To save a lot of labour especially for Strat owners may I suggest soldering a couple of thin wires to lugs 1 and 2 of the volume pot (long enough to reach outside of your guitar assembly) You can clip on the various component combinations and hear what each does. Once you've decided, slacken strings, open up and solder directly in place :)
Yes, Martin, that's the way one should go to really customize the final setup the ears are "looking" for, because all components act differently, sometimes also different from expectations or rules. Trial + Error but without soldering and soldering and soldering, not to mention putting in and out of Pickguards. I do this on every guitar I wire new components into. That is custom work. Best regards "MrHKBlues"
What is rarely talked about when talking about these circuits is what lower frequencies are being cut and examples of what caps are being used. Also how these circuits effect the taper of the volume pot.
This might be handy if you are going to order some caps for the mod: Simple: 0.001mf = 0.001uf = 1nf = 1000pf Kinman: 0.0012mf = 0.0012uf = 1.2nf = 1200pf Duncan: 0.002mf = 0.002uf = 2nf = 2000pf As said in the video, try different values and see what work. As a tip, try using alligator clips for this. That way you don't have to solder and can try many many different values :). I like the simple mod, with the next values for myself: (slight treble bleed, noticeable enough, not over the top) Humbucker neck 700-800 pf Humbucker bridge 450-550 pf Strat: 300 pf Tele: 350-400 pf Thanks Breja for all these cool video's!
roeletti Hey dude. Thanks for offering this info. I'm curious what pickups you're using with these cap values. In my Eclipse I have a SD JB bridge and SD '59 neck. Would you mind suggesting values for me ? Sounds like you've spent a lot of time finding the best cap values for your pickups. Thanks and have a great day. :-)
I was kinda wondering the massive capacitor values too. Micro (μ) should be written using u when using with Latin alphabet, otherwise it can be confused with milli (m) which is 1000 times larger.
Don, sorry I was not around when you posted these timeless videos. I would have loved to be part of some of the discussions. Your sharing of information in all of your videos is par none to anyone on the net these day. You have helped countless folks like myself find the confidence to open up their guitars and find a brave new world of dialing in tone and exploring mods of all kinds. Hats off to you Sir words can not express the gratitude I have for the knowledge you videos convey. Blessings.
I just installed the Kinman treble bleed into my Fender American HH strat and its like night and day, brightened up the sound with more transparent frequencies, save me a lot of money on pickup replacement and other mods
Thanks so much for your thorough and precise videos very important to the do it yourselfers out there who need details to do things right the first time
Thanks this is great! I installed the duncan style treble bleed and the volume pots on my LP and they're so much more usable now, especially in coil split mode. I used 1.5 nf caps and 100k resistors since that's what I had lying around.
Hey Don, very good, informative video. I am in the beginning stages of a telecaster project, and this answered several questions I had regarding treble bleed circuits. Appreciate it greatly!!
Thanks for making a succinct and useful video.I have just started rewiring my 8 month old Ibanez semi hollow body with the "Jimmy Page" style circuitry and new HB pickups and am thinking of adding in 2 treble bleeds at the same time. Leaning towards the Kinman version at the moment so thanks again for drawing my attention to it.I think I will have to do it now as it is too much work to do the mods on a semi hollow body style guitar after the new pots etc have been installed.Cheers
Very interesting info, thank you. I find ironic that DiMarzio sells volume pots with Duncan Treble Bleed mods (they call it it high pass), whereas Seymour Duncan only sells plain vanilla pots.
@@bige2867 Hey! On my set up the the duncan set up sounded the most natural. Meaning at full volume it sounded the same as if I didn't have a treble bleed. Of course when I rolled off the volume it was a consistent sound just quieter. I also like the clean look when installed lol. My set up was a SD Le Brea Bridge pick up, SD mini humbucker (bridge) for the neck. 250k volume, 250k tone
Great video!!! Thanks! I would have to say though, it's not that people hear it differently, is that they have different pickups, strings, etc. All that affects the hysterisis response and therefore what you're filtering. That's why some people completely get rid of all controls and do pickup straight to amp and control it there, but then you've just moved the problem elsewhere and with a long cable to add.
so what i did on my ibanez RG (wasn't sure what style i wanted to use) i put an alligator clip on each terminal of the volume pot.. then i attached every combo i wanted to those clips, changed values of caps and resistors etc. until i figured which worked best for me. the caps and resistors are cheap, so i bought a bunch. i found (for my ear) the kinman method with a 330pf ceramic cap and 150kohm 1/4w resistor sounded the best. the taper on the pot wasn't affected too much and the treble was still very present at a low volume.
