People saying it's Ireland's fault that the church was just handling their "unwanted kids and unwed moms - Ireland pushed their daughters and children out BUT the Catholic CHURCH made it THEIR problem when the accepted the income to take care of them, the income to house them, the income for their labor & the money for the adoption of children who they abused and starved. YES ITS THE CHURCH IS 100% TOTAL PROBLEM WHEN THEY OFFERED TO HANDLE THE SITUATION FOR A FEE.
@@celticmist14 But nuns who are used by priests as a safe and sanitary brothel who get pregnant are forced to have abortions if that nunnery was not raking in dough for adoption - then the child could be born. Otherwise many long ago established convents, had a lye pit. If it will embarrass the Catholic institutions, so then abortion is just fine as it is harder to explain a lye pit now. But when the girls of Ireland got raped and had babies, those who took advantage of these girls were not held accountable either! Males are not at fault, they can’t be held accountable, and the original sin must be punished, even though the man sat and watched the conversation with the serpent. The priests’ bodies are as Jesus Christ as they can magically turn wafers into the body of Christ. So the men are never to blame. All blame is shifted onto women. When priests were allowed to marry, was transubstantiation happening, or it only happens when men are deprived of sex? Doesn’t seem modern priests are being very deprived! If transubstantiation even happens, did it happen when the priests married? The men of Ireland could be taking the blame for girls sent away to Mother and baby homes. Were some the babies conceived by priests? At this point, it is a fair question!
This horrific problem CANNOT be solved by appointing "investigative commissions", as claimed in this video. "Investigative commission" IS NOT the "proper" first step. "Investigative commissions" ALWAYS cover up problems (That's why they're appointed!). This horrific problem can only be solved by getting the word to the people. Start running "News" stories about these atrocities, instead of stories about who Lady Gaga is dating.
What is also so very obvious is that it was the women who were punished to have had sex outside of marriage. But it takes a man to conceive the child, but, noo, the men were not responsible. Misogyny and double-standards. Shame on the Irish society and the Catholic Church.
terhitormanen wait WUTT..ARE YOU KIDDING???HOPE YOU ARE...DONT BLAME FATHERS , THATS A COP OUT... I Recall a certain law passed there BEFORE this happened saying HER BODY HER CHOICE....
@@crawfish70510That law clearly had nothing to do with how these women and children were treated! How can you even suggest that these women had any choice in their predicament? The men weren't even identified, let alone punished in the way the women were.
No point in arguing between yourselves, it’s a bygone ireland. The wrongs were horrific. Nobody disputes that. This is not a new feminist issue. It’s in the past. May those who suffered find some semblance of peace out of what has happened recently in Ireland with the report etc. One thing is for sure, compensation should be paid. These institutions hoard large holdings of land. Devalera is gone. The CC is very near gone. Sell some of this land and pay your dues to the victims & the deceased. Innocent children.
Dairmaid, what a delight to hear a fair and informed interview. It has to be acknowledged, we all know you can't rewrite history but to admit it was wrong is a way forward.
They don't call "it" the United Kingdom for Monty Python nothing! It was super, duper shocking to travel there and learn and realize how un-United "it" really is and should be! Wee England always wanted and needed both countries for their Wars. But neither country ever really needed them! True Celts and Scots are fiercely independent and tough as nails! That's exactly why they are despised so much by both the Roman and British Empires of Evil Royale!
This is so so terrabel and sad.i gave my baby son up for adoption in ireland in 1996 and was disowned by my family and am disowned to this day and so is my son disowned by my family also sham sham sham on the church and state.
I will never understand religious logic: Two people commit sin by having unmarried sex and creating a child. The child had no responsibility in this, but we punish it for the sin anyway. The mother of the child is a sinner, and we punish her hard. The father of the child might be a sinner, but we forgive this sin and let him live his life without consequences for his actions. Then we try to forget any of this ever happened. This is how we uphold a high moral standard.
