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Why Are We Afraid of Braking in Corners, Bends or Turns? 

CanyonChasers
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Trailbraking is a technique only for the racetrack! Riders should NEVER brake in a corner. Do all your braking before the corner and then gently accelerate throughout the turn to stabilize the bike. Or maybe not?
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4 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 510   
@MSM1956
@MSM1956 Месяц назад
I was initially taught to never break in a corner. As a result, when I came in a turn too fast and ran out of lean angle. I crashed. While recuperating I discovered your channel and learned about trail breaking. After recuperating I traveled the same road and applied the trail breaking technique I learned with great success.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Sorry you crashed, but we all have a similar story, right? I'm willing to bet that corner where you fell, for the rider you are today is a mellow, boring corner.
@StewieTopless
@StewieTopless Месяц назад
This exact thing happened to me also… I forced myself to overcome that & trail braking was the safest way to brake while cornering to guarantee I’ve properly adjusted my speed
@eugeniustheodidactus8890
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 Месяц назад
Also looking good through the cones on your Road King.... nice.
@crash86ed
@crash86ed Месяц назад
brake not break
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
@@crash86ed Autocorrect is terrible. In the auto-captioning files I have to chase down every "Brake/Break" and every "Writer/Rider". It's exhausting and I know I miss them all the time.
@marksmallman4572
@marksmallman4572 Месяц назад
I have been trial braking for over 45 years, zero throttle, gentle one finger pressure to compress the suspension slightly to push the tyre into the tarmac, never had a problem, still upright!
@davidcolin6519
@davidcolin6519 Месяц назад
I've been riding a similar amount of time. I was taught never to brake in a corner, but that was with those godawful tyres of the 70s. Even as early as the early 80s, tyre technology and compounds had improved so much that braking all the way to the apex could be considered under good conditions, but it wasn't something I would do in the pretty habitual rainy, potholed and slimy conditions in the UK. Modern riders have no idea of how good modern tyres are.
@aluisious
@aluisious Месяц назад
Sounds like a successful trial, you can start doing it as a regular thing now.
@williamdabbs1075
@williamdabbs1075 Месяц назад
Nice one.
@Ukmongoose3
@Ukmongoose3 Месяц назад
@@aluisioushahahahahahaha I get this
@vicinvesta8349
@vicinvesta8349 16 дней назад
On my bike if I rolled off the throttle with clutch in I would stop almost on a dime unless I am like in 6th gear.
@mitchrichardson744
@mitchrichardson744 Месяц назад
"Don't be afraid of corners, be afraid of doing something abrupt in corners!" I had a big accident on track in 2018. Just about lost my foot. I became really slow after that. I was terrified of corners for like 3 years. Focusing my fear on being abrupt, instead of generically on the corner made all the difference for me. I'm fast again. I'm safer and corners are fun again. Thanks Dave!
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
I love it! And you are indeed fast again!
@jace2wheel762
@jace2wheel762 Месяц назад
Where they filmed the coyote and roadrunner cartoons eh? 😂😂😂
@franko8572
@franko8572 Месяц назад
00:20
@Nick-Gye
@Nick-Gye Месяц назад
Literally
@Roll_and_Rock
@Roll_and_Rock Месяц назад
For years, I rode where my right hand was either gripping the throttle or gripping the front brake. This meant having to reposition my fingers between these two, reducing my response time. It was either throttle or brake, with a gap of time as my hand changed grip. When I learned to trail break, I first needed to learn how to have two fingers over the brake while also gripping the throttle. Street riders are never taught this technique but it has dramatically changed my riding for the better. The transition from rolling off the throttle to braking is so much smoother and allows more nuanced control. Thank you for the great video, I'd love to see one that is on this grip technique.
@rockettman2025
@rockettman2025 Месяц назад
I was riding with a friend and his son recently. I ride a goldwing, they both were on FJRs. The son mentioned he had trouble understanding why I was braking for every corner but he was having trouble keeping up. I laughed and sent him one of your videos. He now gets it.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Love it!
@eugeniustheodidactus8890
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 Месяц назад
"Use more brakes to ride faster...."
@beepbop6697
@beepbop6697 Месяц назад
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="417">6:57</a> I love that tire grip loading demonstration. It explains the concept perfectly. Stay smooth on the brakes!
@Wolfox360
@Wolfox360 Месяц назад
The problem is that on normal roads the hit can come from the opposite side. If you hard turn in to corners, you are stiffening your suspensions, now you get a hole or a crack on the road, suspension can't copy the surface, there comes the hit and loose grip.
@andrewmorgan81
@andrewmorgan81 Месяц назад
Never used to call it trail braking it was just how you rode. Fascinating to see how much attention it gets today. Great video please keep it up!
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Right. I kinda wish it didn't have a name. The concept in itself is the most intuivite thing in the world.
@colinnicols5387
@colinnicols5387 Месяц назад
Ya, good riding used to be so natural. Now, seems you have to read 12 books and watch 52 videos to just get out the driveway. That said, with the power and speed capabilities and all the track hype these days, i can see how a bit more coaching could be a good thing. But it still comes down to the mindset of the rider.
@michaelsupple6081
@michaelsupple6081 Месяц назад
You got me trail braking several years ago and I consider it one of the most helpful skills I've learned. I use it on every ride and I am shocked at the resistance I receive when I bring up the subject. It's saved my bacon a few times when turns have been sharper than I thought, simply by gently applying a bit more brake pressure while already trail braking.. Thanks so much.
@Cake...
@Cake... Месяц назад
Best description of trailbraking I've heard so far. All the other videos I've watched are just too confusing, but this video pares it down to its fundamental structure. Thanks so much for posting.
@smiller787
@smiller787 Месяц назад
I constantly trail brake….been doing it for decades. The only thing you need to remember while taking corners at the maximum safe speed, is eyes on where you want to go, and no abrupt anything, braking, getting off the gas, getting on the gas, cranking the bike aggressively into a corner. Riding at an elevated speed is a wisdom thing, and a lesson on being patient and pick your spots. I prefer not to ride in groups, for the simple reason, that others around, take your level of concentration down, and it adds variables to safe riding. Having said that, a couple of experienced riders. Who have wisdom can enhance a ride. The advice given here is solid, and really nothing to add. The sport of riding should always involve everyone getting home safely, and there is nothing like experience, and a lifelong interest in learning just how to make the bike do what you want it to do.
@Szlejer
@Szlejer Месяц назад
There is nothing dangerous in trail beaking on the road, it's the safest way to corner...
@beepbop6697
@beepbop6697 Месяц назад
...my bike turns fine without using the brakes. ;) I do trail brake if I find myself entering a corner too hot.
