This is such a great scene. It paints the picture of Alonzo's role in the bigger picture - he's just a puppet for the real players. This is a classic movie
It is more complex than just being some player. It is a direct straight criticism to rich white privileged power being misused to the extreme, for personal gains. The only thing that can hit the same level of the immunity bar, is a cop.
@@michaelbull4344 They weren't High Level enough to avoid getting whacked by the Russians. There is a Hierarchy and Deals are usually made on those Levels. Alonzo got Lucky enough they gave him a chance to make up for the Insult by paying.
What I miss the most about the 80s, 90s and early 2000s is a lot of movies like this were "one day/night" movies. Those type of movies were all kinds of crazy shit happens in one day. It be like that sometimes.
@@sookmajoaby that one is probably my favorite "one day" movie. It's like the original "Joker" in my opinion. A hard working guy who society just ate up and abused, and he just couldn't handle it anymore. That ending is fucked... A briefcase, a lunch, and a man on the edge Each step he's closer to losing his head Is someone in heaven? Are they looking down? Nothing is fair, you look around Falling down Falling down Falling down!!!🤘🤘🤘 One of my fave Iron Maiden songs too btw!
There's some truth. DEA ALWAYS knows how much coke gets used in America. They're the MAIN dealer. Remember Panama's Manuel Noriega? Invading Panama was illegal. Why did America invade Panama and illegally arrest Noriega? He wanted a bigger payoff. DEA thought he got too greedy and had to be taken out. Noriega was denied a decent trial and nobody in any news media, local or foreign, was allowed to hear his side of the story. That's a violation of international human rights.
I love the layers of contrast here. You got Jake as a rookie cop, dressed in plain clothing. Alonzo as a squad leader, dressed in a leather jacket with a gold chain- like a glorified street thug. And then you got the big fishes- an FBI captain, DA, and a high profile detective, all dressed in fine suits. Jake is to Alonzo as Alonzo is to these guys.
Good comment and yeah A lot of detectives don’t wear suits and ties. I know detectives from my gym and they wear very causal clothing on the job, t shirt and jeans, leather jacket, bomber jacket and hell one of them has visible hand and neck tattoos.
@@Jackholiday1025 well it is nature of their business on the other hand. They shouldn’t be so attention seeking if they are on the field. You can’t not investigate a drug business in the style of agent Smith.
Alonso wasn't corrupt it's just how it is in his position and the only reason why they allowed Alonso to do it was cuz they cared about him and didn't want him dead for something stupid he did and realize the Russian was connected to the russian mafia and they were helping him to get the 1 million he needed to pay them off and roger deserved what he got for selling drugs to kids for so many years like Alonzo said to Jake this chess not checkers and in alonzos position for those people to trust him you have to dirt on you thts how he was so close to roger acted as his friend and all tht and then boom when u have your shot to kill him and take everything he had to help himself out you do it
That’s one of the many reasons Denzel got an Oscar for this. His body language instantly changes in the presence of the Wisemen, compared to the rest of this film.
Notice how these guys use the word "prick" so Alonzo also adopts the usage of the word "prick" as well. That's because Alonzo is making an effort to change his vernacular and behavior around these guys to fit in. It shows how Alonzo is hyper-conscious of every social setting he inhabits. He even introduces Jake to them by using their full names, which is never how he introduces any other characters in the movie, showing that Alonzo genuinely tries to earn their respect. Not to mention every time Alonzo laughs, he looks at the wisemen around him to see if they're laughing. And when he calls Landers a "sharp gal" and the other wisemen burst out laughing, you can hear Alonzo say "no?" revealing that the joke was accidental, and that these guys are on a different league. Also, every time Alonzo drinks an alcoholic beverage, it's supposed to be a visual queue that we are learning more about Alonzo, and another side of him is being revealed. When he is in Roger's house, he drinks liquor, because we are seeing his friendly side as he banters with Roger, and conceals his intentions to betray Roger later. When he's driving the Monte Carlo, he drinks beer, because we are seeing his manipulative side as he breaks through Jake's morals and attempts to persuade him that sometimes breaking the rules is the right thing to do. In this scene, he drinks wine, because we are seeing his elitist side as he tries to convince these horsemen that he's too good at his job to die at the hands of the Russian mafia, and that his sins will never catch up to him. Also, the line at 2:49 is significant: "give him credit: he worked the