TVS is a proper motorcycle company with its R&D dept and a Racing dept. Also they are more tuned to building a quality product. With this acquisition, they might keep high capacity production in uk, while sub 650cc would be produced back home. Whatever it is, you can bet they will make this happen. They are a serious group with a patience approach to their businesses.
Hope they turn it around. Fingers crossed 🤞🏼 And I'll be expecting RE TWINS competitor by TVS in the next 2-3 years when they work in close collaboration with Norton and bring an affordable product to the table, needless to say also excited about the future of Norton bikes too. I've fancied them alot but they are Hella expensive to even think about 💀. Just like Bajaj did with KTM and Eicher with RE & RE with Harris performance there's alot of room for innovation :)
Tvs is already in motorcycle racing and they do also participate in dakar rallies. I think they might just pull a ktm/Husqvarna kind of racing probably.
Norton in name only. In this particular case the brand and badging (along with the trading rights) of 'Norton' are what you will be buying, along with the goodwill that the name brings. The situation is similar to 'Indian' when the naming rights were purchased by Victory. In contrast consider the case of the Volkswagon Beetle which was purchased along with the designs and moulds, much more than just a name! Similar to VW is Fender guitars when they allowed copies to be made in paces like Japan and Mexico. Norton as fans are familiar with, is dead, and that is important to understand. So when you pay up cash for your new Norton you are buying into the brand and nothing more. The situation with Triumph is quite different, Frame and other parts are built in England, while engines I believe are built in Thailand where final assembly takes place. It is important (and the onus is on the purchaser) to research exactly what you are buying into. Is it anything more than nostalgia for a once famous motorcycle?
companies across world in survival mode since 2008 slow down, most of companies shifted manufacturing to Thailand, India, China, Taiwan, Brazil for lesser production cost, it is logical strategy. Norton is too late and no business plans to rise up, thats why they have sell them up. if you see ktm, kawasaki, honda, bmw. they mass produce in those countries and doing well in business. it is all adopability.
Great to hear. I think TVS will not plan manufacture this Iconic Gem in India. Further they can increase the production by automation instead of hand build to make it more affordable & competes to their rivals. I have RE interceptor 650 & Old Bullet, but Norton Commando is just awesome
i'm not bothered as to whether you owned a norton or not but i am glad you have taken an interest in the current fiasco and report it so clearly, well done.
I owned a Norton 850 Commando way back in the day, it was for the time a lot of fun. Then I rode, and subsequently acquired, the Suzuki GS1100E, needless to say basically doubling the horsepower, (at least that's how it felt), made the Norton go away in a hurry. Granted, neither the Norton or the Suzuki hold a candle to my Road Glide or EBR in terms of comfort or speed, but 40 years ago they were the cat's meow and, I wish I'd kept the Norton. The Suzuki not so much
Like the suitably grim backdrop of a once proud property from a bygone era with the battered "For Sale" sign lying forlornly on the ground , evoking Norton's predicament. Presumably you chose this venue specially - nice touch. I'm in the bottom of the creditor pile category with a 500 quid deposit paid back in 2017 for a V4RR - happily almost at the end of the 250 odd production run order list which meant I was a long way off being asked for balance of full payment in preparation for manufacture and delivery. Even if TVS do decide to continue the V4RR (and SS) production , not sure I want it now. Will depend on their level of commitment to this bike and indeed the Commando 961 which is the only machine Garner's company ever managed to produce in any numbers. I have one of those also - an early Mk 1 delivered late 2012 which has , perhaps surprisingly , been pretty troublefree and I bike I still greatly enjoy riding. The 961 in my garage sits alongside two old 850 Commandos from the '70s back in what the old school Norton enthusiasts refer to as the days of proper Nortons. Really wanted Garner's resurrected new Norton company to succeed and no point in dwelling on the awful saga surrounding its demise. Of course I hope TVS do decide to maintain a manufacturing base in UK , be it Donington or wherever , but rather go with your hinted crystal ball gazing that the main manufacturing base for new models at least will be India. One only has to look at Triumph to see which way the wind is blowing on economics of British bike manufacture. Watching with interest how the TVS story will unfold.
If the Indian Automotive press is to be believed, the production is said to remain in UK and the 400 odd prospective owners who had booked the bike by paying 💯 money would get their bikes.
