Treasure Found - Long Lost Logs from Belize 

Al Hattie it sounds to me like you got to use Mahogany that was still of the quality of the old stuff. Today it’s rare to see material with that kind of character. $15 for all the materials??? That was expensive wood back then too! I saw an old manifest for a shipload of Cuban Mahogany once from 1911 and it showed it’s worth at $0.18 per Board Foot!! You definitely built a couple of heirlooms there Al and I’m sure they’ll be appreciated long after we both are gone.

Just wondering, is any of these axe cut pre-1790 mahogany logs on display in a museum?

@@daintree98 not to my knowledge but it’s not a bad idea. Unfortunately COVID has canceled our operation for over a year now and it’s going to be awhile before any is available….

Thank you Hypnoray..... Its amazing what this wood does for resonance and sustain in a guitar.... they seem to have more "punch" also.

@@greenerlumber Agreed. Mahogany is a wonderful tonewood full of body and sustain. I too have a mahogany Martin, though it's the less expensive DM, basically made of "plywood." The layered mahogany shows nothing goes to waste and, through Martin's expert hands, produces an instrument that does indeed have so much more "punch" as you mentioned. Thanks for showing the beautiful guitar.

+Victor D. Easley, Thanx for you comments. I can't tell you what wood your chest was made of but I can tell you the price for it and what it cost to get it into the US was very good... even for 1986. Today, depending on the species is was made of, the cost would be prohibitive. RP

Thank You Cathy, it is some amazing stuff for sure.

+Allen A ...... WoW!!! Yes there is definitely always an adventure to be had down there. There is something about the climate, or the food, or something in the water that has a tendency bring out the "what the heck" in us while there. We spent a lot of time and money having a metal boom designed and built for that skidder and we were told by our ops manager down there that we should just do it the "Belizean Way"... "Use whats available and make do mon" Oh no, we were much smarter than that.... we had this monstrosity built and when we mounted it on the skidder it would barely lift the weight of itself without the front end coming off the ground, god forbid lifting a wet log out of the water....sheeeeesh.... as you see in the video it was a simple matter of sticking a Billy Web log in the tow frame and it lasted us 3 seasons before needing replacement. Thanx for sharing... RP

Ouch. 'spent time and money designing a metal boom for that skidder', yet no one thought to calculate the weight? OUCH.Damage to both pride and pocketbook... guess that wood pays for all though? Hope the locals are getting a reasonable chunk of the pie... gorgeous wood, kudos on the salvage!

Plant some trees you. Trees take 100 years to grow massive.

Thanx for the offer Ryan!! Since this video was done we have begun sawing and drying the material in Belize. The only time I bring logs to the states now is when they're too big for the mills down there. I have a couple of options here in Missouri for sawing slabs up to 6' wide that works very well and slabs seem to be all the rage at the moment for large conference room and dining room tables.Our Ops manager and his family live in San Ignacio on the west side of town on Benque Viejo road. Let me know the next time you plan on going down there and I'll get you in touch with them.

Hi Nancy, Yes we've seen a lot of beautiful Mahogany painted over in many of the older homes and buildings in Belize.... I'm sure there is a lot of the same going on here with "white" being the new norm where remodeling is concerned.... sad.

Hi Jesse, go to the website gallery and you can see all manner of what’s been produced with this sinker material.... www.greenerlumber.com/hardwood-project-gallery

Yes.... You really can't appreciate it till you see it in person....makes you understand why journeymen back in the 18th century loved working with it....especially with hand tools.

@@greenerlumber I very much agree.I work with a lot of different exotic woods and wood burls.Ive got some mahogany burl that is my treasure.Its almost too nice to cut for inlays.The richness is without comparison to anything else

@@greenerlumber Well said. It would be nice if striped wood that's been finished could be viewed in the right light with the camera moving over the stripes to show how they "move" with the eye. I compare such figuring with star jewels such as a star sapphire where the "eye" of the stone follows the eye. The beauty of the wood must seen in person to be believed.

