Trek Gamble with New Madone & Exciting Gear from Eurobike | The NERO Show Ep. 90 

2h! the longer the better

Eurobike? Jesse's new bike? 2h? What a way to start the weekend!

This is what happened. There is nothing bogus about it or anything espcially cleaver. 1. Treks bottom line wasn't good enough after the Covid highs and the management started a cost saving program. 2. Cutting SKUs is a good way of increasing margins (google Trek internal memo SKU). 3. R&D team got a task to develop an all-arounder so that they could streamline the portfolio, thus the "new Madone". 4. Enter the poor marketing team that got assigned the task to spin this as improvement for the consumer even though the whole case is 100% about cutting costs for Trek and their partners.

Can’t wait until we eventually get a 24 hour pod from the Nero fellahs

It was nice meeting you, Chris. 😊

“Nobody cares about aerodynamics at 200 watts...” Oof! That cut deep, Jesse. Deep! 🫣😂

Now from ACROSS THE GLOBE! The #1 cycling podcast, the only podcast that holds its speed and has a comfortable compliance to its stiffness!

2 hour episode, midnight drop, watching while the TDF time trial! Let’s gooooo 😎😎😎

With the crosswinds, don't forget to factor in the frame catching wind as well.

Love the show, love the honesty and backed up views. Long story short some 30 years ago, yes before the days of mobiles and Insta. I was speaking to a Pro Motocrosser who had just gotten back from Japan and the Yamaha factory and he said the development was always 7 years ahead, even that long ago. I’m with Chris, give it to us now.

Kudos for the fantastic quality of the remote recording 👍🏻

There is team in Tour of Qinghai race starting tomorrow using Ltwoo on a Look bike...

Funny that the same year they announce they will cut their line-up for financial reason, it's suddenly better to make an aero/lightweight hybrid rather than two seperate bikes.

Chris, having seen your Eurobike cameos on other channels, I can only say I feel your pain. Trade shows are not a fun place to be, I did E3 a long time ago, and even with free reign to do what I liked, the only parts I really enjoyed were the evening events outside the main show. Hope you found some good people and conversations amongst it all!

next week I want a 3h podcast that I can listen to when climbing Pico del Veleta in southern Spain. Nah kidding, I love listening to the quiet early morning to much to overlay it with something else. Even your show :-)

“There’s no shiny objects in Hall 9” 🤣 Quote of the Vid

Jesse needs some colour in that bedroom. Maybe a Nero-patterned feature wall?

I was about to sleep, but Nero show dropped. Guess sleep is 2 hours delayed

The aero madone with isoflow cut out looked awesome, but the new slender madone doesn't look good.

Jesse looks quite under the weather, get a rest mate. Keen to hear more about the Tavelo bike tests.

28s are faster than 30s at high speeds and especially up hills. for a higher average speed on endurance rides go with 30s. bikes could be coming with 28s instead of wider because of claimed weight.

looks like Jonas' S5 last year at the tour came in at 7.1kg with old sram red and 1x, so I could believe with the new red setup it could get to 6.8 or really close. Fully potential for Chris to get the S5 down to 6.8, but it would be a load of new parts lol. Rotors, groupset, wheels, saddle, pedals and seat post.

Nice seeing the SEKA bar tape wrapped top to bottom. Not enough people do it, but it looks so much cleaner than bottom to top and needing finishing tape.

Love you guys. Congrats on the new bike Jesse!

Keep them coming, love it

I went with the 40/45 WRS Works, windy round here at times, and was worried with deep wheels.

Great talk, love the discussion about Trek and Classified. Good insight into bike industry. 😎

Chris, I found your comment about Classified interesting when you mentioned the vibe you felt coming from them. I've been saying this for a long time now. Classified is not going to be around at some point. It's a niche product that costs a lot to buy in to and no one knows the durability exactly, plus a few other downsides with cassettes and wheels etc. Probably a good thing they partnered with TRP but I still don't think this company can be profitable enough to sustain it. It cost well over $3000 US to buy before they collaborated with TRP so I imagine now being more of a groupset offering it will be in the realm and up there with Campagnolo's Record electronic groupset. And most people don't want that.

47:50 I have a feeling Shimano's approach is just very Japanese - iterate, iterate, iterate to reach perfection instead of revolutionary changes that might have some flaws.

