@@RatziFatzi Well idk, walls shouldn't count as landings if it's just a touch and successive jumps should give points at least within a certain timeframe for single jump tricks (multiplier as well) and there should be points based on the trick type as well. To keep it competetive for untimed single stunts it should be fastest to reach points and finish and for timed ones just the points but also there should be a percentage penalty for finishing late (take twice as long as timer=50% points) and lose priority in case of a point tie. If they wanted, they could also add the possiblity for max points per stunt or average points maps where time is given generously (like 1min) and then you only lose priority if someone is faster but if you take 1m 30s you lose 25% points. Or they could make the percentage absolute and just say take twice as long = 0 points I think that's fair too. Rn it's nothing to be hyped about but I hope it'll change for the content
Doing the most stunts under a time limit makes way more sense. In surfing, in gymnastics, in skateboarding, in almost anything else your final score is the sum of all the tricks you did
Every other video game I have seen that does something like this, be it skateboarding games (Tony Hawk's stuff, Skate) or with cars (Burnout Paradise, that Forza game that everyone plays except me), you get a timer to do your next trick and the total points get multiplied by the number of tricks. Trackmania is weird.
@@dunkinduu It's really not that intuitive tho. Having a mode that is so confusing to understand is just bad design, it should be understandable relatively quickly especially since you not only play sort of "tutorial" maps (which are bad at being a proper tutorial but still) and you have a bunch of text at the start explaining what's going on and yet it's still confusing for most people. That's just bad design.
It's almost impressive how much they messed up the execution of a concept as fantastic as "Tony Hawk meets Trackmania" but they somehow did exactly that
I feel like the idea of best trick scoring is cool, but the execution isn't all there. It's an interesting constraint to put on a level but as a main game mode it feels confusing and limiting
Yeah, it should be a setting mappers can enable, not baked in. Though with the checkpoint combo system it seems like you can get points for more than one stunt? Idk. It's weird.
you can just set the time limit low enough to only allow one good stunt and if there are bugs like with the wall were the multiplier fails you at least get points for the 2nd stunt aswell
I think the current checkpoint system makes it more interesting if the map considers it, which the first maps kinda fail at. You have x time after each checkpoint to get your highest score for the CP. This kind of forces you to take the "worse ramps" and perform some tricks there, where on the old system you can just farm the highest earning jumps again and again.
@@jonnyb2956 I feel like encouraging players to only play the track once and hunt each checkpoint over and over like they're trying to make a tas that's just good enough for author metal totally kills any potential it has. Normally in trackmania part of the skill in improving your time involves knowing how much to push the limit on each checkpoint and the clock allows for very small details to matter. A game mode where only the number of your combo and the best jump you do matter means that all those detail get squeezed out and you just reset until the physics happen to work out instead of having to get consistant at it.
i feel like the biggest problem is that the "clean landing" feels too inconsistent. It's not rewarding when the thing that u need to get a good score feels completely random
From all I've seen of this mode, by now instead of actual devs making an actual mode, it makes more sense to assume an actual gigatroll snuck into Nadeo and yeeted this, meticulously crafting the worst experience one could imagine for the whole package.
That is one of the good carry-overs from the old game mode. Problem is that it wasn't as necessary in most maps as just doing wicked stuff was more important.
I installed TM Sunrise to have a feel of what the Stunt mode will be like when they announced it. It was very fun. But when the new mode was released, I was extremely dissapointed. I prefer "Do as many cool shit in the time limit" rather than "perfect this singular jump or else no medal"
@@chapstickbomber sure, but in race mode, you have a clear goal in mind, what tricks you have to do to get a better time. But with stunt mode, you might as well say "Duct Tape, Take the Wheel! "
I assumed that Wirtual was just going to be salty because it's different but it's such a weird decision that it only counts your best score. I guess it's because there's no time limit so it could easily be exploited, but then... why not just add a time limit? The instructions for how to play are also a bit awkwardly worded imo.
Or maybe add an option to have a time limit? I don't get why options are avoided so often, they could easily have a "Cumulative (Timed)" and "Best Trick (Untimed)" checkbox or radio selection.
Not sure what you mean that it only counts your best score. Whenever you hit a checkpoint it works the same as the old mode for ten seconds, then at the end gives you a bonus for your best trick. The main problem with this mode is the trick detection and the fact that you're allowed to retry checkpoints as long as you want.
