Thanks, Greg! 😊 The information you shared in this video is awesome! I'm 66 years old and a newbie to archery. I started about 6 months ago by taking lessons, joining an archery club, and buying a 35 lb PSE Nighthawk, which is like a Samick Sage. I depended on the recommendation of the guys at my archery shop and have .600 carbon arrows, cut down 1/2". Your information on arrows is invaluable to me moving forward. I saved your video to my list. I will review it over and over until I have the information down by memory until no part is confusing, and I have a fluent understanding of these concepts! 😊 i just bought a 64" 40 lb. Southwest Archery Spider XL. It comes with a Dacron string. I ordered a 60" D97 Flemish Twist string. I understand D97 is between Dacron and Fast Flight. I will consider all these factors to buy new arrows for my 64" 40 lb. Southwest Archery Spider XL.
Remember guys, it's not about length, it's about the stiffness 😅 Thankyou for this, really useful as salespeople always say different things which is frustrating. I'll be crafting my own instead soon for my off shelf recurve.
Auto subscribed. Mate YOU ARE THE MAN! Finally someone that knows what they are talking about, but you share all the knowledge in a way that is honest, easy to understand and in full in detail. I learnt more from this video, than watching hundreds of other videos where people only tell you little bits and pieces. It feels like people out there will share little bits and pieces on a subject, but intentionally withhold vital pieces of information from us? You however; share it ALL. my friend and must be commended on that. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And now I am going to watch all of your other videos.
Thank you so much for this awesome video....I'm new to archery and this video has clarified more about arrows than any other video i have viewed. Thank you for taking the time to make all of your very informative videos. I find you explain everything in terms even a newbie can understand. Thanks again.
This is the best, most thorough explanation of arrow performance out there. Take this info and use some of the other guys like, Jake Kaminsky to fine tune if you’re deep into target archery. THIS channel, Archery 101, is THE best for beginners!
I totally agree! I like the way Greg explains every detail simply as a teacher, so beginners, like me, can digest this information to understand what we are dealing with. I will watch this video repeatedly until I have the information inculcated!
My God this is the best educational video i have seen in a long time on RU-vid. I just got my new bow which happens to be a used recorve and this made my life so much easier to understand this part of the sport.
hi greg, i can see and hear arrows are definitely one of your passions. watching your video was amazing, that's a lot of information to take in but perfectly put. i'll enjoy watching this again to take notes. thanks.
been deer hunting with crossbow for about 5yrs. now and wanted to try archery, have a bear flare a friend gave me,but i wanted to start with a recurve blackhunter i got off amazon...watched alot of your vids and tried your technics and i'm getting groupings about the size of a 5gallon bucket at 20yds, never even held a bow before...anyway just wanted to thank you, your vids work for me!!!
Awesome thanks so much im brand new to archery and even though i baught my bow from a proper well known shop i learnt more from this than my apparent expert who sold me my gear. thanks for posting such a great vid.
Most informative, easy to understand, VERY relevant information on how & why that I have enjoyed & learned from so easily in my 67 yrs !!!! Goodonya Mate - Thankyou for taking the time to share this vital knowledge !!
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!! I have been looking all over for help spinning arrows for my horse bow, and what you've said explains so much about the issues I'm having.
I've watched a lot of these videos and you're the best at explaining well things that practicable and actionable! Thank you! The only thing that throws me once in a while is when you're shooting and show one of your arrows as too weak or too stiff and I'm like; wait, that's backwards! Then I remember you're a left hand shooter (& I'm right handed) so that's opposite & correct. LOL
this was a great video! just getting into archery and your channel has helped me learn so much. I especially like the bit of science you include when explaining why.
