Twitter VS Ludwig & WillyMacShow 

Willy i am a huge fan

Well you should babysit me

Willy,your good. Mwah 😊❤

Like how you complain about other content creators having egos when you yourself like making things about you 😂

thank you! ludwig’s a cool guy but he’s def on the wrong side of this discussion 😑

Summed it up well imo

You can tell their family life and they assume it's the norm

100% this

They sound the kind of parent that would do such thing lmao

Yeah and then they cry about parasocial relationships🤣🤣🤣

i creamed in my bowblax plushy doll and who do you think gave me the idea for that?

​@@henkdachief you WHAT

@@henkdachief bowblax of course

Hes just an influential guy

I watched bowblax and am now wanted for breaking the Geneva convention in over 30 countries. I think we can safely blame it all on bowblax in court.

Right? How is eye dubs more influential than American History X for instance?

Agreed. If entertaining an audience in a certain way is bad because a few stupid people might mimic what you do and say, then 90% of youtubers and twitch streamers, most movies, games and shows should be banned because people might be influenced by all of those things in a bad way too. It's a rtarded argument

​@@Rex13013 tv shows have so much violence nowadays compared to the past. Do we blame TV shows for all the violence behind teenagers attacking their teachers? We either hold everyone accountable or only the people who push their audience to go act. Parents are responsible for who their children watch, Idubz content was mature and for young adults. Having 11 year olds watching him was the parents fault. Raise your children right and don't rely on strangers to tell them right from wrong.

Exactly there is a big difference between those 2

Dream....

The brain rot of Twitter continues Last week: Taking screenshots of Twitter posts is Doxing This week: You are responsible for millions of randos on the Internet

Def Noodles redemption arc?

He's been making more than a few decent takes for a while

​@@communistpotato3204 Yeah, I've gotta say Dennis has been stepping up his game this year.

@@LeeferWeefer just wait, august is gonna be really fun for def noodles haters

That’s literally Ludwig.

"You can literally tell your audience not to do something and they will still do it. Not your problem" this is very true. However the other part does matter just as much. As since in some of the tweets if you consistently say slurs for example your normalizing it and their will be people who start doing the same. If you never punish or bad someone who says slurs in your chat your basically saying it's okay to do so. There needs to be at least some level of responsibility for things like these (edit: obviously there are degrees of this as well. If you say something as a very obvious joke that is dark/racist and it's very obviously a joke then it's not your responsibility if people take it seriously.)

​@@swordyshield I listen to music and watched movies that use slurs all the time. I don't say them because it is my own responsibility not theirs. It seems as if you people just want to get away with bullsh*t and blame everybody else not taking any accountabilty and responsibility.

I've seen plenty of communities that discourage certain behavior but don't believe in censorship. People will do it of their own free will, regardless of the stance the creator takes.

FR. Nickisnotgreen as an example, he straight up told his audience to go and flag Sneako.

@@Lily.M. If you have an audience that is filled with incels and racists and you aren’t actively trying to call them out or do anything about it you definitely hold some sort of responsibility. Look at the audience of so many red pill creators they have become a breeding ground for incels, rape apologists and transphobes.

Ah, yes, the strawman arguement.

Based.

I need ludwig to tell me how to make my bed and tell me when I should also eat sleep and shit. If he didn't do all that my life would be in shambles.

Ludwig is just trying to win brownie points from PC viewers, and then once he realized he said something stupid he backtracked on what he said about 75%

@@altrivotzck6565 thats exactly what logwig said you fucking nerd

The only time I’d say they’re responsible is when they’re actively encouraging behavior and weaponize their audience. Otherwise, some people just aren’t going to listen to the “don’t be a dick to x person” disclaimer.

But the thing is in this circumstance idubbbz was directly leaking to more people using slurs despite not actively telling them to. However I still fall closer to ninjas take in how this should be addressed

@@heronb.520 oh yea true which is why the only thing u a creator can really be responsible for the most is making their message clear and what it says

If you have an audience that is full off incels and racists and you aren’t doing anything about you probably have some degree of responsibility.