Awesome...i made a set of test leads with alligator clamps for a bit of a project. i had an LP style guitar custom built, but still did a few mods (babicz bridge, switchcraft toggle and i replaced the witch hats with speed knobs) Now, i have a pair of "beta" or test humbuckers from Jeff Lace to install and review. i had an amazing electronics guy on Audiokarma construct a 250k pot harness, as Lace pups like 250s much better than 500k. i also had him put a push pull tone knob for phase. Anyway, he also sent a few treble bleeders, and additional caps for me to listen and put the best sounding (to me) combo. Gonna start this weekend. A bit of a daunting task. i do Luthier work all the time, but i farm electronics out, unless its a simple fix. Glad you found your setting using test leads, they are a great tool for testing multiple options! Be Well, -trout
Just added a treble bleed to my strat using a 1960s 600v .47uf white molded capacitor and attaching it to the legs(parallel) of the original green 473k .treble bleed works good when using harmonics with distortion. its even more bassy on the low end with a clean tone.
This is a great Video for someone wondering about fitting one. There are videos of people using different values for sound comparisons but we all use different guitars and equipment. I have experimented so much over the years. Most towns have a Maplins or similar shops that sell electronics. Resistors and capacitors are so incredibly cheap. I use crocodile clips which enables me to try components quickly and easily. On a Strat, it's incredibly simple in particular. I have guitars that spread over a large time frame, from the 50's to new and I don't believe vintage capacitors make any difference. I'm sure someone will tell me they can hear the difference but I can't.
Just wanted to say thanks for all your vid's. I've used the grease bucket and treble bleeds on my guitars. I like how explain what does what, so I subscribed.
The Kinman version is actually a Colin Bloxsom version, it works very well and it doesn't mess with the taper of the pot as much as the parallel version. I've had this treble bleed circuit in my Strat for easily a decade and I'm very happy with it.
Sorry, you're wrong Mark, you must be thinking about something else. Colin had nothing to do with inventing this device. It was all my own work and I remember very clearly the experiments I did in developing it and settling on the values. Anyway I'm glad you like it more then the parallel types. Chris Kinman
I'm using the "simple" treble bleed (TB). it is very effective. When I play high gain and want a bit more clarity for chordings, i can back the volume a bit and the tone clears up very nicely. But I noticed, the sound become somewhat "chopped off" when rolling it down to mute the guitar. I think it will be a smarter choice to wire the TB in push pull pots DPDT, so when i need to just shut the guitar down , i can disengage the treble bleed, so i didnt get that weird cut off sound. When I want to clears up the tone a bit, i can engage the treble bleed.
i know its not exactly what you were saying, but after reading your post, i have seriously started wanting a kill switch on a couple of my gitters. Not a big thing, but really useful when you want it!
I completely agree with this being a specific mod. Some guys even use alligator clips to test different values. I did a new HSS pickguard for my Kramer Focus 3000 (strat copy). It's all DiMarzios (Humbucker and Area singles). For the tone pot, I used a 0.033uF. I added a treble bleed mod, as well. I am using a 330k resistor (or was it 270k?) and 510pF cap in parallel. I think they were great values to use for the tone i wanted.
i use a kinman circuit. .047 cap, 150k ohms resistor. duncan sounds thin. kinman does not lose the mid frequency yet still bleeds the treble. i have the same circuit on all my 3 electric guitars (tele, cort aero11 and viva gold 2), and a 5 string active/passive bass
The new American Professional strat has a combination of Duncan and Kinman. 1200pf cap with 150k resistor in parallel above a 20k resistor in series on the left cap leg. Sounds very natural.
Are you completely sure about this? The 20K would just lower the output, and no one would need that. If the 1200pf is in series with the 20K, and both parallel to the 150K would make a little bit more sense.
:) I know. All of my guitars are finished and set the way I like them so I don't want to take them apart anymore. I did just build a test guitar for these videos going forward so hopefully I'll be able to start having some sounds included in some of these in the future.