Thanx ddf, This is what REAL mahogany is supposed to look like when the trees were allowed to grow to a greater maturity than what is being cut from the rainforest or plantations today. Most all of the logs we recover are old and sometimes virgin growth material with amazing figure and grain. Its always exciting to see what kind of figure shows up when we put a log on the sawmill... Rich.

I was just at the Guacamallo bridge on my last trip to Belize in September. The BDF camp is still there on the west end of the bridge and still active today. I don't know where they get their alcohol now as I'm not sure the logging camp is still there but I know it was run by the Bedran family and they still log in that part of the forest today. it has changed a lot since 1979 that is for sure!!

@@greenerlumber not sure what the camp looks like now but we built the original so 1 gas fired fridge and a gas ring and 1 chef 4 or 5 royal irish rangers and me ( a gunner medic)

cool lets go cut them

+Barry Thacker If you ever get something going and find a substantial quantity of Maple please contact me. I have a client who would be interested in it. Thanx, Rich.

greenerlumber The state keeps giving me the run around, Is that in log or board form? I really do appreciate that I will save your site. I do not see a lot of demands for this wood , I only know of a few people up here in this business, I had to put a small motor on my fishing boat I keep hitting logs, All of our rivers are full of logs we were number 1 in log driving if you have buyers you might want to work up here

There is a reason why logging and sawmills stopped 100 years ago. From the first european settlers in the 1600s to recent times. All of that land was dense old growth forest harvested for ship masts. These are all, natural resources full of value. But they need space and time to grow. I want to make things out of wood and harvest the forest responsibly. It goes to show that if that many logs are just the “leftovers” we can get-an idea how many were taken. Because of the massive deforestation across the world we need to temper our lust for raw materials with sustainability. Talk with foresters. This is our chance to learn from past mistakes where people took from the land without an afterthought. The land has given us these great natural resources to use lets give back to the land that supports our livelihood. Massive forest replanting on a global scale. Work to reverse desertification. If we put land conservation as a priority over immediate profits we would be able to harvest 10-100x more witha plan to regrow and replace what we take. Nature allows us to take from her as a part of her natural cycle, but we have disrupted natures process and many lands no longer produce anything of value because we inhibited the land to recover to the Point of environmental collapse. Bottom line: harvesting trees is okay if you have a proper plan to restore what is taken and maintain forest lands. Give forests the space and time to grow and regrow.small communities managing local forests using resources locally without depleting the woodstock = good. Imperialistic nations claiming dominion over natural resources clear cutting millions of acres of white pines for ship masts to enforce their conquest attitude across the globe=bad.. we need to look at how native Americans managed the land because we don’t see millions of acres of desolate lands until the europeans arrived hungrily lusting after the natural resources of north america. I want to harvest the natural resources but I feel before any of that can move forward, a plan for restoring our lands to their former glory takes precedence. Too many times through history we destroy a renewable resource for a one time cash profit.... Look to the Indians for lessons on how life could be. There is a sickness in the mentality of the “modern” world. Greed, selfish, shortsighted thinking got us here to our current state of affairs. I wish the world could put aside the differences we have and return to land and water conservation and instead of humans dominating and decimating the landscape we find our niche and grow.

GWAIN Andrews Thanx for your comments. Wait till you see some of the guitars this material produces.....amazing!

Thanx Magician!! It's been a real adventure..... more to come soon.

subsailor1 Thanx, Gregor Hilden is a crazy good guitar player. He was kind enough to let us use his music in the "Present Day Belize" segment of the video.

+Rose White , Logs were harvested during the "dry" season when rivers and streams were too low to float the logs to the harbor in Belize City to be loaded onto ships. So the logs from the start of the dry season sat in the water for a long time, (upwards of 8 months), and a dense old growth log like that will not float that long and sinks to the bottom. When the rainy season comes it raises the river levels up enough to float the logs over the shallow riffle areas. The rain, (over 100 inches in 4 months), would also wash tons of sediment into the streams which would cover the sunken logs with a layer of mud, sand and small cobble. With the next dry season the process would start all over again. Right now we are recovering the logs that are visible on the bottom. In time we will begin recovering the buried ones. Those logs will be very interesting indeed! Thanx for your comment. Rich.