system; he deserves his freedom." It basically reveals Alonzo's true colors, outlining and reestablishing the antagonistic worldview that Jake will eventually have to confront in the climax of the movie. He believes defying the rules of the system is not wrong if you can get away with it. And Jake laughing at the story shows that throughout the day, Alonzo has slowly taken apart and altered Jake's moral code, and even altered the mentality of the audience. We're hearing a story about a criminal walking free in the streets, who, based on the fact that he avoided his punishment and showed little to no remorse, we can predict will likely become a repeat offender. But because, like Jake, you've been trained to admire Alonzo throughout the movie, you can't help yourself but laugh along with him about the situation. It's also funny how, right after that line at 2:49, when Doug Rosselli challenges what Alonzo says, Alonzo backtracks, because Alonzo knows that he's the subordinate at the table. He realizes that it looks like he's siding with the criminal, and that he's not acting elitist enough to these guys' standards by separating himself from the criminals and vowing to serve street justice to the criminal. Later at 3:39, Alonzo says he'll cash in one of his accounts. That's how he has dehumanized Roger. He sees Roger not as a friend, he views him as an account. We also see Jake sipping wine at 1:28. Although drinking wine is a shared action between Alonzo and Jake, the differing colors of their drinks is symbolic of their differing approaches to fighting crime. Alonzo has corrupted Jake enough by this point in the movie that Jake feels comfortable drinking while he's technically supposed to be on the job, but the color of Jake's wine (white) represents the deep-seeded virtues within him that motivate him as a cop. Jake's moral compass has been far from abandoned. Alonzo's wine (red) represents what motivates him as a cop. While Jake retains a basic level of honesty, purity, and innocence, Alonzo is driven by his passions, impulses, and selfishness. And I haven't even talked about the clothing these characters wear. Mostly because I think the reason why Alonzo wears black throughout the entire movie (except the climax) and Jake wears a white shirt under his dark-colored hoodie is self evident. Although I should point out that Jake's white shirt gets stained with red blood after Alonzo betrays Jake and abandons him with the Sureño gang members who almost shoot him in a bathtub. It's nice symbolism for Jake losing his innocence. And I should also point out that Alonzo wears a white undershirt in the climax because the white represents how pathetically transparent the motivations behind Alonzo's smooth talk are, and we can see what a POS Alonzo truly is. This scene accomplishes so much in such little runtime. It's so rare to see a movie written this tightly. Each scene is so rich with story, but you know what the best part about this movie is? You don't need any special intuition to enjoy this movie. You can enjoy Training Day as a casual viewer who wants to turn their brain off and experience simple escapism, or you can enjoy it as someone like me who neurotically reads way too much into everything. Congratulations for reaching the end of this comment.
I'm a diagnosed malignant narcissist (ASPD+NPD) and Denzel 'performance' is too good to be contrived; sometimes actors lift the curtain (Ralph Fiennes in Sch List another example) ...your appreciation for nuance and subtlety is impressive and just wanted to say that I enjoyed your comment and it resonated personally.
You said thank you for reading the whole comment as if you were trolling. Lol, the original script writers would have to salute your breakdown if they read it. If you don't have a youtube channel, start one! 1000s will subscribe
This scene doesn't seem like much at first. But on a second watch of the movie I realized all these guys were corrupt and at the highest positions on the force.
Seems like the wiseman with the cigar knew what would happen to Jake being Alonzo’s new trainee, look at the way he looks at jake; doesn’t even say a word. Seems to feel sorry for him.
Or maybe it was because he's somewhat sad Jake's getting involved knowingly or unknowingly into corruption. Another new rookie, clean, good cop, just going after the easy buck.
I like to watch him and he's good, no doubt, but he's a one trick pony. There are much better actors out there with a much wider range, like Gary Oldman or Daniel Day Lewis. Even Christian Bale can play more characters than Denzel.
Yep. He couldn't hold it in any longer. Properly seen the same pattern over the years especially as a superior. He looked genuinely worried for Alonzo's safety and the ability to provide him with extra cash and favors.
What’s scary is how much of a threat the Russians were to seasoned cops. Like, I thought cops were untouchable and to kill a detective would have the whole force on your ass. This is making it seem like even the cops can’t do sht against the Russian mob, which is terrifying.