Hilda Jensen there is no logic to it, it is simply written in the bible: e.g. Deuteronomy: "I, the Lord your god am a jealous god and he sins of the father are visited on the sons"
If Dr. Browne's Mother and Child Act had been passed, sealed and canned in within the legal teamwork for Irish law(does such exist?!) ......these horror houses would never have had access to young women. On top of this, what mother would actually condone sending her daughter to one of those criminal institutions? SO unfortunate how weak and ineffective Irish government was instead of laying the foundation as a DUTY OF CARE TO ITS CITIZENS.
the babies in the septic tanks in TUAM , where in fact not disposed down the sewers as people say , but where carried down the steeps into what was an open sewer, more like a small swimming pool which now has large concrete cubes running in a line connected with piping very close together and with concrete lids maybe one inch tick that can be pushed either way. this was the new sewerage system that was built for the nuns, but not short after that the home was connected to the main sewerage system, so this system was disused.. so the nuns decided that they would keep the 5 pound note the GCC gave them to bury the children and get one of the domestics (woman who had been trought the system herself and was never allowed to leave) to carry the dead child down the back feild where the sewerage system was in the middle of the night and place the child in the concrete cubes, the chidren were wrapped in swaddling and place on top of each other and then the lid closed over again till the next child died. always follow the money,,
@@columbaiona3081 BTW its 796 dead children and I claim to have found where the nuns dumped them, prove me wrong , then we can go and look at the other 21 convents where irish children are dumped by the back walls or behind the laundries and on and on,, fact there are still 796 dead chldren in a disused septic tank at Tuam minus the few body parts the goverment took out for carbon dating.. now if you are not informed about the facts like Diarmaid Ferriter then keep you opion to yourself ..BTW.
@@irishbuster9936 So you dug the site up and found the 796 bodies then? The Tuam wasn't a Convent BTW - it was an M&B Home that took in Mothers and Babies and women about to give Birth. It also took in infants with congenital defects. Of those who died there 55% were in it at the time. It is a bit odd to say the least that they did not ask where their kids were buried?
@@columbaiona3081 go away you have no idea what your talking about, nuns live in a convent, in 2012 the irish goverment dug up the septic tanks.. and yes i have been in these concrete tanks to clean them.. now do one.. Sr Liguori.
@@irishbuster9936 No one dug up the so called 'septic tanks' in Tuam in 2012 - the story didn't even surface until 2014 when Catherine Corless speculated that that as there were no known graves for these kids that they were buried where a septic tank is marked on old maps. So you certainly weren't cleaning then out in Tuam in 2012! Nice try though...
Irish media: "What did it feel like to be placed into one of those homes, Mrs. O Brian? Mrs. O Brien - "Oh, it was not bad. They looked after you as best they could. There was no where else to go. The nuns treated us nicely, tried to teach us a trade. and so on. " Iris media: "OK~ WHO LET HER IN HERE? GET HER OUT AND GET THE NEXT ON IN HERE! AND SHE BETTER BE GOOD! Irish media: "So what was it like in the homes, Mrs. O Toole? Mrs. O Toole: Oh, it was awful, They beat us and raped us and never fed us anything Irish media: Perfect!
A very frustrating interview. Noone can be specifically blamed, no institution can be specifically blamed, no congregation can be specifically blamed, no government department, government minister or civil servant can be specifically blamed. There is no estimate, or guesstimate of the number of mother and baby homes (both state and private). How can anyone seeking closure or even just an explanation accept this state of affairs ?
As an Englishman, I don't think we get a pass on this. As Prof Ferriter said, the common denominator among the victims was poverty. Now, how was that poverty come by? That isn't intended as an exculpation of the Irish men, women and institutions who failed these women and infants so badly, but we can't wash our hands of it either.
the child mortality rate in orphanages eg smyllum, must of been higher than the general rate. but yet, they say there was no foul play to the amount of child deaths.
OLD IRELAND - SENT PREGNANT GIRLS AWAY TO HOMES - FOR SHAME, IRELAND, FOR SHAME! NEW IRELAND - SENDS PREGNANT GIRLS TO THE ABORTIONIST TO KILL THE BABY - HOORAY FOR THE NEW IRELAND, LAND OF LIGHT AND HONOR!!
This is indeed a damming indictment on Ireland and the weakness of the state of giving the Catholic Church (who ran all these terrible places) a, free reign. Thank goodness things are a lot better now and that the church has suffered
This was the state of things when the State was founded in 1922/23. The IMR in those homes was terrible but improved dramatically after circa 1948. Unmarried Mothers Allowance was introduced in 1973 & Illegitimacy abolished in 1988.
The Irish people were very religious in those years and everyone trusted the Catholic Church to look after these institutions. That is what people believed at the time. People beliefs and attitudes changed over time for the better.