The way I understand it Alf, is that it was a asset sale in other words they have bought the assets of the said companies and not the shares within these companies therefore it removes TVS from any current or future liabilities for the depts those companies have..agree TVS might want to keep good customer relations and might supply bikes to customers who have paid deposits...i'm sure it will all come out in the wash as they say....
I must admit one thing about TVS is , when it comes to premium bike products Bajaj is behind TVS in precision making. You can compare Apache & Pulsar. The difference is visible in the build quality of TVS bikes. TVS has capacity to build larger cc motorcycles but in Marketing & Brand world it is a great step to capitalise on the already existing brand by acquisition.
The future would be the same as it is now.... A company that sit on its laurels in the 60's and 70's thinking that they had all the patents, technology and market share for the foreseeable future got outmatched, out-competed by the Japanese with far better performance and reliable bikes that left them in the dust unable to compete with them, not now, not ever!.... However there is a consolation price in the home country with melancholic followers that yearn for yesteryear's top British bikes... Even today, they sell more bikes than they use to do in the 60's and 70's, they have no reason to complain....
Nice reporting. I second your opinion that building a good product line should take priority over racing. Racing is good PR for an established product line. Not the reverse. If TVS can build an attractive, capable mid-size machine with real quality and style, I think they could pull it all off. I'm a former 1974 Commando 850 owner from the US. I would seriously consider any such machine. If TVS is as big as you say, they should have the resources to make it happen. I have always been a fan of the Britbikes of the 50s to the 70s. But that was then and this is now. All good luck to TVS.
One thing you forget that is TVS making bike for BMW. bcz TVS & BMW merge together for 4 years.. Not only TVS making Bike for smaller segment, TVS upgrade their technology and making Heavy machine.
Aims as I see it:- to produce a small range of motorcycles for the public to purchase, keep all Norton factory/s and tooling in England and assist where possible privateers in racing to keep the name in prominence.
I think the Norton brand is tarnished here but not so in India/Asia, they could pop out a bike with the Norton name on it and it will sell loads competing with RE. I do hope they bring out a model to compete with RE her though.
If TVS wants to make sense from this deal, then they need atleast 1 product from Norton to counter the RE 650 twins in the home market as well as abroad. Just this much is enough since anything larger or more premium than this will only be sitting on dealer shelves in India. Anything larger than 650cc, should only be addressed for the needs of the international market, for now.
Usually, the main beneficiaries of this type of deal go to the Administrators who charge huge fees and are first to take money. £1,000 per hour for senior partners is not unknown. Creditors such as ordinary people will probably get jack s-it.
TVS has one of the best R&D in the business in India and they do have a racing pedigree. Even their lower capacity bikes are tuned more for the enthusiasts. My take would be that they would be very interested in racing the Nortons, well not immediately may be, but at a later date. At least that would be my hope. Enjoyed your video btw.
TVS try to again experience , tradition and brand value . Because Indian people has great respect of tradition and luckily Norton , BSA , Triumph and Royal Enfield part of it. Few years ago JAWA Czech bike sold like hot cakes by Mahindra groups , beneli bike by Chinese company well received in India. TVS collaborated with BMW 310 product and service . So don't underestimate TVS capacity . They Owned several companies like Sundaram Textiles Limited Transenergy Limited [[Delphi-No TVS Emerald Harita Techserv Limited, Chennai India Motor Parts & Accessories Limited TVS Autoparts Private Limited India Nippon Electricals Limited IRIZAR TVS Private Limited TVS Electronics Limited Lakshmi Auto Components Limited TVS Credit Services Limited Lucas Indian Service Limited TVS Interconnect Systems Limited TV Sundram Iyengar & Sons Pvt. Limited(TND) Lucas-TVS Limited TVS Insurance Broking Limited TVS Lanka Private Limited Southern Roadways Limited TVS Motor Company Limited Sundaram Brake Linings Limited Sundaram-Clayton Limited TVS Training and Services Limited TVS Sewing Needles Limited Sundaram Dynacast Limited TVS Srichakra Limited T V Sundram Iyengar & Sons Lim Sundaram Industries Limited TVS Sundram Fasteners Limited TVS Upasana Limited Anusha Investments Limited, Chennai Holding