Hi Rich, thanks for explaining. I ask because I'm Fundamental Christian and accept that 4,300 years ago Earth was flooded and all vegetation washed off to create all the oil, gas ans coal and lots of people claim trees would not have been deeply buried in flood. Obviously if they sank in the standing water months of flood they would then get covered in the deep sediment during the massive drain offs. Don't see much fancy furniture in UK these days as everyone shops at Ikea.

greenerlumber

You're right Chris. We have found Sinker Mahogany logs sporting over 60 rings per inch which today is unheard of. It is a better quality of wood and the color of it is much deeper than the 12 - 16 ring per inch material being harvested from the rainforest now. RP

That ring count as you say is unheard of today, - makes for beautiful figuring on the board. I have restored a lot of period furniture and it is hell to get a good match unless you use wood of the same age, - todays veneer is absolute rubbish. I have bought old 'rough' and broken C of D's in order to get the wood / veneer in order to restore better pieces. I'm intrigued how you are going to find the buried logs, - without giving too much away would I be right in saying 'sonar' of some form.

+Rich Firyn Guess what? www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2016/USA/Les-Paul-Sunken-Treasure.aspx#LPSST16RGNH1

+Kasper Brink That's cool, thanks for sharing that back at me.

Thanx Urge!! Glad you liked it.

Thanx Roger.... glad you like it.

That’s a guitar built by Chris Oliver of Infinity Luthiers.

Yes Swedish, there is some available.... please contact us through the website at www.greenerlumber.com.

Hi Nakia, You can go to www.greenerlumber.com and click on the "Shop Our Store" link to purchase material. If you don't see what you want there please goto the "Contacts Us" link and give us a call. Thanx.

Why? I would think they have other concerns.

@@aldomoraigne3403 And what other concerns would they be? Those of us who live here should have the opportunity to purchase what belongs to the people

Ian, you can purchase this material locally by contacting River Works Ltd. in San Ignacio.....Thank You.

@@greenerlumber Thank you for your response, I shall make contact with them

@@greenerlumber Can you please provide e mail or contact number as River Works Ltd is not listed in the phone book

The trick is to saw and dry the lumber before that happens.

BigRalphSmith this material is not cheap but not ridiculous either. When compared price wise with young growth mahogany being sold in some markets today it runs about twice as much. It all depends on the figure found in the wood. That is what will drive the price over the top. But then again, what is the highest quality worth in any material????..... Whatever the enduser is willing to pay for it.

Exactly! I get comments in emails and phone calls from period furniture builders who have used this material and many of them tell me they now understand why this wood was so popular back in those days. It works like a polymer when using hand tools.

No this is what is called "genuine/hunduran mahogany"-- the real deal -- see www.wood-database.com/honduran-mahogany/

At least they left it behind in the rivers instead of letting it rot in the forest.... maybe by getting a taste of what real old growth material was like we will now let the forests renew themselves through different and more effective methods of sustainable forestry in hopes of growing some more material that could be considered "old growth".

Hi Jenny, Yes, you are correct. We deal only in River Recovered timber in several different species but mainly Honduras Mahogany. Thanx, Rich.

Hi Gary..... this video was made during the early stages of our operation..... we now saw 90% of the logs in Belize and ship the lumber to the US and other countries.

What do you think they were out there in the jungle cutting the trees down for fun? Get real lol

pete aplin in some circumstances you would be right. Where this material is concerned though it's a bit different. By agreement with the government of Belize only Belizean citizens perform all the work up to the point of the material export. The ground crews, equipment operators, boat captains, and divers are paid a wage that is much better than the prevailing wages in the country. No big contracted offshore companies coming in and sucking up all the resources for free. We also, (after realizing what it was costing to ship all the water hidden in these logs), are now sawing these logs into lumber in Belize and drying down to

It certainly is a surprise to read this but a welcome surprise and I guess something that must be expected in this day and age.