​@thecod2345 yep. Most sane people don't harass other people without a motive without directly being told to do so. (Or they have a personal grudge)

still he is pretty cringe

@@henkdachief I haven’t seen much cringe from him tbh, then again I don’t use Twitter much 😭

@@LoppyYT its just my opinion

@@henkdachief why he cringe ? I’m curious now !

For some, yeah. But other creators don't do it to entertain people. They do it to talk about their opinions. To give their 2 cents and all. And that's why their audiences go to them: because they trust them to have good opinions backed up by verifiable evidence and sources and claims. Because they value what that creator says and does when it comes to certian topics like politics, for instance. In those cases, when a creator is making a video or doing a stream not for the purpose of entertainment or jokes, they are a lot more responsible for the things their audience takes from said video(s) and/or stream(s) and ingests and believes and repeats. Especially if that thing is a particularly harmful one. The whole things is just super naunced. Basically, if you want to create to entertain, do that. That's your thing. Anyone with properly fuctioning brain should be able to understand it's not meant to be serious and it's not on you to account for those that can't, that's the job of their actual parents. However if you're creating for a more serious purpose, or you're moving into an area that's serious, even if you've only done entertainment in the past, then you have to consider yourself partially responsible for your audience when it comes to the topics and things your discussing while in that serious area.

Honestly it's why I've never liked Ludwig. He embodies the moral highground person who is just as bad as the people he criticizes but pretends not to be that Twitch streamers are known for.

@@GodsDissapointment I like to call them the "Moral handstand peoples" because they be clowning.

Because they are sexist

not only does this comment prove Lud was partially correct, he still does have footing in the discussion because he clearly denounced his audience to go harass whoever. Truly at that point, whatever his audience does is on them. It shouldn't be controversial to state words have power and try to be as responsible with your words as possible.

@@sizedoesntmeaneverything4157 I don’t disagree with your last statement, but that’s also why Ludwig is wrong. For the entirety of his video he brings up both pieces of faulty evidence and he just straight up misrepresents what studies say. Not to mention the videos old title was literally “This RU-vidr Hates Women”. To top it off he added a short “Oh-and-don’t-attack-the-creator-of-the-vid-thanks-BYEEE”. It would be understandable if he countered some of TBYS’s points fairly and respectably, but I don’t think he was ever really going for that. Think of it this way: Imagine someone going around their neighborhood and telling everyone that once resident may-possibly be a huge racist, but said to not get emotional and attack this person. Sure that accused neighbor wouldn’t be met with unbridled scorn and vitriol, but they would be treated differently, like they really were what they were accused of being. The truth is that Ludwig made a bad faith video on TBYS that spread lies and pointed fingers, riling his army of fans to see TBYS as a misogynist. With everything Ludwig said in his video being held back by a shallow “don’t harass” statement, of course people went to attack TBYS, that’s the following Ludwig cultivated. If Ludwig really cared about the topic he would have looked through the topic carefully with his 15 EMPLOYEES. But he doesn’t care because he has made neither a retraction of his video or a response to TBYS’s video defending himself. Ludwig just saw this as easy views and went for it, and there lies the problem. Words without a thought behind them mean nothing. Ludwig dint care and his comment was just an ass-covering maneuver, so his disclaimer meant nothing.

Yeah, that is the one point I have against Ludwig's side of the argument. I still agree with his arguments in this quote-end-quote "debate" but he does seem pretty hypocritical.

@@altrivotzck6565 I think his entire argument just falls apart. You can’t have your cake and eat it. If the argument is that creators are responsible for what their viewers do, then you should be held accountable for everything. If its only for things a creator expressly tells their followers to do, its exploitative behaviour that he’s actively defending. Considering he always weaponises his followers, and its not even isolated to one case, he’s absolutely a hypocrite. He doesn’t have any defense for either argument.

@@DaInternetBear I really don't care about how hypocritical ludwig is in this, but my opinion on the actual thing that they were arguing about is that you can still be responsible for how you act, and take into account how the way you act affects the people who watch you, without literally having to be held accountable for every little thing someone who watches you does, and you can "be responsible" for influencing the actions of someone who watches you, without literally telling them to do a certain thing.

