TUDOR ROYAL FERTILITY PROBLEMS. Royal childbirth experiences. Producing a male heir. History Calling

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What were the reasons for the ROYAL FERTILITY PROBLEMS suffered by Henry VIII and his wives which made producing a male heir so difficult for the most famous Tudor King and his consorts? Were the Tudors fertility challenged as a group, or was it just one person who had difficulties in this area? In this week’s Tudors and six wives documentary from History Calling we look at the conceptions, pregnancies, miscarriages, stillbirths and royal childbirth experiences of three of the six wives of Henry VIII; Queens Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn and Jane Seymour, plus one of his mistresses, Elizabeth Blount (aka Bessie Blount) who was the mother of his illegitimate son, Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond. We’ll consider the numerous theories which have sought to explain over the centuries why Henry’s quest for an heir was so long and difficult. These include the idea that Henry VIII had syphilis, that one or more of the mothers of his children suffered from the rhesus D phenomenon, or that Kell syndrome may have been to blame. We’ll also examine the theory that Henry VIII was increasingly impotent from the 1530s onward and ultimately try to answer the question, why did so many Tudor children die within this branch of the royal family? This video will also include a discussion of Henry’s problems or potential problems in the bedroom department during his marriages to Anne of Cleves, Katherine Howard and Catherine Parr (none of whom fell pregnant by him).
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Catrina Banks Whitely and Kyra Kramer, ‘A new explanation for the reproductive woes and midlife decline of Henry VIII’ in Historical Journal, 53:4 (2010), pp 827-48. www.jstor.org/...
Sir John Dewhurst, ‘THE ALLEGED MISCARRIAGES OF CATHERINE OF ARAGON AND ANNE BOLEYN’ in Medical History, 28 (1984), pp 49-56.
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24 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 1,6 тыс.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

What do you think caused the Tudors' fertility problems? Let me know below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling and my Amazon storefront at www.amazon.com/shop/historycalling

@GTMemes2 2 года назад

Inbreeding

@tanyagarcia2136 2 года назад

It was the Tutor curse.

@jasperhorace7147 2 года назад

@@GTMemes2 That can’t be an explanation as neither Henry vii or Elizabeth of York were very inbred. They shared a common ancestor, Edward iii. Henry viii and Catherine of Aragon were also distantly related via John of Gaunt but not to such a degree as other royal houses. Elizabeth Woodville and Henry Tudor both brought in new blood. Henry viii was not closely related to any of his other wives. Catherine of Aragon came from a family of fertile women, and of course it doesn’t necessarily follow that offspring will also be fertile, clearly Catherine was, as were two of her sisters, so the fault had to lie somewhere with Henry.

@cestes56 2 года назад

I listened to a video on this topic a few months ago. It statistically compared Henry viii's pregnancies with all his women to other male nobles pregnancies. All other factors being equal, it found that other men had up to 10x more success in fathering healthy children than Henry viii. Factors affecting male fertility can include things like diet. Henry's diet was very poor. He consumed up to 4000 calories a day of rich fatty meats, no fruit or veggies, a lot of wine. That diet today would result in a male's sperm being of poor quality with fragmented DNA. The conclusion of these fertility doctors was that Henry's sperm were not overall genetically healthy and the fault of the miscarriages, stillbirths and early deaths of his offspring was most likely due to Henry and not any of his partners, for various reasons.

@ButtonsCasey 2 года назад

It was the 16th century. If you look at other families Anne Boleyns parents are one, their was A LOT of failed pregnancies and children dying.

@kimberlybates6261 2 года назад

My heart goes out to these Queens. The heartbreak of losing children through miscarriages, still births or losing them as infants, toddlers or young adults. My heart goes out to them.

@ewanoxborrow1024 2 года назад

And the grief that his wives got when the babies DID survive, but weren’t sons. Like she could help it?

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Yes, Catherine in particular just had the most miserable decade after her marriage.

@here_we_go_again2571 2 года назад

Life was miserable for most women in that era. It wasn't only the king who wanted a son to carry on the family businesses/position. But, for a monarchy, male heirs were necessary as women were not considered fit to rule. Catherine of Arragon could have "retired" to a convent (and been allowed to raise her daughter in an auxilary building or allowed liberal visitation within her chambers/apartment at the convent) But she claimed that she was destined to be a queen, not a nun. I am sure that her own family's instructions to her were to remain as queen -- To prevent Harry from remarrying another royal household -- Little did they know that Henry would be desperate enough to start his own church! She was very pious and would have adapted to living in a situation attached to a convent.

@kathleenstoin671 2 года назад

Nice video, well researched.Ive thought of the Rh factor, also. I think Katherine of Aragon had also damaged her health by the practice of fasting frequently in the belief that God would bless her with children for it. A few of her biographers have mentioned that she fasted frequently. This might have had an adverse effect on her reproductive system, or if she fasted during pregnancy, resulted in low birth weight babies. Whatever the cause, this poor woman must have suffered greatly over her inability to have more healthy children, as well as from the grief of losing one baby after another. I think of how history would have been so different if Katherine's little son Henry had lived!

@here_we_go_again2571 2 года назад

@@kathleenstoin671 I hadn't thought about the damage by fasting. I am wondering just how inbred Catherine was (as well as Henry's other wives were, not to mention Henry)

@Tseringlhatso 2 года назад

Re his impotency: I think there's quite a high possibility Henry became type2 diabetic. He was significantly overweight, and we know he had a leg ulcer which would not heal. The incidence of erectile problems in diabetics is quite high, due to damage to blood vessels and nerves.

@fedra76it 2 года назад

Plus, if you experience chronic pain due to an ulcer which would not heal, possibly causing recurrent infections (thus fatigue, fever, etc.), maybe this does not help your performance, no matter how desperately motivated you are.

@annjohnson6193 2 года назад

He was definitely type 2 diabetic.

@Mysteria710 2 года назад

I absolutely agree with this theory

@meeeka 2 года назад

One thing never discussed about Henry VIII, was how his grandfather Edward IV soon started eating, overeating. He grew very fat, eventually took a fever, and died. One of the beliefs is that Edward IV died from some sort of kidney disease, which could be linked to Type 2 diabetes. After his jousting accident though, not only had he a brain injury, he also had terrible limb infections,

@mkuti-childress3625 2 года назад

I have always thought that, as well. And I have wondered about an autoimmune thyroid problem, which could cause a ton of problems pretty quickly, including weight gain, depression… and diabetes. Whatever health problems he had as he got older, I’m sure they were pretty miserable without modern treatments!

@chinamckenzie88 2 года назад

I believe the stress and mistreatment of his wives caused them to miscarry so much. I can't even imagine the pressure and disappointment he put on them.

@Godblesslaci Год назад

It's actually a myth that miscarriages are caused by stress. Stress is not linked to miscarriages and your body knows exactly how to grow a baby despite emotional distress one might feel during pregnancy. There would never be any babies born if stress actually did contribute to healthy birth. Unfortunately, miscarriages are just very common and the fact that his wives had so many point more toward genetic defects than anything else.

@emilya4841 Год назад

Sadly there is absolutely no medical or scientific evidence to suggest that stress can cause a miscarriage. I do agree however it must have been a scary and stressful time to be pregnant with Henry’s baby!

@joannahimes-murphy6897 Год назад

Yes!!!! 100 percent!

@joannahimes-murphy6897 Год назад

@Emily A Farm animals who are stressed miscarry. Rabbit Does under stress reabsorb the fetuses in the wild or in a hutch. When a human woman is under stress in one way or another it is considered a high risk pregnancy and the mother is put on bedrest. History is full of women who lost babies in terrible circumstances. I lost two babies during times of stress in my life.

@jamellfoster6029 Год назад

@@joannahimes-murphy6897 so true. I lost a child during a stressful time almost 15 years ago.

@danniis9444 2 года назад

I'm rhesus negative and even with intruterine blood transfusions for my daughter to help with fetal anemia she was a full term stillbirth. There is no pain like the loss of a child. I feel so badly for these queens who went through that.

@bubbybets9336 2 года назад

i hope youre okay

@sabrinar.purnell3869 2 года назад

I’m so sorry for your loss 🙏🏾❤️

@shelleysprouse5687 2 года назад

My heart goes out to you.

@nenisguevaragomez8122 2 года назад

💔

@mrsseebeck 2 года назад

I'm so sorry for your loss. My daughter-in-law had a full term still birth.

@jasperhorace7147 2 года назад

As Henry is the common denominator in all of these sad stories of miscarriage and stillbirth, the fault had to lie with him somehow. Of course he would never have wanted to hear that! Nor would he have wanted to know (as we do today) that he was responsible for the sex of his children.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

I certainly think he had issues in later life, but with Catherine of Aragon in particular, I do wonder if there was something going on with her as well...

@cathaymcrae2401 2 года назад

Ironic, huh. Killing innocent women blamed for his lack of sons, when it was his fault. And having the greatest Tudor monarch living under his rooves the entire time. He sort of paid a karmic price even while still alive.

@bodhisattva2348 2 года назад

Everytime I c a movie or TV show with his he's always yelling & blaming everything & every1 else for his down falls & short comings, especially his wife.

