You know what’s kinda crazy? You have 2 guys who grew up in different worlds that, at a time, would have declared the other an enemy, now 30-40 later discussing the extreme misconceptions of that time. Makes me wonder who we will talk to 30-40 years from now and what we both will say of today.
Those of us with understanding of things will be discussing the same things we always do. One would be why do people need to state the obvious when it is new found information for them. That would be one thing 😂
I started listening to him when I was 22. I’m about to be 30. I didn’t have much of a father figure and Jordan Peterson quickly became that, on accident. 8 years later, this man has formed who I am today. “Chest out, shoulders back, and clean your room, son!”
8:55 - 11:26 Him talking about his condescending attitude and how the socialist elite justified its position and put itself above the ordinary people by appealing to the intellectual utopian presumption and the inadequacy of the people who do not recognize it and therefore must be controled by them is so chilling, because many of my left leaning professors and fellow students openly display the exact same patterns and mechanisms...
Having lived the first 10 years of my life in the socialist Poland and learning a lot about the communism from my father, I feel it's exactly the same type of anti-human utopia. It's just a new strain of virus, the language has been converted abd updated, but it's the same shit. Many people in Poland see the woke ideology for what it is specifically because we've gone through Soviet-imposed communist rule over Poland.
While what you said is true it's important to understand that the same behavioural patterns are expressed by all ruling parties. The right to rule is something every ruler or aspiring ruler concerns themselves with, be it internally ("this is why I should rule") or externally ("this is why you should accept my rule"). These justifications come in many forms, such as, but not limited to: intellectual, moral, blood line or lineage based, religious, merit based, competence based or through raw power. What do you think we as individuals, a society and as a species should do with this information?
@@L.K.48 You make an important point. I would describe my own political conviction as somewhere between limited government conservatism and advocating for a completely stateless common law society (so basically conservatively motivated anarcho-capitalism). So (also being a German) I absolutely agree with you that this thinking can come from the right as well as the left, and that all power and intentions of politicians should be carefully scrutinized and questioned. But looking at my personal experience and at our current governments and media, I think the current strain of this mind-virus is most prevalent on the technocratic-corporatist-postmodernist-neofeudalist -what-ever-you-want-to-call-it-left, while the "right" seems to be mainly libertarian, not denying that there are problematic fringes as well. Generally, we should not run after ideologues and assume control over others but take care of our own lives and the people around us. (Also in Germany you of course have biographies where opportunist, psychopathic individuals or family dynasties have gone from right to left to globalist totalitarianism, always being on the side of power)
This was an incredibly interesting interview. And the fact that it ends in Jack Barsky sharing his life story that starts with atheism/collectivism in the Soviet Union and ends in Texas as a Christian and teacher and lecturer is inspiring. He has an important message to share with thousands of misguided young people. ❤✝️ Great interview Dr. Peterson!!
He didn't have a choice though. His former motherland was destroyed, he was living in the US for many years without citizenship, risking all he had, of course he would do anything to conform
The long form convo on the DW had me crying. It was just so beautiful to hear his story to God. The other hour of this interview being almost fully on his Christian journey. So beautiful!
Jordan, please bring on T Sowell or one of his associates to discuss his outstanding “a conflict of visions.” The book is essential reading for those who wish to better understand the “vision” that sustains the utopian dream in the face of repeated, catastrophic failures.
Oooo my goodness. I love to listen to Thomas Sowell... in my humble opinion Thomas Sowell is an American treasure and hero. ❤❤❤❤❤❤ Unfortunately he does not get the recognition that he really deserves.
What a mesmerisingly interesting interview. A man who became a KGB illegal, growing up in The GDR, recruited, living in Canada and then the USA and becoming to faith through the writings of CS Lewis and through love and a child. Many thanks JBP.
I never found CSL particularly persuasive. But maybe it works for people who were indoctrinated into communist atheism. I'm no atheists but some Christian claims just make no sense to me.
Dr. Jordan Peterson, I come from East Germany, where I escaped. Your interview with Mr Barsky made me realize that only certain people have accepted becoming a spy. Mr. Barsky did this to further his career, thereby selling out any moral values. Claiming that he was not aware of what was happening around him and, at the same time, talking about his highly developed intelligence is contradictory. Why did he say yes? and I said no, despite what they offered me. The differences are moral standards. I was willing to take the risk by saying no.