Excellent information! I'm TRYING to figure this out getting back to Traditional Archery with an Old Bear KODIAK Recurve... have been a compound shooter for 40+ years...it's not been an easy transition but I'm going to do this!!!
when you say center cut, am I measuring the width of the bow at the shelf? or am I not even close? thanks. Became a para a few years back and i'm having to relearn how to shoot sitting down, I have a 45lb L bow and a 50lb recurve. Any tips on a best shooting position sitting down chair level. Any help would be much appreciated, trying to start out right.thanks
For mounted archery I was told a stiffer spine is wanted like a 400 since we shoot thumb for right handed shooters and arrow is on right side of the how handle. I assume because the paradox is the arrow is already pointing off to the right a bit since we don't use an arrow shelf and the fact that we are moving on a galloping horse we want to take into account that we actually want the arrow to go left so we hit the target since we are moving off to the right (right handed shooters shoot off left side of the horae). Am I understanding this right?
i,ve been shooting for many years and i have been using howard hill tecnics and all i can say is you do a great job thanks my friend i i will recomande you and your work good job
Screw-on does not need an insert by definition. If you use a wooden shaft, the screw on can be screwed on directly on and into the wood. Preferably use a battery screwdriver.
Greg, what about Bamboo arrows or River canes? I started this year, to shoot Bamboo arrows, and in my opinion, I miss less. So do you have any experiance of bamboo arrows with a traditional Long bows?
@@TradArchery101 Thanks Greg for answers, I bought some River Canes from Ryan Gills( I have not tested them yet) need to put some adapters on them, and grind down a bit on the knuckles, but the Bamboo Arrows I bought from Todd Mathis( Khans Arrows), are really great, no matter spine or weight, they fly great and straight! It improves my shooting a lot. I live in Spain half the year, and are camping in Sweden(my home land) in the spring/summer and autumn( I love the nature, hills, mountains, and its always green, due to many rainy days. Nevermind, I do some competions in sweden, and I have after 5 years found my best arrows in Cedar wood, but everything I have learned about wooden arrows, I could forget about, when it comes to Bamboo arrows. I love the Longbow shooting, and I really enjoy all your videos on 101Archery, on Sunday I will go to the Spanish shooting club to pay the yearly fee, and the licens, its so funny, I have a small shooting range in my tiny garden here in Spain, its only 18 yards, but its enough. Thanks for your answers, I really appreciate it, and I follow your intresting movies!!!
I was about to order some carbon arrows for my new coming bow. Couldn't work out with 100% certainty the arrow length. Some manufacturers count overall length, but some count only the shaft or only the shaft and nock ( without a tip). And this is just the length without considering thickness ( diameter) or the weight of the arrows !!!! The only thing I could work out without a problem is a spine from the charts ... Feathers size also vary - and generally the smaller the better.....common bow string I heard is Dynema and not Dacron ( not sure now ).... Time, practice and experimenting will hopefully cure all the bits and peaces ....
Excellent summary! One question, you explained that too weak of an arrow is bad because all that extra bending absorbs energy and makes it less efficient. Makes sense. You also said that an arrow that's too stiff is bad, but you didn't really specify why. Do you know any of the (basic) physics behind why you shouldn't overspine?
Over spine flies sideways (it does not flex enough) and has more drag (due to larger surface area), again robbing you of energy. Can they both work? Oh yes. But if you want to maximize your equipment so it performs at its maximum potential, then you need the proper spine.
Greg, another great video on a very complicated subject for many archers. You obviously put a lot of work and effort into this one where many people on RU-vid have tried and failed. Just one question though. Doesn't draw length have an effect on choosing the correct arrow spine? A suggestion for another video would focus on he differences between a recurve and American flatbow or longbow. Those differences would be accuracy, flexibility, overall performance and durability.
Draw length does play a part because it determines the draw weight, they go hand in hand. As for the recurve / Long Bow comparison, I can't find anyone to agree on anything about them. It is just so subjective.
Incredible, great video. Can you do a video just for fletching, I heard larger fletch's straighten out the arrow faster and better for shorter distances, and smaller vanes while allow for a faster arrow but straightens out the arrow at a greater distance.