It was bad all over Europe, in the UK as well...girls just needed to be more modest and refused the romances, some were incest too, probably a lot more than sex with strangers etc. If they listened to their priests and bishops, and refrain from anything like that until marriage, they would have been ok probably...
The speaker hints at some much deeper seated factors at play. In another film I saw today, a speaker commented how much influence the Catholic Church acquired from the 1850s onwards. As an aside this is around the time my Irish ancestors (from Connemara) converted to the Church of Ireland. It would suggest some powerful forces was at work in Ireland at that time. I am aware that there were some major changes in social behaviour around that time such as the dramatic rise in age at which people married. Perhaps the changes were expressed in harsher, more judgemental views of breaches of societal expectations. Has there been much published on the psychological impact the Famine had on Irish society? It was clearly massive. It's as if an entire society was in the grip of a collective PTSD. I would be interested to read more. If so the effects are still felt to this day. Would it offer us any insights into the lasti g impact of the last 2 - 2 and a half years of the Covid-19 pandemic. Will we see, are we already seeing changes now that suggest deep psychic trauma resulting from our experience? Considering this piece was filmed sometime before our experience during the time of Covid-19, it would appear a healthy reminder to consider context when considering the tragedies such as the Mother and Baby homes. He is correct to point out such things do not happen in isolation.
Not only did the poor Irish have to deal with the suffering inflicted by the British and the Black and Tan but they also suffered from the Catholic Church which was very judgemental, evil and harsh in their treatment of the poor. Does the world even know how much the Irish have suffered?
Don't mention the good that nuns (who travelled from France) have done for decades, who gave up their comfortable middle class lives to help pregnant mothers (sometimes within their own family) and gave professional midwife births a roof over their heads and food etc, when everyone else (including the whole family had abandoned them, and the father of the baby, where is the criticism here where it belongs?) and there was not even a functioning government, never mind a dept. of health or finance. When the state finally started to get organised it was so busy implementing huge projects like the electricity networks, same for fresh water and sewage systems and later telephone network that it was happy to leave the nuns with the problem. These women did more, for no gain, in times of unbelievable poverty, they and the mothers were the ones holding the babies as they watched their lives slip away with the plagues of the times and malnourishment that took these little ones e.g. Typhoid, Diphtheria, Polio, T.B.,Pneumonia, Diarrhoea, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, Hepatitis , Measles, Mumps, whooping cough, Rotavirus, Rubella and Tetanus, the Spanish Flu pandemic etc. as certified on their doctors death certs, with higher death rates because so many sick and undernourished children were packed into close proximity, same as the Tenements in the cities. Putrid underground drinking water, unpasteurized milk, poor sanitation, rampant diseases, civil war, world wars (2), depressions, general strikes, rationing etc. and the lack of funding (Sound Familiar?) All this despite reams of letters to the authorities for more help. Today's people cannot even begin to imagine for thousands of pregnant girls and their babies than any of these well paid t.d.s or campaigners, or keyboard warriors ever did, as they try to read history BACKWARDS.! They started hospitals and schools and served for free to help the Irish poor with real free education and hospitalisation. In doing so, laid the foundations of the modern welfare state. WE WOULD NOT HAVE AN EDUCATION OR HEALTH SYSTEM WITHOUT THEM So not one shred of actual evidence of any nun harming a baby. But hey, let's find them guilty and then we can conduct inquiries. Don't forget the nuns are buried there also. I hope I can keep in the laughing here, THEY WANT TO KILL HEALTHY IRISH BABIES AND HAVE THEM FLUSHED DOWN INTO THE SEWERS, WITH NO IDENTITY OR MARKING OF THEIR EXISTENCE! Abortion is the biggest child abuse!
People trust the church to look after their children,if they knew the truth would there have been so many sent to these places.the servants of God should be so caring not the way these holy people act.Where does it say in the bible that bishop.priests ,nuns and the holy people can sexually and mentally torment those children in their care!!!!!!!
Listen to Diarmaid's words from 14.44 - Historians are not in the blame game and nor should they be. You may note that the people vilifying the Church over what happened are not people with Degrees in History.
I hear a historian doing what he can to present an all-round consideration of Ireland in a historical context of poverty, etc. Diarmaid had written many social history books...and is far from a cherry-picker of facts... we have fragments of information from a time when documented records were shoddy and not kept to the standards of today.. it's a tragic part of our history and this whole situation was created by a collective societal willful ignorance and shame. he says all this.