I am from Croatia, but was born when we were part of "socialistic komunistic" state of yugoslavia, until we split through the war for our independence and i could understand this man much better than dr Peterson. I never realized until now how huge difference is only for understand that two ways of life between some democrat country from some socialst or komunist country or state. Nowadays lefty ppl doesnt even clue what life without basic human democrats rights looks like. Try to imagine that you could finished in prison for a years just beacause you said something against state or leader, komunist party, etc, etc. I am also aware bed things on the west but you cant never compare all this shit when you havent even freedom of speach. Its easy bulshiting about this and that when you sure that nobody would take you away for something what did you just say. For all those leftys or "liberals" on the west i can say go on some of those totalitarian states and then start talking about human rights.
Welcome, Friends. ❤ Thank you for being here and piping up. Your input could be invaluable. Do any of you b/log or v/log, or publish? Would you be interested in sharing your experience with westerners willing to learn from it, if you haven't already, besides comment sections? So many would be grateful... I mean like for generations... Maybe. I'm interested in the links between proxy wars and genocides or destruction as a price to bear for national debt repayment programs. But mostly on the human cost of communism or authoritarian societies and any relation or links with western korporatism ;o)
Jack Barsky played it well for himself. He profited from the Communist and the West. I remember the wall and the discussions at home. I grew up in the west but my father is from Berlin. Thus my family was very political. I also remember my father telling me stuff. A lot of people knew what was going on but they were scared. My father went out with a family member when we were visiting a small town in east Germany and told us they will go for a walk. They exchanged information but knew that was the only way because houses were bugged.. It can happen to any country at any point in time that we as humans go back to such a system. Interesting conversation. Thanks to Dr. Jordan Peterson and Jack Barsky.
Good to see you Dr Peterson. I was reading “Man’s search for meaning” and it reminds me of you. Bless you and all you care about. Thank you for inviting us into your vision of the futute
@@ikekiefer4556 not sure where you can get an unedited version but it was known as other things before. “A psychologist experiences in the concentration camp” and “say yes to life in spite of everything” you could try looking under those names but they may not be translated to English
@@ikekiefer4556 seems like you can find the second book I mentioned online. That one is the original version and a recap from Viktor Frankl in the 60’s
“If they told you the moon was made of cheese you’d believe it” My friend grew up under Mao. She believed the sun only shone in China. She was shocked when she travelled to Italy to work at the PRC embassy.
"She believed the sun only shines in China" We've known the Earth is round since like the 5th century, as if Mao told the people that the sun only shines in China. Your friend probably meant the sun only shines in China as a metaphore. But instead you've twisted that to mean: "CHINESE COMMUNISTS THINK THE SUN ONLY SHINES THERE" Aren't most flat earthers from the USA?
When did that happen? Most Chinese I know are very ambivalent about the government. They hate the corruption and injustice ( meaning selective enforcement of the laws) but also feel some patriotic duty to it because China was a chaotic mess before plus they are not aware of certain historical facts
Yeah the propaganda machine ‘ll do that to you unfortunately. People think they are immune to it, and then turn around and buy it hook line and sinker.
Fabulous interview. his story is amazing. the part of his story about his child sparking a deep unconditional love really hit me. such a brilliant guy in a high stakes situation.
The most intriguing interview and conversation I've ever listened to by anyone. And I'm 71 yo. Heading over to the daily wire to listen to the rest. Thank you Dr. Petersen and Mr. Barsky.
I've seen a couple other interviews a while back with Mr Barsky but this one is by far my favorite. You can tell how much he respects you, Jordan. He was measurably more candid with your interview. And I like him even more now. Thank you for another wonderful interview! And now I must go check out his site!! ❤
Something still quite boyish about him though, like he never really understood the full import of what he was involved in, despite his intelligence. But that I'm sure is common amongst most of these types of people, they get caught up in something they don't fully understand and just go along with its own internal logic.
Go see JP live. Saw him last year in PHX. Been watching him since his lectures first showed up so I was worried about not hearing anything fresh. I was BLOWN AWAY. Go see him.