Hello, I just got a diamond prism bow 5-55 for Christmas and I have no clue what arrows to buy .. I can't see in the manual where it says about centers . do you have any clue about the arrow I would go with ? thanks
I have a Ben Pearson Colt I bought over 50 years ago 43 lbs. Ever hear of it?😜 I want to shoot a fast mini diameter carbon at near full length cause I want to learn how to gap shoot or a-fixed crawl! Would be great if point on could be 25 yards. I have always shot instinctive and killed 9 whitetail but would like to use this bow. What suggestions do you have for arrows? I’m thinking Victory VAPs. Thanks
I own five Colt's from Ben Pearson. Know the bow well. I use Gold Tip Traditional XT's, love them. I have also used Carbon Express Predator II's with them (small shaft). Have never tried the micro's, so I could not tell you anything anout them, sorry.
I have a 45 pound bow, NOT cut to center. Dead center at the top of the handle is 3/8 inch. So, if I understood you correctly I would reduce the draw weight by 15 pounds on the chart for each 1/8 inch off center for the correct spine of arrows! I am also using a dacron string! Reducing the draw weight at the chart another 5 pounds! My draw length is 26.8 inches, I short draw bringing be to roughly 26 inch draw length. Leaving me at 25 pound draw weight at the chart! I am not finding a chart that takes into consideration 25 pound draw weight. Did I understand you correctly on how much weight to drop at the chart?
For that, I usually look for an arrow for a 35 pound bow. I know the rule says for every 1/8, but I have found it easier to just do five pounds for it not being cut to center.
Hey Greg great vid. I will have to brush up on my vocab. I can't help but feel this vid has a bit to do with an arrow discussion we were involved in on the trad archery page. I will strive to refer to spine as stiff and not heavy. I have a bad habit of calling a stiff arrow as a heavy arrow . Your vid sets a great platform to move into other things that affect an arrow as well and to set up bow set up. Great vid looking forward to more. And ya the numbering of spine stiffness's is annoying specially the aluminums
I made this a while back and discussion was just happenstance. I had a big video in mind and once i started it i realized that was going to be waaaay to big.
actually after I posted I looked back at the dates on the posting and cross referenced with the calendar and realized that you posted that a few days ago. And yes any video on arrows and how they inter act with the bow could go on and on. Good job nailing down the basics.
Another question! I have a 60 pound take down center shot re-curve. Shooting the same 26 inch short draw. Actual draw weight at the 26 inches is 55 pounds. Shooting 125 grain heads. I believe my string is a fastflight string. Is the 500 spine arrow correct?
Really impressed by this video. I have a one piece recurve and only pulling 32lb, am i correct in thinking i need a 900 spine arrow with my 25" draw length. I have made some but they are only weighing 220grain. Hope someone can help.
They picked 888 grams I do not know since 900 grams is closer to 2 pounds and a round number for archery. I think at one point there was a different older measurement system that is not used anymore by some archery from some parts of Great Britain/UK that we do not use anymore so they got 888 grams when testing the weight.
Six years later, does this info still apply or have companies or charts made it easier. Not buying, just learning about something I know nothing about. So far, I know the all around best inexpensive bow to buy on Amazon. Very interesting.✌️🦁
Thank you for the Video, it's very informative, but now I'm even more lost than before. Guess I'll just have to watch this a few more times before I get the answers I'm looking for. Your calculations for Carbon fiber seemed easy to figure out. Do I apply the same logic to Wooden arrows? For instance, I have a 35Lb bow at 28 draw. But I have no rest at all, I rest my arrows on my thumb, yes I know THUMB. I'm learning to shoot eastern style. Do I subtract 5lb for every 1/8th of an inch for it not being center cut? For example, if my arrow is about 1/2 inch from center that would be -20lb ..... making my 35/40(recommended wood arrow) into a 15/20 wood arrow?