@chriscorkas
@chriscorkas Месяц назад
Exactly, it is an option if needed or wanted to do. I spent a few months exercising trail braking (and I really like it) in nearly every corner. So my front tire ended up “v” shaped very fast. Nice skill to have but not for every corner.
@kwakithailand
@kwakithailand Месяц назад
​@@chriscorkasrear wheel trail braking is possible?
@langhamp8912
@langhamp8912 Месяц назад
@@kwakithailand I've wondered about that; I use the rear brake consistently when not trail braking but don't touch the rear brake at all when trail braking. Dunno if that's right, but I've had sideways skids from very light trail braking.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
@@kwakithailand Yes, we can trail brake with the rear brake. It's possible. It works, but the front brake works better. It's not _just_ about slowing down, its also about controlling the bikes geometry, the front tire contact patch, etc.
@Bill0167
@Bill0167 Месяц назад
Trail breaking is a valid technique. I was trained on this technique when I attended police motor training. Great video!
@sleemanman9188
@sleemanman9188 Месяц назад
Very well explained... thanks. As a newbie in the world of motorcycles (been riding for only 2 months now), i keep my speed down in all corners so that i don't need/have to trail brake. As a former truck driver for over 20 years, i learned to reduce speeds and to anticipate potential problems and this is helping me as a new rider out there. One thing i do as a rider is what i had to do as a truck driver : respect the suggested yellow speed limit signs before corners. As i'm gaining experience, i can take some corners a little faster than before. Example : the yellow speed limit sign says 75km in a 90km zone (i'm in Canada - km not miles), i now know i can take it at 80km or 85km as 2 months ago, i would slow down to 75km. But i only take some corners faster... those that i know. Whenever i ride on a new road, i still respect the yellow speed limit signs. Better safe than sorry !! :)
@izzysykopth
@izzysykopth 18 дней назад
@@sleemanman9188 I can usually double and add 10 mph to the yellow suggested speed sign but only on rare occasions and NEVER in blind turns…visibility and being able to stop within the distance you can see is crucial to safety be careful about increasing speed beyond the yellow sign in blind corners…sometimes the suggested speed would be too fast if there is an obstacle in the road such as a break down or accident or the idiot hanging a u turn…
@nathanyt
@nathanyt Месяц назад
They think it's an "advanced technique" because they see professional racers use it. When in reality, we are taught to be smooth with our controls which really what trail braking is.
@gary6449
@gary6449 Месяц назад
I've been riding for ~55yrs - both on and OFF road.. this guy knows his stuff !
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Thank you!
@nathanwalters7790
@nathanwalters7790 Месяц назад
In a sea of confusing conversation about trail breaking this was the most clear and relatable. Thanks.
@FlesHBoX
@FlesHBoX Месяц назад
Man you really nailed it with the "then we were required to tell all of these new riders to ignore a lifetime of driving and bicycling experience..." My MSF course almost ruined riding for me. I've had to combat that msf course and remind myself that "I already know how to do this" from all those years of riding a bicycle. The only real difference is the speed and weight of the bike...
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Exactly right. The argument has often been "you can't teach this to a new rider" - You've been doing this your entire life. Slowing into corners is the most intuitive thing in the world.
@mrbookends
@mrbookends Месяц назад
Another great video! I'll add this: I don't think a lot of people understand just how much engine braking plays into their deceleration until they pop into a false neutral and have a near-heart attack at their entry speed..... speaking from experience, of course 😅
@langhamp8912
@langhamp8912 Месяц назад
The converse is also true; I rode 2-stroke street bikes and scooters for years before getting my first 4-stroke bike, and was disturbed by how much engine braking there is. I currently have a Yamaha XSR900 which does NOT have user settings for engine braking, but the newer MT09 does. I can see myself cranking that engine braking figure all the way down.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
@@langhamp8912 I was listening to the Oxley Bom podcast and they were saying the best MotoGP racers come up riding two-strokes because it teaches them so much more about how to work within the physics of how motorcycles turn and whatnot. Like you, I tend to turn-down my engine braking, and it's amazing when a rider is struggling with a corner, getting them to enter it a gear (sometimes two) higher than they were and they find the corner to smoother, more controlled, etc. Engine braking is kinda like dragging a little bit of rear brake. A little bit is great, a whole lot can be unsettling.
@mariomanus3176
@mariomanus3176 Месяц назад
@CanyonChasers after watching a lot of RU-vid videos on 'trail braking', most vloggers seem to agree that the principles of trail braking are (1)to load the front tire for more grip and (2)it may decrease the distance between the front and rear tires improving the cornering capability of the bike (forgot the better term for it). Basing from this, i practiced and applied these principles to every cornering i made at almost all moving speeds when not contraindicated and found out that the improvement in ease and control during cornering is applicable to any speed in my daily city commute making me wonder why this was not taught at all as a basic riding skill.
@guitarmike4ever
@guitarmike4ever Месяц назад
Excellent advice. One thing I wish more coaches would teach is covering the front brake at all times with 1 or 2 fingers - thank you Andy! It only took me a week to get used to after 30+ years and > 250K miles of road riding. That ~250-500ms of reaction time has saved me from sketchy situations multiple times on the road since. Bought ChampU and so many safety techniques transfer from the track to the road it blew my mind. I use trail-braking, 100 pts of grip, load tire before working it, body position, etc. on the road nearly every day. No where near the levels on the track but that application of safe-modulation, situational awareness and prep on corner sequence is muscle memory now. Keep up the fantastic content! 👍
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Absolutely right!
@eugeniustheodidactus8890
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 Месяц назад
The more I ride and the older I get.... ( 68 ) the more I cover my levers. It's hardly ever the ROAD that concerns me. It's the other drivers especially in 35-45 mph zones !
@redrebel2978
@redrebel2978 Месяц назад
Late apex, Slow in, Fast out, access the corner way before getting to it and use maintenance throttle once into the corner to stabilise the bike, l like you explanation of trail braking it really makes sense.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
We don't need to be on the throttle to stabilize the bike. Is your bike unstable on the brakes? If it is, you need to get something checked out.
@tommeyer6033
@tommeyer6033 Месяц назад
A perfect refresher course! You’re still the best riding instructor on RU-vid, Dave. Make more vids, please. Also, where is the Moar Coast? Good riding there? Nice beaches? 😉
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Great point. Coastal riding is fantastic!
@leberkas_adv
@leberkas_adv Месяц назад
what a great video! "never break in the corner" is the same bs like "hands off the front brake in situation xy"! the front brake is the most important brake in mostly every situation (even offroad!) and this bs myths only exist because instructors want to prevent beginners from hammering into the front break. instead, they should teach the right usage of the front break right from the beginning!
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
From your keyboard to gods ears!
@eugeniustheodidactus8890
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 Месяц назад
instructors' dilemma... CYA !
