THE premier place for Insider Trek news. Drexler is the best, love his passion for the lore, and the rapport he has with you guys is great. Hope to see more of him in the future! Great job guys! *"SLEEK AND RAD!"*
Star Trek gave us the idea of TV show canon (over continuity - as if it was a religious text) and the concept of the Mary Sue. Thanks Star Trek !! (For providing the tools to attack your rival franchise).
Not in the slightest. Paramount CBS could create a whole new science fiction show if they so desire, or one placed after Voyager. What they have created is *neither Canon nor continuity.* And despite their insistence on saying it is PRIME and then saying maybe "alternate Prime"... just create your whole new thing, and let Star Trek be Star Trek. I'm *not* saying everything has to be TOS, let me make that crystal clear. But there are other eras or other ships in existing eras where you can make a great show without *_stomping on the past and grinding it into the dirt with your heel._*
90 Lancaster true, Trek fans were one of the first show audiences to care enough about it to keep track and feel some protectiveness over people and stories they love. But how did they invent the Mary Sue? It seems like Dorothy was pretty much a Mary Sue and Wizard of Oz and that was 1939... Sincerely curious about your point of view when it comes to that point. Also, for forever there were only the 3 Star Wars movies, by the time the prequels came along there already were 9 Star Trek movies and four different TV series with hundreds of episodes. So I think Star Wars Canon would have been a thing inevitably as the lore evolved and grew. Always respect your well-reasoned and kindly expressed opinions!
I always thought that First Contact changed history when they mention their ship “The Enterprise” and then Z.C. added the name to the Warp 5 project, so the NX-01 was most likely named something else in the original timeline before First Contact and that is why the NX wasn’t on the Wall of Enterprises on the Next Generation. That’s just my theory.
Dauntless would be most likely. Even thou the "Dauntless" encountered by Voyager was a fake, nobody batted an eye at the registry NX-01-A, so the fake Dauntless was likely named "in honor of" the original NX-01 Dauntless.
acidtwin agreed, there is a very casual friendliness among these guys that is very entertaining to watch. Glad to have this access to Incredible Minds that designed Star Trek! Great job guys!
I just want to point something out. Just because you have an advanced technology, doesn't necessarily mean that technology is suitable or capable of being integrated into your fleet. Holograms may well have been around for decades by the time of TOS but you don't see them because there is no need for them on the ship. Flat screen computer interfaces might be everywhere on Earth but are too complex a technology to fix when you're a hundred light years from the nearest Starbase. We shouldn't preclude any technology from being in the Star Trek universe simply on the basis that we never saw it.
That's a good point. We have super advanced CPUs that wipe the floor with what we send into space, because CPUs for space have to be radiation hardened, which limits how powerful you can make them. One of the Voyager space probes uses the same CPU as the PS1 for example.
I think Doug and the rest of the Enterprise crew did a great job designing the 22nd century, its just a shame we didn't get to see more of it. Although I was rewatching Enterprise and for pre Federation space it seems a bit safe, was there any plans to make the show more of a wild west?
I remember when they unveiled the NX-01 and fans rabidly attacked doug drexler and others over the NX design. Now the design is appreciated and loved by fans. How times have changed...
I like ENT especially first season because they had limitations. Not the fastest or the most powerful ship. No experience out there and no big fleet. Dependence on other planets' ship designs than only Earth's saucer-and-nacelle ships. And still succeed to make a difference. A good addition to Star Trek history.
