Tumbling Bullets? "Think about it"

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22 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 103

@lovetoflylovetofly3843 3 года назад

Great video...being a mechanic myself, and knowing how fast a projectile was spinning when it left the barrel, I could never see how it could "tumble". I have only had 1 projectile not stabilize, and well....I didn't use anymore of them. Thanks Mark and Sam.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Thanks Man, yes, good plan, Cheers

@SigmaBallistics 3 года назад

Yes, hundreds of thousands of rpm sounds like it could never tumble, but the drag of the air on the nose of the projectile moving thousands of feet per second is also a very massive force.

@robertduncan2742 3 года назад

It would be like a tire going out of balance and the steering wheel start wiggling.

@tenaciousjeebs 2 года назад

I've shot some range guns in .223 and they were tumbling by 25 yards - I'm assuming that's just due to incredibly poor quality bullets / fouled barrels / or mismatch of bullet to barrel.

@john1349 3 года назад

A (non precision rifle) misconception also developed around the M16/AR-15. Observations about how the 223/5.56 tends to ricochet when it hits bone lead some to describe it as tumbling. I’d run across people who thought that meant the bullet tumbled through the air to do that! Funny. Yes, a guy key holing at the range, something is going pretty wrong.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Yep, lol, Cheers

@jcarne1015 3 года назад

The original M16 had a 1-14 twist rate, designed to marginally stabilize 55gr projectiles. The idea was for the bullets to destabilize on impact, and create a devastating wound channel, rather than punch straight through. Unfortunately, if the projectile hit a twig or other small object enroute to the intended target, it most likely wouldn’t get to the target. The first upgrade was to a 1-12 twist. Later on, when the need to defeat Soviet body armor became a priority, the 1-7 twist rate and 62 gr projectiles with steel penetrators in the tips were adopted. The trade off was lower lethality, as the projectiles pass straight through soft tissue.

@jamesstewart9970 3 года назад

One of my personal favorites I’d hear a lot when shooting F-TR was that a 168gr .30 cal SMK would tumble before it reached 1000 yards, you’d actually hear it so much there’s RU-vid videos on it and it not stabilize to 1000 anymore, it would just magically stop flying stable and start going end over end. On more than one occasion I’ve proved that theory wrong. If it was adequately stable to begin with it shouldn’t tumble at all.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Agreed, never used them, but sure heard about them, lol, cheers

@timrink256 3 года назад

Well said. Thanks for the video.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Thanks Tim

@kriszml 3 года назад

I just love to listen to you. I am learning a lot. Thank you.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Cheers Man, thanks

@jcarne1015 3 года назад

Thanks Mark. Good insight as usual.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Cheers Man, thanks

@michaelreed1380 3 года назад

Well, there goes my excuse. I didnt really believe it myself anyway, thanks for the education on the subject. Cheers!

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Hi Mike, you wont be alone there, lol, cheers

@kcrowl1 3 года назад

Fantastic video!!! To be perfectly honest, it’s mind numbing to watch you hit 24x24” at 3006 yards and farther!!! Unbelievably great shooting!!! You guys are King and Queen on RU-vid! BTW, your little rants end up to be a video filled with so much helpful information 😂

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Lol, thanks KC, Cheers

@jasonmartin7364 3 года назад

Very well said my friend!! And throughly explained. Extremely hard to come on (4aw) and Not learn something new to sport or not!! Thanks very much Mark!!! Keep u great work and Godbless

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Cheers Jason, thanks man.

@lessharratt8719 3 года назад

Thanks for the info. I had NO idea that a bullet spun that fast. I never really thought about it but I am still surprised. Cheers.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Yep, lol, Cheers

@icorezx14r 3 года назад

Another thought provoking video. Thanks for bringing a little sanity into this crazy world!