@Wolfox360
@Wolfox360 Месяц назад
Front brakes and shifting, but in the video he's not saying to not brake in corners, is mostly like , be in the correct speed for the corner, by braking earlier.
@garrysimmons111
@garrysimmons111 Месяц назад
I just finished a YCRS ChampSchool at NJMP and it's heavy on trail braking / progressive control inputs. Great stuff. Back home, riding hundreds of miles of twisties a day, I realized how few corners require any braking (beside engine braking on my big KTM V-twin). Unless I'm confronted with a 15 or 20 MPH hairpin, rolling off the throttle is all the braking I need because I didn't pin the throttle on the previous corner exit. Roll on. Roll off. Repeat. FWIW, I'm rolling along 10 to 20 over the speed limit (65 - 75 ish) and at least doubling the suggested corner speeds, so I'm not dawdling. Trail brake when needed, but the fingers are always covering the lever (just in case). If you ride public roads like a track day, that's different. But I ride "The Pace (2.0)" and it's just another tool in the toolbox. Apply when needed.
@WJRobbins125
@WJRobbins125 Месяц назад
Totally unrelated...man those cattle grates/guards in UT were not what I was expecting...nor cattle just out roaming around. :) But man, was the scenery gorgeous!
@cesaralejandrohernandez4840
@cesaralejandrohernandez4840 Месяц назад
I'm a new rider (less than a year) and was about to go wide in a corner the first time I went in faster than usual. Breaking gently in the turn saved me from an accident.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Yes! Thats great to hear! Crashing sucks!
@eugeniustheodidactus8890
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 Месяц назад
BINGO! I started using trailbraking in my first year of riding and it contributes massively to safety and enjoyment. Glad you are OK and learning!
@Tracer9GTRider8
@Tracer9GTRider8 Месяц назад
"You come around a corner and there's a car driving slowly" voiceover of video of a dude on a Goldwing waving you past. 😂😂😂
@elgringoec
@elgringoec Месяц назад
My friend rides a goldwing; it's very unlikely you'd ever come up behind him much less be able to get by.
@Anderzander
@Anderzander Месяц назад
Great video - as always. A lot of my corners go like this though: 1. Roll off the throttle 2. Reach to the front brake 3. Sneak/Squeeze the front brake 4. Feel the weight transfer 5. Realise I’ve over slowed as a kid on a push bike nearly runs into the back of me. 6. Have to get back onto a neutral throttle to go through the corner 7. Think CanyonChasers would be so disappointed in me. 8. Repeat on the next corner. Rolling off the throttle completely, and loading the front, I think only works if you are going into the corner faster than you are in fact comfortable travelling through it at ..
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Haha! Overslowing is usually caused by one of two things. One. Not looking far enough into the corner, so you just slow earlier because less visual information Or 2, which seems to be more common, being in too low of a gear. Try practicing with a corner where you enter at the same speed, but stay a gear or sometimes two higher (use your best judgement of course) and see how it feels. Most riders discover that being a gear or so higher, the corner is smoother, easier, and more precise and you'll still be in the correct gear for the exit.
@mildyproductive9726
@mildyproductive9726 Месяц назад
4.5 Turn in way too early Now you'll find trail braking useful, and you'll know why so many riders do it. Even when they take corners slower than you. They turn in too early. Since you don't have that problem, you don't find it useful.
@izzysykopth
@izzysykopth Месяц назад
@@CanyonChasers /\/\BOOM/\/\ I’ve found while applying maintenance or slightly positive throttle in a higher gear the rpms tend to climb gradually anyway (I try to use throttle to stand the bike up while I stay low) which tends to leave me in the correct gear by the time I exit…
@bubbleone6526
@bubbleone6526 Месяц назад
Smooth and steady. I really never realized what I’ve done for years was called trail breaking.
@hyeGUY25
@hyeGUY25 Месяц назад
I was a nervous wreck new rider fresh out of msf and parking lots. I was great at slow speed stuff even better than my cousin who had been riding for 6 years, but on the streets going fast just wasn't something I was comfortable with. I signed up for champs school at Laguna Seca and took my rs660. Great experience, met a lot of nice people and was a very. fun and exciting 2 day course. I came out of that class maybe 5-10 times better rider. I am now the safer faster cousin rider, he still refuses to go to school or listen to any advice probably why we just high sided at willow springs. Trail braking completely changed my riding style, always having the front brake lever covered with my 2 fingers pointed and ready to go on the brakes has made me a very confident rider. Learn how to brake to be able to go fast!
@pacobanshee5265
@pacobanshee5265 Месяц назад
Smooth and soft = Enjoy the ride!! Pure gold man, thanx for the very good lesson!! 🤘🏻👽
@educaracas726
@educaracas726 Месяц назад
Awesome video. The suspension shot after the tyre behaviour explanation closes the case. Thank you!
@karlbishop7481
@karlbishop7481 Месяц назад
When I first started driving I was self taught mainly at first blasting around an empty field in an old beater and later with oversight by my father. After I got my license a friend who had done the driver's training in school was riding with me, when I applied the brakes in a corner he had a fit. He told me in school he had been taught to never use the brakes in a corner. I continued to use the brakes in a corner all be it carefully. When I started to ride a motorcycle cycle a couple of years I continued the practice and still do it to this day. I didn't know there was a term for it until recently. Excellent video as usual.
@dougfreeman3229
@dougfreeman3229 Месяц назад
The concept you are missing is "turn-in point", which differs greatly depending on the corner. It's the point where the apex and exit can be identified, and the rider commits to the lean angle to steer through the corner, in one steering motion (theoretically one). An initial slighter lean is needed until the rider can see through the corner - this is where braking to set speed is done. In a DRB (decreasing radius bastard) that point is late into the corner. Speed should be set prior to turn-in initiation, brakes released prior to turn-in, and throttle applied after the bike is at the desired lean angle. Therefor, the throttle is NOT used to accelerate all the way through the corner. It is used after commitment to turn-in. The term "acceleration" is used lightly in the context as well. Initially only enough to take up driveline lash and settle the suspension, and gradually rolled on as the circumstance allows. Keith Code covered it well in 1993 with "twist of the Wrist ll", and years later commented to trail brake only when it's required.
@soujrnr
@soujrnr Месяц назад
I always brake in corners if need be, and I always use trailbraking on public roads. It just makes sense on both counts. Those who think it's for a racetrack only don't have a clue what they're talking about, and obviously don't understand trailbraking. The key, as you said, is not to do so abruptly. I really love the "early, lighter, and longer" for brake usage. This is something that should be taught at the beginning in the MSF BRC classes, in my humble estimation. As always, Dave, you hit it out of the park with this phenomenal video! You're my hero of the riding world. I just told my wife that I wish I could spend like three months every single day with you and have you teach me. I've been riding a lot of years, but I'm never too proud to learn or recognize the incredible skills and knowledge of others, and you are at the top of the list, sir. I am riding a new Gold Wing and I trail brake every time I ride, but I'd love to have that close up and personal instruction where what I do can be seen and analyzed. Thing is, the nuances and handling characteristics of my new ride are much different than my old Suzuki Boulevard C90T cruiser, so I almost feel like a first-week MSF BRC rider again. LOL Anyway, thanks again for sharing your wisdom! I ALWAYS come away knowing more and also being challenged to get better as a rider! Ride safe, ride well, and ride often!!