@robinlillian9471 2 года назад

It's unreasonable to expect people who lived 500 years ago to have known what we do now. I'm sure Henry would have been glad to know what was causing the problems IF it meant his children, especially sons, could have been kept alive. Men also mourn when their children die.

@bodhisattva2348 2 года назад

@@robinlillian9471 yes henry did mourn but he was a King in a different so I highly doubt he would've accepted blame & acknowledged that the pregnancy losses were his fault. He seem to blame every 1 but himself.

@willowashe 2 года назад

Catherine’s story is heartbreaking; having so many babies live such a short time.

@angelafahlenkamp9311 8 месяцев назад

Reminds me of Catherine the Great, poor thing never brought any of the many many pregnancies she had, it would have been impossible for her but she never knew why 😕

@glen7318 8 месяцев назад

Catherine the Great had children@@angelafahlenkamp9311

@Fiddling_while_Rome_burns 6 месяцев назад

You should checkout Queen Anne.

@Galen-864 2 года назад

Karma - the fact that when Henry's precious son, Edward, died the only eight heirs left were all female and that his two daughters, that he disowned, became queens over England for the next 50 years and that they ended his line.

@jerrymoore838 7 месяцев назад

I don't see how that would be karma. When he died he died secure in the knowledge that he had Edward VI to carry on his line as the new king. What happened after he would never know. And if Catherine and Anne had known that their daughters never had children, they'd likely both have been saddened by the fact. As for vengence, both of them loved Henry throughout their lives

@morganssmashingpearls3329 Месяц назад

Some of you guys who used that word don’t understand what it means.

@Galen-864 Месяц назад

@@morganssmashingpearls3329 Are you the dictionary police? 😉

@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 2 года назад

I think the Rhesus factor or Kell Blood type, combined with later impotence, are the likeliest explanation for why Henry and his wives had such fertility issues. I love your dismantling of the syphilis theory, and it’d be wonderful if you could do a similar deconstruction about theories regarding Elizabeth having had secret pregnancies.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

The whole issue of whether Elizabeth was ever pregnant is on my list. That guy who pretended he was her son by Robert Dudley was either off his rocker or on the make I think.

@arualblues_zero 2 года назад

@@HistoryCalling Especially considering Mary's fertility issues, which could be entirely coincidental.. or not?

@Calla-sl8gd 2 года назад

The Rhesus factor has always held for me as an explanation, in part because of my own personal experience. I am Rhesus negative and my fiance' was positive. This topic and its potential outcome was discussed during premarital counseling. This could explain Anne Boleyn's pregnancy difficulties. As for Katherine of Aragon, with hygiene being so poor and daily living so precarious, it's no wonder the poor woman had problems. Thanks HC for the video!

@dfuher968 2 года назад

I have always found the Rhesus factor a plausible explanation due to my own family history (plus for many years I didnt know about the Kell factor). My grandmother was O neg, and in her first uneventful pregnancy she produced my aunt. Then she had trouble getting pregnant again (or perhaps was and miscarried too early to have known), until finally 6 years later she gave birth to my father in a very premature home birth. He was born 2½ months early, and this being 1950 the doctor didnt expect him to survive, so he was hurriedly baptized over the kitchen sink, and then the doctor went home with the message, that if my dad survived until morning, then he should be taken to hospital. Well, my dad turned out to be an incredible fighter, but even at the hospital, where he spent over 4 months in an incubator, the nurses also didnt expect him to survive, so they didnt turn him often enough, so he spent his whole life with 1 leg slightly shorter than the other as a result. My grandmother gave me the little homeknit baby jacket, my dad wore, when they finally got to take him home, and its just soooo tiny, barely big enough for a normal newborn baby, and he was almost 5 months at that time! Anyway, the handicaps he had to live with, the 1 slightly shorter leg and severe hearing loss (being only able to hear the lower spectrum of sounds, but he was badass at selftaught lip reading) had nothing to do with the Rhesus factor, but with being very premature and hospital staff not doing a proper job. I know, what many of u probably think - 6½ months, thats about 26 weeks, ofc he should survive, a majority of 26 weekers do. These days. In 1950 it was unheard of. After that, my grandmother never became pregnant again, but that is probably mostly to blame on her getting uterine cancer, when my dad was just a couple of years old, and the early 50s radiation completely destroyed her insides. She lived another 35 years, and I had the pleasure of spending many after school hours with her in her little shop, b4 sadly the cancer came back. But all that is way off topic, just got me talking about my beloved grandmother! @History Calling - great presentation, and so refreshing compared to all those, who decide on their preferred answer and then cherrypick, whichever things support their conclusion and ignore everything else, often painfully twisting the few known facts and common sense in the proces.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

That's such a sad story about what your grandmother and father went through, but I'm delighted that your Dad showed them all and survived. I'm sure he must have inherited some of that fighting spirit from your grandmother as she sounds very strong as well to have endured all that worry and stress.

@hanananah 2 года назад

It just hit me that this in a sense is 500 year old gossip. And I'm riveted. This is such a juicy story that it's still being discussed centuries later. I bet Henry would be pissed. Good. He deserves some sort of retribution for what he did to his wives.

@lilymarinovic1644 2 года назад

Not just gossip. Henry's problems in having children had huge impacts both historically and politically, so were of real significance.

@clairewillow6475 2 года назад

@@lilymarinovic1644 I think something can be gossip and have historical/political significance at the same time

@lilymarinovic1644 2 года назад

@@clairewillow6475 oh I agree with you. Just saying it was both, not either/or.

@clairewillow6475 2 года назад

@@lilymarinovic1644 👌

@sekichdawn3913 2 года назад

Wouldn't consider this gossip by any means.

@daysofapril2667 2 года назад

I’m Rh- myself, and I’ve been grateful to have the benefit of modern medical knowledge in my pregnancies. I’ve often thought that so much infant and maternal mortality and fertility problems of the past could be attributed to what is now so easily treated with a series of injections and healthcare screenings. The Rh factor wasn’t even discovered until 1940 (which was after my grandmother was born) so it’s treatment is a pretty recent development in the scheme of things.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Yes, we're so lucky to have modern medicine. I don't think a lot of people even realise just how bad things were in earlier centuries.

@jonesnori 2 года назад

I've thought about this, too. My mother lost her third child to it (second child was negative herself), and then avoided getting pregnant for six years. At that point doctors developed the first crude treatments, inducing labor early, and transfusing Rh- blood into the baby in an exchange transfusion. I survived after being induced two weeks early and receiving two exchange transfusions and two boosters. My younger sister needed ten exchange transfusions. After that my parents gave up, but doctors kept working on it with other families, doing in utero transfusions if the family story is correct, then developing the current easier treatments.

@ladythalia227 2 года назад

I’ve thought the same. I myself iam RH- and so was my mother and maternal grandmother. Likely even more women going further back. The women of my line have all been fertile even though only about 10% of our population (Norway) is Rh- We’ve likely been lucky enough to marry men with recessive Rh- genes or men that have been negative themselves as we’ve never had problems. My dad is Rh+ but is a Rh- carrier. I can’t believe the heartbreak these women went through - and were all blamed for - even the common denominator for them all was a man.

@laurenarigo3894 2 года назад

Now a days the mother is given a shot of rh immune goblin part way through the pregnancy to prevent sensitization.

@jennys_wonderland 2 года назад

Does not always work. I was already sensitized so the shot didn’t help. Son was born at 35 weeks with hemolytic disease of the newborn. He’s fine now tho :)

@martinadrempetic2395 2 года назад

We can only imagine why Henry's wives had so many problems in bearing children. It is true that medicine and hygiene in tudor times where pretty poor and undeveloped. I can tell from my own experience, having two miscarriages, that it is possible to have bad luck. After that i went to doctors and they found nothing wrong with me or my husband. Stress can be very important factor in being able to concieve...my father was ill at the time, my aunt died and your body reacts to that. Can you imagine stress of Anne Boleyn or Katherine of Aragon trying to conceive sons? Their lives weren't easy...i remember how i was stressed trying to concieve again after that loss...thankfully i have two beautiful daughters now ❤

@namelia4439 2 года назад

💜

@tastx3142 2 года назад

I had one neighbor who had 11 pregnancies with 6 miscarriages and 5 healthy children. Another friend had 2 healthy boys, several miscarriages another healthy boy, more miscarriages and finally a daughter who had cerebral palsy, blindness and mental retardation without a genetic abnormality. Years later my friend was diagnosed with Lupus and had serious problems involving her heart, brain, kidneys and lungs.

@bridgetthewench 2 года назад

@@tastx3142 My mom calls my brother her "tie-breaker". Until him, she'd had 3 miscarriages and 3 live children.

@Holidaygal 2 года назад

Henry 8th has his own woman to do his private laundry. Records show he took a daily bath and his bed sheets were changed every day.

@nicolettaseverene2460 2 года назад

Thank you for mentioning the luck factor. I lost 5 pregnancies, even though a specialist was watching me like a hawk. After so many tests, they could never figure out what the cause was.

@Godblesslaci Год назад

Same, I've had 4. Had every test run and nothing was wrong. After 4 losses I had 2 healthy babies.