Thanks, this is interesting. I agree, the spining system is crazy - the deflection number would work for all materials. I'm not exactly a beginner, but I'm still confused. If arrow spines are measured at 28" and you leave them full length (32" on most wood shafts I think,) aren't they actually weaker than advertised? That's before you add a point, which weakens them further, right? So if you leave your arrows any longer than 28", should you buy a stiffer spine to allow for that? Also, I'm struggling to get my head around the "minus 5lbs for every 8th from centre" rule. For example I have a traditionally styled, modern bow - #47@28. The limbs are fibreglass and bamboo, and quite heavily recurved, so it shoots fast. But there is no arrow shelf - the arrow sits on my hand, half an inch from the centre of the bow, and it has a dacron string. So if I follow your rule, I calculate that my arrows need to be spined for 22lbs. That seems really weak for what the bow is, but again, if I cut them to 30" and add 100 grain points, should I start increasing that 22lbs? I don't like leaving arrows more than a couple of inches out the front at full draw - most people I have spoken to say that if you don't need the extra length, it's just dead weight which slows your arrow down a bit. I'd be interested if you have a different opinion though.
I was told and I cannot confirm this, is that the extra distance does not weaken the arrow. But I want to test it. The minus weight is for bows not cut too center, I got that from Byron Ferguson. I do not think it applies to bows with no shelf. The logic is sound though. Due to Archer's paradox, (the arrow not pointing at your target when at full draw) the arrow will need to flex to get around the riser. It really throws a wrench into what you think you should use i will say that much. I shoot a 47 pound bow with an overdraw, so it is closer to 50 pounds. I use 600 spine arrows, with a 200 grain point, that means the were still too stiff. I can easily shoot 800's out of that bow. That is not what the chart says i should use. But it is due to the cut. I have no problem with length, Howard Hill used a incredibly long arrow on his elephant hunt. I keep mine full length because I GAP shoot and that (the length of the arrow) affects the size of my GAP. Let me ask you this, your arrow is how many GPI? Most carbons are around 8 to 9. Sow that is how much more weight? It really is not enough to affect the speed of your arrow that much. The problem with starting with cut arrows is that you cannot get it back. Start full length, test it (bareshaft tune it) and then cut. Too many people just buy what they had before and cut it like the last group, which is not maximizing your equipment.
Archery 101 I would guess that the further the arrow protrudes from the bow at full draw, the weaker it is, because the point is the heaviest part, and the longer the arrow is, the more leverage it has when the arrow is loosed and starts to flex around the bow. Ok I see, that rule is for bows that aren't quite cut to centre, but as you say, maybe it also applies to bows with no shelf... again, just guessing, I would think it can't be a fixed number like 5lbs per 8th inch, maybe for a 20lb bow with no shelf, you could subtract 5lbs, for a 40lb bow you would subtract 2lbs and for a 50lb bow, 1lb per 8th inch. I'm just thinking out loud here, about the balance between a flexible enough arrow, and one that isn't going to shatter. I'm afraid I have no idea how many GPI my wooden arrows are, but I agree that the weight difference isn't a lot if they are full length. I do tend to start out with them full length, bare shaft test them, then cut them slowly down until they fly somewhere near right. For a bow from 40-50lbs with any kind of shelf, I have found that I need wooden shafts spined at 60-65lbs. It's all trial and error for me!
You are correct and I agree with you. The longer the weaker, especially when it comes to the affect of inertia. I think you are making good points on that. If it applies to bows with a shelf, why not to those with no shelf? I think you are doing it the right way. Every set of arrows I get, I start fresh, no set assumptions. I do whatever that set of arrows tell me to do.
So wait.. I’m new in archery and this videos blew my mind. I have a draw length of 28” and a #40 bow cut to center with a Dacron string. it’s okay that I’m using 400 spine carbon arrows?
Yes and he made mistake because 400 of an inch is more than 500 of an inch but the 400 arrow is stiffer ( flexes less) than 500 arrow. The imperial system really sucks ....