@izzysykopth
@izzysykopth Месяц назад
@@soujrnr we’re all still learning…
@soujrnr
@soujrnr Месяц назад
@@izzysykopth For sure! And we should never stop learning! Ride safe!
@izzysykopth
@izzysykopth 23 дня назад
@@soujrnr I believe once you think you know it all you’ve failed…
@soujrnr
@soujrnr 22 дня назад
@@izzysykopth So very true.
@izzysykopth
@izzysykopth 22 дня назад
@@soujrnr I’m jealous (not in a green eyed monster kinda way 🤣) of that new Gold Wing. I’ll be 62 in December and I haven’t given up sport bikes yet but if and when I do I won’t be riding a Harley. Gold Wing all the way…
@christopherabram7087
@christopherabram7087 Месяц назад
Good words bud! 35 years for me and I told my kids and friends to read the corner and push the grip gently and feel the corner.
@catmate8358
@catmate8358 Месяц назад
If traveling at legal speeds most often you will not need to use brakes in a corner at all. This assumes reducing your speed to legal limit before the corner. If there's an obstacle in the corner it is of course a different story and the reason why you should never open the throttle before you see the exit of the corner. When it comes to oil spills or ice and such on the road, the safest thing to do is to sit home and watch youtube rather then ride 😁 Good video, thank you.
@mildyproductive9726
@mildyproductive9726 Месяц назад
That's because you take good lines. If you take good lines, you don't usually benefit from braking into a corner, even at more than double the speed limit. But go back to the speed limit and turn in too early. Now you have to brake into the corner to make it safely. If you routinely trail brake in street riding, it's mostly likely because you turn in too early.
@TheFirstCause
@TheFirstCause Месяц назад
Those coyote and roadrunner cartoons... WERE FILMED IN THE REAL WORLD?!?! Amazing! EDIT: Also... great video and subbed!
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Thanks for the sub! Welcome along for the ride!
@diyeveryday67
@diyeveryday67 Месяц назад
Great video! I just made a trip from LV to Utah to ride these rides on Father’s Day! They are FANTASTIC roads and I cannot wait to get back to them!!
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
That is awesome!
@Dogatemyhomework927
@Dogatemyhomework927 22 дня назад
Your channel is one of the most underrated channels on RU-vid… Thanks for all your hard work!💯👍🏽
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers 22 дня назад
I appreciate that! Thank you!
@Ron-kn1fg
@Ron-kn1fg Месяц назад
You are correct saying we trail brake already. We trailbrake coming to a red light. we see a red, we apply the brakes smoothly and ease off until we come to a stop under control. This is done without thinking about it, trailbraking for a corner is the same technique, ease on the brakes, then ease off the brakes as needed to keep the motorcycle under control and not go wide.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Well said!
@OldManEnduro
@OldManEnduro Месяц назад
It amazes me how many riders dont know about counter steering or trail braking. On a side note, ive ridden both of those roads numerous times. Hurricane, UT to Torrey, UT. Theyre awsome rides, but im back in Oregon now and there are some of the best roads in the country here... hidden gems. Love your content, every rider should be subscribed!!
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
I agree. Oregon has the best riding I know of in the lower 48 and Canadia!
@AZGeek520
@AZGeek520 Месяц назад
Good stuff, Dave. While not the ideal way to learn about front braking, I was on a trip in Mexico when my rear brake failed and all I had was the front. I quickly found out that it wasn't the scary, "never do" scenario that had been drilled into me in my MSF course years ago. I've since have put front braking into my riding technique in the public road twisties. Your asterisk on "abruptly" is key. Thank you for that emphasis. You picked some great roads for this video. UT 72 and UT 12 are fantastic roads, with UT 72 being much less traveled (and with less deer than I've experienced on that aspen section of UT 12 between Boulder and Torrey).
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
I love it! The black cows on 12 totally keep you on your toes!
@AZGeek520
@AZGeek520 Месяц назад
@@CanyonChasers And the same goes tor the ones on 72. Plus you can add cow pies to the list of road hazards when braking in a corner. 😂
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
@@AZGeek520 The ultimate "slippery thing" in a corner right!
@I_am_archie
@I_am_archie Месяц назад
Thanks. I've been working on this with my Vision for a while now. After watching one of your previous vids about trail braking.
@gerrycout7845
@gerrycout7845 Месяц назад
I agree 100%. And I am really surprised that after 35 years of riding (and not watching much RU-vid until recently) I have learnt these techniques by myself. No classes attended. Like you said, it’s basic common sense. You slow down to turn. Same as a car. More finesse at the controls. I do use the rear brake at the same time as I find it calms the bike down but you are right in saying the rear traction is limited when braking with the front. The problem with all of this when it comes to beginners (my girlfriend started riding last year) is to make them understand that they have to be gentle with the controls. I rode in the winter up north on ice on a river when I was young. 2 wheels. No studs. Just rubber. 5 winters. You learn how to be smooth with the controls. Beginners don’t have that chance to learn what slipping and sliding feels like. You have to listen to what your front tire is trying to tell you. Feel is the name of the game. Hard to explain to someone just starting. Stay safe out there.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Right. The concept is actually extremely intuitive. It's a tragedy that so many new rider programs teach it's "dangerous"
@davidyaroch6622
@davidyaroch6622 Месяц назад
I learned years ago from Twist of the Wrist to essentially break the corner into 3 parts. The first is the slowing down, trail braking until my fork compression from braking matches the needed compression from cornering Part 2 is to catch the throttle and wait for the clear exit path. Part 3 is rolling on throttle to give me the acceleration I want. I found that this strategy even works in cars.
@jsprite123
@jsprite123 Месяц назад
The motorcycling community needs to plead with the government (or whatever organization oversees it) to have the MSF courses drop its last-century, antiquated thinking that "it is too complicated for new riders" and teach trailbraking as the proper (and possibly life-saving) way to take a corner. New riders can learn this technique if taught as a standard, normal procedure that is just part of the course.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
The state of Washington has two new rider programs running side by side. One is the old program. One is a new program that is teaching trail braking to brand new riders. You can probably guess which one is having better outcomes, but as more data comes out, I hope this becomes a big factor in getting new rider programs to move into the current century.