I like to think of Star Trek as a time capsule. Each series made doesn't just push the franchise forward, but it also serves as a monument to the time in which it was filmed. Star Trek was made in the 60s and is always going to have that retro-60s charm. When they did episodes like "Trials and Tribble-ations" they weren't just acknowledging visual continuity, they were having fun recreating the world of the 1960s at the same time. I always liken this idea to Tom Paris playing Captain Proton on the holodeck. "Take a look around you. This is how the twentieth century saw the future. We are studying sociology." TNG is starting to get older now and it's 80s visuals are going to age along with it. I expect someday a new Star Trek will be made where they travel back in time to the 24th century and the production crew spends their time admiring the 80s (2360s) visuals just like Jadzia admiring the 60s (2260s) design aesthetic on DS9. The same thing will happen to the more 90s like Voyager or the early 2000s Enterprise series. They're time capsules for the era as much as they are continuity. That's why I agree with Doug Drexler here. A show like Discovery SHOULD have been a post-Voyager series. There was no reason to do a prequel if they had zero intention of being faithful to the era they chose to be in. They could have had a blast playing around with post-Voyager technology and then maybe someday done an episode where they go back to TOS or TNG and have fun playing around in the 60s and 80s. Instead they almost seemed embarrassed by the idea of being faithful to a retro-futuristic 60s universe. Best way to fix Discovery? Make it a parallel universe. Honestly, I don't hate on the Kelvin Timeline because they openly admitted that they were an alternate universe. Nero's incursion was traumatic and made Starfleet go back to the drawing board and go in a different direction with their designs. It honestly makes sense to me. If they acknowledge Discovery is a parallel universe existing side by side the Prime and Kelvin Universe in a larger Star Trek multiverse, then I can forgive it and accept it for what it is. As of now I will never accept Discovery as existing in the same universe as TOS. It just doesn't work.
NihilusShadow Both universes could coexist quite well. Comic books and more have been doing it right for so long. As long as it is recognized. If they were smart they would do two (technically 3 counting the movies) shows. One in the more traditional style (Orville is sitting in that seat nicely but a Trek show would be nice too) and a darker toned show like Discovery. I think they would please both parties.
If you make a Star Trek episode or series in the TOS era you are making an historical drama, which is why it should fit in with the original aesthetic and story continuity. NihilusShadow is right when he points out that the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations" is a prime example of this type of historical continuity. As far as Discovery is concerned, I see it as a reboot, and so I no longer worry about continuity. For me it just isn't a part of the TOS/TNG Trek universe; instead, it is its own thing.
Seeing Discovery as it's own thing is ok. I just wish the producers of Discovery would do the same and stop trying to force this thing to connect when it clearly doesn't. The universe is like a giant puzzle and Discovery is a piece that doesn't fit, but the producers are hammering away trying to make it fit. They're just gonna ruin it.
Doug Drexler is an amazing guy and should have been/worked on DSC(STD) But the bloody suits have no idea about the fans and what Star Trek means to us (Thank you Les Moonves for Messing up our Star Trek)
Which they should have done by making a post-Voyager series. Every series made post-TOS was a modern series, but they still remained faithful to TOS' 60s visuals whenever they referenced it. Discovery could have been the same by being a modern series set post-Voyager, but still acknowledging Trek's history.
Bollocks. Drexler would have had the same brief as any other designer. the same restrictions, wouldn't have mattered who is hired, if the brief states change, change it is!
-Harve Bennett- Rob Burnett seems to think that Discovery has only pissed off a goodly section of the existing fandom and not really managed to succeed in doing what it was intended to do - make new fans. At least that is what he thinks. Perhaps they might actually know what kinda show Disco is going to be by season 3 (if it ever makes it to season 3). But the comments being made about it seem to be mainly coming from sources that already were prepared to Talk about Star Wars anyway. Perhaps it's a bit like Halo in that respect it's Ghettoised it's own fandom by locking new people out and yet also annoying a lot of existing fans too.
err Harve passed away in 2015? I follow Larry Nemecek, so he is actively engaged with fandom at different levels, in the conventions and of course observing trends on the internet. And offers observations about how Discovery is doing with fandom. Disco has brought in new fans when he asks, what is it about star trek they liked, the response was often about the human condition, the realness of the characters, which is something we were championing for many years, he says although older fans may begrudge this new version of Star Trek, what we championed with the Star Trek of old, seems to permeate through to the new fans. I have also roped someone in to watching this and has then gone on to binge other series in the franchise, loving TNG. Anyhow, I am offering a different perspective.
I can see how the deadalus class ship would have worked well enough, but the studio made the right decision in asking for a saucer section. The saucer section is everything star fleet. The evolving tad pole concept works so well.
I would like to have seen three more seasons of Enterprise. It was just getting really good in season 4. I was looking forward to seeing the Earth-Romulan War. Oh, well!
We were seeing the beginning of the Federation and it was amazing. When they showed Starfleet, Vulcan, Andorian and Tellarite vessels all flying in formation after they learned of the Romulan's impending threat, gives me goosebumps every single time. Season 4 was outstanding and Season 5 would be been incredible.