@joannahimes-murphy6897 Год назад

I'm so sorry! Hugs

@chrissyj3661 2 года назад

I'm currently reading the diaries of Lady Anne Clifford (1590-1676) and it's quite heartbreaking. She lived such a long life (died at age 86) that she out-lived many of her descendants - there's a constant littany of children, grandchildren and great grandchildren dying shortly after their birth or in later infancy. She referred to her first child (Margaret) as The Childe throughout the first section of diaries and only used her actual name from the age of 5....surely an attempt to shield herself from some trauma should she have died young. I think Henry VIII was simply a man of his times and wealth was no bar to losing multiple children.

@sitcomchristian6886 2 года назад

Wow, heartbreaking is exactly right. In a way, it's convicting. I don't cherish my own children as the blessings they are. And as a culture, we surely don't see children as a good thing. Just something to put up with. It's really a shame.

@trenae77 2 года назад

"Ok, yes. That is theoretically possible; but then again, so is Time Travel." This is my new favorite rejoinder to any bull-headed critics! As always, your video is deeply researched and delivered in a clear, concise manner with a delightfully pleasant narration.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Haha, thank you :-)

@laurenharris4591 2 года назад

Yes, i loved that, too. It made me laugh ; good start to my day

@sitcomchristian6886 2 года назад

It actually gave me pause; time travel isn't even theoretically possible....

@trenae77 2 года назад

@@sitcomchristian6886 the existence of Science fiction is a fact; within the genre time travel is a viable theory, so for argument’s sake and the act of preserving relationships, he extension is made as a plausible consideration.

@MorganChaos 2 года назад

another factor, for katherine of aragon especially, is that at the time, most of the church's advice to people was "deprive yourself of sleep and food if you want things to work out." long fasts and long nights spent praying instead of resting were probably not good for a pregnant woman! katherine was particularly devout, so we know she did these things a lot, praying for her child. (we can't really blame her for this, of course, she was doing what she legitimately believed would give her children the best chance.)

@Elfkrystal 2 года назад

Very interesting coverage of a long debated subject. And agree with you about the syphilis being unlikely (RN here). Personally I considered poor Anne Boleyn to have been unlucky when she had her losses, but thought perhaps Catherine of Aragon had an incompetent cervix due to her repeated losses. Incompetent cervix is a condition where your cervix opens too early during pregnancy. It's also called cervical insufficiency. This can cause you to have a miscarriage or to give birth too early. These days if a patient has a history of losses the would do a Cervical Cerclage. This is a purse string type stitch in your cervix to help hold it closed. It's usually done between 12 and 14 weeks of pregnancy. The stitch will be removed around 28 to 32 weeks of pregnancy.

@annbower6278 2 года назад

Agreed.

@ameliasandoval8663 2 года назад

I have IC and I was thinking this! But as a side note of someone who has had a cerclage, you don't remove it until about 36 weeks of pregnancy unless the patient is in preterm labor.

@kaseys2004 2 года назад

A friend was going to have this stitch done but unfortunately the day they went to do it the babies foot was hanging out. They had to deliver him that day because of that. He didnt make it, i think he lived 17 days but his poor heart gave out due to swelling all over his body. My friend blamed everyone even me. She would tell us we should have watched her son more often since she couldn't pick him up. (He was almost 2 when his little brother was born) i was pregnant myself and not supposed to lift heavy stuff but i still had her son most of the day, everyday. When she tried to make me feel horrible for this i ended up snapping. I said if you would have taken your vitamins like you were told and ate properly it would have helped some. She ate fudge rounds for months as well as other junk food even cokes and energy drinks.

@abbynormal4740 2 года назад

IC does seem like a feasible explanation in Catherine of Aragon's case. As for Henry, I think type II diabetes a more likely culprit than syphilis. All the added stress of Henry's obsession with producing a male heir didn't help matters either for anyone involved.

@maearcher4721 2 года назад

It's possible, she had problems delivering baby full term. Do you think that infection fallowing her 1st stillbirth could have caused this?(it lasted weeks). She also sometimes delivered baby at beginning of 3rd trimester and yet it didn't live(or not for long outside her body). Do you think that is related?

@Henry-dt9ht 2 года назад

What has struck me as significant regarding childbirth and pregnancy in the Tutor era. The accommodations that they made for the expectant mother at the time of birth. The mother's confinement in a dark room without any fresh air would contribute to making a highly stressful period for both mother and child. In some cases even the food was restricted to a diet that was supposed to be salubrious for the baby and mother. It'll give the impression that it was a very close thing that we survived the invention of the wheel and the domestication of fire.

@ronnaalthoff9175 7 месяцев назад

Also the fact they were confined to a bed was not good at all. We need to stay in shape for a healthy delivery.

@hockeygrrlmuse Месяц назад

Reminds me a lot of how Princess Charlotte's doctor had her on a starvation diet by the time she gave birth. Obviously there's some issues with male doctors ignoring the perspective of their female patients at play, but she was still the heir to the British throne and he wouldn't have set that course of treatment if he didn't truly believe it would help her. And don't even get me started on the wet nurse issue... it's a wonder so many noble children survived tbh

@hellev.8942 2 года назад

I think that the incompatibility theories make sense but also the bad luck one. I mean these queens were basically brood mares and their bodies never received enough rest to heal after a pregnancy. Mostly I feel for them because losing that many children and never being allowed to properly grieve before having to concieve the next one is hard and heart wrecking.

@puclopuclik4108 Год назад

I think it was combination of all. Let's not forget that they didn't drink water but wine and even in pregnancy. Poor hygiene and diet, nonexistent healthcare, and genetic mutations.

@annejeppesen160 Год назад

@@puclopuclik4108not exactly non-existing healthcare - more that the healthcare provided was more likely to kill you than do you no harm. The fact that they were queens might have worsened their chances as they would have had a lot of “medical” attention…

@puclopuclik4108 Год назад

@annejeppesen160 I don't think you understand what I wrote. There wasn't any health care back in the days. They based they "medial knowledge" on a combination of old Greek philosophy and Bible. It wasn't based on science, and it didn't work. You are right in one thing. You were more likely to die while being treated by a doctor than not treated at all.

@theoriginaltoba 7 месяцев назад

Also because Catherine was a very pious woman, so she would fast a lot, especially during pregnancy, and went on pilgrimage often, which explains could explain why she lost so many babies.

@theoriginaltoba 7 месяцев назад

@@puclopuclik4108the water you can blame the last of sewage system for. There was no proper sewage system until 1870, so water would be filled with faeces and all of that, so it was better to drink wine if you wanted to stay alive, and while most people, religious people, mostly, managed to have self control, kings such as Edward IV was known to have drank a lot of wine and as a result was often drunk.

@alandominicfong6907 2 года назад

I'm glad you brought up general lifestyle practices of the time as a likely reason. I think it is safe to assume that abstinence from alcohol during pregnancy was probably not observed back then, and alcohol can cause a pregnancy to terminate. Add that to unbalanced diets and a probable low level of proper exercise, and we're not talking about the healthiest people, even if they were the upper crust of society.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Absolutely. I'm sure a lot of problems were caused by things that the people of the time wouldn't have even realised were bad for women and/or their babies.

@astrothsknot 2 года назад

I'm just going to correct you on the exercise thing - knights training, sport and dancing are killer. Henry himself as a younger man was extremely fit. Healthy from his diet, I can't say, but definitely an active man.

@christinaclark9754 2 года назад

@@astrothsknot Men would have been active, women not so much.

@michelehood8837 2 года назад

This is a great point.

@onetwothree9 2 года назад

Particularly in Catherine of Aragon's case diet likely played a factor. She was known to fast regularly, even when pregnant.

@kateharris1210 Год назад

WOW I AM SO GLAD to finally see someone bringing up the idea of Rhesus incompatibility being one of the sources of the miscarriages of The Tudors. Normally the first baby would be unaffected, but all of the subsequent ones would not fare well. As someone who suffers from this condition myself, I've always thought that perhaps this may have been the issue, or one of them, with regards to the problems experienced by Boleyn. I tried to find any mention of this quite a few years ago when the internet was in its infancy and I didn't find anything. I'm happy to see this.

@forwhatone Месяц назад

If an Rh- person isn't given Anti-D after a sensitising event during pregnancy, the chance of isoimmunisation is 7 -16% - so it would be odd for every single first born baby to cause that initial sensitising event I would've thought (unless there were some drastic differences back then?). I do wonder if the Kell antigen is the more likely culprit as from what I have read it sounds like they will nearly always cause isoimmunisation during a sensitising event.

@dearoldbiddy1363 2 года назад

I looked up some info on Katherine of Aragon's siblings to see if they also had problems having children. Isabella - one son who died in infancy. Isabella died soon after the birth so no chance for another John - one child who was stillborn. John died before his child so no chance for another "Juana la Loca" - 2 boys, 4 girls, all grew up to become kings and queens no less. Maria - 10 children, 8 survived to adulthood Katherine was the youngest

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

It seems to have just been bad luck for Catherine when compared to her mother and siblings. Whatever her problem was, it doesn't appear to have been genetic.