What an interesting guy, and an interesting story. Good luck to him and his 13 year old daughter. I believe him when he says if he talks to you he can see right through you. Thanks JBP.
Well, idk when was the the last time you've read ANY comments. Ever. But it's my contention that most"humans"are barely literate talking monkeys at best... And corporate psychopaths rest of the time. So what exactly do you mean by "human"?!
We're facing a transition to the division of humanity between those who're compliant to the new digital single government rule, and those who refuse to acquiesce
Thank you for bringing this to us. It was great, and more than just interesting, but profound in many ways. I remember hearing Jack on a previous long format interview with Lex Fridman a couple of years ago and I was, of course, impressed. Hearing him today tell the same story added depth and context that, as engaging as Lex is (and there is no mistake Lex is an utterly remarkable and capable interviewer) this amplified the significance of Mr Barsky's experience and insights to a degree that is hard to evaluate because it has yet to fully integrate but I feel certain it will in my life. Thanks again, Dr Peterson. What you are doing is helping to bring about a transformation and Mr Barsky is exemplary of that much needed and appreciated change. Cheers.
Good to learn more about this topic. I'm cuban and this kind of things are fresh new for me since here cubans always talk nice things about the URSS. A lot of young cubans have open their eyes thanks to the internet and self education with books and people in the social network, some of them are cubans abroad givin their opinion about their lives in capitalism and some others are like sir Jordan B Peterson. 👏🏼 Not even facts(i.e history) or numbers(economics, statistics, etc.) are nice in Communism sadly. Edit: There's a book about this same topic that I read, very good, short and easy reading, highly recommended. The name is: "Animal Farm" in english I believe, I read it as "Rebelion en la granja" in spanish. Edit 2: 1:34:13 Fantastic message! :3 I hope many young people listen to it. 🙏🏼
I read it written by George owel while in university Indeed great book English is my third language We had to read many times before we got the meaning Great days they were
What it points to is that people must be whole and total people not to slip into dystopia. For example, it is good and important to be intelligent. In fact, intelligence is very, very important indeed because a person can, by intelligence alone, know what system will being about dystopia and which wont. Even as you read Marx and as he talks about the problems of 'superstructure' (elites who are protected and are behaving in an unfair or devious manner), and many other clever and even partially accurate concepts, a person who is very smart can say 'yes, indeed, some of the Kulaks (Russian landlords) might be part of 'a superstructure' but does that mean that ALL Kulaks treat us badly? 'Is it not only a handful of key intellectuals who work against the masses at the superstructure level and that small circle organises the others?' 'Does not ' the superstructure' actually consist of far fewer people that the millions we are killing? Even today, woke people commit the error of generalising and placing all or many people under labels which are actually just suited to the few. Yes! Intelligence alone can see all the warning signs of a dystopia so intelligence will always be important and highly prized not to mention that intelligence is that which allows us to live in increasingly advanced ways. If I am to say one thing about Marxism in the positive, however, it would be this; Many Marxist countries completely flushed out (killed) the elite level of their society even if Marxism was, itself an elitist doctrine (as well as killing anyone vaguely above the level of peasant and many of my ancestors died this way). The problem with the Western, non former Soviet countries, is that we have this culture of saying 'you are a tin foil hatter if you believe that there is a swamp which needs flushing'. In their credit, the Soviets knew that a flushing of a 'deep state' was necessary, but other than that, they can hardly be praised for the barely human and unintelligible way in which they went about so many other things. To return to the crux of the thread, several other human qualities also are key and help us to avoid dystopia. A person must also have imagination or they will not see why people desire to dream and create without ridiculous levels of restriction from the government. A person can have 'natural' intelligence' so that they love the earth, but they must also have 'interpersonal intelligence' 'so that they realise that the earth does not weep every time humans exercise their incredible projects and realise their aspirations on this planet. Kinesthetic intelligence is important so that you don't fall into weakness and low motivation and start to doubt the very gender which you embody, but you must also know your limits and know that even the strongest come back from warfare changed and none can pit themselves single handedly against metal and gunpowder. Existential intelligence, perhaps the most misundersood of all, reveals that much of this reality has a hidden and mysterious component and, indeed, those who seek to manipulate humans, literally use the areas of consciousness which not so many are trained to see and be aware of, to achieve their end. At the 'existential level' you can know about the 'old gods' who are rarely far from the collective psyche but who we barely recognise and remember, in modern times. Those whose teachings are found in Celtic, Scandinavian, Greek, Chinese, African, Indian, American Indian literature etc etc. Advanced, wise presences who we know by myth but we're certainly less mythological than we think. The giants of hyperborea, who live inside the earth, where we also started our journey. Those who we were kindred with and who walked among us before we were tricked into worshipping consciousness defeating Abrahamic snake gods. They will walk among us again once we become whole and total once more. All these things and all of these 'intelligences' are what tells us that both communism and extreme versions of neo liberalism don't work.