What do you think about adding one of these treble bleeds to your other Strat mod called dual capacitors? I was planning to do both. Of course inspired by your extremely informative, no BS style!
+AgentJayZ It's all really dependent on the pickups and how they sound. The Dual Cap Mod is on 7 of my 9 Strats and in some cases the pickups led me down a tone path of needing the treble bleed and others they didn't.
Stew-Mac sells premade ones, although they are overpriced ($7.50) compared to just buying the same components elsewhere ($2). They are the duncan (parallel) circuit, with either a ceramic or an orange cap. I used their values but bought the parts elsewhere and I liked how they turned out in an SG with 57 Classic pickups, and in a gretsch currently with broadtrons. The gretsch originally had a kinman style circuit from the factory and it was pretty worthless. I didn't notice much difference to the taper of the pots using these. I used the 100V .001uF orange drop polyester cap, and a 1/4 watt 150-Kohm resistor. Very happy with the result. Mojotone sells premade ones for $3 with the ceramic cap using 220K resistor and a 471pf cap. Haven't tried that combo yet but will soon.
Hey so what did you think about the other combo you were going to try? I too have an SG and just bought a .001uF ceramic cap with a 270k resistor that I will try first in series and then in parallel to see which I prefer.
@@socialdef3 I never did try those Mojo spec ones. They are still sitting there waiting for me to get around to it LOL. What did you end up deciding with your experiment? If you have an SG you might try the spec below if it had humbuckers. I just installed the "stewmac spec" (.001 uF orange drop + 150K-ohm) ones I made (Duncan style/ parallel) on a Gibson Les Paul Standard 60's Wildwood Select Les Paul. Pickups are wildwood spec '59 Tribute humbuckers. They worked really great for this guitar. (I'd say the pickups are pretty similar to 57 classics, maybe slightly bassier in the low end.) The result was the treble is preserved or mostly preserved through the range, rolling the volume back can still clean up a dirty signal in terms of gain/dirt, and the volume taper is slightly modified to be less like audio taper pots and more like a "vintage taper" pot. Or to my ear, I'd say it changed like this: WAS: Full Vol = 10, Half Vol - 7 to 7.5, Qtr Vol = 5, Cut Out 1.5 A little humped up with most control in the upper range TO: Full Vol = 10, Half Vol = 5, Qtr Vol = 2.5 to 3, Cut Out 1.5 Much smoother taper. Very pleased with that result. The only thing I haven't tried with it yet is playing at very low and very loud volumes. Sometimes that kind of changes how things work, so more experimenting required there to see. But for my "practice" levels these are great. If it maintains that taper at stage volumes, I'm going to be really glad I installed these.
It\s possible to do it without soldering, just wrap the legs around to luggs of the potentiometer. Super easy and worth trying. The cap or resistor has long enough legs to get a decent connection. This way you can keep your guitar being orginal with the mod.
The solder lugs of a pot are correctly identified as follows. With the shaft of the pot pointing towards you with the lugs hanging downward the lug on the left is #1, the wiper is lug #2 and the lug on the right is lug #3. Lug 3 of the volume pot is connected to the incoming signal. Lug 2 (wiper) is connected to the output jack's tip solder lug. Lug 1 is always connected to ground.
Excellent explanation. I just bought caps and resistors and will do some experimenting from the Duncan to Kinman kind, but do I need to solder the resistor to the cap or do I just wrap it around like the diagram?
Dan, Thanks A lot for your many Video. You are very clear and helpfull. I have used several mod on my strat and I am very happy about. I have a question: the "Treble Bleed" can coexist vith the "Vintage tone wiring"?? and if yes How? Thanks
Can you tell us though what effect changing the capacitors and resistors will have? For example, if we increase or decrease the value of the capacitor, will that allow more or less high end to pass? and will increasing or decreasing the resistor in the Duncan bleed cause the taper to roll off quicker or slower?
have you ever tried a combination of the two resistor locations? Could this be used to dial in your volume taper and treble character or would one simply negate the other?
what is best for jazzmaster stuff with 1meg pots? i have a mythos adjustable one so i dont know which sounds best. i guess it is harder to tell then i thoguht.