@absolutelyalice1754 2 года назад

To be fair Isabella was noted for her extreme fasting and she died during childbirth. John's widow, Margeret of Austria, did not have any surviving children with her second husband.

@snowletsh5759 2 года назад

@@HistoryCalling the amount of stress is a huge factor as well.

@mirandagoldstine8548 Год назад

@@HistoryCalling I think it was because of the fact that her parents were second cousins (*ugh*). I have heard there are fertility problems when people who are closely related get together with those children who are conceived having problems down the road, especially when it is continued on and on. I’m looking at the Habsburg dynasty as an example. The last Habsburg king of Spain was a genetic mess due to being descended from cousin marriages and marriages between uncles and nieces. Thank the gods royalty has moved away from the concept of royals only marrying royals.

@bethphillips-ware1408 11 месяцев назад

I've always thought the RH negative with COA be the was from Spain and apparently the highest amount of people that have it come from the Bask region of Spain. Apparently like 75 percent of people

@lisalee1068 2 года назад

I would think all the women lived in fear of his temper especially after Anne. It must have been terrifying to marry and live with him, afraid every breathe he’d find some reason to behead them.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Yes, he wouldn't have been my no.1 choice for a husband. Very hard to build trust when you know he killed one or more of your predecessors.

@cathryncampbell8555 2 года назад

Thank you for a well-researched & lucid presentation. Rhesus & Kells are both plausible theories. I've always wondered whether Katherine of Aragon's intense religious practices -- including severe fasting (like her sister Isabella) -- may have had an impact on her fertility. Add stress to the list of challenges & the result may have been miscarriages. For his part, Henry is known to have had problems with impotence dating back to his marriage to Anne Boleyn, so this mixture of problems may have resulted in few healthy offspring. The ultimate irony is that the best Tudor monarch by far was a woman, Elizabeth I.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thank you. Yes, I'd love to see the look on Henry's face if we able to go back and tell him that his great successor was Elizabeth and that's she arguably more famous and certainly better thought of than him!

@passerineblue 2 года назад

Rhesus or Kells works for Katherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn. However, only 17% of the population of Britain today is rhesus negative. How likely is it that his first two wives were both rhesus negative? Anne Boleyn's problems may be due to the intense stress she was under.

@mirandagoldstine8548 Год назад

@@HistoryCalling He probably wouldn’t believe anyone.

@mirandagoldstine8548 Год назад

@@passerineblue They were both related to the Plantagenet family so it could be possible a member of the Plantagenet family had a gene that would have made them RH negative if it was dominant. The gene passed down and sadly it probably activated in them. This coupled with Catherine of Aragon being a child of inbreeding (her parents were second cousins) and her constant fasting would have contributed to her miscarriages. For Anne I have to agree the pressure of conceiving a son coupled with not being able to rest after giving birth to Elizabeth would have contributed to her problems.

@nenisguevaragomez8122 6 месяцев назад

@@passerineblueCatherine of Aragon was from Spain and I have heard 29% spaniards or basques have Rh negative.

@mackss9468 2 года назад

You’re a fantastic historian! I love how you don’t entertain the inaccurate, but far too often cited, explanations for things but instead base your conclusions solely on evidence.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thank you. I am indeed a stickler for the evidence (or at least I certainly try to be) :-)

@fabricdragon 2 года назад

the odds are pretty good that he was kell negative. it would have explained a lot of the changes that seemed to happen suddenly in his later years, including peripheral neuropathy, heart issues, weight gain, and behavior changes. mind you, many of those later symptoms can be also caused by a combination of diabetes, along with any number of neurological disorders (including a small stroke) however only Kell negative would explain ALL of it. i will also state- as someone who has suffered multiple miscarriages, and is from a mother who had multiple miscarriages, that the VAST majority of miscarriages occur early in pregnancy- and most of Henry's miscarried children happened *late* as you would expect from RH or Kell incompatibility.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

I'm very sorry to hear about you and your Mum's experiences. :-( I hope your doctors were able to give you some answers at least as to why it was happening.

@fabricdragon 2 года назад

@@HistoryCalling sadly, no but thank you I want very much to find out more but even getting your Kell status is a trial in American health care

@missanne2908 2 года назад

I'm having a problem following what you said. 91% of Europeans are kell negative; only 9% are Kell positive. Fertility problems occur when the mother is Kell negative and the father Kell positive, not the other way around. Other articles I have read about Henry VIII state that he might have been Kell positive.

@fabricdragon 2 года назад

@@missanne2908 I think the issue is whether you refer to the antibodies or the blood type.

@leahvogelsimpson 2 года назад

With all our current medical advances having a child today is scary. I can't even imagine how it must've been back then. And how horrible for these Queens to lose multiple babies. It's so sad and tragic.

@lunarubyjon594 2 года назад

To make a judgement I think it would be interesting to know the statistics, if any are available, for live births, miscarriages etc at the time in people of similar status and with similar access to medical care. I suspect this number of pregnancy/infant losses was probably not that unusual at the time so it could just be, as you suggest, down to the poor maternal care in those days.

@catherinepalmer4596 2 года назад

I believe Henry was impotent by the time of his marriage to Anne of Cleves. He was impotent, I believe, because of his weight, his agonizing leg ulcer, and possibly diabetes. He had hoped marriage to an extremely sexually attractive woman would solve the problem. Anne did not fit the bill, though she was likely not ugly at all. This explains his rage when he saw her and his quick annulment of the marriage. It also explains his rapid marriage to Katherine Howard, who was unable to solve his impotence problem and thus lost her head. By the time he got to Parr, I suspect he knew there wouldn’t be any children, and he just wanted someone to look after him.

@crystalkathuria4381 2 года назад

I always assumed it was the RH factor just based on my own biases as my husband is + and I am negative. I’m thankful that my + second born daughter was born in this era rather than tutor era.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Yes, modern medicine is certainly a wonder. I'm so glad I was born in the late 20th century!

@roslynholcomb 2 года назад

I’ve never thought any of the miscarriages and losses were extraordinary especially given the lack of recovery time and the fact that the mothers didn’t nurse their children. Miscarriages were common then and are even common now. Katherine’s early menopause always struck me as odd, though. Especially as she’d conceived so easily before then just stopped in her early thirties. At least ten years before she went into menopause in her late thirties early forties. It’s possible she and Henry stopped having sex or she developed a gynecological disorder. And of course there are rumors of an eating disorder.

@a.munroe 2 года назад

She's also the least likely to disclose medical issues. She stood the most on propriety.

@wednesdayschild3627 2 года назад

Normal menopause occurs between 40 and 58.

@roslynholcomb 2 года назад

@@a.munroe right. I’ve wondered if she might have had uterine fibroids. I first wondered about it when she supposedly miscarried one of a set of twins. Her doctors made that error based on the size of her belly and it not reducing after the loss. Large fibroids can make you look like you’re pregnant. Further depending on where they are located in the uterus they can prevent pregnancy and/or trigger a miscarriage. Also her daughter Mary had a couple of ‘hysterical’ pregnancies. Fibroids have a genetic component and Mary was said to have mysterious ailments starting as a teen. Fibroids can make the abdomen quite large. I don’t know if they existed or were known about in Tudor times, but certainly that could be an issue for both Katherine and her daughter.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

I've never heard of the eating disorder theory, unless we're counting her fasting for religious purposes (which I wouldn't put in the same category myself, but then again I suppose it depends on how much and how frequently she was doing it). It would be an interesting video to do, but YT doesn't like that kind of topic as it's considered triggering, so I might be better off steering clear of it. I don't want to do a whole video, only to have it demonetised. :-(

@roslynholcomb 2 года назад

@@HistoryCalling I definitely understand not wanting to do a video on it and RU-vid’s concerns are certainly valid. I wish I could remember which book I saw the speculation about that in, but I’ve read so many. I’ll flip through the ones I still have to see if I can find it. They may well have been talking about the religious fasting. I just don’t recall at this late date.

@stephencarrillo5905 2 года назад

As always, great research and a solid dismantling of the syphilis theory along with a good breakdown of the Rh factor. Kudos. I would agree with other viewers that poor hygiene and substandard medical care (by present day standards) are the most likely culprits. Your videos have been a high point of my year and I look forward to continuing this historical journey in 2022. Be well, stay safe and celebrate your many achievements with your loved ones. Namaste.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thanks Stephen. I'm glad you've been enjoying the channel. Yes, I think the lack of medical care and hygiene will have contributed as well. Have a good 2022 too.

@maryjoyspohrer256 2 года назад

I'm mad at myself for not thinking of the possibility of Rh -, or Rh+ being a viable reason for the trauma for the mothers. I've never heard of the Kell Incompatibility before. So thank you for the added information. I'm really glad to get a different perspective and being able to see that what I've heard about the possibility of Syphilis being a contributing factor, which I've heard about in other videos. Thank you for sharing.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

You're very welcome :-)

@c.w.8200 2 года назад

I only thought about Rhesus factors before in this case because it's said to have affected Goethe and his partner, they only had one son who survived. One of these things you learn in a German school...