I also have a TCR so it's very interesting to hear the comparisons of the TCR and Arow. Thank you. Although - since you're going from rim break and narrow tires to disc and wide - that change alone makes a HUGE difference. I've ridden both 25c and 30/32c tires on my TCR (both tubeless) and that is a huge improvement in ride feel The bottom bracket of the Tavelo concerns me. I live somewhere with road conditions that destroy BB bearings quickly so I really want a good and easily serviceable system. (i really want a good threaded bb system so I can change the bearings myself and not rely on mechanics who I don't fully trust)

Heartbreaking to have to skip all the Eurobike spoilers because I’ve got tickets for Sunday 🤣🤣

Trek releases most boring bike ever, asked to leave the pro peloton

Seems a bit contradictory on the Madone discussion in 2 ways: 1) Chris talks about how the bike brands already know whats coming up for 2030. Maybe not exactly that far in advance, but new frame design and testing and tooling prep takes years. Can not be a SKU-related design from Trek by your own logic that they planned this bike years ago, well before the internal memo to make cuts. However, it fully could have been designed as the next Emonda or Madone, then cutting the other model as a SKU decision. But even if the brand wasn't looking to cut SKUs, this was the bike we would have had at this moment in time, under one of those model names. 2) Just discussed that Jonas is climbing on an S5 aero bike where they found a way to get the weight down to the UCI min 6.8kg. If this new Madone shed enough weight that they can get it to 6.8 for the pro tour, then the Emonda serves no purpose any more. If they actually have one that is 7kg, then just putting climbing wheels on it would get you to 6.8. From a consumer perspective, it was never the bike regular casual riders should have been buying anyway, as it was slower than the outgoing Madone in almost all conditions unless you were only doing a mountain stage above 5-6% grade, and not descending down the other side. Source: bikerumor.com/aerodynamics-vs-weight-whats-more-important-tipping-point-pro-amateur-cyclists/ Trek provided some of their own data on testing Madone vs Emonda for this article too. However, I do agree with you on the aero claims. I bet it'll be a couple watts slower than the outgoing frame, which was already not among the top performers anyway. Trek likes to talk up the Isospeed thing, but unless its providing some serious compliance/comfort, it sure doesn't seem to be providing any aero benefit.

Had a 2hr 45 min turbo session.😮‍💨 Logged onto RU-vid.🧐 Seen this 2hr long life saver!🤩

Preorder price of DARE VA-AFO frameset limited edition in Taiwan is 179000 NTD (~5500USD). For comparison, MSRP of Giant Propel Advanced SL frameset is only 108000 NTD (~3300 USD). TBH, price tag of DARE VA-AFO is pretty bold but it is a good thing that there is no price difference between Taiwan and other markets.

2hr long = saved to watch on TdF rest day

So now that Jesse has disc brakes on his special build, Chris says he's not interested in hearing about his brakes. 😀

I am all in on the new no-nonsense aero bikes 🔥 They make so much more sense when you wanna go fast compared to a stupid lightweight noodle

chris was so hyped in this episode

@nerocoaching you mentioned the rear shifting is not super smooth because of 3 different brands, L-Twoo derailleur, Incolor cassette and Shimano chain. How would you solve this problem while sticking to the L-Twoo groupset? What chain / cassette would you use?

Only just found out that the Emonda, Domane and Madone are all named after the Madone - the climb Lance would test on before the Tour. Emonda and Domane are just Madone scrambled differently.

Jesse, for your tyre pressure accuracy, get yourself a Fumpa Gauge. It's an Australian designed and made product as well... 😎

Chris, can you ask bike manufacturers why still a lot of them are developing bikes with the BB86 standard although according to a lot of mechanics this type of bottom bracket doesn't work well with SRAM dub?

Re the Dare frameset price…may need to clarify whether the USD 5,500 price is ex-works Taiwan or in US incl. duty/tarrifs. Seems pretty high.

The 2 frames from Seka have been available through a dealer in Malaysia for quite a while already...

Enjoy you podcasts❤

Ok for Aero bike to replace a 2019 TCR Adv SL Rim brake..... What you going to switch to, Propel, Madone s gen 7, Gen 8, Van Rysel, Merida reacto?

About the L-Twoo rear d shifting, I am curious to know if the shifting gets crisper if Jesse swaps out the cassette to a Shimano 12 speed hyperglide cassette. I have used cassettes from China and experienced the same "less than ideal" shifting. It shifted and stayed, but it felt too crunchy for me and was incredibly annoying. Problem solved when I used the 12s shimano chain with a 12s shimano cassette.