company : Sundaram-Clayton Limited, Chennai Ultimate Holding Company : T V Sundaram Iyengar & Sons Limited, Madurai Fellow subsidiaries : TVS Motor Company Limited, Chennai Sundaram Auto Components Limited, Chennai TVS Motor (Singapore) Pte. Limited, Singapore Wheels India limited,chennai TVS Motor Company (Europe) B V, Amsterdam PT.TVS Motor Company Indonesia, Indonesia TVS Energy Limited, Chennai TVS Investments Limited, Chennai TVS Electronics Limited, Chennai Tumkur Property Holdings Limited, Chennai Prime Property Holdings Limited, Chennai TVS-E Access (India) Limited, Chennai TVS-E Servicetec Limited, Chennai TVS Capital Funds Limited, Chennai Sravanaa Properties Limited, Chennai Southern Roadways Limited, Madurai Sundaram Industries Limited, Coimbatore The Associated Auto Parts Limited, Mumbai TVS Interconnect Systems Limited, Coimbatore TVS Logistics Services Limited, Chennai Lucas-TVS Limited, Chennai Sundaram Textiles Limited,Coimbatore NSM Holdings Limited, Coimbatore TVSNet Technologies Limited, Coimbatore TOR Projects & Services Limited, Coimbatore NK Telecom Products Limited, Coimbatore NK Telesystems Limited, Coimbatore TVS Automotive Europe Limited, UK TVS CJ Components Limited, UK TVS Logistics Iberia S.L., Spain TVS Logistics Siam Limited, Thailand TVS Autoserv GmbH, Germany TVS Logistics Investment UK Limited, UK Scuderia Car Parts Limited, UK Universal Components Limited, UK YeleStre Holdings Limited, UK Multipart (Holdings) Limited, UK Multipart Solutions Limited, UK IH Crick Property Co Limited, UK Msys Software Solutions Limited, UK Globe Dynamics Limited, UK Globe Transport Products Limited, UK TVS Dynamic Global Freight Services Limited, Chennai TVS Commutation Solutions Limited, Chennai Lucas Indian Service Limited, Chennai TVS Automotive Systems Limited, Chennai TVS Next,Chennai Iranian Automotive Systems, Iran Sundram Non-Conventional Energy Systems Limited, Chennai Madras Auto Service Sundaram Motors Sundarams Limited Sundaram Charities Rico Group, UK ABI Showatech India Limited Simtech india pvt ltd Harita NTI Ltd Harita seatings Harita Fehrer Wheels India Ltd, Chennai Sundaram Hydraulics, Chennai Brakes India Pvt Ltd Axles India Ltd TEL,Chennai So Hope for good and Expect New Models from TVS Norton group.
Lots of talk of the Norton factory was actually a factory in the sense they manufactured items for motorcycles or was it just a workshop assembling the bikes?
Not sure how any of the current Motorcycles from Norton can cost compete with RE if they continue to get manufactured in the UK.. There may be a possibility of Norton’s Premium Motorcycles to continue to get manufactured in the UK while the entry level ones ( lower spec Atlas ) to go to India so that they get the cost advantage both in India ( largest two wheeler manufacturer and consumer in the world) as well as globally ( just similar to Enfield 650 Twins ).. Time will tell ! Note that Tatas bought JLR a few years ago and there’s not much of localization in India.
Arvind Swain : Didn’t Indian customers hope that they’d be driving affordable Land Rovers after Tata’s JLR acquisition in 2013 ? Not sure if a mere adoption of Rover’s platform ( with a fiat sourced engine and Hyundai sourced Automatic Gear Box ) after 8 years quite met their expectations ! Dismal sales of Harrier is an indication that they’re not quite excited !
ШИРИШ : The only big bike I know that’s localized in India is ZX10R.. Let me know if there’re others that you know of..( Ninja 400, BMW 310 etc.. which are also localized not Big bikes ).. Anyway TVS MD himself has mentioned that there’re no immediate plans to manufacture Norton locally.. May be in a distant future !
Went to buy an Atlas Nomad but dealer told me the factory wasn’t up and running yet! If they keep it manufactured in the U.K. then I’ll have one. If made overseas then forget it, I’ve done that with Triumph.
If Norton want to go racing then they should do what they did in the 50s after they stopped the works Norton team and produce either racing bikes and or engines and frames for privateers this will save them the expense of running a race but keep Nortons racing and all the exposure that racing provides. Norton used to provide riders the chance to both race and be seen by other works teams
TVS slowly expanding their market to Southeast Asia, Africa & Latin America, Currently, they are exporting 100 to 300 CC bikes and scooters, so they want to fill big bikes... This is a good choice ..
About the motorcycles made by Norton, I don't think there is any value in the motorcycles per se but there is a little value in the drive train, gears, transmissions, and general motor configuration...... They will pick the best of the components and configurations and mold a new modern case and cylinders around them, that would make a design for a motorcycle a lot faster without having to start from scratch.....