@LDT7Y 2 года назад

I'm always fascinated by Rh incompatibility, as it's something most of the women in my family have had issues with and those who married Rh+ men had several miscarriages and/or problems with the surviving children. I was lucky to have 0- blood like my mother so no health issues, but both my brother and sister are Rh+ and have autoimmune disorders. I'm not sure if this was due to the incompatibility itself or an effect of the rhogam shot my mother had. It may not be relevant, but we did DNA tests and both sides of my family are royal descendents. If the miscarriages were due to the Rh factor, that's pretty tragic.

@covellin_ 2 года назад

I don't think Rh makes much sense, becaus afaik beeing Re negative is rarer, so all wifes who lost children had to be Re- which seems statistically unlikely. I don't know anything about the Kell blood type.

@LDT7Y 2 года назад

@@covellin_ It's rarer now, but that's due to several factors that have boosted the % of Rh+ babies born to Rh- women. Our numbers have decreased, but if you go back in time the % would be higher. Prior to the rhogam shot, an Rh- woman would only be able to produce max 1 Rh- child with an Rh+ partner. Whereas an Rh+ woman could have several. I'm not sure of the exact maths required, but in only a few centuries that would decrease the % of Rh- in a population compared to Rh+. We are down to about 3-4% globally now and will likely disappear in the next couple of centuries.

@nickspruytenburg1230 2 года назад

Interestingly, my mother, who was pretty well informed about the difficulties of pregnancies (her 2 children were born when she was 37 and 39) did favour the rhesus factor theory. I heard it first from her in the early 1960s, and given the problems of Catherine's siblings over the years, it's probably the soundest medical explanation. Henry's own father had lost children in infancy. Thank you for a very informative video.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

I'd need to look into the childbearing careers of Catherine's siblings as I know very little about them, but it would be interesting to compare them to her.

@jonesnori 2 года назад

Catherine's sister Joanna married a Habsburg, and they did have inbreeding-induced reproduction issues. In fact, though, one theory I've seen suggests that the Habsburg jaw actually came into the Habsburg line from Joanna, with the family inbreeding preserving and worsening it over time. A portrait of Catherine showing a jutting jaw was found to support this idea. The internet being what it is, I have no idea how reliable this theory is.

@davidlancaster6941 2 года назад

This is really comprehensive. I'm thinking it was unfortunate timing concerning the lack pregnancies, and I think your right about the miscarriages. You really did a great job. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Lvya

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thanks David and Happy New Year :-)

@ns-wz1mx 2 года назад

honestly, i’ve always just kind of thought this was up to bad luck/stress/no modern day meds. I’m with you on the syphilis thing, there’s no way no one else could’ve not shown any symptoms from having it if that were the case! really enjoyed this one. happy new year friend!

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thank you. Happy New Year to you too :-)

@vi6126 Год назад

One thing that people forget or ignore about syphillis is that people are not contagious for life, even without treatment. The contagious stage usually lasts around two years, after that syphillis is called tertiary or latent and while it damages organs it can't be transmitted So if Henry VIII had contracted syphillis early during his marriage with Catherine, he wouldn't have infected Anne. And vice versa if he had infected Anne then syphillis wouldn't have been the cause of Catherine's fertility problems.

@sheilatruax6172 2 года назад

I would very much support the rhesus theory. My dad was O positive and my mom is AB negative. I was the first Born, then there were 4 miscarriages, then my brother and sister. The medical community had come up with a way to retain rhesus positive children by then. So, from my own familial experience, this could have been the problem.

@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 2 года назад

Agreed. Plus it’s the most logical explanation, especially combined with what we know about him having been said to suffer erectile dysfunction.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Oh gosh, that's so sad for your mum and dad. I'm so sorry to read that. ☹

@AndriaBieberDesigns 2 года назад

I have Rh negative. And yes it’s a challenge.

@westaussieeggs8867 2 года назад

No, it could not have been, it is only an issue if the mother is negative, not the father.The mother's immune system fights the positive foetus and distroys it, it does not work the other way round. Henry had many sex partners so it would not have been possible that every one of these women was negative.

@wednesdayschild3627 2 года назад

Some rhesus negative women never have any problems at all, even if their children have positive. There has to be a blood exposure.

@naomiskilling1093 2 года назад

To add to the state of healthcare, there is also the fact that germ theory was several hundred years in the future and instead disease was supposedly caused by imblanaces of the humours or miasmas. This probably would have contributed to some of the children who were born but survived only a few hours/days (or weeks in poor Prince Henry's case). It isn't unlikely that infections which often killed mothers during the delivery of children also killed their children as well. I think tho that the Kells/Rhesus phenomenons probably are likely just looking at the evidence we have and without the benefit of a DNA test of Henry, his queens, or his children. Overall, the record of loss of Henry's wives is very tragic and painful to read about. I feel nothing but sympathy for all these women because I can't imagine the pain of losing a child whilst being under the kinds of pressure they were to reproduce successfully.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Yes, I think so too. I'm sure infections were introduced during childbirth, maybe even from the attendants. I feel great sympathy for them too. Without modern medicine, they could never even find out the reasons they were having difficulties.

@Theturtleowl 2 года назад

With Anne I always thought that it was stress. After Elizabeth, she must have put herself under tremendous stress to not only give birth to a healthy baby, but that baby had to be male. She knew how desperate Henry was and she knew the fate of the woman who did not succeed.

@hockeygrrlmuse Месяц назад

That is one aspect of the Philippa Gregory books that I still appreciate - she writes about that kind of stress in a very evocative way. I don't believe for a second that Anne slept with her brother or that Margaret of Anjou baldly carried on a love affair with the Duke of Buckingham, but the passages around those plot events are heartbreaking. These women were mostly young and under such strain.

@obsessivefangirl5055 2 года назад

Very informative and well researched! However, one more point we can add under the impotence theory, especially later in life, could be Henry's leg ulcer. That wound never healed, and oozed blood and pus from it every few weeks, also Henry piling on weight later in life could also account for why he was unable to effectively 'copulate' (ugh cringe) if you may, with his later three wives, if he wasn't outright impotent already.

@TheAmazingHuman 2 года назад

Referring to Henry's baby mama's pregnancies as "reproductive careers" was uncomfortablely accurate.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Oh, I hadn't really thought about it like that. I'm just always trying to find polite ways to discuss these topics that won't offend the algorithm! Yes, they were careers in the other sense too though.

@nicolettaseverene2460 2 года назад

And unfortunately being fired could really mean getting the axe!

@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 2 года назад

As queens, reproduction quite literally was their career

@joebombero1 2 года назад

One theory I do not hear being discussed is that Henry may have been mentally unstable. The surviving children and healthy babies seem to have been born to those women who spent little time with him. If Henry is not around, the infants seem healthy. If Henry is around the woman is traumatized and tormented, perhaps dangerously so.

@Erinselysion 2 года назад

I feel like there's always something new to learn about childbirth and how many things can go wrong, it's always heartbreaking to think about. It's definitely interesting as a broad topic and in terms of historical cases like this one, but absolutely sad. I appreciate the thorough and clear video!

@patrickuotinen 2 года назад

Thank you, this was interesting. Now about Kell vs. Rhesus incompatibility: by googling it, you'll find out that about 91% of the population are Kell negative but only about 15% are Rhesus negative. It isn't very likely, that all wives of Henry VIII would have been Rhesus negative, but it is likely, that they were all Kell negative, and possible, that Henry himself was Kell positive.

@maryfrump7937 7 месяцев назад

Most of his wives were cousins of his .

@forwhatone Месяц назад

Agree. It also appears to have a significantly higher rate of isoimmunisation with sensitising events; whereas untreated rhesus incompatibility has a 7 - 16% chance of isoimmunisation, so I think it would be strange that every single first child caused isoimmunisation.

@brendonmcmorrow3886 2 года назад

A very balanced and well informed discussion. I am curious as to why Catherine of Aragon no longer became pregnant after 1518, given that she was only 32 at the time of her final miscarriage. Do you think it could have been the result of an early menopause? Her mother-in-law Elizabeth of York became pregnant in her late 30s so there is no reason to think a woman could not remain fertile well into her fourth decade in the early 16th century. Catherine was noted for intense religious observance, notably periods of fasting. Could this have been a factor in her inability to conceive after 1518? Her daughter Mary was known to have had an irregular menstrual cycle. Might this have been somehow connected to Catherine’s own fertility issues from 1518 onwards? Whatever happened, it does seem strange that an evidently fertile woman suddenly lost the ability to conceive early in her 30s.

@dfuher968 2 года назад

Or, it may not have had anything to do with Catherine. Maybe Henry had just become tired of her and instead focused on his mistresses and his increasing obsession of getting rid of poor Catherine. Its certainly the simplest explanation. And Henry wasnt exactly some1, who remained interested in any woman for an extensive period of time, once he was able to sleep with them. And back then it was always blamed on the woman, if there were fertility problems, or if the infants were stillborn or died in infancy or early childhood. They even blamed the women for a lack of male children, which we know today has nothing to do with the women, but is decided by the mans sperm. There are several historical examples of royal or aristocratic men on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th marriage being desperate for a male heir, so they actually looked for families with many sons, coz surely the 1 daughter among would then be able to bear many sons.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

I've wondered that myself, as it is early to become menopausal. Perhaps there was internal damage, but we'll never know.

