you have a great background in electronic analysis with 4-channel oscopes and, apparently, technicians (and a lot of engineers) aren't given this training in trade schools. I too worked for years in USAF electronics development, analysis and repair and I quickly learned that the "competent use" of the 4-channel oscope was essential. I didn't learn to use it in college either (Va Tech BSEE '84), but I learned how to use it on the job and realized that you can do almost anything with it and you really can't do much without it.

Nightmarish to have to replace components when your unsure it will fix it, and then to have it have an extra problem. But awesome work by the tech for seeking out other input, It's really hard when you know there's a better way to do something but are held back by shop process. I wonder if there is an air gap issue on the offending original side, a little tiny burr stopping the sensor sitting properly or such.

Original camshaft sensor was damaged by going underwater, he mentioned they replaced the pigtail from a non-OEM sensor. The should have just replaced the sensor. That's my guess of the problem.

Thanks for the video Ivan, He contacted the right guy.