@MrVinceq
@MrVinceq Месяц назад
Great job of removing the woo woo from trail braking and encouraging commonsense use of front brakes to stay safe in corners. Simple, straightforward and confidence inspiring.
@chrisdowney9888
@chrisdowney9888 Месяц назад
You explained this so well I've been riding just like this for over 45 years. People are afraid to use the front brake when cornering for fear of it sliding out but if loaded up when entering corner then pressure relieved and controlled with slight steady pressure you are better prepared for the unexpected variables when riding on unridden roads. plenty of time to power on when you can see where your going safely.
@wrkings
@wrkings Месяц назад
Great video mate, makes so much sense, when I first got my license, instructors told us never brake in a corner, but in actual fact they should have told us don't brake abruptly in corner, thx
@TheZaxx
@TheZaxx Месяц назад
Great video. I have come to these same conclusions after years of riding, and having been taught not to brake in corners.
@supresto8214
@supresto8214 Месяц назад
I love your teaching style and how you take the time to make “complicated topics” easy to understand and remember. Never brake (abruptly) in corners is genius 👏👏👏
@jamescampolo7824
@jamescampolo7824 5 дней назад
Speaking of slippery corners. One time I was riding in Northern Colorado in a Natl. Forest on a windy road in the rain. I was being cautious as I went around a curve and there was a pile of cow stuff in the road. My rear tire slipped out some but I regained control and when I looked up, there was a cow napping in the road. Good thing I was going slow enough. If I would have even touched my front brake I would have gone down. I never use my front brake in the rain on a curvy road.
@draganpetrovic1991
@draganpetrovic1991 Месяц назад
In a last case (really last!), it is possible to straighten the bike in a corner and brake as hard as possible (as much as there is places), then release the brakes and drop the engine through the rest of the corner. Twice in my driving career I saved myself from a crash/death that way, but I've been driving for 50 years, so it's only done when there's no other solution.
@Peter-Alexander
@Peter-Alexander Месяц назад
Thanks for this, I was wondering what the best technique would be if something unexpected happens in a corner. Have had a bike when I was 20 to 30 yrs old am 61 now and bought a bike recently.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Most every motorcycle answer starts with "It depends." So, yes, you can, but thats an pretty hard, technical, and unforgiving move. If you have the grip or have no other option then yeah. For example, I had to do that move at a recent track day where a rider came up underneath me in a corner to make a pass, but couldn't make it stick and started running wide. I had no place to go as he was blocking my turn, so my only option was to straighten and hammer the brakes. But because I was going much faster than 18mph, I promptly went off track. Because I was upright I was able to save it. But that was an extreme and rare case. I think that may be only the second time I've used it in well over 30 years of riding.
@draganpetrovic1991
@draganpetrovic1991 Месяц назад
@@CanyonChasers That it should be used only when there is a situation where we have another way out, in 50 years, I only used it two times, but it probably saved my life twice. You should know that it can, but only a good experienced rider who will judge when to stop braking and "knock down" the motorcycle again. I once had to do it twice and it worked - I was left with a thrown bike leg when they didn't have an engine lock button on it, a long left curve about 120km/h, and a precipice of 200m on the right side. I braked hard, then hit the foot again and finally stopped on the edge of the precipice meybe 0,5-1,0m . Road around Adriatik sea 1980 year. Sorry for bad english.
@backyardrenegade7158
@backyardrenegade7158 Месяц назад
I find my entry speed based on what I can see, then drive through the corner from there. I find my entry speed, drag the brake and increase the throttle a bit to hold it while the front end is loaded before I enter the corner. I drive through the corner using the brake to adjust my speed and rarely move the throttle until I am releasing the brake and exiting the corner... I guess you think that's wrong but since bringing that off road technique to the street, I have not once overrun a corner and am a lot more confident with my bike. NOTE, sounds to me like CC doesn't endorse this full time braking in corners, readers and followers of CC should take his credentials and experience into consideration and probably stick to his recommended variation of the technique.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Right, there are some programs that endorse this. It's called "pressure braking" or "brottle" But, it's not just me who warns against it. All the top riding programs and top racers are against it. In fact, the idea first came about when someone misquoted Freeddy Spencer in their book. Freddy was talking about overlapping throttle and rear brake to control wheelspin and wheelies on 500GP two stroke race bikes. But because it was published - here we are. Freddy, as well as Sylvain Guintoli, Scott Russel and many others have said over and over again that we should NEVER overlap throttle and front brake. You can find many of these video's on RU-vid. We can get away with overlapping front brake and throttle at slower speeds and/or when we have good grip, but outside of ideal conditions it quickly falls apart. The throttle is telling the bike to accelerate and go straight. The front brake is telling the bike to slow down and turn. Putting these two forces against each other puts the bike in a state of imbalance where it doesn't want to do either. It's the cause of a lot of crashes in racing and track days when riders accidentially overlap throttle and front brake and because the bike doesn't want to slow down or turn, they end up crashing. Now, if you are talking about overlapping throttle and rear brake, thats a totally different thing. But I would STRONGLY encourage you to abandon overlapping with front brake. We really only want to invest in techniques that work when the speed is up or the grip is down, when things matter most, not just when conditions are ideal.
@backyardrenegade7158
@backyardrenegade7158 Месяц назад
@@CanyonChasers Wow, this is gonna' be a task, trying to erase years of training myself to drive through corners with the front end dipped and the rear wheel pushing to decrease rake, length of bike, and help with the turning radius. We used this technique in motocross for years and I naturally brought it to the street. Not at first only after I over drove a couple of corners, something I have not done since transferring the technique to my Road King. I guess I am still trying to make excuses but I will surrender to your background and experience and try to change. I guess I am gonna' have to go back and watch the vid a few times then go out and see what happens. Since a life of racing I continually train when I am driving two or four wheels for that matter and have thousands of miles dedicated to the old ways, this is gonna' be a task. Willing to learn though, example, after 50 years of riding in shorts and sheaks, I finally armored up this year and didn't have to crash to make the decision. lol. Thanks for the guidance, see your vids soon...