Pud Lord bloody Genius of visual digital and computer design; I'm always left it awe and would give anything to be able to create things like that! My art is like stick figures in comparison! LOL
Always love hearing from Doug... The NX-01 is one of my favorite designs. Second only to the TOS Connie. And I love getting these insights into its creation.
I wish Doug could make an immediate sequel to Enterprise during the Romulan War, when the refit NX-Class ships were coming out. It would be cool to see the Enterprise crew as the main characters in the show. With Trip as a secret agent for Section 31 because (he's not dead).
I think the NX is a better looking ship than TOS. The ship is more compact and seems like a stronger hull configuration. The TOS controls and displays were really unrealistic in every way. All you have is a panel of colored lights that move and blink. Getting information from such displays would require a tremendous amount of training. More than the average person could handle.
I've got this thing about pre-TOS and it goes like this: The UESPA and the UESN never quite took to the early Starfleet and their "fancy flyng saucers."
Hi Doug, exactly my argument with Discovery when they could have gone anywhere in the timeline... great vid guys, I know why I do Patreon... more please !
I love the TOS designs and the TNG/DS9/VOY designs. But out of all of them, there is something special about the ENT designs to me. They feel closer to what we have today. The TOS, TNG and the others are all very based on “this is very advanced future tech”. Enterprise had a very grounded feeling to it that I liked. It looked futuristic, but not by a lot. Kind of like the reboot Battlestar Galactica vs the TOS Galactica. Plus Enterprise holds a place in my heart, since it was the first Trek I watched regularly. Though my favorite is DS9, with TOS and TNG tied at second.
I really like his NX Refit though think I prefer Star Trek Online's evolution of the secondary hull. The Pioneer class is like a Cage era version of the original NX but with a pod just stuck on the bottom of the saucer. That pod conceivably grew larger and larger in subsequent designs until eventually becoming the full Star Drive section with the nacelles attached to it.
re: The thumbnail How did you find a picture of Drexler where he wasn't smiling? The only time I've seen him not smiling is when he was painting the Voyager model.
Given the crew size of 80 people, I don't think a sphere would make sense. To me, that says there's a big crew. Regarding Trek tech in general, whenever it takes place in the future, whether it's the 22nd, 23rd, or 24th centuries, it must conform to real-world future technology as well as whatever is shown in Trek. So, even if the show takes place in the 25th century, Trek's past would necessarily have different technology than what's already been depicted in TOS. If this was Star Wars it would be different. That tech has nothing to do with our galaxy and does not derive from Earth. Besides, even there, they show that before the Clone Wars, they had more advanced, cleaner looking tech because they hadn't suffered the Clone and Star Wars yet.
To be fair to the Abrams films, they do take place in an entirely different reality, so they're not stepping on the continuity like Discovery is. It's more of a pass (though not a complete pass)
Discovery is a reboot, and that's true even if CBS won't admit it to be so, which means that continuity within the TOS /TNG universe is maintained. For me Discovery is a separate entity that exists in its own universe, and I will watch it and enjoy it for what it is. Sure I prefer the TOS/TNG Trek universe, but Discovery is okay by me.
Question for Doug Drexler next time you see him. Star Fleet ships have a Saucer and secondary hull. Why not Star Fleet in secret or openly building Combat purposed saucer sections? Something that Star Fleet pulls out when the threat looms and stows away to be in line with the charter and intent of the formation of Star Fleet. Leaving the labs and other things out, building in more automation, and redundant systems. Moving the Bridge down a few decks and into a armored shell, for example.
Hey commander o7 Im designing my own ships and like to use Trekyards as some kind of databank. watchead every video several times and must say its pretty cool stuff u´re doing and always fun to watch. (even when the captain sometimes seems to give a f.... :) ) But there is only one little thing..... Could you put all the videos about ships in one playlist like the fleetyards stuff? That would really help. everything else is great...keep up with the good work.
I loved the NX ship! I think I would rather have that than the D series! The story line started to get stupid after season one, but other than that, I really liked it. Heck, I even liked the lead in music, "It's been a long time", which kind of sets the long road they have ahead in the story line. I liked how they had to discover new ways of doing things, which later proved to be standard procedures.