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Thanks Man, cheers

@ronaldhendricks3876 3 года назад

You have a way of explaining this much more scientific than me lol A friend was asking me about it and my analogy was to compare it to throwing an American football. If you throw a tight “spiral” the ball can consistently get to a target 40, 50 or 60 yds down field. The less stable the pass the more the “group” of passes will open up down field. However, if you grab the football by the tip and sling it as hard as you can to simulate “tumbling” the ball will be LUCKY to travel 30 yds and lack any consistency whatsoever. People don’t seem to understand that a bullet being unstable does not necessarily equal “tumbling.”

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Yep, Cheers

@chethaynes5802 3 года назад

Great Report. Thank You.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Thanks Chet

@garyh.7282 3 года назад

Years ago I had heard stories of 264 Win Mag having bullets disintegrate when driven to max velocity. Seems the jacket material and twist rate caused the problem. Maybe that's where your vanishing bullets went.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Well no, but as said, something was going on like that, lol, Cheers

@TMS5100 3 года назад

There's a video of rifle bullets exploding downrange due to being spun too fast, it's pretty crazy. You can actually see them exploding in the air.

@chrismckoy3533 3 года назад

@@TMS5100 the early 6.5 147 grain ELD-Ms come to mind.

@kubikariYOU 3 года назад

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Cheers

@DanielBoone337 3 года назад

Only time I've ever seen a bullet tumbling is if I'm shooting a bullet to heavy/long for the twist rate like you just said... I've never shot 3000 yards in my life but I shoot out to 1000 yards behind my house and know wind can make a big difference at that short of a range (short of a range compared to what yall shoot that's still a pretty good ways for me) so I can only imagine how much it can push yalls shots around. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Thanks again Dan, Cheers

@dwayneparkhurst5370 3 года назад

Great explanation!

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Thanks man, Cheers

@blackhawk7r221 2 года назад

Ft. Sill back in the late 90’s. Grouping and zeroing trainees on the 25m range with M-16A2’s and M855 green tips. Had one rifle printing keyholes at only 25 meters.

@markandsamafterwork 2 года назад

Yup, happens, Cheers

@chrismckoy3533 3 года назад

Very objective as usual Mark. Cheers.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Cheers

@TMS5100 3 года назад

I've seen actual keyholing at 100 yards when a suppressor was cross threaded and not mounted straight. Not only were the rifle bullet holes sideways, they were also massively off target. Very lucky we didn't get baffle strikes. But it was an early warning something was _very_ messed up.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

That will do it, lol, Cheers

@scottrussell6717 3 года назад

In 25 years I have been lucky and never seen it... good job

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Cheers Scott, thanks

@Allen338LM 3 года назад

Makes sense to me only time I ever seen a key hole was with a smooth bore shooting a bullet like when I shot a 50bmf out of a 12g

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

That would do it, lol, Cheers

@Slipprymongoose 3 года назад

Was going to say did those odd ones that didn’t make the target be a case of the bullet flying apart on its way there like the jacket wasn’t as bonded to the core as the others and it spun itself to bits? But yeah can’t argue there you watch the footy and see the same thing in effect essentially. Another thing it’s easy to forget what a MOA size actually is at your ELR ranges.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Yep, Cheers man, thanks

@amirdzaferovic3489 3 года назад

Great Video!

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Thanks again, Amir, all the best.

@JB-ro3sz 3 года назад

It really is mind blowing that a person can fire a rifle and the projectile can impact a target at distance repeatedly with the precision that it does. It is also a testament to the capability and accuracy of the human eye.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Yep, Cheers

@walterluiz4694 3 года назад

Simple that. Very good.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

cheers Walter

@westtexas3041 3 года назад

I loved your rant. I did make think.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Lol, Cheers

@rideswift 3 года назад

I thought this was going to be about polishing bullets in a tumbler LOL...great video though, Thanks Mark!