@brendonmcmorrow3886 2 года назад

@@dfuher968 I am sure the shine had long gone from the marriage by 1518. But this doesn’t mean that Henry wasn’t still committed to his union with Catherine in dynastic terms. He still hoped for a male heir by Catherine until well into the 1520s when it became clear that Catherine’s child bearing days were definitively over. Even then, his initial approach was to work with the children he had by seeking a grand marriage for Princess Mary, his only surviving child by Catherine, or promoting the position of his illegitimate son, Henry Fitzroy. By the way, Catherine came from a notably fruitful family, with her sisters Juana and Maria giving birth to many children, including healthy sons. She was also the perfect Royal consort in every way other than her tragic inability to give birth to a healthy son. It was the ignition of Henry’s intense passion for Anne Boleyn in 1526 that really rocked the boat for Catherine.

@maearcher4721 2 года назад

Early menopause is most likely the explanation. If her fasting was factor in this, idk. But her mum's last child child(Catherine) got born when she was 33. Catherine's last child was born at age of 32(nearly 33). Genetics are huge factor in menopause, and from her sisters only Maria was alive and had husband, when turning past 33, she died at childbirth aged 35, but maybe she'd not have another child after that. Ferdinand's mother had her youngest child at age 30(she also had old husband), and Isabella's mother at age 25(but her husband died just the fallowing year)-so nobody would really know for sure if those ladies were going through menopause in ealry to mid 30s, but it is possible! As for Elizabeth of York, her mother Elizabeth Woodville had her last child aged c.43(nobody knows month she was born) and she wasn't only tudor lady to deliver babies even in their early 40s. Henry certainly slept with Catherine up to 1525, describing their sex in last few years of marriage as suddenly impleasant. People think it is because he no longer liked her, but it could have been due to changes asociated with menopause. Mary had irrregilar cycle as did Catherine. This can also be genetical.

@brendonmcmorrow3886 2 года назад

@@maearcher4721 You may well be right but, of course, we’ll never know for sure. We do know that Catherine of Aragon was fertile so it probably worked against her to have married Henry at the ‘mature’ age of 23 when some of her best child bearing years had already passed. It seems reasonable to think that Henry would have been sexually potent from the age of 14 or 15 so she may have given birth a few more times had she been able to marry him in, say, 1505. And who knows what would have happened if Arthur had lived a bit longer. You have to sympathise with her position.

@freedpeeb 2 года назад

Interestingly there has been a study showing a link between the father's health, namely metabolic syndrome, and stillbirths. Henry probably ate a diet heavy in fats from the time he was able to eat. Those poor mothers. Such heartache.

@kieranmahon4382 2 года назад

The thing about the blood theories is that it's hard to believe so many of his partners were of incompatible blood groups.

@Phelie315 Год назад

True. I don't know about Kell but I think only like 10-15% of the population are rh- so it would be pretty unlikely that all of his wives were. But who knows, could be a combination of several reasons as well.

@br4524 Год назад

Well some of them were related

@ettinakitten5047 7 месяцев назад

@@Phelie315 It could be that only Catherine of Aragon was Rh-, since she's the only wife who had notably poorer pregnancy outcomes than expected for the time period. Anne's two miscarriages could've been just bad luck.

@forwhatone Месяц назад

If you look up some info on the Kell antigen, 90 - 91% of the population are Kell negative. So if he was Kell postive...

@vanessa.jasmine 2 года назад

I wonder if sweating sickness had something to do with it? Both Catherine and Anne survived "the sweat", but I wonder if it effected fetal development?

@lilymarinovic1644 2 года назад

Interesting...or perhaps Henry himself contracted some disease or illness (not syphilis of course!) that rendered him sterile.

@lindsaypettitt6806 2 года назад

@@lilymarinovic1644 There is a theory that he developed diabetes later in his life.

@AthenaVelecta 2 года назад

Henry's migraines could have been from the stress and pressure to ensure having enough male children to have one of his sons on the throne. Even though he did have Edward having two or three sons would have been better considering that he could not guarantee that Edward would live long enough to produce his own heir.

@ettinakitten5047 7 месяцев назад

And, in fact, Edward did not live long enough, so he was right to worry.

@Kari_B61ex 2 года назад

The rhesus theory rings true with me - I'm A negative (anti Rh D ) I had one successful birth, then three miscarriages, then spent 34 weeks in bed before my 2nd daughter was born healthy. I was told that I could have had an unknown miscarriage when I wasn't given an Anti D vaccine after miscarriage, so my body rejected future pregnancies as being alien. I also have strange irregular rare blood as a gene in my bone marrow doesn't switch off the blood production - I have Polycythaemia Rubra Vera, my Jak2 gene has no off switch - without medical intervention my blood is like treacle. Thank the lord for modern day science.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

I'm so sorry to hear about your losses. I can't even imagine how heart-breaking that must have been for you. I'm happy to read that you have 2 healthy daughters though and I'm glad that you at least got an answer as to what the problem was. I really feel for Catherine of Aragon who will never have known what (if any) issue was causing her pregnancy losses.

@pelicanus4154 10 месяцев назад

I've always wondered, given the poor state of his health & the vile odor given off by his leg ulcer, whether he consummated either of his last two marriages. Love to know your take on that one.

@millybell5858 2 года назад

Thank you so much for these videos. I found your channel a few weeks ago and I've watched nearly all of your videos. They are so well narrated, researched and formatted, and as I have a deep interest in this period, I find that they satiate my appetite for history! This is by far the best channel I've found - please keep uploading! P.S. Please can you do a video on Mary Boleyn as she's such an interesting figure and there's so much conflicting information out there about her. Also, I'd love a video about your opinion on historical fiction from the period (Phillipa Gregory, Hillary Mantel etc), and maybe how accurate they are (like your Hollywood vs history video). Thanks so much again and sorry for the long comment!

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Hi Millie, thanks for watching and commenting. Mary Boleyn is certainly on the list. We actually don't know that much about her I think. A lot of it is conjecture, so it would be interesting to sift out the fact from the fiction. In short, I think Hilary Mantel is excellent and Phillipa Gregory less so (if you're looking for historical accuracy that is). Still, she's very successful at what she does and has brought the Wars of the Roses in particular and the women involved in them to many people's attention, so that's certainly a big plus.

@susanorr8348 2 года назад

Catherine of Aragon and also anne Boleyn could have delivered stillborn/premature infants as a result of Chlamydia infection of Henry’s since he was known to be quite “the man about town.”

@nancykropf3809 2 года назад

Totally agree with you. As a woman who dealt with major infertility, miscarriages, and very sick babies(who lived thank God) there are so many things that can go wrong, especially with the high infant mortality rate. I feel so bad for these women and all women who have had to deal and are dealing with them.

@SensualWhirl 2 года назад

There’s been fairly recent research done on fertility that suggest that sperm quality is responsible for recurrent miscarriage in some cases. Factors like age, obesity and underlying illness can all affect the quality of sperm. Horse riding has been implicated in male fertility issues too. The irony also that Henry so wanted a son, and as we now know, it’s the man’s genetic contribution that determines the sex of a child. Henry’s swimmers probably weren’t the best.

@kleopatra6234 2 года назад

Your theory makes much more sense than the author's. Bottom line is Henry's problems were sperm quality or syphilis. And considering Henry's many many infidelities along with the patriarchal society and unsanitary conditions that prevailed in Europe at the time, my money is on either one of the above. Bringing up modern day diseases like Rhesus D(what we've learned from Rhesus monkeys) and the Kell syndrome is giving Henry a free pass. It's like saying Covid-19 never came from China.

@emilywyatt9340 2 года назад

God help you if you told Henry. His jousting and eating was breaking his lance. It was always the Tudor woman's fault,never the man's oh no.

@jerrymoore838 7 месяцев назад

He sired multiple males. Only two of the confirmed ones survived into their teens

@TiffanySommerfeld Год назад

The wives could be RH-, food quality a possibility, high crazy stress, or it could be all Henry's fault

@WangBaiTe 2 года назад

Great video! I see only one very small error: you state that Syphilis was a fairly new problem in the time of Henry VIII. Until very recently that was the general idea (I was told that at university in 1982 by one of my professors illustrating it with a map of Europe that showed the progress of Syphilis in Europa after the discovery of the Americas). However, a few years ago graves were discovered in northern Europe containing bodies that had all the markers of syphilis. From what I know the people in the graves dated from somewhere in the 9th-10th century. So Syphilis was probably already going round in Europe before the 16th century but was very latent. Only with the arrival of the first crews back from the Americas did the fast spreading of Syphilis started. Interesting to know is that the casualties in northern Europe were in all probability “Norsemen” who came back from what they called “Vinland”. Historians usually agree that Syphilis was “a present” the indigenous people of the Americas gave to the conquistadors. I would agree with your last theory; the stress if these women and the fact that they consumed a lot of alcohol during pregnancy looks to be the most probable cause of all the miscarriages.