There basically is a time limit. That's what the combo meter is for. It's realistically the same format as the old mode but instead of lowering your score when you run out of time you just go again
The time limit is linked to the checkpoints. Your score will stop being added after the time runs out in which case you to respawn to try for a higher one.
keeping in mind that i don't play TM2020, the issue i'm seeing here is that there isn't really any creative freedom on the maps. forcing specific cars is already bad enough, especially when the most the non-stadium cars tend to be able to do is spin horizontally, but the actual map designs are just paradoxical when combined with the multiplier. more often than not the best place for a good stunt is the very first place on the map that you stunt from, which means the best thing you can conceivably do in a run is just going to be your first multiplier, and that stupid 180 you barely pull off before the timer runs out is your money maker. that feels so backwards to me. that, and the maps are built in such a way that they force specific stunts, which is the opposite of what you want to do in a mode that's objectively meant to be based on creativity. honestly, i think that if these were stunt tutorials that teach players what they can do with the non-stadium cars, they'd be perfect as a warm-up to bigger and more open stunt maps, but if this is all that the stunt mode currently has to offer then it really is just a huge wasted opportunity.
The early maps really just attempt to introduce the basics of clean landings for score bonuses, checkpoints, etc. You get larger environments with more creative freedom in the later levels.
I'm a big fan of highscore/arcade games but man they did the bare minimum possible. Fuck, their different levels amount to "we have a single ramp" and that's about it, not even a halfpipe... The only interesting thing is the checkpoint system but realistically those should be one time use. A much cooler highscore/trick mode would be a multiplayer variant where you get a decently large park where you could do tricks in, have minute (or less) exploration and then all set a single big trick and have a way to chain tricks into one trick (maybe a depleting timer after landing that stops in the air and partially refills after a chained trick). Even if they're dead set on just single player only have at least a scoreboard but only show ghosts for people with a lower score than you, this is to avoid and disincentivise players to just copying the currently winning strategy and actually try to engage and understand the point system and finding the best place to score.
@dmarsub they still are very bland as you do one or two different stunts and then repeat like the multicolour one was just ramps into the same quarterpipe nothing to bounce of or get cool flips with
@@dmarsub Yea, I looked into the other maps. There are certainly better maps than the 50 shades of quarter pipe what Wirtual played. The introductory courses really should just be about "this is what's cool about this game mode!" while teaching you the systems, they really fail at both. (And it isn't helped that the point system is poorly explained in text and rather esoteric to begin with)
I'll be surprised if it isn't changed given how much people hate it. I don't get how game devs work really hard on something, and then no one likes it, but they don't change it. Like ???
the annoying thing is its supposed to reward creativity and good driving, but usually its just some random jump you can do that gets more points than others
Yep, some pretty bad game design there. I would have built: - Maps are a large open area filled with things to trick off, similar to a skatepark. - There are multiple finish lines and multiple paths you could take to them. - Points are totalled over the run - Runs have a time limit. When the time limit is exceeded, your points start ticking down at an exponential rate. - Tricks all have a base score with bonus multipliers for speed, rotations, precision (clean landing angle, using all your air time, passing through risky finish-like gates, etc) and chaining tricks together within X seconds. - Include racing tricks like bugslides and drifts that can be used to keep a combo chain going Done. A mode that encourages players to do fast, precise, creative, skill based lines while also making use of the racing skills they already have. Took 5 minutes.
I like how you mostly retold the concept of TMUF stunts mode. :) On top of that I would to add a progressing Respawn Penalties for respawning multiple times in a run to prevent grinding points from the map elements which give more points than other by abusing respawn mechanics.
@@ArchangelTirael I'm not familiar with TMUF stunts mode, but I'm not surprised it's basically the same. The game design for this kind of mode has been "solved" for over a decade.
I agree. I also expected to have wheelie points with the desert car. I mean for me it was obvious, cause the desert car is built to tilt when you steer. It would be so much fun to see who can maintain the longest one sided wheelie with the desert car without landing on the back.
@@Halimat2.0 wow I'm ABLE TO DO 4 THINGS? this mode is a complete fucking joke. There is so much more they could have made a full tony hawk style experience for it and we'd have something great, make a timed mode and sandbox mode, but instead we get a couple of jumps and a juicebox
@@Ramonatho you cant download one either but so many people have mcqueen skins. There is a lot of creative things they could have done other than tracking air time and rotation. Drifts, hops, wheelies, 2-wheels, 1 wheels, grinding the frame rails, TURTLING would be sick for combos
The mutiplier shouldn't be from a clean landing, but from the amount of points from the previous stunt in a short time frame. So you would get more points from a perfect 360 into a 180 than a perfect basic 0° jump into a 540°
This needs to have powerups like SSX Tricky where you get extra aerial momentum for flips or spins, bonus speed boosts, etc. And the maps need to be more designed for pulling off actual tricks rather than just quarterpipes and hills... imagine you could "grind" on a rail with your car haha you gotta actually be rewarded more for doing cool things and not just making clean landings
the checkpoint system of the new system looks fun, but yeah you're right it needs some form of pressure to at least *try* to go fast, and some better trick detection and better tricks
The highest point stunt is what counts. If you land just right, you receive a multiplier to the next stunt you do. So the idea is that you setup your real stunt with a simple jump perfectly landed before hand. On the "combo" maps, every point you get during the combo time is added to the total, your final score is whatever total you have at the end of the time. That's it. It's really not that hard to understand, it's just kinda bad.