2 hours, oh boyyyyy!!!!

Need to get a nice budget ‘wheeltwooooo’ for my next errand running bike 😂

RE: tire widths. BikeRadar was able to go over Pogacar's TdF Colnago and measured his tire widths. Result? 32.6 rear and 33.2 front 😂 So 28 is being ditched by even the best cyclists!

Cycling industry is like the computer industry and we always got trickle fed tech that was already obsolete.

Great episode

The gen8 Madone XL reach and stack isn't that far away from the latest Defy XL dimensions, so the madone ticks 3 boxes, endurance, climbing and aero 😁

I walked into a trek store and couldn't justify $7000 for a bike so walked back out

You cannot 3D print a piano - because there is tension in the system and that is critically important. The same applies to rims and hubs.

The Scott Addict (Endurance) comes with 32mm Schwalbe Tires.

That would be crazy if Chris would find a moment to visit the Kross S.A. (at hall 9.0, stand C18a) - the biggest Polish bike brand. They recently released their new aluminium Gen 2 gravel bikes (Esker 2.0/5.0/6.0 2024) and carbon ones (Esker RS 1.0/2.0/3.0). There should also be an announced carbon road bike - Vento 8.0. All of these framesets (both alu and carbon) are made in Poland. From the East-Europian standpoint, they represent good value. I wonder how it looks in the Aussie's eyes. BTW, I'm not their employee, just a curious Polish guy. On the premium side, there's also a Rondo boot. And on the local market followers side - Romet (not worth the time). Cheers! Adam

That DARE aero bike is 🔥

Love that i can watch in „window mode“

As we all know the Trek may have spun marketing, but, as we all know that it takes 2-3 years to redo a bike like that. So the dropping of sku's just happened to be at the same time as the bike markets are crashing..

The irony of lamenting the advanced preparation of the "2030 product line" while the consumer is sold soon to be obsolete stuff, then going on to complain about the trek madone for it allegedly being "rushed too market" has not escaped. Apparently, manufacturers will be damned by the commentariat regardless? 🤔

I agree, they do have several future iterations of their products ready to go and building marketing campaigns for them for the next 3 to 5 years. I can attest to this for working in the golf industry. TaylorMade would do this very such thing with their drivers in irons. They had the heads under lock and key in as the years ticked away. They released product by product and then continuing developing more 3 to 4-years down the road.

finally, what a long week

I've got Reserve 40/44's with 31-33mm extrenal rims my 28mm's inflate to 31.5mm. So technicaly I'm riding 31mm's

madone analysis at the end was so good. that is your guys' bread and butter - metanalysis

Hey Chris, any updates on your Xoss HR monitor?

Depending on where the Dare bike started.... if it was a super slow 220w or 215w or decent 210w to start with, 7% faster is approximately 15w regardless. That's anywhere from 195-205, which means either it's tied with the Aeroad, tied with the Simplon Pride or EVEN FASTER. My guess is it's Simplon Pride level... like 198w.

From the UK 🇬🇧🖖

I’m riding Seka Exceed rdc. Paid 1650 usd for bike and handlebar in China. Great bike.

I have the same issue Jesse had (no flat transition from bar to shifter) with Shimano (PRO) bars and Dura Ace brifters, unfortunately.

Jesse, get a cheap BBB tyre pressure gauge. Most on pump pressure are not that accurate anyway

Who presses one side and then tries to thread it? 😂 You should thread it first and whilst tightening it, it presses itself in. At least how I do it and it works great. Slap in some NTN bearings and you are good to go.

I'm sure part of the saving on Jonans bike is in the Frame Carbon layup

surely the rear stays are strenghtened to accomidate disc brakes and torque from the hub? isnt it almost the perfect place for the hub to be transferring loads?

According to my local dealer, Domane is the best selling road Trek by far, followed by the Checkpoint . Emonda was way down the list behind the Madone. Most people wanted the Endurance bike, with the crit/ fast group ride guys getting Madones. Emonda people were the exception

The tyre width must surely be too wide for those rims? Are they not way wider than the rim, which reduces aero? I have the 55/50 CRW Wheels and I use 28mm tyres and they are borderline too wide for the rim.....

Bastion did not do any marketing but they charge a bucket load amount. The same 3d printed lug construction you can get from American builders or even Colossi starts to make similar structure structures.

I have never believed any of the marketing speak of any of the brands. The aero thing was a huge money grab.