@marietgagliardi 2 года назад

I'm rhesus negative and very thankful for the excellent care I received that allowed my a positive baby to be delivered healthy. I just can't imagine what poor Katherine experienced

@suran396 6 месяцев назад

Thank-you for commenting and congratulations on your little one! Hope everything is going great! Would you mind answering a few questions about the condition?

@marietgagliardi 6 месяцев назад

@@suran396they give you a shot after a positive baby so you don't develop antibodies that will attack future positive babies

@erinnh3203 2 года назад

I think the most likely option is that it was simply bad luck, or a combination of factors we may never know. Sanitation wasn’t the best and various illnesses could have resulted in miscarriages. I think humans like to have an answer to everything, and this may be a case of no one answer. I’ve previously thought the Rh factor compelling, but I find the “bad luck” option more likely. ETA - Above only accounts for the losses by his partners. I think the reason he didn’t have children later was really due to his various maladies and impotence.

@nicolefornuto7177 2 года назад

i agree,and i'd add a that nutrition back then wasn't the best,which doesn't sound good for pregnant women back then

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Yes, I think sometimes the simplest explanation is the best too. Different wives may have had different issues too. Certainly I think the later wives' childlessness indicates an issue on Henry's side though, just as Anne Boleyn noted.

@jeannemariagriffin5820 2 года назад

Well presented documentary. Antonia Fraser also offered the theory that Anne Boleyn was Rhesus negative in her Henry VIII and His Six Wives biography.

@bdazzleddesigns9219 2 года назад

It has been speculated his own mother and grandmother, Elizabeth Woodville, put a generational curse on their own family line.

@mcluce9731 2 года назад

My daughter and I look forward to your videos every week. We love history

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed this one :-)

@tqtownsend 2 года назад

While of course you were analyzing the likelihood of primary causes, Henry's diet and health would have been a likely contributing factor. He had many symptoms consistent with gout and Type II diabetes, and he certainly was obese. These conditions all negatively affect fertility.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Yes, that could certainly have been an issue and contributed to later fertility/performance issues on his part. I think he was pretty healthy during his marriage to Catherine though and still in reasonable shape whilst with Anne. It's from the mid-1530s on in my opinion that there was a really noticeable decline.

@abbynormal4740 2 года назад

@@HistoryCalling Agreed. From the various documentaries I've seen a books read on Henry VIII, it seems that his weight problems (plus his personality changes) flared up after his jousting accident because he wasn't physically active like he was before he was injured. Anne Boleyn also blamed her final miscarriage on the shock of hearing about the accident.

@anthonycalbillo9376 2 года назад

Quality, nothing unnecessary, your videos are always family appropriate.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thank you (though I'd maybe steer young children away from some of the execution/dead body stuff - I don't want to be responsible for any nightmares!) :-)

@KayKayon 2 года назад

Honestly, I think the biggest problem is that medicine wasn’t advanced enough. There wasn’t enough knowledge about warning signs in pregnancy, especially in relation to the late term miscarriages and stillbirths. As for newborns dying quickly, it’s likely the lack of knowledge about pathogens that was a big factor. Another factor may have been the techniques and procedures surrounding birth weren’t advanced.

@kateredhead7334 Год назад

In the early 20th century my grandmother buried 2 of her 6 children, both boys. Child and maternal death are still common in poor countries. We have forgotten how brutal life truly is.

@aliciarogers7285 2 года назад

These videos are so nicely done! I never knew how interesting all of this history was! I learned all about US history, but so little about world history in school! I'm going through and really enjoying these 🥰

@howtubeable Год назад

Impressive video! Rational and objective history. Not only were we given factual and scientific evidence, but I actually felt some compassion for the Tudors. An impressive feat.

@Rhaenarys 2 года назад

I know it's just a TV show, but pretty good one, and not horrible with historical inaccuracies. In The Tudors, Catherine Parr never even sleeps with Henry in order to have a child, as it wasn't really expected of her at that time in his life. In the show, by that point, he just wanted a companion to be his queen that he was fully aware of her past as well, hence why she was a good pick, as she couldn't hide she'd already slept with someone, since she was a widow. Now, obviously some of it is made up to make up for the info we don't really have, like very private conversations and thoughts and such. But I actually wonder if there's truth in that, i.e. he never expected Catherine Parr to sleep with him, just care for him and be a companion. It would add reasons to why he never had any kids with her, though we do know he had some sort of disease or genetic issue that kept his offspring from being able to be accepted and attached in pregnancy. Basically, the short answer for this whole question had to do with the fact he had something that made his offspring seem like aliens to most women's bodies (simplest explanation. OBVIOUSLY not scientific explanation lol). He could fertilize eggs, but the mothers bodies would essentially abort them as foreign and dangerous DNA. Women's bodies already do this to many embryos, making sexually active women miscarry much more than they realize. While the female body is made to have children, the body itself is made to fight any foreign invaders, and fertilized eggs are exactly that. Henry had a condition that made it nearly impossible for majority of women's bodies to accept the foreign DNA as their own baby. This is again, simple terms.

@naomiskilling1093 2 года назад

I doubt that Catherine wouldn't have been expected to fulfill all the duties expected of a wife in the Tudor times and that included getting pregnant and giving the king an heir (or spare by this point). Henry could have had a caregiver in his many many servants and so I don't see why he would have needed a wife specifically for that purpose. It's probably more likely that by this point Henry was simply suffering infertility as a result of his age and also his health problems.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

I'm sure he did want companionship and a Queen to oversee his court, but I must admit that I never imagine her as a nurse myself, as I think that would have been the servants' job. As for whether they consummated the marriage, we'll likely never know, but I would imagine it was at least attempted. I do think her widowhood took some of the pressure off her to be pure as the driven snow though, which was very fortunate for her.

@lifespanwellnessbeauty-60i64 7 месяцев назад

The Kell problem sounds likely to me. I love these videos! Im a new subscriber!❤

@lisahopkins9117 2 года назад

My great grandma lost two babies to the Rh factor, only my grandma (her firstborn) survived. This was in the late 30s/early 40s. 😔

@suzannepassow1344 2 года назад

Henry was a diabetic with an open wound that never really healed. Diabetics have a great deal of fertility issues when their blood sugar is not controlled.

@sarahwade6720 2 года назад

My bf is 52 years old and diabetic. Last few years, he has had issues with staying "up." His blood sugar is disgustingly high.

@ah5721 2 года назад

Generally women need a time to heal and regain lost vitamins from having babies. Thats why in most cases alot of women wait a year or two before trying again. With the pressure to produce heirs its possible that getting pregnant quickly after the last baby made them lose their next pregnancy because their bodies just couldn't handle that much loss of nutrients.

@McRambleOn 2 года назад

Thanks for analyzing this subject so thoroughly- GREAT video and VERY interesting! I always assumed syphilis was to blame for later marriages and Catherine of Aragon had an unfortunate gyno issue. I believe I was taught that in school, so I’m glad ppl are changing tune.

@charliekezza 2 года назад

Syphilis fertility symptoms are basically describing Henry and his wives

@Baileaf11 2 года назад

Finally a history channel that gets straight the the point and doesn’t mess around with useless information

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thank you :-) I aim to please :-)

@t.m.9231 2 года назад

Alcoholism - explains Henry's impotence, health issues, early death, and terrifying behavior.

@AN-tn8nw 2 года назад

Rhesus or Kell makes a lot of sense (especially with Anne Boleyn) to me, but also to me that is just more bad luck, since obviously no one then was close to understanding anything like blood types. I also think Henry Duke of Cornwall’s death was just bad luck too - but sadly his wives were always ‘to blame’ to Henry.

@justineharper3346 Год назад

I have absolutely no proof that this happened with them, but when I was desperately trying to have my second child, it took me three years. It took over a year to even conceive, and then I had three consecutive miscarriages. I think some of the issue was the stress I was putting on myself because I was obsessed and desperate to have another baby. Once I gave up, I was pregnant with my daughter within a couple months and then became pregnant with my son before she was even one even though I was actively trying to NOT get pregnant. The relevance here is that I’m sure these women were under an ENORMOUS amount of pressure. That can’t have helped their bodies in conceiving and carrying a healthy baby. I also subscribe to the idea that Henry was impotent or at the very least had trouble performing, most likely stemming from Type 2 diabetes. It make sense with the Tudor’s love of sugar and the weight he put on after his jousting accident. That would explain the sores on his leg that wouldn’t heal as well

@amymahers2957 2 года назад

Great effort on your part to break down all of these possibilities! I’ve always thought poor hygiene, lack of practical medical skills, following old wives tales, etc, were the causes of the miscarriages of Henry’s wives. Birthing fatalities for both mother and child were extremely common during this period and until basic hygiene practices became the norm. It’s could be a combination of all of them. I’m not hopeful if ever knowing for sure, but it is an interesting subject. Thanks, once again, you always make me think! Hope your New Year is a blessed one.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thanks Amy. I find the lack of cleanliness and good medical care pretty terrifying too and I'm sure it cost many mothers and babies their lives. Have a wonderful 2022 too :-)

@jonesnori 2 года назад

Don't blame the old wives for the bloodletting and other negative treatments. Male doctors brought those in.