Ppl don't read all the rules and just jump into it, that's why they don't understand how to get pts... As long as you land the 4 weels at almost the same time you get a multiplier, Perfect is the basic one, Master is no input since 1s and Epic is no input since 3s. Aim for a landing like Master or Epic and then do a stunt, pass the first maps and reach the fun ones.
Having separate timers for each checkpoint is really neat (you could play this in a longer map), but having a park score instead of a run score is awful.
I feel like "cumulative score", "best stunt", "multiple lines" should be sub-categories within the Stunt feature menu. Letting the player choose their preferable limitations and style.
Came back to trackmania after a few months, tried out this mode before that video came out, got confused as hell and almost just quit the game again after 30 minutes
3:50 Now I understand the trick system infinitely better. So there's the whole "Not doing air control for X seconds gives a higher multiplier" thing. At first a lot of people thought it meant you should be doing no inputs before landing, but what it really means is that you should avoid changing your inputs, so if you leave the ramp full steering, continue full steering through the whole jump, and land full steering, then with a clean landing it would count as a "no air control" jump.
Game: Land cleanly with your wheels pointing straight forward for a multiplier Wirt: Lets do a yee yee ass ramp clip at a 45 degree angle and continue spinning until the car spears itself into the ground
Just going to post this to the void, but I have really enjoyed the new stunt mode. I found the old mode to be a little intense and occasionally frustrating. Definitely fun but not something to just chill and do spins in (if you want to get high scores/medals). Resetting whole runs because one little thing landed wrong felt so bad. Whereas this is much more forgiving. Still very reset heavy (moreso even), but resetting single jumps or 10 second CPs, rather than full courses. I saw a post mentioning that this is meant to be EXTREMELY casual friendly, thus no time limit or obvious leaderboards (although it really needs to add leaderboards imo). That makes sense to me. It feels very casual friendly, someone with 0 trackmania experience or knowledge can grind for a bit and get ATs very consistently (once they understand the gamemode a bit). Where that just wasn't very true in the earlier stunt modes. At least anecdotally, not for me or my friends. Which brings me to a second point, like other's have mentioned, I haven't seen a single streamer not be immediately confused by this game mode. I didn't get quite as confused, but I didn't have a chat of people in my face posting negative comments while I was learning it lol. I think a HUGE portion of the problems people initially had could've been solved be having a better intro to the game mode (either a better instructions screen or like a 90 second demo/instruction video or smth), and a big sign in the front that said 'Great for new players!' It feels like there's been a crazy disproportionate amount of negativity around this mode. The community has generally been loudly claiming 'this is garbage' since ~2 minutes after the update went live. Which seems very unfair, especially since it's been widely noted a lot of the people who initially disliked the game mode have started to really enjoy it (after a few hours of learning it). I seriously hope Nadeo doesn't kill this JUST because so much of the community have been screaming negativity without giving it a fair chance or understanding who this mode is for. Hopefully they add some of the obviously lacking features (ghosts, replays, real viewable leaderboards, I'm sure a few other things), keep introducing better maps, and don't listen to a majority of this early feedback
I do like some of the changes like the basic idead behind the "parks" and the fact that the timer holds while in air. To get the best of both worlds, maybe one can do something like the following: You get a time limit, within which you can do as many parks as possible but each only once. Within each park a cumulative multiplier gets created, i.e. for every clean stunt you get +0.5, +1 or +1.5 on your total multiplier and at the end the total score of a park gets multiplied with the multiplier of the park, encouraging the chaining of multiple tricks. Maybe you can also make it that each type of trick can only once add to the multiplier for a park, so that you can't just repeat the same trick all the time. Then also scrap the single best individual stunt mechanic. I guess Nadeo didn't want such a mechanic to not overwhelm the playerbase, but then they gave us a textwall^^
Things I would do to improve the mode: - Remove checkpoints, and have a designated 'ground' area with boosters. Each map has a limited number of times you can visit the ground area before you no longer can get points. - Have lots of plastic entities to bounce off. Each unique one you hit before hitting the ground adds to your combo multiplier, and spins/flips etc that occur between each bounce count as individual tricks for points as well. - Each entity/block gives less points for each time it is used to encourage different trick setups / routes every time you hit the ground for the next trick combo. - Resets allowed, but takes some points away every time it's used (to encourage doing it all in one clean run). - Add leaderboards where you can watch replays, as with normal tracks. People will want to see how insane the WR run is, and that will incentivise people to hunt for that coveted WR. - Don't punish air control (at the very least, make 'PERFECT' landings possible with it) as this is in itself a skill, especially if the tracks get more wacky. tl;dr Make the game mode more crazy, lots of bounces and wacky shit. WR runs would be a combination of good setups/routes, skilful air control, and lucky bounces. It should feel more like a crazy kacky map, but the goal is to just use the game's janky physics to do the most wicked thing you can.