Boys if you actually care about your tire pressures you need to get a digital gauge. I don't know why this is but the gauge on pumps is almost never right. I work at a shop, we have a park tools compressed air system and the gauge is wrong, I have a lezyne pump and the gauge is wrong, I have a Topeak pump and the gauge is wrong, I have a pump that I loved from amazon but the gauge was wrong. For the sake of consistency, get a digital gauge of some sort. You'll be shocked at the pressures you've previously been unknowingly running. I hate to have to buy another thing especially as frothy as a digital gauge, but if you care about your tire pressures it's a necessary evil. Bonus: You can sleep easier knowing you've NEVER even come close to the 73 PSI required to blow a tire off of a hookless rim 🤣🤣

Jesse Coyle! I did some digging for you to squeeze out a few extra watts, but you may not like the idea. I reached out to the support team at Panda Podium regarding your wheelset. The narrowest section of your front wheel is at the actual hook/lip, which measures 31.3 mm. While the rim does bow to 34 mm shortly afterward, the representative at Panda Podium informed me that in order to conform to the rule of 105, in which the wheel is 105% of the tire width in order to maximally attach airflow at yaw, the tire size would need to be with respect to 31.3, not 34. In other words, your 32 mm front tire (as measured) is wider than the rim. A 28 mm front tire would likely measure 30 mm and would be more aerodynamic at 42 kph, but it would also be pushing the limits of what is safe to mount on a 25 mm internal rim width. It would also put you back on 28s, which would ruin the whole point of your experiment. By comparison, the Rival Rapide CLX II front wheel is 21mm internal, 34mm external without the curved hook on the lip, and maintains the rule of 105 with a 30 and 32 mm tire due to the narrower inner width and wider external. Maybe Chris can ask Hambini for his opinion on the tapered lip at his next lunch chat.

If you lived in Ballarat, you'd get excited about a new firmware too Chris 🤣

Jessie is your tavelo the 7800 or T1100 Version?

Wow 2 hours, keep em coming! gift shear > gear shift 😅

So, you've been running your bike's tire pressure wrong all these years? Just saying, the electronic pump might not be that accurate as well. I suggest you get a dedicated tire pressure gauge from Topeak.

The industry has a pace of change to it and that pace is set by manufacturers but also sometimes by marketing departments drip feeding us and trying to keep our interest. Consumers are able to test far more tire widths and are further ahead with what works best for the average Joe on average roads.

Why did the speed blow your mind? It's an aero all rounder, and the TCR is basically a round tubes bike. The tcr is likely 230w in tour test.

My 2020 trek Emonda SL was 9kg. I threw away all bontrager shit and upgrade to 11 speed Di2. The bike for an SL went down to 7.3kg with pedals. My new 2024 Emonda SLR frame is only 730g painted. This time I just purchased the frame, cos I didn’t want to go through the bullshit to lighten the bike. What I’m saying is the frame is light. It’s just the Bontrager components are what lets the brand down.

2hrs hell yeah!

200 watts is probably the best number to test at for aero for the majority of road riders. It’s a smart move to test this. Realistic to the greatest majority.

But Jesse, how does it hold its speed?

Longer! Yippie

I’d love to see you guys ride the Madone 7 and 8 and give feedback

YES its sooo long

Jesse you just accidentally proved to yourself that low pressure can be freaking fast and it's very comfortable

I ride the 55/50 CRW Wheels and the front wheel is not good in any wind.

I don't really get the appeal of the TCR. It's good value, good bike but its so boring. It's so lazy in the turns at speed and it is nowhere nearly as snappy as the SL7. The rim break TCR feels snappy cause the frontend is so light so you're doing wheelies at 400w, but the recent TCR is just a sloth with an eating disorder.

With the 3d printed hub, I am pretty sure that they have extra material and it will then get machined to tolerance. Hambini has a habit of criticizing things he has not examined or tested. I was wondering how they handle the machining myself.

Tell you what the colourway of JCs bike looked rubbish on the website TBH but in real life (video via youtube) looks amazing

If/when that DARE bike shows up on a website with direct shipment to the US, it won't be $5,500. It will be less than $3,000. I would be willing to bet on that. And being a cyclist in the U.S. just sucks. I have no idea why politicians think that making our hobby extremely expensive by taxing the hell out of it is helpful to anyone. Our country used to be the place to buy anything you wanted in the world for less. Now it's where you can't get half of what you want and the other half costs more here than anywhere else.