@@altrivotzck6565 By that standard no one is responsible for their actions. Movies have death and torture. Games display death and torture. Literature that advocates for violent rebellion are to blame, not the people consuming it. Pointing and blaming anything aside from yourself is stupid. If you are dumb enough to be influenced by media without forming your own opinion, you deserve the consequences. No court will ever take the ‘My favourite streamer said it was okay to kill my neighbour’ defence seriously.

Exactly. Every single time I've seen Ludwig respond or react to a video he doesn't like, he's always passive aggressive or straight up is attacking the person to the point that he's saying to his mental midget fans "go attack this person and his audience". Guy is the entire circus. Typical Twitch streamer L.

I disagree with something he says. He says streamers should be held responsible if they misinform, promote scams, etc. But I think it goes beyond that. If an influencer creates a toxic environment on their community, making fun of certain people every other time, making offensive jokes just for the sake of it, having their chats saying a bunch of horrible shit and pretending like it's not happening... Well, that might be a little problematic, don't you think? There's nuance to toxicity on the internet. You can get someone harassed on the web without saying "hey chat, go harass that person now".

@@gradient5319 That is a different story. In this case, it's a MAJORITY. The creator will be held responsible.

He's really not being nuanced, though. If he were, he'd be capable of recognizing that both sides are actually correct. Instead, the commentary community is stuck on pushing a single collective opinion.

You say as he has the most hyperbolic take I've seen.

​@@lissaw4 The hive mind is real, hold on I'm gonna hate comment under acheeto and get the leafy clones on my ass.

He is accountable for making people racist, imagine being a commentary channel that does its best to not show black peoples response to any of these dramas, he lowkey showing he does not care about thema nd neither should we.

LMAO

​@@folkenberger please be joking please be joking please be joking please be joking

@@folkenbergerhe literally shows jidion and speeds reactions all the time what are you talking about?

@@folkenbergerAs a black person, I really hope this comment is a joke.

I think Ludwig is a complete L bozo.

​@@coltonwilkie241 yeah him and his kind

A. Ludwig never said creators should be held accountable for their audiences actions, in fact he directly stated they shouldn't be punished for it, what he said was that content creators merely have a *responsibility* to cultivate a positive environment. B. Yes, telling his chat to not hate brigade Willy is sufficient, and is the responsible thing to do. As to why? Refer to what Ludwig said in the exact same clip you're referencing about a creator's inaction. He can't stop the people who would still ignore that message, but there would still be some that would be swayed from arguing in that thread, thus it was a good thing to do. C. Jan's tweet has no bearing on what Lud did, nor does it have any bearing on his argument. You're just deliberately interpreting his arguments in a wrong way in an attempt to make him look bad.

its obvious he just wants brownie points from his PC viewers, but once he realized what he said was a logical fallacy he started to backtrack

Didn't ludwig tell his audience to hunt down his car when it was stolen, potentially from an extremely dangerous individual. I guess everyone forgot

@@MikeyBoiYah he literally told his audience not to engage and to just post a picture if they see it. You are reaching hard

Coming from the creator who's proud to say he doesn't like parasocial relationships. Then in the next breath hey go find my stolen car. Not reaching

JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA~

​@@carlosalbertogarciajimenez5879 don't let Boxblax get a hold of this reply his poor vocal cords won't be able to handle it.

LMFAO!!!

You’re so right, This take shouldn’t be controversial at all, how is it an absurd take to say influencers might influence their audience?

@@Pundapog Because it’s not black and white so there’s good arguments on both sides so people on Twitter just scream those arguments at each other to feel better about their intelligence

I am still figuring out how this all happened from Idubzz apologizing. If what he thought he did was wrong and he apologizes for it where is the problem?

⁠@@bipper3941 by apologizing he is saying the thing he did were wrong and the people who agreed with him or also acted that way are mad

@@bipper3941 I think it stems more from the Stanz reaction, which granted did come across as a bit strong, but people couldn’t help wildin out and taking the complete opposite position

You know it’s bad when even Def Noodles disagrees

Goes to show how much "ratioing" has become an appeal to popularity fallacy.