I love how you talk about the 'facts' under Communism being 'sad' and your evidence for those facts is 'Animal Farm' which is a work of fiction about anamorphic animals written by a man that was openly anti-semetic, anti-lgbt and racist that wrote about the threat of 'big brother' while simultaneously providing names of Communists he knew to the British secret police. Orwell is not the greatest source on Communism and that learning history from a book that literally describes itself as 'a 'fairy story' is not a replacement for an actual historical book. If you have critisms of The Soviet Union and Communism and cite a fictional book I'm not going to take you seriously.
@@ThisIsToolman Exactly. As Douglas Adams put it: "It is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
He kept emphasizing his proclivity, as a communist, to think of himself as one of the elites helping the downtrodden. I think that's because he was trying to make clear that the heart of communism is not compassion, but hubris. Or in the case of the woke communists, Pride.
I, amongst all others consuming your content, Dr JP. Would like to thank you for putting your neck out there, to educate the public. This fire you’ve built is warm. 🔥🙌🙏
Phenomenal interviews keep coming thick and fast. It's fantastic so many interesting people want to talk with you. Thank you for sharing it all. Keep it up
I listened to the entire interview with great curiosity. I grew up in a communist country, a neighbour of East Germany, but I was never as brainwashed as the youth in the GDR. There was communist propaganda at school and on television, but at home my parents and grandparents said something else. What was said at home, I couldn't say outside the house. I didn't trust communists. I tolerated them because I had to somehow live in that system. In 1987, I was recruited to work in the secret service and was offered a salary three times as much as I earned with a master's degree. Plus additional benefits. My inner voice told me that I couldn't go down this path. This inner conviction was so strong that I was ready to die, but not to agree to work in the secret services. I remember back then there was a belief that if you got involved with the secret services, you would never be able to stop working for them. Only death can free you from them.
A little over an hour in and wanted to hear his take on Yuri Bezmenov. This guy is interesting. Can't believe we were enemies with Russia for so long. I've literally never met a Russian I didn't like. Have a few Russian friends and one Ukrainian friend. Great people. Socialism is evil.
You are enemies of the Russians because your gov told you you must be, not because you are or must be. Understand why, and you will be a much wiser person.
Thank you so much for sharing this , this conversation touch deep , im glad to see so many people no matter where they are from , what they done , come to find the true , the love of our father , God bless us all , God have mercy of us all , God love us all .
The psychology the KGB and FBI are looking for in their recruits is that of those with very limited parental emotional attatchment. As much as I appreciate this man's intelligence and savvy, i loathe the greedy deceiver that he was, and probably still is, even though he may not be aware of this languishing trait in himmself.
Bingo!!! Products of divorced households, father resentment, fatherlessness = increased propensity to advocate as an elitist communist. Best part: they’re so narcissistic that rarely any introspection arrives
That's not always true, intelligence agencies in the US like recruiting Mormons because they have strong familial and cultural ties that make them unlikely to defect, and they often have foreign language immersion experience from serving missions for the LDS church converting people in foreign countries.
Not really. These people are far less stable and more likely to get corrupted. In case of the KGB, they want family connections because they can threaten agents to punish their family if they screw up
@@napoleonfeanor You are correct, but you misunderstood my point. I was referring to the recruit's childhood relations with their own parents, not of the family they create as adults under KGB connections.
