Kind of off topic. I'm a drummer and I just did a renovation in my basement studio that made a really big positive difference. Pretty good size basement, but low ceiling. 7 and a half or 8 foot tall, unfinished ceiling. Cinder block walls, but I have a lot of bulky furniture and acoustic foam on the walls to control the sound. What I did, was finish the ceiling by putting rockwool insulation between the joyces and then enclosing the ceiling with moving blankets. Deadening the ceiling made everything sound way better. Especially when I add reverb to the drums, the reverb sounds much cleaner than before. And compressing the overheads or room mics doesn't bring up weird reflections from the ceiling anymore.
That resonant vs short -thingie is kind of around the philosophy I use when tuning. Let's say I have a good sounding set that has been tuned well and I want it to translate like that to live and recording situation. For live I tune it a tad bit lower (something like a half step to step) and shorter. For studio I raise the pitch a bit and make it ring more open. It kind of sounds a bit dodgy acoustically, but with mics it translates the feel much better and you end up with good results
I've always thought that hollow basketball sound was something I didn't want....but I guess it's a different sound when miced and recorded properly. Thanks for making a great and informative channel. I love it
Thanks so much for your comment! Yeah, the unmuffled 'empty' kick drum is a weird sound, but actually it can be rather cool in the right context, particularly if you add the outside mic as well (which I didn't in the short clip in this video). Usually, though, even if I don't actually try to tame the heads with muffling I'll still put that light piece of foam in the bottom of the drum to absorb some of the high frequencies bouncing around. Even that little bit of soft mass can tame the 'basketball' effect to something more broadly useful.
This video came at the perfect timing for me! I’ve done a bunch of gigs without microphones recently, and getting pretty good at tuning the bass drum for the room. But yesterday I had to strike a balance between sounding good in the room and sounding good through microphones. It was nice to see how you tune for tone, avoid a pitch, and how you muffle. Thank you!
With the Evans pillow you basically added an emad. I have a USA Custom Gretsch 24x16 and I use an Emad on the batter and a one ply clear Gretsch Permatone (original 1989) on the rezo. I get the same sustain sound Love your stuff bro!
Very good kick drum tuning video. I tune mine pretty much the same except I don't get quite as much "bloom" as you do. Of course I'm using a 22" kick and that may make a difference in my comparison. Anyway, I also watched the recording/mixing video and your have gained another subscriber on that channel. Well done!!!
I later did a video on tuning a 22" drum, since it is a bit simpler (at least the way I do it). Check that out if you have a 22". I hope you find it helpful too!
Thank you! Did you check out the companion video on my rebooted recording channel (RecordingDotPizza) where I show how to emphasize that character in the mix? I absolutely love the bit of what I call 'bloom' that happens with the fairly unmuffled single ply front head. It does add a real sense of mass and authority without getting in the way of definition. The best of both worlds!
@@drumdotpizza yeah, it sounds big without losing definition. Your setup here manages to get a really low note without getting flabby. Quite frequently when I hear a really low tuned drum (not only bass drum, but also floor toms and sometimes large rack toms), they get this weird thing going where as the note resonates it kind of wavers in pitch and amplitude, instead of decaying smoothly. Yours here is an authoritative thump, followed by a clean and crisp tone that decays smoothly. It's so pure it almost sounds like a synthesized sine sub. I did check the other video (almost more important than this one, to me - I'm actually a bass player that does quite a bit of mixing) and will certainly be applying a lot of what you've shown there.
I had that same Ludwig bass drum it was a bad mofo! One of the best sounding drums I’ve had or heard. I liked a medium tuning, higher than what you have but not much, with no muffling just whatever muffling the heads would provide. AKG D112 right by the hole and done. 🎉 One thing I didn’t understand was when people would take bass drums and then tune super low. It’s a bass drum. It’s already very low. 😂 I would love to hear that drum tuned up like half a turn on both sides. I bet you it will sound even better. Also thought the detuning a lug or two was totally ridiculous and unnecessary. Just tune both the heads medium with the front head higher. I didn’t understand the overthinking. 😅
Your title got my attention. And this is a good video. When I record , I actually tune my drums mic'd up. When it sounds good in my headphones , it sounds good in my recordings.
I usually tune with gun muffs on (snares and toms, though not so much bass drums). The muffs mute the highs and I find they give a better representation of how the sound will translate in a track.