I always loved that there was a backstory about Alonzo that hung over his head. Pretty cool that he was seemingly so invincible, but he had a huge mark on his back
This is an underrated comment. And it's that mark on his back that pretty much guides all of his decisions throughout the film. It also still ends up leading to his violent demise.
My Dad and some Vets I know, always referred to mental hospital as the "Puzzle-Factory". This was the first time I ever heard anyone else use the term. Cracked me up.
I love how you can tell that Alonzo secretly hates the system even tho he's basically an agent in the matrix who works for the system. One of Denzel's most interesting and layered characters imo
Wtf are you talking about? Alonzo loves it. And stfu with that Matrix shit, absolutely bad analogy that makes no sense. Just delete your comment. It gives me secondhand embarrassment
He probably did it cause it's best for him to demand respect in the streets of LA. Being a gang banger can only get you so far till you end up dead or in prison. Being a detective will get you alot of power. That power went over Alonzo's head
Alonso laughs as a way to fit in here. He doesn't know the punchline, unlike the other wisemen. Many times this occurs in social situations. This whole movie is a statement of how people behave and change with different people under different social circumstances in order to benefit themselves.
+charlie c Not to worry my man, The Pacific Dining Car is still around and won't go anywhere anytime soon. Also this place is open 24 hours, but it is a bit pricy $$$.
The three wisemen aren't even the top of the dung heap. A captain, a detective and a DA. None of those guys could provide Lonzo with the warrant he needed to make the raid on Roger legal. These dudes are like connected middlemen. The money Lonzo gave the DA was to pay a judge off for the paperwork. This like watching a mafia movie but we only get to see the made men and the soldiers, not the real bosses or the capos.
If this movie setting does take place in 2001, these guys really just may be at the top. They seem to be either pioneers or graduated students of 80’s and 90’s CRASH units which is what this story is based around. Anyone higher than them is a chief of police who is more than usually closely connected to the mayors office. If they’ve made it thru the 80’s and 90’s with these high profile titles, they have major pull
And the Captain def outranks everyone. The DA is a major facilitator to determine if a shoot is clean or not, the Detective brought Alonzo in, but the Cap runs the show here
@@ThothTheAtlanteanK What are you talking about, dude? Antoine Fuqua has been directing movies every year since Training Day in 2001. He made Brooklyn's Finest in 2009, Olympus had Fallen in 2013, The Equalizer in 2014, The Magnificent Seven in 2016, The Equalizer 2 in 2018, Infinite in 2021, and The Guilty in 2021. All of them are about ex-cops or law enforcement badass dudes shooting people. Stop pretending there's a problem.
@@User-ei7eo My response was to the other commenter's quip on "thank hollyweird and feminism". Whether Fuqua's other movies are average or not, they were made in the spirit and style of Training Day. Feminism didn't force them to be average.
This is one of those films. The more you watch it, the more you appreciate it for what it is. They established the players, built the foundations of a solid plot and built upon that with scenes that sucked you in. All within the span of a 24 hour day. It wasnt a perfect movie, but a damn good one with a masterfully acted cast.
I finally understand what the peanut butter story is about. It's about a guy who thinks he is untouchable, he has been out smarting the system but he doesn't realize that he still has to live with the people that are a part of the system.
@@MrBraddles3128 stories in movies aren’t just funny stories, they’re subtle storytelling devices within the greater story. So calm down, don’t be a prick, and appreciate that this guy appreciates the movie and understands it better than you do
very interesting the way he said it ... he was always used to being the Alpha but he knew he wasn't one at the table but he wanted to save face so he had to say something..
Did anyone notice that the cop telling the story was the narcotics chief detective Mel Bernstein in Scarface Montana: "So long Mel have a great trip". Mel: "Fuck You !"
His name is Harris Yulin, good actor, tends to play a cop or someone in law enforcement quite frequently. Also, a fun fact, he and Denzel were in the movie "The Hurricane."
How come people don't mention Training Day when talking about all time great gangster movies, it should be there. It's a great movie. Edit: You guys are saying Training Day is not a gangster movie, but I see a lot of gangs and gangsters in the movie. Plus by definition, Alonzo is a gangster, he is a gangster with rackets, an outlaw. Look up the word gangster and the definition.