@manateerules 2 года назад

Adore your rational style. Nothing to add or comment since you seem to work scientifically and your research is thoroughly. Informative, not speculative. Exactly what we need in times like that. Thank you.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

You're very welcome. Thank you for watching :-)

@xminusone1 2 года назад

Stress could be a major factor. Simplistic too.

@michellebruce5092 2 года назад

Great history video I enjoyed it can't wait to see more soon your videos are always enjoyable 😀 greetings from Canada 😀

@danielasarmiento30 2 года назад

Before I started seeing all the medical theories, I always believed the constant losses were because of stress. Cartherine must have had all the pressure of needing and heir to fulfill her duty, Anne with the added pressure of knowing she could be discarded for failure, and Jane with the added fear of being killed for failing. The mistresses I never took into account, mainly because Henry's eye wandered too much and he had the habit of not going after women for a long time. I do imagine they would've been iin less stress, though as the only child we know of is Henry Fitzroy we'll never know for sure. We don't hear much about mistresses after Anne lost her head, so part of me believed he decided the switching wives thing was better than the ilegitimate woman. I currently wonder if it was more effort to deal with doing the do with the legitimate wife to put the energy with the mistresses. After all, if his leg issues flared to worse sometime after impregnating Jane, there's a chance his impotency problems were well settled and not new by the time Anna of Cleves came along. She was the reson he had to admit them though. The reason we wonder if it was a medical issue is, I think, because Henry went to ridiculous lengths to have more children, from destroying religion in his country to killing his own wife to marry another. No one is wondering if Henry V had issues with diseases or infertility, and he only had one son. It is a reputation done on Herny's own obsession

@jenyoung3863 11 месяцев назад

@jerrymoore838 7 месяцев назад

He had more than one son but only 2 of them (that he acknowledged fathering) survived past infancy and into their teens

@Orphen42O 2 года назад

As a dynasty, the Tudors had trouble producing male heirs that lived to adulthood. Arthur, Henry Fitzroy and Edward VI died young. In her marriage to Charles Brandon, Mary Tudor had a son named Henry who died young. Mary Tudor's daughters had surviving daughters but no sons. From her marriage to the King of Scotland, Margaret Tudor only had one son who reached adulthood. This son lost all of his male children with Marie de Guise, leaving his daughter Mary to become Queen of Scotland. Neither Queen Mary or Queen Elizabeth had any children. Margaret Douglas, their cousin, lost both her sons/ Lord Darnley, her first son, was murdered. Charles, her second son, died young after fathering a daughter. Although the exact cause of death of the Tudor boys, it is possible that respiratory problems contributed to the high mortality rate. Consumption seems to have been the likely cause of so many deaths among Tudor males.

@CharlotteHoogenboom 2 года назад

“But then again so is time travel” made me laugh so hard.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thank you 😀 It's tough to find moments of levity in a video on a topic like this, but I like to try 🙂

@sqseq1237 2 года назад

3:15 According to Wikipedia, the first girl from 1510 was stillborn.

@heatherr0420 2 года назад

As I supposed illegitimate descendant of Henry the 8th, a family Legend I am still trying to figure out if it's true or not, I found this especially interesting. Thank you very much for posting this

@jopadbury7627 2 года назад

Hi, I'm a decendent from Catherine Cary who was Mary Boleyn daughter and possibly Henry VIII but will never know. I hope you find your links x

@romancetips365 Год назад

My ancestor managed to escape him, luckily.

@raeniedai9706 Год назад

In my very humble opinion it was the fact that both Katherine and Anne had the sweating sickness that led to their child bearing issues

@jeanthompson9873 2 года назад

Although not the only answer to noble children's deaths,I've always wondered that the high born women did not breastfeed their babies, and therefore the babies lost that important Colostrum needed to fight infection. Wet nurses would not be used just after their own children's birth,but when milk supply had been established. I also like the Keller idea.I am anti-K probably from a blood transfusion. Luckily I only had one more child after it.I was very lucky .I feel for Henry's wives.Yes I've always thought that he would have been successful with Ann of Cleaves.

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Yes, I think had he been able to consummate the marriage with Anne of Cleves the English royal family would have had German blood in it much sooner too. There's no reason to suppose she wouldn't have been able to produce children.

@mistrzyninowicjatu8938 Год назад

It is entirely plausible that Kathrine lost a lot of her babies due to how religious she was. Many historians point out she routinely fasted for days, including during pregnancy, and used various forms of punishment on the body, be it physical or deprivation of basic needs, believing that would let her have a healthy son. There was a documentary a while ago showing how her stillborn pregnancies line up with her pattern of being very physically weak and refusing food for days.

@leeblack6139 2 года назад

Fascinating theories. I had never heard of either of the two medical conditions before. I would venture though, after hearing the evidence presented now, Kell's or the 'bad luck' seem the best fits. By the way Congrats on your wild success this year. I'm glad I found this channel. Who says you can't learn anything on RU-vid?

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thanks Lee. Yes, I think people don't consider sheer bad luck often enough. Happy New Year :-)

@GoGreen1977 2 года назад

Another question I have, but related, concerns my observation that Tudor boys that survived early childhood died in their teens. Obviously, Henry didn't, but his brother, his legitimate son, and his illegitimate son all died in their teens. His sister, Mary, the "French Queen" and wife of Charles Brandon, had one, if not two sons who died sometime after their early childhood, but since I can't verify the timing of their births, indeed, if there was one or two, I can't be sure of their respective ages. One record I came across indicated she had one son who died as a teenager in the mid-1530s, but another record indicated she had two sons, one who died as pre-teen, followed later by another who died as a child. Regardless, their deaths contributed to the lack of male heirs for the Tudors. I'm sure Charles Brandon would have loved the idea of being the father of a king of England!

@edithengel2284 11 месяцев назад

Not only did Charles Brandon lose at least one son by Mary Tudor, but he also lost his two sons by his subsequent marriage at a young age (from disease). But I'm not sure that all these deaths were beyond normal rates of death of young men of the period.

@csh43166 2 года назад

So many possibilities. Rh factor could definitely have played a factor. I think it's also possible long-term genetic problems resulting from past inbreeding may even have played a role, even if it was no longer being practiced, because sometimes they cause issues in a fetus, and sometimes not Given the conditions and statistics at the time, it could also very well just be bad luck, and/or unhealthy practices. Most likely, however, there probably isn't just one easy answer. Very interesting video - so glad I found your YT channel! Wishing you and yours a Happy & Healthy 2022!

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

A few people have mentioned English royal inbreeding and I think I'll do a video at some point on it. In a nutshell though, I feel it's not as bad as people think. It's rare to even see first cousins marrying (I'm just thinking about the Kings and Queens here as it's too unmanageable to think about all their siblings as well) and I wouldn't be at all surprised if you found much worse inbreeding in small towns and villages all across the British Isles and right up to the 20th century when people began to move around much more. It's much easier to trace royal family trees though, which is why I think people get more fixated on how closely they were related to one another. Have a lovely 2022 as well. Thank you for watching :-)

@sarahhayse-gregson689 2 года назад

@@HistoryCalling I read somewhere that certain villages sent their daughters to work in homes or farms well away from their birth place to avoid that from happening.

@csh43166 2 года назад

@@HistoryCalling I would love to see a video on that topic!

@ettinakitten5047 7 месяцев назад

Inbreeding doesn't continue to cause problems in generations that aren't resulting from consanguious parents. Inbreeding is a problem because it increases the probability of getting the same genetic allele from both parents - however, if a deeply inbred person marries an unrelated partner, their children are not likely to get the same allele from both parents.

@4Mr.Crowley2 2 года назад

And his only two “surviving” sons, Prince Edward and Henry Fitzroy, were often sickly, and both boys died before adulthood (in modern language they died as minor children before the age of majority - Edward never was formally king for this reason)

@edithengel2284 11 месяцев назад

Edward was quite definitely king, acclaimed and crowned 20 February, 1547. Edward was not sickly in early childhood; accounts of Fitzroy's health vary quite a bit.

@Atm0111 2 года назад

Very interesting subject! I wont pretend to know anything abt genetics, but always thought Henry became impotent, plus health and general lack of good health care for the mothers was to blame. When it comes to childbirth, im thankful for advances in the medical field bc so many babies and mothers wouldnt make it without it! What an amazing video, thank you and happy new year!

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

You're very welcome and Happy New Year to you too :-)

@dr.kristinedukeawc6799 2 года назад

Great analysis. I love your rationalization and could not agree more. I tend to believe there might have been a rhesus/kell issue with Anne, but the other issue was due to the time period.

@chroniclesoflaura 2 года назад

I’m rhesus negative. Neither me or my family knew of it until I was pregnant for the first time. Strange to think my body would “kill off” any more children. Must have caused such issues before modern medicine.

@MK_Nay 2 года назад

I have been so curious about this topic. Thank you for such an amazing video!! As always, I look forward to your next one! I pray you have a happy, healthy, and blessed 2022!

@HistoryCalling 2 года назад

Thank you. Have a wonderful 2022 as well :-)