This is written like you are 13 lmaoo

He has a bigger twitter following and his fans clearly can't think for themselves

@@AidGum Just like how arguing that most of the other content creators in this video agreeing means that they're right.

I swear this is such a braindead back and forth

Literally this tho. Tweets it’s weak, and never elaborates.

And it didn't help that they have sheeps to constantly orbit around them and lick their feet to feed into their ego

You probably also believe the world revolves around you if you're so quick to judge a massive group of people like that and take a moral high-ground. Have some decency.

this is very well said.

yeah, I don't really get the arguement of "well, when idubbbz said slurs constantly in his videos, he didn't mean his audience could say them." when indirectly, it sends that messages. And also directly, he literally said "either all of them are ok or none of them are." Like if someone is saying his slur catchphrase in public, no one can say that he had nothing to do with that. He totally did, it was literally his catchphrase. But if some guy punches someone and then says "subscribe to Idubbbz" he of course has nothing to do with that. Because he never directly or indirectly told his audience to go do that.

Who cares about indirect responsibility though Just like grow up and touch grass I dont get it

@@bums009 Indirect responsibility matters because it reflects how the community of the creator can frequently produce radical people who like as seen before do shit that they shouldn't be doing. Even if it's not intentional, it's still a problem.

Low IQ take.

Source on the nashville thing?

@@masonpark4656 well it's very simple, the Nashville shooter was someone that followed people like vaush and hassan very closely, Ludwig said any influencer that is watched very closely by others are responsible for said others and,, Ludwig is associated to hassan (since they both agree, guilt by association is a good thing). If you're talking about actual sourcesthen I can't leave links, though go digging around for their manifesto, typical "the man us rounding Trans people up into camps, and we must stop them" kinda shit.

​@@sunbeames1847nice proof retard

​@@sunbeames1847also you look like a redditor

Remember when Ludwig said he has no responsibility of minors who watched his wife's award show that promoted an adult site ? He's full of contradictions and manipulation

I mean, so many rap artists glorify gang violence, drugs, getting bitches etc and a lot of my peers back in high school were attempting to replicate what they hear in the songs.

I feel bad for Ludwig. He feels like one of the only sane people in this video. I don't watch this Willy guy, but based on what he said in these tweets, he must be irresponsible waaay too often.

@@altrivotzck6565 love the impersonation of luds awful fanbase lol I used to be apart of it so many of them are so insanely toxic sucks to see honestly one of them got called out for defending someone that lied about being abused and provably so and his community rallied with them Very depressing stuff

@@PhoenixAce No, I was being serious and mocking your stupid comment. Also, I wouldn't call myself "his fanbase", because I don't watch him. I also have no clue about that abuse thing you're talking about. I just agree with his stance on the topic.

@@altrivotzck6565 lol didn’t even come in with anything of substance immediately mocking and name calling Very mature mate very mature Definitely can see whose in the right here

@@PhoenixAce Huh? Name calling? I said your comment was stupid. I didn't call you stupid. (btw, I only meant that I thought the "Willy seemed like the only sane person" part was stupid because I personally thought everything he said was insane. I have no clue about how big ludwig's ego usually is. you might be right about that part)

Maybe daddy Ludwig can have you sit on his lap as he teaches you racism is bad?

Finally, another sane person. I feel like I'm going insane when I scroll down to the comments and all I see is strawman arguments, misinterpretations, and "based."

Speak for yourself, If you let an influencer influence you into saying something or doing something that's on you. You should have enough self awareness to form your own opinion and way to conduct yourself you fuckin' apes.

Like the south park episode with the wristbands. (everybody claimed jesus was on steroids for his miracles)

Cant wait

Soon?

Wouldn't doubt that would happen

Is Jesus on the good side of the argument?