Good info mate Keep it coming. My first bike was a Dominator, bought from a mate in the early/mid 60s rode it unregistered and unlicensed til I was old enough then legalised it at 18
TVs is a very good company their products are very good in India race track developed. Sturdy & reliable. I feel they will do everything to develop Norton as a premium brand.
They'll have a look at the reality of what they can produce then just use the name. Possibly the RE business model with design and technical here in the UK and build in India or the far east where its cheap. More to the point is that shyster Garner going to be held to account any time soon.
For the foreseeable future large capacity bikes will continue to be produced in UK. RE was producing bikes in India way as "Enfield India" way before they bought the rights. So they continued. But Norton will be different. Large capacity UK, sub 650cc India is my expectation.
Royal enfield.. no brand can touch its market share in India, Harley/triumph/jawa/now Norton .. Don't worry TVS got lot of finance... TVS just need a old brand logo..
@@ianwatson2285 I agree, TVS is a production company they are are not into designing and R&D. Norton was famous for its technology and class apart performance. It will be a big task for TVS to understand and maintain Norton's legacy.
First visit to your channel. Nice concise delivery of information. Norton Atlas, any variant very cool. Agree, to compete with RE production will have to relocate to low labour cost country I'm afraid. However, the world will be very much a different place when we get back to some form of normality. Wish I had a crystal ball. Cheers
Hello Alf; I too have never owned a Norton, but have always wanted to and I am very interested in the Ranger also. So if you could keep your nose to the ground on this and keep this Yank informed of the latest news on the Norton debacle, it will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Hi Alf, are you sure about the sale of the 650 engine to the Chinese?. The 961 was widely reported but this is the first mention of the 650 I have heard.
It looks India india is is finally finding a their place in the world, after all hey invented steel as we know it.... They are acquiring names associated with motorcycles to be competitive in the world market ( instead of Mascharahastra motorcycles ... nothing wrong but people do not associate that name with motorcycles ).... India is learning fast and they will make a competitive product...... Can't wait for their first Norton-Chennai .... Or Norton-Tamil, it would be interesting after a couple of rounds at the Dakkar race or the Baja 1000 to introduce the brand to the world....
Norton as you know it is over, the 1960s-1970s commandos are gone, the Norton's Garner was going to sell were no good, the big engine was never a finished product and the smaller engined bikes looked terrible, if they had HONGSONGTIT on the tank you would not look twice at them. Start again with TVS and new engines for the mass market is Norton's best bet, forget winning the TT and sell mid range bikes that people want and can afford that have a back up service and parts are available at a proper dealership network,
I’m not sure that considered in the deal but that’s a great point. I don’t think they had any obligation to take on the pension fund so it’s not part of it, but worth looking into. Cheers
No liability, no refund. Business. It will go to India. Say goodbye to another British motorcycle. 961 rights sold to china, that was a bit of a shock.
Should never have gone into racing develop and race a V4 on top of trying solve all the on going problems with the 961.( one of which I have) was never going fly. Should have stuck to manufacturing the best bike they could produce selling it at a price large numbers could afford instead of robbing pensions to fund it. Norton have always developed on the race track but 60 70 years ago things were a lot different, up against the likes of Honda, Yam and Suk no chance.Incidentally V4 never raced with the Norton power plant. Although two were assembled at the factory I saw them.
Fans and customers of Norton don't need to worry.... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qzjYMId2wjA.html For more info go through this video
@@ianwatson2285 well they wanted to increase their portfolio they have people in UK in Norton team for r&d Nd might get more people to it. And for production I think they are not gonna move outside of Uk for now maybe after 2 to 3 year but for those model which they are gonna do mass production.
Excellent! now all vintage Commandos will be worth more. Who wants anything made in the second world - only a dummy.Sorry if my comment has offended anyone.
The old Nortons such as the Commandos were rubbish build quality and the new Nortons had many issues with build quality too (largely due to Stuart Garner’s mixture of incompetence and greed) so I suspect that TVS can build high quality in India if they choose too and why wouldn’t they ? The new Triumph Bonnies are all made in Thailand now and they are much better build quality than any British bikes from the past so not sure who’s the dummy ?
It will still be British like JLR. R&D and manufacturing will stay in UK. The previous owner was British but they couldn't keep hold on it and did a lot of damage already to the brand.