@Dogatemyhomework927
@Dogatemyhomework927 Месяц назад
Fine tuning methods! Thank you so much!🤙🏽🤙🏽💯
@petepeterson8420
@petepeterson8420 Месяц назад
I started riding as a teen back in the last 60's, quit when I turned 50 and then bought an adventure bike after a 20 year break. All my buddies were "you gotta learn how to trail brake"??? What? In all these years I've ridden street, dirt, quad, cafe, three wheelers, early sport bikes and old brit thumpers. And lately Ive gotten into side by sides and casual 4 wheeling. I raced for 1 season on my CR500 in the desert. The problem with trail braking is not only the definition but the wild mix of differing techniques across all the bikes we all ride. I'll go faster in the corner and use the rear wheel to turn the bike in dirt, and have even used that at high speed on dirt to save my life, literally. Using the front brake on downhills was not what I was learned as a teen and it took me a while to relearn that habit. So when a street rider gives me advice I have to consciously think about his experiences and blend what I know with what he's saying Of course it's been 45+ years since I rode my 750 Norton so my tarmac canyon carving was on old tech tires and drum front brakes and those experiences slow me down on todays road bikes. I guess what I'm actually saying is advice from other riders needs to be taken with caution as you might not know his level or type of experience which forms his opinion. I read about braking in a real paper magazine 30+ yrs ago and I still use this when I am not rushed or panicked, just play with this cornering technique, and on several corners with steeply decreasing radius, it's worked. Go into the corner, roll off throttle, lightly grab front brake then lightly drag rear brake while gently using more throttle. As you gain experience you can increase control pressures. This loads the front tire even more than normal trail braking and stiffens all the bikes suspension, front and rear and the bike can corner at higher speeds or turn in sharper. Of course this came from a professional sport bike racer for use on the track. So, should I use the experience gained from an experienced winning racer? Probably not on the street or the dirt for that matter. But, knowing and playing with this technique very lightly has given me another tool. Please remember this advice, advice is worth what you paid for it....
@MD-MC
@MD-MC 21 день назад
Always great advice. No doubt, you've saved many individuals from disastrous riding issues. Thanks for caring!
@JoeGoeMotorcycleAdventures
@JoeGoeMotorcycleAdventures Месяц назад
This has completely transformed the way I ride. Going through the twisties has become even more enjoyable. Let’s be honest, at some point we all have been nervous riding on super twisty roads. Trail braking has put the fun back into it! Great video brother. Taking champ street in August!
@gregorysteffensen3279
@gregorysteffensen3279 Месяц назад
The big debate I've ever seen with trail braking is less whether it works (universal favor in my circles), and more where the etymology comes from. I was taught that it's because loading and tightening up the front suspension trims the front geometry, including the trail, in order to make for more precise steering input, rather than anything to do with "trailing on/off" the brake
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
It's a great question. Trailing off brake pressure vs. Reducing Trail. I kinda' wish it didn't have a name because we get "drag the trailing brake" "only on dirt trails" It's not an intuitive term.
@dutch_martyr
@dutch_martyr Месяц назад
New rider of 8 months here and I've been consuming your content with glee. Love these trail braking and "anti" going wide videos! Please keep them coming! Not enough people can articulate the how to drive a motorcycle adeptly!
@InterimExec
@InterimExec Месяц назад
Always be selective to who you listen to
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Thank you. Running wide is not fun. Precision and control sure is, though!
@bradcobb3418
@bradcobb3418 8 дней назад
good info, here in southern Spain the country roads can get very polished after 6-8 mths with no rain, in hairpins I gently trail brake and if any hazards like oil slicks or tar snakes i may reduce fronk brake and apply slightly more rear, but on my old 916 ST the 320mm front brakes are very linear and powerfull, whereas the single 245mm rear is nearly an ornament, plus Battleaxe S22 tyres have amazing grip as i do not have ABS ( nore do i want it)😂😂
@unwrangler11
@unwrangler11 Месяц назад
You have lots of good solid advice, thanks.
@_johnm
@_johnm Месяц назад
Your best video! Great coverage of the myriad arguments, sayings, and outright insanity that people on all sides spout on this topic. Now we have something to confidently send to people. Thanks!
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Thank you!
@13_Cowboy
@13_Cowboy Месяц назад
I’m from Switzerland. People who say ‘never brake in a corner’ must be from places with straight, flat roads. Full-braking-before-tipin is trained and tested here, but in practice I believe trail braking is much better.
@charlesstoddard736
@charlesstoddard736 Месяц назад
Hello from Newfoundland. Before I heard practice than implemented trail braking I don't know how safe and in control I was !!!! It has changed and improved my riding ten folds easy the best tool I got throughout reading and taking advice from different outlets in my 25 years riding career . Try it implement it right and reap the rewards. Chuck
@google-zoo
@google-zoo Месяц назад
Interesting and makes complete sense. I remember as a child flying down hills on my pedal bike enjoying the speed whilst gently squeezing the front brake into the bends and we never came off ! Surely a motorbike is the same …
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Right!?!
@orionswitness
@orionswitness Месяц назад
Mindfulness when riding is an amazing thing. Feeling the road…feeling the front tyre contacting the road surface, feeling the road surface. That’s how you know become one with your bike .
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Those moments of flow state are amazing.
@kimellis8340
@kimellis8340 Месяц назад
As a biker with over 51 years riding experience and averaging over 330 days, a year on motorcycles, I-grade the presenter, a 95 out of 100. The only thing I add is that my bike weighs 800 pounds and I weigh 250 pounds and I have my rear brake lightly mimic my front brake action in fast curves. I feel this planes me out and anchors me once again thank you for the outstanding presentation.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
You sir, are exactly on point! Yes, bigger, heavier, longer, lower bikes, the rear brake is much more useful because there is less weight shift to the front wheel.
@normandlariviere8957
@normandlariviere8957 Месяц назад
1.28 in , I brake in corners . I downshift in corners , the worse that happens if I don t match rev enough the ass end kicks out a bit , and its fun. As a kid I rode my bmx in the canadian winter , it was a blast.
@jeffestrada6857
@jeffestrada6857 Месяц назад
Your still the best on RU-vid explaining CLEARLY what good motorcycle techniques really are. There are so many variations of the meaning of trail braking from the other “RU-vid experts” For instance Motojitsu makes everything so complicated in his explanations that it makes the relatively easy and simple skills on motorcycles so complex. Your simple explanation s are so much more easier to understand and without the “ego” other RU-vid “experts” try to portray. Another example on other channels are explanations on cornering - making an easy skill sound So Hard. It must make new riders feel so inadequate. Even I that have been riding my whole life find the explanations so complex and hard to understand. Thank you once again for simple easy to understand, great clear and concise accurate information!! Its a real credit listening to you and it’s obvious your are very highly experienced something I really look up to. Feel very privileged to watch your videos Thank you so much Cheers from “downunder Australia 🇦🇺 👍
@Desmomatschi
@Desmomatschi Месяц назад
I loved to break in corners with my Ducati 900 with warm tyres on good surfaces, feeling how the bike wanted to go straight and push the inner hand to keep in lean .... great feeling of control. Took years of practice
@Jeremybaland
@Jeremybaland Месяц назад
The MSF needs to update their outdated curriculum. There so much bureaucracy and egos the real focus on safety cant really be accomplished. Solid video thanks for sharing it!
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Great point
@F3udF1st
@F3udF1st Месяц назад
I trail brake fine on my bicycle so it should work fine on the motorcycle as well. Be smooth and anything goes.