Doug is forgetting that Trek built in a period of turmoil before the Federation and Trek technology comes around. That insulates the various series from the crazy tech that seems to be coming around the corner.
In the StarTrek Universe, The Third World War happened and the eugenics war as well. So technology would be greatly stunted relative to where we are now. So creation of warp drive is what re-sparked the second industrial/technological revolution. So the whole argument of why Trek is not more advanced is answered.
The colony ship Conestoga's engines were built by Yoyodyne Propulsions? Didn't expect a shoutout for the movie The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across The Eighth Dimension in an episode of Star Trek! Did John Bigbootie design the warp engines? Or was it John Smallberries? I've always hated the "ringship" Enterprise design. It doesn't fit into Star Trek at all - mainly because it wasn't designed for Trek, it was something Jeffries had designed years before and was unrelated. It got thrown into the fan-made Technical Manual, later getting blessed by CBS and ended up on the back wall of historical Enterprise ships for The Motion Picture when they had an empty slot to fill. The NX-01 is such a better, more realistic design; mainly because the ring ship looks like it could only hold a handful of people.
Doug is 100% correct. If Discovery had been set in the 26th century and the spore-drive sent back in time to the TOS era, we would have forgiven the clash of technology and design style. It could have been a show about jumping to different galaxies or centuries. Exploring the distant past, the possible future, etc. With that premise, we could even forgive many things, from the poor writing to the mirror universe.
I enjoyed Enterprise. I also like the design of the NX class ship, but would also have been happy with a Daedalus style ball and main hull design. That would have been awesome. I think that Doug should have been allowed to do it. BTW the way to make the show more consistent with TOS canon would have been to have armed the NX and her crew with laser weapons, and kept the older style (presumably nuclear) torpedoes throughout the show, which would have fitted in with comments about the Romulan war and older tech made during that show. However, at least Enterprise had a production team that cared about the fans and canon, and kept it as consistent as they could, unlike STD. Again, unlike STF they made a show I enjoyed, with characters I cared about and a beautiful looking hero ship (I wish we got to se the NX refit in screen!).
5:09 Now that would be amazing. It wouldn’t even have to be the main ship. Just showing us an underfunded Solar Fleet or UESPA full of old rustbuckets as a display of human tenacity. Why wasn’t this at least a background ship?
There is very Little "Star Trek" in Babylon 5 - unless one counts annoying diplomats. Like I never once recall seeing Deleen point a ray gun at someone. The large Space battles make it often seen as a Child of Star Wars (as was both Battlestar Galacticas) & Space Above and Beyond. SG1 & Atlantis were a tiny bit Star Trek like at times I guess. Though Bridges dropping beams on someone happens a lot and consoles are known to explode - so I guess there is that in common.
Who's to say that Bryce Shumar thought little of the flying Deltas and Saucers? Who's to say Bryce Shumar and Johnathon Archer served the same fleet? Given what Q told us about 22nd century Earth, it was still a chaotic mess in Archer's time.
Hi Doug, continuity is the essential key. But to bring this together with all the other important stuff to get a really successful show at the end, is the challenge. In other words, you did a really good job. Thanx. I watched ST ENT again over the last weeks and I love this show, particular all episodes were the focus is on the amazing ship, called Enterprise.
If you want to be a tease about it then potentially the Sailing ship, World War II Aircraft carrier, space shuttle, Ring Ship, Actual Enterprise C or the prototype and NX-01 are all in the corridor that leads to the conference lounge and not in the same case or wall as seen in The D or E that lacks them.
No worries - it's an excuse though I'd say that the other "Enterprises" are elsewhere it's what the Stage 9 Enterprise D recreation does and I thought it was a good idea.
The thing abut the Trek universe's tech is that they had some 2 or 3 Earth altering wars that halted the development and subsequent evolution of benevolent every day tech which renders their tech clunkier by default.
I think in part the question of whether UIs will radically change in the future is really up for debate. I suspect one can make the argument that technology in certain fields will stagnate because most of the current trends in technology are largely (and have been really since the very beginning of civilization) is driven by demand. Rarely do you get technology that creates its own demand. Like electricity didn't lead to electronics. In fact, the majority of uses for electricity was lighting and then when folks realized you could do communications then telegraphs (and eventually telephones) appeared. Like even Alan Turing's arguments about the general utility of computers was lost on people (even his mentor Alonzo Church had a hard time following him). It took decades for folks to realize what you really could do with electronics which gave us computers we use today in various forms. Technological progression is rarely linear and more often things can degrade (when we went from telegraph to telephone it wasn't objectively an improvement as you could easily transmit more data on telegraph networks but people naturally liked conversational/audible communication more so that's where technology went).