It just cemented his downfall lol

Influencers are content creators, but content creators aren't influencers. Just as Education can be Entertainment, but Entertainment isn't Education. Viewers should take responsibilities over their own actions, and stop having a Parasocial relationship with the Content Creator, who doesn't even know they exist. Of course, this doesn't also mean you can spew whatever you desire on the internet.

That was kinda true in the past but that mentality is long gone (or at least nowhere near as prevalent as it was before). No one's going to blame Eminem if some psycho decides to kill his girlfriend. There might be a few who try to but they'd be the minority and they'd get mock for even making the suggestion.

This is self-contradictory, because part of the "you are responsible for the content you're making" is that "you are partially responsible for what the content you're making encourages people to do" which, in turn, implies "you are ever so slightly responsible for what your viewers do after seeing your content". If you try to argue that "being respondible for the content you're making" doesn't at all include "being responsible for what the content you're making encourages people to do", then that is so provably wrong it's laughable.

​@@altrivotzck6565 are you dumb? Let's say you make a video saying I like to eat razors. And I as your fan decided to copy that; it be my fault for doing such a wreck less dumb action. And your fault for making such a low effort garbage video.

It absolutely isn't? Like these aren't comparable dude.

@@jbisthedj What about rappers? Or any musician?

They are though? If you foster an environment full of degenerate losers and enable the circlejerking of their own delusional ideas, they are absolutely responsible for that. Just like you, for example. A sheep who orbit the same echo chamber of WillyMac, Keemstar, Nicholas DeOreo and thus perpetuate the same weirdly contrarian brain rot ideas.

​@@jbisthedj are you claiming that eye dubs wasn't an artist?

@@jbisthedj they are comparable, both are things on your screen, with even them possibly being fiction being part of it because alot of youtubers play characters. it is very much comparable

Look, look at how I make them dance! Isn't it wonderful how they twirl when I beckon?!

To be fair, he’s not a hero, he made one Good take yet he has an equal amount of bad takes either, and imo can’t really call him a hero if all he does is argue on twitter.

@@randomdudeontheinternet9556 You've got problems lmao

@@Ballbroth fair

Not really

​@@cumpsock4472wdym

Willy is the most terminally online person I’ve ever seen

@@ashinygiratina1519 is this a joke?/gen

@@Kylessuperbestfriend he didn’t really understand the argument or point, the point is that if you let insane weirdos be in your community and do nothing about it even though you know that they are there and let them continue to be there it that’s on you for those insane weirdos continuing to be in your community it’s obviously not 100% but it’s a pretty effective filter (doing something about it would mean speaking out against the insane weirdo behavior in your community or taking literal steps) sorry if there’s typos mobile commenting is hard to read

Yep your so tired of it that you watched the video and left a comment

Nice outdated argument buddy

@@brots3 What are you on about fool?

@@Danne1886 he’s paid hundreds of thousands taking Dow deepfake stuff

yes!!

@@TwitterVS yeah I’m excited!

They aren't responsible, are you going to say a rapper is responsible for what people do? Andrew tate is an actor you cannot hold people accountable for the actions of others. And even then the example of Tate was cherry picked

bIgOtEd lol

@@scott5388 Yeah I would say that and people have been saying that. How many teenagers joined gangs cause of rappers glorifying them. Yeah not all of them do that and it's dumb to say all rappers are bad cause of it but it showcases that when you make media, or any form of art you are whether you realize it or not. Creating a culture that will influence the people who see it. It won't affect people but it just means it's your responsibility if your a person of influence to not weaponize your audience. Dawg I knew a classmate who beat his mom cause of Andrew Tate and then bragged about it, you cannot say Andrew Tate shouldn't be responsible. He knew what he was doing when he was influencing these people, he just didn't care cause of greed.

​@@robotmaster4515 You completely made up that story about your class mate and his mom because Tate. Can you link me this video where Tate goes over beating your mother because woman. I see how much RU-vid influences you. You saw a couple videos from your favorite opinion cultivator that makes you feel good and Act like that shit has been happening everywhere in all crevices of the world.

@@robotmaster4515 Yeah. Andrew KNEW what he was doing and didn't care. That's when creators are held responsible. That is malicious intent.