@@Relbl I liked that, actually. It felt like Alonzo had had a lot of trainees like Jake, but in this case Jake's goodness and a piece of luck turned the tables in his favor...
AZK91 I agree. People have this odd narrative they pretends going on here. “Alonzos soooo nervous here.”. You mean when he reaches over and grabs their wine and pours a glass without asking? Quit pretending he’s shaking in his boots because you want to pretend you’re some body language expert.
@@KobaAM I never felt he was scared but I felt he was the Enforcer on the Streets and they were the Enforcers in the Offices so it's like they were equal cause I'm sure if they turned their backs on him he would straight up tell them You forget I do the work on the streets we both need each other
I thought the same. Great cinematography. Mauro Fiore is actually kinda underrated as a cinematographer despite winning an Oscar for Avatar (which was more for the overall "groundbreaking 3D visuals") - Training day, The Island, Real Steel, Magnificent Seven are all really well shot movies.
Tripleblade 82 Happens everywhere. In Hawaii, cops will let chicken fights slide around the island as long as the house gives them their cut. I’m talking easy 100K+ profit at a chicken derby, not including food vendors who come in, dice games that the house provides, etc. I’ve seen cops literally waiting outside the house for their cut. Not to mention gambling’s rooms as well. This shit is definitely real.
@@mentlinc he said that because the suspect that he worked so hard to put away got a light deal on his sentence (probably only treatment at a low security level psychiatric clinic vs. actual prison time) because of him basically showing (pretending) to the court that he was crazy with the peanut butter ruse. Doug is disgruntled and defeated over how the system so easily worked in the suspect’s favor that he wants to kill him himself.
@@mentlinc it foreshadows what the Russians did to Alonzo at the end of the film. He tried to finesse his way across killing a Russian mafia boss/or high ranking member thinking he can live when in reality someone of power is going to kill him
It's also a commentary that once you pass a certain line legally or morally (like Alonzo did), the only price you pay is with your life because you have lost the legal or moral pre-requisites to the protection of both. Thus Alonzo screaming impotently that he's the law when the people in a neighbourhood ignore him.
Harris Yulin’s character is the most complex here. He’s a bridled part of a very corrupt system, and yet he still takes being an officer of the law seriously. He is genuinely pissed off about a criminal cheating the system and getting away with it, even though that’s what the three of them do every day. Then his answer is vigilante justice, because it’s the only justice he can deliver, but at least some justice was served, and that’s his job.
Well shot scene. You can feel the atmosphere there.... he's sitting at the table with the big dogs, you can sense the tension in the air, and dialogue and interchanges definitely get that across
What I like about this scene is how he starts laughing before he tells the story, makes it infectious, almost impossible to not find it funny. Little moments like this that are realistic are what make movies for me.
@@cayden6033 I was referring to the detective. Like when they're egging him on to tell it, and he shakes his head and starts smiling about it, through all of his anger he still can't help but find it funny too. But you are spot on, Denzel is definitely trying to fit in with people above his pay grade. The way he talks down to Jake, they do to him.
Very subtlety acted scene. The more you look at it, the more you realize these guys are all fine professional actors. - because you d swear they were real cops.
Michael Sinclair Tom Berenger was the sadistic Sergeant Barnes in the 1986 hit Platoon and was nominated for best supporting actor at the Oscars but won a Golden Globe for his portrayal of Barnes.
They totally set Alonzo up here, a good laugh in the beginning but they were backing off to see if Alonzo could really "handle it" , blind as a bat because of his ego
And when they advise him to “hop a jet outta there” they knew he was being followed by the Russians and him doing that would just speed up his execution.
***** (Regarding Tarrantino) Satire, irony or pastiche yes, message not so much. In this scene it works to advance the narrative as we find out that Alonzo owes moeny.
Oh yeah, my favorite moment from him in this scene! I don't remember seeing any other movie where a character made this very specific eye shifting thing. Anxious as hell!
@@IronMan-tk8uc maybe the guy who played General Burgdorf in Downfall. When Hitler is screaming at his generals he shifts his eyes in such an intense manner. It really adds to the tension of arguing with a furious dictator on the verge of a complete mental breakdown.
>News lady: an officer was killed today serving a high risk warrant >shot up on an empty street at midnight hours after the warrant was served This movie showed you that even the news media is in on the corruption. Sick and scary thought.