An amazing interview with a rather impressive personality. I believe that the young people today have no vision of their futures. We as parents and grandparents destroyed their ability to visualize what is possible for them, given technology the pace at which technology is progressing. The complexity of life increased not because I am allowed to hate somebody who has more than I have, but because our parents failed to prepare us for our futures and we must add government and our education system. Thanks for this interview.
Great interview! I mean no disrespect when I say this but with his ability to "read people in an instant", his history, and the work he's doing now, my inquiring mind immediately jumped to "what if he's a recruiter now?" I hope he's truly living out his retirement years and just enjoying his daughter/family time and continues to grow in his faith in God.
Mr. Peterson said: the bible laid out two conceptions of how to succeed around 19:20 (Cain & Abel). Cain: He set his aim once, a goal. But at every step along the way, he lacked the highest aim. He tried to withhold his resources by doing the least he could get away with. In this conception of how to act, the actor never gives 100% effort, instead keeping some resources in reserve. In reserve for what? For some future catastrophe. Abel: Saw the problem right in front of him, and with the highest aim, set out to solve that problem, not withholding his resources. The actor here commits himself to doing it the right way, not thinking of what he stands to lose or gain. Maybe he does it because excellence is what is required of us. These are the two strategies people come up with, and there is a clear winner. To be like Abel, Solve the problem that's right in front of you, and do it RIGHT. The blessings will sort themselves. The utter brilliance is Mr. Peterson seeing this pattern repeated in Communism vs Capitalism. Archetypes play themselves out right in front of us. What a way to see the world.
18 yrs old in 1977 in Sacramento. Remember Soviet Life magazine? I was sold. Work in Russia. Learn Russian. Not for pay but for life! Food, brotherhood, community. Beautiful landscape. Top notch universities. That was the pitch.
I love the way Dr P drops in some seemingly random Biblical accounts to see a modern issue in a historical context, in terms of the human condition etc.
Very interesting...one gem was when the letter organization wanted to know "every detail of his life" - organizational DNA I think he said - which was "very helpful" to them back then. Present day every American has been giving their detail-information of their lives for free on the internet and through their smart phones for decades now. Wonder why such personal information is so helpful and what do they actually do with it? Maybe another video topic. God Bless:)
WEF also recruits its apparatchiks the same way through the elite building program of young leaders . They convince selected people that they are great and do amazing things, they fix things for them which makes the young think they achieved through their own work and they are then hooked as all they have depends on the WEF framework
The strangest thing about jack is his insistence that yuri bezmenov was, "a fraud". Yet the more i learn, the more convinced i become that yuri was absolutely right.
The bit on the "Trilateral commission" made me laugh so hard. I laughed because people were terrified of it in the 80s to the early 0s. So as a young man, I got curious and looked into them. The trilateral commission had a website, and you could literally join them pretty easily if you had an economics or finance background. The trilateral commission still exists. they look a bit harder to join, but they still have David Rockefeller Fellowships. You can email them and ask how they select their fellows. If you are 35 or younger, perhaps you could become one if you cared to do so. All from emailing them. This strikes me as the definition of the exact opposite of secret and shadowy behaviour...
This is based on observation by the kgb that being public is the best espionage tactic. B4 them, the norm of espionage was to be secretive precisely for the reasons u believe (just highly refined versions of it) but the kgb decisively proved them wrong during the cold ear which is its own well documented subject, read active measures. The goal of secure espionage is not to hide but create a misleading image & have the other believe it to be true.
… yes, but what they are actually doing is never reported in the news, in newspapers, in magazines, … not even hinted at in movies - the WEF and BigPharma and the UN have websites, too, and tell us a lot of merrily sounding oh-so-űber-virtuous generalities about their intentions… but what are they actually doing we have to find out by relentless investigative real independent journalists - having easy memberships and public web-pages and telling us sweet nothings is far from open transparency and accountability -
I just subscribed to "kgbspychology" and submitted my first question to Jack: Did the KGB create an American village in the USSR where illegals were trained to be ersatz Americans as fictionalized in the book "Charm School "? The book posited the training village to be near Borodino. At the Naval War College, a fellow student who had been the US Deputy Air Attache' to the the Soviet Union recommended the book and after I had read it, wanted to know if I found it to be plausible.
What a heroic story on the edge in very difficult times between extreme political structures, Communism and Capitalism. Our future relies upon men like Jack Barsky. Congrats to him and Jordan.