+19:20 Does the NX set look "Generic Sci Fi" is what Samuel was tactfully trying to ask. The answer is - yes - somewhat ; parts of it are very similar to other shows ; though to be fair in many cases some of those shows are ones that came later like The Expanse or Nu BSG. The railings and floor plating on the NX is not unlike some of the less flashy areas of the Andromeda Ascendant. Parts of the interior are similar to SG1 as well. So looked at in a big stew of Sci Fi - yeah it's kinda generic at times. But that is unavoidable really. There are only so many ways to design a cargo container for example. I don't have a huge problem with the NX era as I always have seen it as a second run event that never happened in the 1st run through of a timeline. It's a bit like all the things that were added to Star Trek A & B canon from ST:TAS over time - they didn't exist originally - now they do.
Can you guys please do a Trekyards review the Wednesday on the Klingon D7 Battle Cruiser? Can you guys also do a Trekyards review on the Husnok Warship? Pleassssssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
Such a shame STD messed everything up. Speaking of which, the producers have revealed that Section 31 will be playing a key role in season 2 and the black badges do represent them.
As the main ship - yeah it's a ship that has long since sailed - however as a background vessel absolutely it works - though more as a pre-TOS than a NX-era ship. The idea seems to be they were cheap and quick to build compared to an NX-class so they made a ton of them for the Romulan War.
What Star Trek should do is show different technologies. They should have aliens with totally different tech. The could to HUBs with aliens. I recall all the alien ships and tech. being very similar to federation style and time period. I know it means more money and maybe the artists and costume designers have difficulty breaking away from their own style and I also realize they reuse the sets for different things hoping the audience does not pick up on it.
*The Problem* The Studio aligned it's vision of Trek on the most recent or current popular vision which was TOS-esque (JJ Trek) Star Trek was originally conceived as a future vision. Because the Studio is more concerned with money, views and popularity they missed an important opportunity to FULLY reboot Star Trek, to dispense with the limitation of the current continuity, and recreate Star Trek as a vision our current day future rather than the future as viewed from 1966 which logically is now defunct as a means of carrying what is now popular culture. Imagine a Star Trek where Space X and Blue Origin, Donald Trump and Barack Obama, a potential break up of the European Union and a descending Russia are part of it's history just like it's now part of OUR HISTORY. Imagine references to September 11th 2001, The Fukishima Melt down, the 2004 Earthquake tsunami that killed a quarter of million, the electric car revolution....Imagine a New Star Trek predicting our future like old Trek predicted flat screens, wearable communications, 3D printing, and drones. That's the opportunity CBS missed out on.
Something tells me that wouldn’t be very compelling to watch. I made some videos regarding technologies which are left for Star Trek to predict/use, but what exactly did you have in mind? Star Trek has already covered a lot of stuff like seismic regulators, hovercars and weather control devices.
JJ Trek had a non conventional propulsion Motorcycle in ST2009. Star Trek the Motion Picture had Dick Tracy style wrist coms already. Extruded tech has been implied before in Sci fi but it's so much less advanced that even The NX era tech they'd have no reason to mention it really - they have more advanced methods than 3D printing. and Season One on TNG had a drone attack - not to mention drones are part of the Star Trek table tops franchises and even JJ Trek had Drone weapons on the Starship Vengeance.
I don't like the NX-01 design at all. The aesthetic is fine, especially the interiors, which are among the most beautiful sets ever built for a TV series, but the shapes and functionality of the NX-01 itself are a mess. It's too fussy, too complicated, and looks front-heavy.
Sure, continuity is great, but it also can be a big burden when it comes to updating the looks and the technologies the ships would have compared to what we have now. Especially in the case of Discovery.
I think the point he is making is that if they had just made the show be post the TNG era they could do whatever tech they want and it would be consistent with what is already shown in canon. By making prequels you create a situation where either the prequel doesnt fit or all other Trek doesnt fit.