Great scene...excellent choice by Antoine Fuqua to get 3 pros like Tom Berenger, Raymond J. Barry and Harris Yulin to play the wise men...on the DVD commentary Fuqua said he was thrilled these great character actors did the movie.
Antoine brought guys that could bring the type of gravitas that you needed in a scene like that. It takes a certain type of actor to be able to carry that scene up..... You want an actor that can carry that dialogue and carry that scene forward but can share with the other actors in there.
To add to that imagine for argument's sake if you put someone else in Denzel's role and then put Denzel in that meeting as one of the wise men Denzel would overpower every actor in that scene in my opinion.
The guy telling the peanut butter story establishes himself as the best actor of the three wise men right here 0:38 without even saying anything... When Jake says "Nice to meet you", he just gives him that look "So polite - must be a total beginner in this dirty business".
I remember literally almost crying from laughter from this scene. It's funny but not like split my side funny. But with Denzel and Tom Berenger it's easy.
This is basically the Roger scene. When he tells the story about the snail and answers his phone saying It's your mess you clean it up. He's basically telling Alonzo he's not helping him out of this.
If you try to imagine Alonzo's backstory. You can see those guys were probably the ones that brought him into corruption like he, and his team was trying to do with Hoytt later. In the beginning of his career you can imagine Alonzi actually trying to do good like Jake was, but unlike him he actaully went with it.
I love how (after having seen the movie and knowing the full story that the latinos tell later) you can practically see what happened: Alonzo in the club, drunk, someone (the Russian) bumps into him and spills his drink and he loses it, and beats a the Russian mobster to death in the back, gets manhandled and taken into a back room and beaten, they demand $1 million in a week and throw him out on the street. Great storytelling without actually telling.
I'd say it's that somehow the Russian called him a bitch. Look at how he responds every time it happens. Extremely violent. I've always wondered if he would even have killed Roger if Roger didn't call him "their bitch."
This movie perpetuates the myth of corruption in this country. The table has three men who are supposed to represent the source of the corruption in city. A police Captain, the DAs lead IG, and a high end property crime detective. All work for the city. The truth about American police corruption is much worse and it originates in Washington, the low level players are Feds and Agents, the Mid level players are Station Chiefs and Think Tanks, and the High level players are DOD and DOJ ranking members. There is lower level corruption here and there, and Feds usually bust those guys, but in general city and municipal police do there job and look away when they are instructed to.
Alonso seems to be struggling to become one of the wise men. To them he is what Jake is to him. Great scene, great movie. Shows the hiararchy of corruption and your way up the distorted system
Yup there’s definitly levels to the hierarchy in corruption. These dudes are at the highest levels of power and are corrupt as fuck. Alonzo is still a small dog compared to them.
These dudes are high up, but the DW character is the king of the streets and they know this. As soon as they heard he had a way out of the predicament, they ok’d it. The man was a player in the game, but a formidable one.
@@Astarrrrr I wouldn't say small dog. He just hadn''t worked his way up the chain to the plateau that they're at or assess the kinds of privilege they received. Thus, he had to pay them for a judge's signature on no-knock warrant with orchestrating a seizure in the next two upcoming scenes. What's funny is that they know he was dead the minute he walked into the restaurant with Jake and never felt the urge to even to come to his aid, but only to take a payoff. To them, he was just another liability whose luck had run out
If the government is corrupt.... why is the "rabbit hole" of the police force considered deep? Do people really believe the idealistic lies about the "government" and "establishment" acting in their best interest? Like really, even now in 2021? LOL
They need to remake this movie and make it about the three horsemen. And in the end Alonzo shows up. Roll credits. Actually they can make a movie of each one. Combine it and training day was always the final. BRO! Fast and furious has like 20 movies give me a break!
“Judge is female.” It’s interesting they felt that detail is so important to the context of the story. Seems like they don’t think too highly of female authority figures.
Honestly like who would have the foresight to smell an inmate’s finger after the guy put his hand in his ass lmao? men in high positions used to see women as overly emotional in decision making. Women started being eligible to be judge wayy later than they should have. I also think that’s a generational thing. Alonzo called the lady sharp, while the wise men were talking shit about her.
You do realize that this scene is basically a personification of Macbeth's Three Witches. They predict Alonzo's downfall just how Macbeth would be King and fail. You do see that, right?