To Mr Barsky's point about the law only taking away freedoms: one of the related points Jesus made was that the law cannot make us good, but only punish us for what we do wrong. When we are saved by grace as a free gift we are free to live our full lives not bound by fear of punishment, but freedom to do good
I think it’s also revealing that he didn’t have any regrets because he doesn’t know the consequences of his actions. That was a very shallow response. JP should have probed a little further, i.e., how do you feel about being deceitful?
Thank a God, some sensible comments, I thought I saw a different interview, most part of comments cheering the guy. This guy does’t show remorse, he is actually teaching a young generation to do the same! Seams half of true and his statements, gaps. The only remorse is that he left the wife in German?? Really? How about questions about harm and killing Jordan? He didn’t know about the threatening environment in the east german community? Really? So proud of his intellectual abilities…reading minds? Still a communist, pure manipulation. Found in the church a safe place to keep going. I would like to listen his second wife. The one he said barely studied and make herself pregnant😂. The one with mental health problems. This one for sure has a lot to say. Found out that she buit a family with a communist spy, that uses a name of a 11 years old dead boy…yeah this would THE interview
Oh, so romantic! His mom didn’t love him, weak father left. He did some almost innocent semi-bad things for the KGB, uncomfortably. Naturally he only was after the adventure, natural east german wanderlust, he says. Am I the only one who sees a player who has been playing all sides for his own personal benefit.
With all due respect, calling communism a Utopian idea or a system taking care of the poor and struggling is romanticizing something where exactly opposite view is correct. As it was said, everyone was equally poor, not that the people were incapable and incompetent, it was the system which was taking everything away step by step, until nothing else mattered only a basic survival that each had to fight for on his own in an increasingly corrupt society. Something is interesting though, when nothing changes and a false sense of security sets in, people seem to become more friendly and helpful towards each other. Daily struggle for survival appears to dampen any creativity and desire for independence. Most turn into victims, looking for something or someone to take care of their basic needs. God and faith are prohibited and outright banned…. Is this Utopia? That would be an insult to millions that lived and lost their lives in that propagandist regime.
Uhh...I think you missed the point they were making. The sales pitch for communism was to create a human utopia; but obviously that wasn't really what happened - which they both very clearly mentioned several times.
Jack’s book on the KGB outlines the importance of assessing an individual’s level of dissatisfaction with their life, their accomplishments, and their internal struggles when evaluating them. This dissatisfaction can pertain to specific aspects of the person’s life or be more comprehensive. Individuals who are discontented or in conflict with society, their environment, or themselves are most open to new ideas, as they see these as potential avenues for improving their current situation. Jordan’s influence stems from his ability to connect with a vulnerable audience, many of whom have deep-seated issues with society that are symptomatic of capitalism. Solutions such as studying Marx, joining labor unions, and advocating for universal healthcare could address many of these issues. However, such solutions may not align with Jordan’s interests, as his financial growth is tied to maintaining the status quo and fostering fear of these potential solutions.
It was the 80s, 2 soviet spies defect and say the other is a double agent. 1 says the communism HAS infected America, the other saying it hasn't. The year is now 2024 and more than half the population views religion as the opium of the masses while simultaneously knowing and celebrating a paganised tradition on Dec 25th.
I will consider it a remake of an interview with former KGB Agent, Yuri Bezmenov. It was brilliant, highly recommend to everyone interested in the topic. Thank you, Dr. Peterson.
This is one of the best sessions Jordan has done, he’s actually letting this Man speak at length instead of building great and long winded dissections of every phrase uttered by the him in response to his long winded questions. Welcome to Texas Jack!
"When the arrogant adventurer met the human race". What a profound realisation. The power of unconditional love. You can't get anything back but a smile. Love conquers all...
Superb, thanks to both Dr Peterson and Albrecht Dittrich a.k.a Jack Barsky for this fascinating interview. There is something very touching about Jack's decision to leave his life as a KGB agent behind because of the love for his daughter. I'm sure he can have a positive effect on the people he reaches through his lectures, books and online material. A really enjoyable interview and it was also nice to see how Jack is rather in awe of Dr Peterson too.