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Cheers

@joebotics8761 3 года назад

it would be awesome to have a high speed camera capture the bullet in those final yards before hitting the target after flying 3000 yards! :-)

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

We have a few of those images, but need $$$ for the real thing, Cheers

@rt66rc86 3 года назад

The only experience that I've had with bullets "tumbling" is when trying to set them on top of the rifle cartridge in the seating die, and they escape the nimble grasp of my seasoned fingers... ;)

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Lol, Cheers

@Michael_Mears 3 года назад

I see an elongated hole more often when trying to sneak in that last shot before the turning targets turn away ;-) From experience and observation, cast handgun bullets may tumble due to mismatched alloy type/sizing die used/twist/velocity combinations. Under-sized too much could be also maybe too much or too heavier crimp on a soft pill. Sometimes very deep seated bullets are partly undersized by the case wall. You know, the more I think back on things, some cast handgun bullets moulds or profiles just look like they're going to work well, and others just look dubious. I can see your point, though: if a bullet is tumbling, that's not going to be a reason for near misses within a few MOA. She's not going to make it, and that's all there is to it.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Yep, thanks Mike, Cheers

@fisherus 3 года назад

I get into this argument all the time from people who don't know much about the dynamics of a bullet in flight. Most people can't even conceptualize how fast a bullet spins at super sonic speeds. I even had a guy try to tell me it was impossible for a bullet to spin any faster than the rate of twist and length of travel in the barrel it was shot from. Oh well, as my grandfather told me, "Sonny boy, never miss a perfect time to shut up!"

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Lol, yeh you get that, Cheers Craig, thanks

@lyndonhamby7432 3 года назад

Hello my long range hero ☝️👍

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Lol, Cheers

@petercampbell3828 3 года назад

When I read the title I thought tumbing, as in cleaning in a tumbler!

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Cheers

@benjiandjade 3 года назад

Me too. Instead we get undeniable logic

@kentrumm1385 3 года назад

That’s what I thought as well. Just had to see the reason to put your bullets in a tumbler 🤣

@cameronschmidt3508 3 года назад

May buddy an I was shooting 22wmr the 30g vmax load. They shot nicely at 100yrds 200yrds 250yrds. But wouldn’t reach the target at 300yrds. With sun at out backs we could easily see the sun shining off the back of the bullet. Just before the target they would go zinging off to the right at about 20-30° angle. Could that have been transonic instability? It’s not a bullet designed for long range… The shot was prone and the bullet wasn’t traveling over 6ft above the ground. The weather was calm. At the time I was thinking it was tumbling but now I’m not sure.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

This conversation is about precision target and long range hunting bullets, things can be different with bullets designed for short range hunting, like those. So yes, in fact most 30grain 22 rounds are no good at distance, and yes those 30's would tumble, inherently unstable, good for short range only, cheers

@duggydo 3 года назад

I very, very rarely see a bullet keyhole on target. I have seen many times my pellet guns shoot diabolo shaped pellets into spirals if I push them too fast. I've also seen 45 ACP bullets spiral out of HiPoint pistols. There are videos of this effect on a few other youtube channels so I got myself a nice Casio camera to see if my pellet guns were doing it. Sure enough, I caught it on film. This isn't tumbling because the projectile stays pointed in the direction you shoot. It probably doesn't happen with the bullets you are shooting.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Cheers Duggy

@joembarak 3 года назад

Great video mate, love your work. I was just wondering about how you shoot offhand so accurately and consistently at long range. Do you have any videos where you go through your technique and how you do it? If not, what are the chances of seeing a video on this in the future?

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Thanks Man, and well, no special technique, just lots of practise, lots and lots of practise, lol, Cheers

@joembarak 3 года назад

@@markandsamafterwork thanks for the quick reply. Guess I'll have to do just that. Lots of practice. Have a good day 👍

@yongyea4147 3 года назад

I saw a 308 bullet tumble before 100 yards. Sideways hole in the paper target

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

As said, something very wrong there, lol, Cheers

@yongyea4147 3 года назад

@@markandsamafterwork LOL: NO TRUER WORDS. Thank you both so much! You are a saint and a scholar!

@fredfleming2455 3 года назад

Hi Mark, you're killing me!!! you gotta stop making these videos!!! Surely you know it's ALWAYS the bullet's fault I'm not hitting the target... cheers from Melb.

@markandsamafterwork 3 года назад

Lol, Cheers Fred