@IanTed
@IanTed Месяц назад
The issue here in northern England is narrow roads with poor visibility on most corners, without this technique we wouldn’t make much progress. I’m an experienced rider but I think as usual you give some great advice to all levels of experience on the road. I use two fingers to front brake on my lovely Multistrada in nearly every corner but it’s gentle and progressive, to be honest I very seldom touch the rear brake apart from controlling front end dive in heavy traffic which is rare around here. My instructor told me slow and gentle into a bend and as the visibility reduces, and then accelerate as the ‘vanishing point’ moves away as the road straightens and the view opens up, eventually it becomes second nature.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
I absolutely love the UK - especially Scotland and the highlands. Those single track roads with passing places are amazing. But you are exactly right. Except, I'm really soft of "vanishing point." I think it's a great clue, but it's wrong an awful lot. I've been in lots of corners where the vanishing point is moving away, but the corner is actually still getting tighter. So we coach to just wait until you can see the exit before actively accelerating.
@IanTed
@IanTed Месяц назад
@@CanyonChasers I’ve never really trusted it, my back yard is Northumberland and the Scottish Borders, all great biking roads that lead to the stunning west coast of Scotland and the Highlands, I’m a very lucky boy, keep up the great content👍.
@stevedotworld
@stevedotworld Месяц назад
This is the same thing as heel/toe shifting while when you are approaching the maximum brake pressure for the corner in a car. Right hand instead of right foot instead of left hand to clutch instead of left foot. Slow to the safe speed for that corner while trailbraking until you are ready to start accelerating. Reducing risk in a controlled manner. Kyle Wyman does this with an almost 650lb bagger racebike on the track to maintain traction and load on the front tire. The suspensions and tires are literally designed to have traction during braking force in the corner and not before singularly. Good lesson sir.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
What Kyle does on that bagger is such a great example of what _any_ motorcycle is capable of when the proper techniques are used. BTW, he does the same thing at Champ Schools in a passenger van full of students. It's amazing how it all kinda' works the same.
@thomaslenzmeier183
@thomaslenzmeier183 Месяц назад
Smooth inputs!
@manz1960
@manz1960 Месяц назад
I experienced the lack of trail breaking on my Harley low rider on a closing radius corner in May 2023 thinking I could stay on the throttle and add lean angle. Bad idea and I had 49,000 miles on top of two bikes at the time. Two problems. Too much speed at 37 mph, the bracket for forward controls/floorboards. When I hit the bracket, I lost the rear tire and low sided across the lane into a ditch. Ouch. Time stands still, although you don’t…going horizontally at 37 mph BTW. Don’t try it. I Didn’t scratch myself due to extreme gear but broke 4 ribs (thank goodness in the front, not back). FYI, because of AGATT I went home put on a tux and went to a gala. Unreal day. Gear? Top of the line Harley leather jacket, fully armored. Kevlar jeans, leather knuckle protector gloves, Harley high ankle boots. Full face helmet. Lesson? Trail break, see the exit. What I saw was pavement. Embarrassing as hell and a bit painful. Informative? Incredibly.
@SenorDelSol
@SenorDelSol Месяц назад
You mentioned a car in a corner where there's a Goldwing cruising through the corner, classic.
@Tracer9GTRider8
@Tracer9GTRider8 Месяц назад
Practice and eventually it becomes 2nd nature. Start in very easy corners and as you become comfortable with it, gradually work up to doing it in tighter corners
@Dave-sw2dm
@Dave-sw2dm Месяц назад
Finally, someone who provides the correct trail braking definition.
@ravanimi
@ravanimi Месяц назад
I think braking while leaning up to emergency braking is a vital skill to learn and should be trained. Modern bikes and tires can take an astonishing amount of brake force without any risk if done properly. However, never ever abruptly as you say, that would spell bad news (which is the reason curve ABS is becoming increasingly common.
@yl9154
@yl9154 Месяц назад
At the risk of being slightly off topic, the best emergency braking technique is not to have to do emergency braking at all. And I found that a headlight modulator, a $50-75 gadget, that make your high beam headlight flash like that of a pursuing police car has been saving me quite a few hard/emergency breaking because I don't get cut-off as often. Strangely, this simple, cheap and effective safety device is seldom discussed in motorcycle safety video and very seldom seen on the road. Despite costing 5% of some muffler " upgrade" . One of the cheapest motorcycle accessory on the market.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
They are illegal in many areas
@yl9154
@yl9154 Месяц назад
@@CanyonChasers Yes, but being legalized, even encouraged, gradually. So people can check the current legislation in their area. Let's hope common sense prevail because they noticeably work.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
@@yl9154 We shouldn't put too much faith in some of these laws. Right? It's illegal to wear a helmet in a car in some states. Like, who went to the trouble to make that one?
@StreetMotoZ
@StreetMotoZ Месяц назад
Never brake in a corner? Absolutes are derived from the dark side. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="147">2:27</a> OMG what a beautiful camera angle! Careful on roads you do not know as gravel is everywhere!
@zeplin4078
@zeplin4078 Месяц назад
Great video. May I suggest another method to explain trail breaking. If you could video your ride with your brake light showing as an insert in one of the video corners and as you comment we can see when you apply and release your brakes. Watching this video, there is corners that I would not have applied brakes but unsure if you did.
@trumpetreneau
@trumpetreneau Месяц назад
I think there is a video like this where he has a picture-in-picture showing his front brake. Motojitsu has similar videos.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Something like this? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dOIJFrZ6ks8.html
@zeplin4078
@zeplin4078 Месяц назад
Yes, 100%, a great video that explain it all. If one still don't understand after this video then I don't know what will.
@tommynikon2283
@tommynikon2283 Месяц назад
68 here/44 still riding; all sport. I was taught to SQUEEZE the front brake- NEVER EVER GRAB; Front= 80%+ of total braking available…to LOAD the front end, giving me LEAN. Also…dragging the rear brake through tight corners as needed. ***. I took a Braking Class decades ago- with the class bikes in cages- with outrigger caster wheels. We had to go 60 and lock it up. On purpose. Great lesson for stopping distances, ABS vs Non, etc.
@StratfordWingRider
@StratfordWingRider Месяц назад
I’m really inspired by these videos about trail braking. I have practiced a little. It’s reassuring that the uncertainty about the corners is normal. I do worry about my bike at times as it has CBS - but this doesn’t seem to affect my trail braking efforts.
@konstantinos777
@konstantinos777 Месяц назад
All good, I have braked into corners on the road and downshifted because I had to, there can be many reasons, for example you spot an oil or damp patch on your path while you are at lean. When you close the throttle and coast, you have engine braking, but how much that depends on what kind of bike, the load, etc. When I am on the road, I ride exactly the same way I ride on the track, but less. It's not to show off, it's stuff that works, but less speed means less braking, less lean angle, less body movement and so on. But, what you didn't say in the video and I was expecting to see, is what to do to brake while you are already into a corner if you must. Sure, be gentle and don't snatch, but that's not all of it.