Alright so... It seems like they wanted to give mappers more options and creativity. You could have combo timers, multiple even, chained together, or you could make a map focused on getting a single really good stunt, etc. But then... Why not just give the mappers settings like "only count best stunt" or "no time limit" rather than box them into this weird system?
Nadeo: completely re-use a 20 years old car, handling... Everything, even collision bugs. Nadeo when they should also completely re-use gamemodes: Nah, let's just break this gamemode
Hard to understand how it works when you don't read ALL the rules, on the top right you have the landing rules that perfectly explain how to get ¨Perfect, Master and Epic" but it's normal to suck at it when you don't read it... As long as you land the 4 weels at almost the same time you get a multiplier, Perfect is the basic one, Master is no input since 1s and Epic is no input since 3s. Wirtuals didn't read that, Granady read it but forget it after the first map... But yeah not really fun since you just have flips for pts and nothing else.
Design-wise, I think the design of this gamemode means to encourage good landings without excessive air control more-so than epic twists in the air. Epic multipliers for having your wheels land smoothly mains speed and lets you use that multiplier to get even higher points. The older game had very irregular terrain, so there was a lot of freeform 'hit it and see how bad we crash' that it had going for it. TM2020 has very smooth terrain so there is less of that variation to be had in the jumps themselves, but they've added challenge by making the landing a very important part of it. I have no clue why they didn't include a timer though. Or maybe the timer is something that's infinite when playing locally, but something that can be configured on a server for a more competitive approach.
I think the new format is more similar to real life snowboarding, skiing, diving, etc. Basically stunt competitions where it's one big downhill or fall and you do one big stunt or combination of stunts. In comparison to the old mode which was more like skating competitions for example. Personally I also think I prefer it because the old mode was just so freeform that I never knew what to do to actually get high scores, there were too many things to try. I was always bored playing it with no clear objective of what to do and most mappers made the timers way too long imo. Here it's just one big stunt that you have to perfect, easier for noobs to figure out imo. But I can understand if you're already used to the old mode this will probably feel like a downgrade / too much of a simplification. Either way, stunt mode is still not for me anyway so my opinion shouldn't really matter.
This mode needs a rework, but the comment section seems to miss the mark as to why. It's ok that straight landings and no air control are rewarded. Not needing aircontrol means either you jumped off perfectly or got lucky. The problem is that they are weighted *way* too much through the multipliers, so people feel they are required, and they are binary either its perfect or its worthless there needs to be a gradient. Lucky landings are less of a problem if the timeframe for tricks would be longer, as you can't just bruteforce one trick rewarding skill. Lastly having the multiple cp's on one map makes the grind very unsatisfying, because it forces you to keep playing even thought you already got that perfect run you wanted, or you waste it. Thats contradictory to the core of trackmania. Getting that one perfect satisfying run. Also obviously multiplayer servers, and consistent maps less focussed on spins but also flips and barrel rolls. (Problem with "new" cars ofc) I understand their thoughts behind their design (no time to get into in detail) but instead of intuitive and transparent it is just clunky and not very fun sadly. I understand their approach to the combo system and time limit, it makes sense on paper but not in practice. Really hope they rework.
Many people commenting here did not see all/the new maps yet. There are more, but the checkpoint system makes it hard to build more open maps. The maps don't really matter people will build better maps, we need a better system. They tried to innovate, but it comes with a risk, time to cut their losses and start over.
I think the framework for a good mode is definitely there it just needs good maps. The timer after checkpoint can emulate the old style for stunt by only placing a single checkpoint right at the start of the level, where having several allows you to create a longer map without needing to do everything in one shot.
The current setup with a 5 min total timer might work OK. Still needs options for things like kissing the wall with a nose, grinds, opportunities for going on 2 wheels etc.