I'd been using PS3 on all my kicks for many years until I broke one a didn't have a replacement of the same head. What I had around was an Ebony Ambassador from a collection of extra heads I got when I bought a kit from somebody. I threw that on the drum and was very pleasantly surprised. After dialing it in with tuning and some muffling to get it under control, that particular bass drum batter sounds better than the PS3 in how alive, punchy and clear it comes across. I even put a dreaded kevlar patch on to keep from breaking it and that actually helped focus the sound just enough. Funny thing is, when I've used regular clear Ambassadors on kicks, they never sound right. Too sharp and a bit plasticky. I think maybe I stumbled on a good recipe with the Ebony Amb and muffling, but it really works.
This is gold, because I‘m struggleing with my 24x14“ Bass Drum to get more natural low end. I don‘t want to do it via EQ. Maybe a double ply head with no built in dampening could do the trick. At the moment I‘m switching between a coated or clear Powerstroke 3.
I really love double ply heads and no pre-treatment (felt, rubber, plastic, mylar rings, etc.). Frankly when played medium dynamics and above the majority of the sound is attack, so taming the more unruly heads/lack of muffling is still fairly simple to do with some dynamics processing. As for EQ, I'm generally a subtractive EQ guy, but with kicks (and sometimes snares) I'll add a bit for weight and clarity/brightness. I try not to go beyond a few dB here and there, though. Did you watch the companion video on my other channel? I go into the processing that I did for this video, so check that out if you didn't -- might be useful for you (particularly the compression on the outside mic that really accentuates the sense of weight and size of the drum). Even if you don't add anything via EQ (you want a 'neutral' sound) you'll still likely benefit from removing some mid/low-mid content to clean up the boxiness that often results from miking kicks -- only as much a needed, of course, but don't be afraid to reach for it.
@@drumdotpizza Thanks for taking the time, Joel. I think, I‘m going in the same direction. First getting the drum as good sounding as it gets and than process from there. In the beginning I thought, the sound is made in the mixing process, which you can do, but it‘s getting very artificial soundwise. Of course I saw both videos, subscribed to both channels. :-)
Yeah, I started that other channel back in 2012... no idea what for or what to do with it. I put a few vids on it every few years until about a year ago. When I decided I wanted to focus on drums I just started a new channel (DDP), and then decided to convert the previous one for recording related topics, since that is also a passion of mine. I thought I'd do drum recording related topics here, but decided it might make more sense to dedicate a separate channel, since not all recording topics will be drum related. Don't want to post content not relevant to people on this channel. Thanks for chiming in!!!
These are really nice tones! I love tuning big bass drums to find the sweet spot where the heads are making the shell work really hard and it almost feels amplified right infant of you. Main take away from this video is avoiding having a pitch. I'm often too concerned about having everything resonate at the same pitch
Great video! Love a 24” Bass drum. It is where it is at for me. So much in fact I’ve recently bought 3 x 24 Keller VSS Maple shells. Going to try different depths. Can’t wait! 👍
I learned alot about tuning and mic interaction because of the pa rig in my basement. The mid range of the tuning gives way more volume and projection than the other tunings.
Been struggling with getting my 22x18 inch bass drum to sound good in my room even under the mics and this has given me some things to try! The drum honestly sounds great if I want to play like jazz fusion and is a great kick drum, but not a great sound for rock or pop. I am really thinking about selling it though and getting much shallower bass drums in both 20 and 24 diameter so I have two drums to go to when I need either that huge or that smaller sound and both those drums can probably get across the spectrum of kick drum sounds.
I gig with a local cover band using a DW Collector's kit (belongs to our sound guy!) that has a 22x18 kick (maple) and I tune it very similarly to what I did in this video. It has good weight, but is more attack than bottom end (part of that is the Shure Beta 91 boundary mic inside the kick, I'm sure -- Beta 52 outside), but it does sound very nice on the live recordings! I do own a 1968 Ludwig 20x14 kick with natural interior that is incredibly versatile. Can be tuned for small, punchy vibe, or can open up and sound remarkably huge (MUCH bigger than 20") as well. It is amazing what tuning (and processing) can do to the perceived size of a kick drum! But yeah, I'm a 14" deep kinda guy! ;)
@@drumdotpizza yeah believe it or not it’s a 22x18 pdp kick drum birch, getting a good sound but just not super satisfying. I’ll tune it again and keep trying before I go crazy and start buying more kick drums. My room is not that big lol
@@drumdotpizza actually I just received one of the INDe Wafarer kits along with the bronze snare… delivered all the way to Australia. Your videos on shell dynamics and tone along with your review of the bronze snare helped me make the decision. I couldn’t be happier… not only does the kits sound good but I’ve cut 13kg off the drum weight and 8kg from the hardware case. Just brilliant. So thank you.