Thanks for the great video, I might want to try this mod. I do have a question. I have an american strat special SSS, texas special PUs. I have a basic understanding of how the pickguard is wired up and the purpose of caps on the tone pots. But my strat has 2 disc caps per TONE pot, the same 2 caps on each tone pot. Cap #1 is BC Z5U 203M 1KV This cap is installed in a standard way, grounded to pot and connected to lug on right, (when lugs are pointing down). Cap #2 is Y5U 104M This cap is soldered to middle lug and left lug, (when lugs are pointing down). .... Can you tell me what the purpose of Cap #2 is ? Thanks Terry
Hi there, thanks for the lessons. I am upgrading a cheepee Strat. I installed a fine set of 69 Fender pickups.I am old school and fell in love with the original fender sound when the Venturer's came out " Walk don't Run tune back in the 60's. So now I would like to duplicate the tone of the Stratocasters that were used.I noticed that the metal on the pickup posts were a lot higher quality and heavier than the cheaper ones. However, there is still a problem with tone regulation. Would you happen to know which sized capacitors were used back then? I now am going to buy some better capacitors and even try the resistors out with them. Cheers, Leon
Hey Leon... Not sure you're gonna make much headway matching the Venture's sound by switching out the Capacitors but in that era, most Strats had a .1uF Ceramic Disk capacitor. A lot of their sound came from their Mosrite guitars. They switched in the early 60's after playing mainly Fender Jazzmasters. 'Walk Don't Run' was a Jazzmaster strung with really heavy gauge strings going into a Fender Tweed. So - I guess if this is the sound you want to get, you'd need a late 50's style Jazzmaster or Mosrite Ventures model Mark 1 and a Fender amp. Best of luck... Don
i usually remove any treble bleed that comes with the guitar, when you turn the volume down and lose some treble the tone is more mellow which is what i want when i turn down the volume
Great video!!! Can you add info in the comments as to the impact of going up and going down in values of the components? You mention that the displayed values are starting points. For each type of bleed circuit It would be nice to know things like: If you go up in capacitor value, then the treble will... If you go down in capacitor value, then... If you go up in parallel resistor value, then... if you go up in series resistor value, then... and so on.
+Joallyson Castro I know. I didn't have an easy way of showing them off at the time. The difference is pretty subtle so even if I could, I'm not sure via RU-vid, you'd be able to discern which was which.
Would the Duncan option work well with Humbuckers ? I have a Tele that has the simple option and I love it as I play at low volume at home. However my humbucker style guitars get dark at low volumes. Thanks for the great video and advice, - New Subscriber !!
I did the Duncan mod on my Fender Strat, with the same values as you suggested. It performs as it is supposed to, although I will have to experiment because I want it to clean up faster. When I roll the volume all the way back to 2 it jumps back to full volume. I did put a new CTS pot in, but was wondering if that was normal, or I might have a faulty pot or connection.
Hey Clay... interesting... Not sure why your pot is jumping back to full vol. My suggestion is to recheck all your connections and if they all check out - try swapping the pot out. Is it a high quality CTS or your run of the mill standard CTS pot? There is a difference in quality and you might have a bad one. You could try cleaning it too with DeOxit - maybe something is gunked up in it. Don
quick question. when i do the dunc bleed, i lose the high output on my neck. which is a dunc lil59. I have used a push pull to make an on off happen, but that totally changes my tone. was thinking i should solder leads on the vol so i can just plug it in when needed, but thats a pain lol. any help would be apreciated. thanks in advance. Joe
Thanks for the post. I have a Tele Deluxe Style guitar with P-90 like single coils (master volume, master tone). I had a Duncan Treble bleed circuit put in, and I feel like it’s too harsh? Especially with certain effects. I end up rolling off the tone when I turn down now. I feel like I still want a treble bleed on the guitar...? Which one of these three is the least dramatic, but still keeps the high end in place?
Hi! Similar experience here, I have a jazzmaster type with lollar p90s and 500k pots and I just had a treble bleed installed. The tech put and orange drop 0,001 capacitor and a 150k resistor. Even with the volume at max I feel like the sound has brightened up, a bit too much
hi, nice explaination ! question though, as there is still a path between the 2 lugs, I guess that in the Duncan version the treble freq still pass when volume is at minimum, therefore never zero ?
