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I have been using a variation on lure that often leads to a down, but also gives me a bunch of other good info. With a dog who has learned Sit, I do a couple of reps of Sit, then I put my fist fingers down in front of them with a treat in my palm. About 50% of the time the dogs will go through a very similar thought process. Almost always they start by pawing my hand, when that doesn't "work" they offer a Sit as that's the last thing they did that "worked", then they pause and think, and then they do a down and I turn my hand over and let them have the treat. I think my fist on the ground combined with the previous sit gives them a bit of information to work with as they "solve" the problem. On the occasions where this works I then begin to move my hand up, until I am just putting my fist in front of me, and I can then drop the treat between the dogs paws while they are down. Now I have a hand gesture cue that I can use at distance, and I start adding my verbal cue as well, along with phasing out the treats. But I also have taught the dog that thinking about the "problem" and deciding for themselves what to try is rewarding. And I have some insight into their response to frustration. And even when this "fails", that insight into frustration is still there. A "failure" being a dog who just paws at my hand and doesn't try anything else. In that case I remove my hand, pause for a moment then ask for a sit and reward. But now I know a bit about the dog's thought process and I can adjust my training. So, 100% of the time I learn a lot about the dog, and for the dogs that are more "creative" we establish that thinking for yourself is good, and I can make sure to work with that and make that a really positive experience for them, while for dogs who don't think that way I can adjust and make sure training is positive for them too.
It almost sounds like a hybrid between luring & shaping! & I agree about feedback. You can learn a lot about a dog (and often about whether their history of training was positive) by watching how much they LIKE puzzle solving & trying new things 🙂
@@happyhoundsdogtraining I am wondering how much I can affect that over time. If a dog doesn't try a down, or anything, and just paws at me in frustration, I don't call it a failure. But I am trying to figure out how to then work with that dog to help them discover their curiosity and creativity. Key being finding ways to stay below the frustration level, while making it obvious that there is something to be gained by trying. It's a fine balance between not enough motivation and too much frustration.
I'm glad it helped! 🙂 Can I ask what breed your dog is? I find it's more common for small breeds to need the tunnel method, so just curious what kind of dog you have!
Cant wait to try this tonight with my Corgi's. I wasn't using a lure I was trying to command and help them get into position but pushing them into a downed position.
@Happy Hounds Dog Training our male who is about a year and a half understands the down command or at least he is getting it. Our female seems confused. She is 2 years old and she sits right in front of me. When I put the lure to her nose she follows it down but theb looks up at me confused why she can't have it. When I put it to her nose again to guide her into position she turns away from it. I sat the lure down and would help her get into the down position. Am I doing something wrong will I need a better lure?
@@rottenreason35 Hi! Question & few suggestions :) When you say she follows the treat down, is just her head moving but she's not actually lying down? If so: 1) Definitely could be that the treat isn't high value enough! This video will walk you through a three treat test to help you determine her favourite: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yC_7KmG_4dk.html 2) You can also trying amping her up a bit by REALLY making the treat exciting. Watch minute 2:24 of this one to see what I mean: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OtdXdjdKWx8.html 3) and then lastly, distance from her nose and speed matter a lot. Try to keep it quite close to her nose as you slowly but continuously move it in that "L" shaped lure!
Once you've phased out the treat lure and your dog can lay down when you give the verbal cue/hand signal (when you're kneeling as practiced), just stand up and give the cues! You may need to lure/guide them once or twice if they seem confused by your position change, but most dogs won't need that 🙂
Okay, I’m starting to feel you’re a mind reader. Whenever I watch one of your videos this happens: Me: Hmmmm, _____ is great, but sometimes it fails. _____ would have been great to add. Happy Hounds: BTW, if that doesn’t work, consider….”. Me: 🤯
Are you doing the lure version, or the capturing? With lure I'd try to say down JUST as you start moving that lure, whereas with capturing you'd want to add it when your dog is already mid-motion :)