Since you know the answer, why are you asking? From Easton: “The arrow must be 29” in length and supported by two points, which are 28” apart. The number of inches the arrow deflects or bends X 1000 due to the weight is the spine size or measurement of an arrow. So, a 500 arrow bends . 5-inches when the weight is applied.” Have a great day
Careful, some bow limbs are not designed to handle the increased shock stresses resulting from the use of fast flight string. Be sure to research that for your bow type before switching over.
Some Arrows in the Century/Sentry system I have seen as low as 240-250 spine yes they were this not that 3rd system. The 240-250 spine are made for some brands making for the super fast arrows for bows that can't use even the 340 spine as these bows are in the low 300's of initial FPS being 320 FPS or so. Then I have see some arrows on other end in person that were 1600-1700 maybe even 1800 carbon fiber spines in 1990's a guy got them in a set of bows these carbon fiber 36 inch arrows at a big house sale where stuff was being sold before they passed away due to his condition and turns out they were made for disabled archery guy for trying to make the Paralympics where the guy needed a very light bow at 10-15 pounds and the arrows and a long draw weight for the arrows due to having to use his feet being paralyzed with use of the arm and other arm lost in accident. The original guy he got in bulk as factory second stamping/tape mess up but still usable. They person he trimmed the arrows and the person put some tips he made of a thin brad nail and 3M Mr Fix All putty on the arrow for a tip, how he got the tips all same pointy bullet shape and weight of half the grams of a 100 grain arrow is beyond me. This was to make arrows that worked better then the cheap wood or fiberglass kids arrow still being made for the under 20 pound bows so the kids could stand further back if good at aiming like my bother who was 5 or 6 to fire and not have the crap arrow go tumbling and then flying upside down with faster bows due to weight being heavier in the back then the front with fixed heads.
great info there. if my drawlength is 27inches would i cut the shaft only to 27inches then add nick n point or less than 27inches so when i add the point and nock it totals to 27inches?
Why not shoot full length? If you cut the arrow you stiffen it. Then the arrow you choose from the chart was the wrong arrow. You only cut the arrow if you have to.
Ruben I have no set preference. I start with the lowest weight and shoot a few then move up until I find the correct weight for straight flight. Everything i do depends on how the arrow flies.
Were you by any chance a gunnery instructor in the armed forces? Perhaps you should have been. Ha Ha. Excellent video, thought I knew a bit about archery but blow me down how wrong can I be. Think I will buy a gun instead.
They used to attache carve pointed rocks and tree sticks with string and shoot 100 plus yards and hit the target. Meanwhile we spend $100 on arrows and can't hit a target 20 yards away.
Everyone gives the same account for arrow tuning/flight. What they fail to mention is the extreme importance of a clean release. If you are "tweaking" the arrow during release, then no amount of bow/arrow tuning will give consistent results.......
What you need to know about arrows? Number one: Arrows are expensive. Number 2 if you shoot a damaged arrow it might have a catastrophic failure when you shoot, causing extensive damage to you and/or your bow. You should therefore inspect your arrow before loading and discard any that have a damaged shaft. 3) Use the right spine for the bow if you want the best accuracy. 4) Try not to "Robin Hood" your arrows. See Number 1, above. 5) Don't use wooden arrows with a compound bow or modern crossbow. They can shatter when shot. See number 2 above. 6) Aluminum, fiberglass, and carbon fiber arrows can be used with any type bow. 7) "Practice" arrows with replaceable points can be used for hunting, too. 8) As with everything else in life, buy the best you can afford.
A lot of you archers are under the misconception that flexing occurs because the front of the arrow is heavier than the back. This will increase the amount of flexing, but it is not exactly why flexing occurs. Any length of material will flex to one degree or another when pushed from the back regardless of taper or weight distribution. The amount of weight towards the front is proportional to the amount of flexing.