I think their intention was to nerf that top-level Stunts playstyle from the TMUF era, where people sometimes just find the ramp that give them the most score, find the nearest checkpoint if need then grind the same ramp over and over again all remaining time ignoring the respawn penalty because is neglectable small comparing the score they get afterwards. But failed miserably.
This version of this mode feels more like an optional side quest that should be in the original version of stunt mode. I.E highest score from most tricks, then you have a highest single sccore mode
I kinda miss the old TM United Forever 'stunt' mode. Platforming. It wasn't like RPG maps today where they are often deliberately obtuse and difficult to pathfind. Just a series of precise jumps without resetting as the goal. I spent so many hours in that mode as a teen, but there is nothing in the game currently that feels as good as that mode did.
Best stunt mode was TMSX. They had ghosts, they had awesome race maps... I like the checkpoint multiplier timer thing, but I think that could be *combined* with a standard "just add up the points" instead of "best trick" ... and instead make a "best trick" checkpoint
this could be changex in that the multipliers are more easy to hit, you can only score inside the time limit of the gates, and yoi cant retake them, if you drive outside the time of the gates you get punished by having the points of that gate removed, basicly the old mode with some tiny new twists to make for more interesting map building
I'm a pretty new player and semi-competitive and last time I played Trackmania I saw this and thought "Hey, lets try it!". I jumped in and was so confused most of the time. I really don't see where the fun should come from
Time limit would have been much better. The least they could do is introduce the old stunt mode as well so that people can choose if they want to play "best trick" or "time limit".
Understanding it and actually doing it are two different things. I understood how this game mode works perfectly after 15 minutes of experimentation. But that doesn't mean I can consistently do what I want or that I feel like it makes sense that it works like this. It doesn't feel natural to play at all, this game mode should be a combination of normal racing AND doing stunts like the old one was, trying to min max points without much consideration for time doesn't feel like track mania at all.
This mode looks so boring to play. The should have done something like this imo: - Have a time limit for each checkpoint in which you're expected to do stunts AND drive to the next checkpoint. - Stunt scores are additive, so more stunts is always better. Each stunt you land adds 0.5x to your multiplier. - Multipliers aren't applied until your combo ends. - Multipliers are capped (probably at 5x) to encourage doing more stunts but also better stunts. - Repeating the same stunt multiple times in a combo earns fewer points each time you do it. - You have a limited time between stunts to get to the next stunt or your combo ends. - If you fail to land a stunt your multiplier is cancelled and your combo ends. - If you get to the next checkpoint or to the finish late it starts removing score and it also counts as not landing a stunt. - Getting to the next checkpoint in time starts a new combo but keeps the previous multiplier. - Resetting / respawning removes all the score earned since passing it, and sets the multiplier back to 0, though it does restart the time limit. That might seem a bit complicated when looking at the exact details, but the basic idea can be explained very simply: - Do as many different stunts as you can while getting to the next checkpoint in time. - Clean landings increase your multiplier. - You get as many tries at each section as you want, but doing a section on your first try can earn you extra points. Sounds much more exciting to me.
This really looks really boring to play. The fun thing about stunt games is figuring out how to manage your inputs, position, and airtime, chaining things together in interesting environments with challenges just being thresholds to test your skills in those. I don't think Trackmania can achieve any of this to an actually interesting level at least not like this.
I would prefer the collective score count rather than best stunt. Wouldn't call it wasted, I see the vision but it needs fine tuned. Make it like old stunt mode and it'd be dope
i don’t think the “perfect” “master” and “epic” refer to how big the trick is, i believe it refers to the quality of the trick, i.e. how close to exactly 180, 360, 540, etc. you got without adjusting the car in the air.
Wasn’t the old stunt mode dead because it played itself out super quick? “Do as much as you can within the time limit” and then people did and then that was just, The Best Score and people moved on to new maps until they ran out because everyone was racing instead. Am I getting that wrong? I think that’s where best trick could come in handy. However, detection for certain things could use some work.
Feels like the absolute lack of control in the air ruins it not only do I not want to play it I definitely don't want to watch someone doing the same 180 up and down a half pipe. More control, and tie the scoring to more clearly defined things spins, jump height, landing cleanliness
I just started playing today because i only just saw that it was added to console, and i'm pretty happy with it, already pretty fast on the first sumer track.
I feel like they're suffocating the game mode. If the stunts were counted separately, it would give the players more creative freedom to score higher and have more diversity in the tricks they do. Instead, it feels more like a puzzle of trying to figure out the one specific stunt they want you to do, and then grinding to get it