Dear mr. Breja toneworks, can you tell me what kind of resistence do i have to use for a treble bleed with a capacitor of 5 , a capacitor of 6 and a capacitor of 22, for a Kinman system. Thanks a lot.
To everyone watching this, the Freeway website has a diagram on this setup without the on off switch for a treble bleed, but you can just do that seperately and add it in
I'm mainly a humbucker guy and I've noticed that with some of my pickups and wiring my amps will clean up really nicely and evenly as I turn the volume pot down while others do almost nothing and then just go all the way off. I have other pots where they get really dark as I roll it off so I can see a treble bleed working for that. What should I be looking for if I want a nice dynamic and smooth volume taper/clean up in a volume pot while still sounding full when on 10?
You can try replacing your Volume Pots (which most likely are AUDIO Taper) with Linear Taper pots. They get wired exactly the same way - they just help smooth out the taper of the volume. Treble Bleeds tend to be pickup dependent. I have some HBs that need them and others that don't. Not sure why that is - its just what I hear as I'm playing. The TB is easy enough to do and can certainly be removed if you don't like it's effects. I'd start with the pots. Don
I think on my guitar the tone is wired to the input of the volume, not the output. Does that mean the tone is applied before the volume so it is not affected? I don't seem to lose treble when I roll down the volume, but I do hear more bass when I increase volume.
Just did this mod (Duncan style) on my Mexican strat with a .0015uf sprague orange drop and 150k resistor; loving the tone I’m getting post-mod. Install video on my channel. 🎸
Thank you just found you and subscribed... My question is component related...what if anything is the difference between using a Ceramic, Orange Drop, Oil and Paper capacitor. What if anything will any of them do differently in the circuit? When I rewired my LP I was looking for a 50's kind of sound and went with a pre-wired pot and capacitor kit with oil caps...Now I'm looking at a Tele with not a lot of room and want the best solution that will fit. I don't mind paying for quality components knowing that when you use quality you rarely have to do the job again. Thank you!!!
+Joe Krol Size is an issue with Caps. Some of the PIO ones are hard to fit in cavities. I know there's a lot of debate as to can anyone tell the difference between a PIO, Mylar (Orange Drop) or Ceramic. I like PIOs with Humbuckers and SCs personally. On all my dual HB guitars I only use PIOs. On my strats and teles - it's a mix of PIO and Orange Drops. I only user Ceramic on vintage/period correct strats. All will do the same thing to your tone - its just that some people will hear subtle (SUBTLE) differences in frequency response from the different materials. To my ears, PIO sound warmer and the others are a bit more bright but the next guy might not hear anything any difference. So - bottom line, get a Cap the fits (literally) you cavity. It's the VALUE of the cap that's the most important. It ranged from .015uF to .022uF to .047uF all the way to .1uF. It's totally personal preference on the value as to how much treble frequencies it will remove. So - to answer your question... my opinion on a Tele would be a .022uF PIO cap.
I have a stratocaster with RA5 EMG active pickups and my bridge in this series has no tone adjustment for that position of the 5 way switch. Tone control knobs only work for the other 4 positions for some reason they made it. It's the wireless set by the way. Is there something I can do to have that stopped from being so bright? I never even use that position on the guitar because its a little too bright for my taste. The other 4 positions are awesome sounding though. I was wondering if I could put in some kid of switch mod or something to change it?
What would you recommend as a good starting point for a strat? For what it's worth, my tele keeps it's treble as I roll it off and I think it sounds great.
Starting point as in... ? component values? or even if you should do the mod? The values I have in this video are the ones (I use the Duncan version) that I have installed in my personal guitars so you could I guess start with those values and let your ears guide you.
Hi, i have a humbucker pick up on my Tele neck which is rather dark sounding when it's turned below 4 on the volume knob. I have individual volume pot set up for the neck and bridge, with no tone control. Would it be a good idea to add the "simple" treble bleed for the neck pick up? What is your advice? Thanks in advance.
Hey Mackie... First Step - check the value of your Pots - make sure they're as close to if not higher than 500K. If much lower - replace. Goes for all pots. 2nd Step - yes, the treble bleed will help. I can't say it will fully cure the issue but you should see an improvement. Don