I want to cut my bass drum to 14" but i'm just worried if something goes wrong, a 22x20 is way too long. Even thought of using the left over shell for a gong drum
Well... I don't want to tell anyone what to do with their property, but I would suggest that if you decided to do so make sure you have someone knowledgable handle the heavy lifting (cutting, truing, routing edges), and you do the finish up. Just measure twice (or thrice!) before cutting/drilling/etc if you do it. A little care can go a long way and the results will be wonderful, I'm sure. FWIW, I'm have planned a comparison video in the next few weeks cutting down a Pacific CX series (sugar maple, made in Mexico) 22x18 bass drum to 22x14. I will record it stock first, log all the settings, then do the mod and re-record with same heads/tuning/signal path/processing for the sake of a reasonably scientific comparison. I'm really fascinated to experience the results as I believe I know what to expect (based on decades of working with different dimensions of kick drums), but I have never done such a direct comparison before, so it could be eye opening for me. Either way it'll be useful to me and I hope to others! Maybe you should wait for that video before proceeding?? Thanks for reaching out!!
In this video, are you burying the beater or letting it bounce off? As an engineer, what is your opinion on how those two different sounds record or sound live?
I do NOT bury the beater. I play heel up with the ball of my foot about halfway down the footboard with sufficiently high spring tension, so when I relax between beats the beater naturally comes off the head. There are some great players who bury the beater, but it just never worked for me, and I prefer a more open sound anyway, so don't want to stifle the batter with the pressure (and I've recorded TONS of drummers over the years who try to bury the beater, but either don't play appropriately for that technique, or tension the batter to high resulting in the messy 'flam' effect of the beater bouncing off then back onto the head with each strike. That is damned annoying to deal with in post (I have more than a few times had to resort to sample replacement with such drummers). Vinnie and Dave don't have a problem, but a lot of drummers who try to bury the beater do. So no, I don't bury the beater. And I prefer a the more open, resonant sound of not burying it. Not worth dying for, but my preference if I can have it.
No actually (see my reply to the original question above). Interestingly, the lack of burying adds a definite clarity to the attack as there is no possibility of the 'flam' effect of the beater bouncing off the head and back on again as it does with some players (Neil Peart being one... listen to some of the isolated drum tracks on YT to see what I mean). It's not a deal breaker, obviously (Neil was the MAN!), but I prefer the articulation of a single strike to the head followed by pure resonance (if not muffled). Yields a very articulate definition to the sound without stifling the resonance/sustain of more open tunings.
@@drumdotpizza I stand educated. I could have sworn by the 'type' of power and control in your thump... even the less processed audio... And truly hope I didn't offend ;) Thought I knew mine ears better.
I've been playing drums for many years and I myself don't bury the beater all the time but sometimes you can't help not to bury the beater - it happens out of necessity. I guess I learned that way but I honestly don't remember anyone telling me or teaching me to play that way. Yes, you can hear the difference when you are listening to the drum microphones in solo but I'd venture to guess that you wouldn't be able to hear the difference in the context of a full band mix. Not burying the beater does sound better to me with better definition and articulation but as Joel said in his comment you will have some pro drummers who bury the beater and some who don't. Thee are several drums only versions of pro drummers on YT that are good examples of this. One final thought, I remember watching an interview with Todd Sucherman of Styx on Drumeo where he was asked about burying the beater or not and he said he has never had an engineer ask him to play one way or another - and later went on to say don't worry about it!!!
Modern kicks are boring af. lol I bought a Sonor Birch Infinite kit and I still mostly use my old Phonic 22X14. Thing weighs about 50lbs. It’s a beast.
I do, primarily because I want to avoid a pitch which is harder to do with higher tension (though staggering the actual tension at various key rods can blur the sense of pitch). Also, with greater tension the 'rattle' of the front head (which sounds so good to me ears when close miked) can be excessively lengthy requiring a bit more fiddling to dial in. When I record drums with higher tuned front head I may use a tad more muffling (either a felt strip inside or a folded T-shirt or the like along the bottom edge either inside or out) to keep the natural sustain under control, so the processing I do to emphasize its resonance doesn't become a sonic mess. Did you watch the companion video on my other channel that I'm reviving? That demonstrates what I mean. Thanks for being here!
Yup! It rarely sounds worse by adding a kick room sample ala led zeppelin to almost any recorded drum production in the mix, so don't overmute that outside skin.