@briangc1972
@briangc1972 Месяц назад
People who say "never brake in a corner", or say "accelerate through the corners", or say "do all your braking before the corner" are completely ignorant of how the suspension is designed to work on a vehicle.
@storminben
@storminben Месяц назад
Explain how asking the front suspension to cope with braking AND steering AND bumps all at the same time, through a tyre that has half the contact patch of the rear is better than opening the throttle just enough to shift weight to the rear and remove some of the load from the front?
@briangc1972
@briangc1972 Месяц назад
@@storminben That is basic Load Transfer for Steering 101. 1: The front tire has much more grip when it is loaded than when unloaded. 2: Trail braking can be accomplished with the rear brake. The engineers who designed the motorcycle put a brake on the rear for a good reason. When using the rear brake for trail braking, that frees up available grip for the front tire to use for steering. 3: Watch the Champ School series and let the pros explain this in more detail.
@storminben
@storminben Месяц назад
@@briangc1972 1. You CAN create more front grip by loading it, but you are heavily reliant on road surface at that point. If the friction reduces (eg a slight amount of dust on the road) then that increased load is going to instantly turn into an unstoppable force pushing the front tyre out from under you. I have crashed by losing the front and it is a deeply unpleasant experience 2. Trail braking using the rear brake or engine braking is more logical
@briangc1972
@briangc1972 Месяц назад
@@storminben Did I say to use the front brake? No I did not. My explanation of braking made it clear that trail braking is best done with the rear brake most of the time. Trail braking with the engine is wrong as it is unpredictable and you are unable to manipulate the braking force from the engine as precisely as you can using the brake lever.
@briangc1972
@briangc1972 Месяц назад
@@storminben You are reliant on road adhesion in all aspects of riding a motorcycle. Starting, stopping, turning, even going straight. If you doubt me, try riding 50 yards on ice without spikes.
@blipco5
@blipco5 Месяц назад
I did enjoy this excellent explanation of trail braking. Home Run! 👍
@ZoltanFogarasi
@ZoltanFogarasi Месяц назад
Get a BMW GS, it has combined brakes, with clever electronics distributing the brake power between front and rear breaks on demand. And the Telelever front suspension pretty much prevents the compression of forks when breaking. And the curve ABS does it's job, when needed. These all builds up your confidence in couple of years at a high level, because you learn that you can break in curve as much as needed (dry asphalt) safely, in case you enter in a curve too fast. I guess many other modern bikes too, except the Telelever. If you got a 25 years old Harley, be careful. :)
@waltershim55
@waltershim55 Месяц назад
You always have the best and easy definition for trailbreaking.
@kreiselkotz
@kreiselkotz Месяц назад
Great video, thumps up! One addition from my personal point of view: never ever use front brake in a close serpentine when going upwards... because that will load the front, stiffen it up and in extreme situations, like Stelvio for example, it will make you going on the opposite lane.
@user-uq2xs1si7t
@user-uq2xs1si7t Месяц назад
Last weekend i was doing 65 around a backroad corner, four deer bolted across the road and I slammed on the brakes both front and back coming to a fast stop down to 5 mph. Luckily I have abs and came to a smooth straight in my lane position stop. My Voyager slightly straightened up as I quickly slowed to the 5 mph. The buy behind me who does not have abs smoked up his rear tire and skid sideways and past me up by a few yards. He's been riding for 65 years so he did well in preventing laying the bike down. Neither of us hit any of the deer. Me only riding for 4 years have the abs working on my behalf. So braking in corners can be done one way or the other, especially if you have no choice.
@Igor12822
@Igor12822 Месяц назад
Great video as always, thanks and this is very needed for so many new and old riders who still live in wrong impression that you should never touch front brake in corner. PS love your Strada, actually called dealership last week and wanted to order new V2S to hear and stay surprised that model cannot be ordered anymore as apparently they are coming up with the new model, for which there is still no info about as of yet.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Interesting. I've been considering a V4/Pikes Peak. It's kind of hard to imagine them abandoning the V2.
@Igor12822
@Igor12822 Месяц назад
@@CanyonChasers for a new model apparently, also V2, let' see
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
@@Igor12822 I'm sure you saw the Panigale V2 final edition. Things are changing at Ducati and I don't know what to make of things. I'm going to need a new bike here - and really don't know which way to go.
@roybatty2030
@roybatty2030 Месяц назад
Great advice, thanks. Public roads are far more unpredictable and dangerous than a racetrack. No place for heroics.
@sammemrys8195
@sammemrys8195 Месяц назад
Straightforward, concise, informative. I've gained so much from this channel.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
I appreciate that!
@michaelcovel1720
@michaelcovel1720 Месяц назад
You say you don't know where the bad advice came from despite teaching it. Interesting. Reminds me of my University days when I was frequently reminded that such things were the "accepted wisdom" or "beyond the scope of the course" to question. As I understand it, SLP&R comes essentially from the reduction in the circumference of the tire as it leans. RPM increases as a result, and smoothly rolling on the throttle keeps the engine "stable". It also comes from bad (stock) suspension. I think a lot of people overlook just how good modern high performance suspensions are even compared to bikes of 10 years ago. Rolling on the throttle keeps the butterflies open so there's no engine braking and the shock loaded so it doesn't bounce, and rather unfortunately shifts weight off the front and extends the forks making the turning radius increase. It's all rather opposite of what you really want to be doing, but it comes from a place of "accepted wisdom" largely based on underperforming machinery and not really understanding the mechanics. This video really is a public service to a generation of riders. Thank you.
@CanyonChasers
@CanyonChasers Месяц назад
Great insight. I also believe it came from bias ply tires and drum brakes. Drum brakes were notorious for when you applied the brake, nothing... nothing... nothing... GRAB! Kenny Roberts was one of the first GP racers who really implemented trail braking and advocated for it widely. If you watch old races or On Any Sunday, the footage is terrible, but you can clearly see him braking very deep into corners.
@eugeniustheodidactus8890
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 Месяц назад
.... keeps the instructors from being sued.... I gladly stopped teaching people how to fly airplanes back when the world started to get overly litigious.
@langhamp8912
@langhamp8912 Месяц назад
I currently have a bike with performance and lean ABS, and it's curious (and amazing) how it brakes super hard until the forks finishes plunging, then releases for .5 milliseconds, then continuously to ferociously brake. The whole process is seamless and smooth. But performance ABS doesn't allow you to be abrupt, either up or learning. I've had several bikes before with ABS, and they were all a bit clunky, gradually less over the past 15 years. The current iteration of ABS smooth and ferocious.
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