Ukraine-Russia Series: F-16s vs Russian Cruise Missiles: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BP3kf5oOezE.html F-16s vs Odessa Blockade: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VN2oUutiwkw.html A-10 Clear Minefields: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AhcnXiJdS1I.html US-Supplied Cluster Bombs: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-W4aRf9l5vGQ.html F/A-18 Hornet vs Su-35: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nRrmU1upBqk.html F-16A MLU vs Su-35: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FHxPMz5MhdI.html Patriot vs KH-47M" Kinzhal: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-C-q1tWlLh0I.html Eurofighter vs Su-57: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OnKuV6259ck.html Rapid Dragon 2 vs Black Sea Fleet: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sHTGKG1cYec.html MALD, Storm Shadow & AARGM-ER: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d6p0YY_VQZY.html Storm Shadow vs Russian SAMs: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5wJPbBAj0WM.html Iskander vs Various SAMS: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KxxahORODBA.html HIMARS vs Russian SHORADs: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DI6yIt0goPA.html Storm Shadow vs Kerch Bridge: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UsHa9Fe29gI.html Rapid Dragon vs Black Sea Fleet: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rvUTl6xjxqY.html Ukraine With JDAM-ER: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-deWnN1319Xw.html UK Typhoons vs Su-57: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OnKuV6259ck.html F-22 Raptors vs Russia President: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Fcmt2kdebvI.html Air Force One vs Russia: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IDVULTyzcEw.html AGM-179 JAGM vs 2S38 & T-90: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6-f8GJzxg5E.html SEAD & ATACMS vs Kerch Bridge: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HJ0MgwXydyY.html IMP US Strike vs Black Sea Fleet: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xSUAiTVwI6o.html HIMARS ATACMS vs Kerch Bridge: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uU_SPj0HQgo.html Sa-11 Buk Firing Sea Sparrow: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uBoryuBHfBQ.html US Strike vs Black Sea Fleet: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KMwYjJghQiA.html Rus SEAD vs Modernized Patriot: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FdoyfKgaONE.html Rus Bombers vs Modernized Patriot: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4Y961tLNE18.html JDAM vs S-400 Network: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wP4sfDG-01E.html Kinzhal vs Pac-3 & IRIS-T: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-i0GzbajI0mU.html F16 or Gripen for Ukraine?: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Y-k71nfap4Q.html Mig-31 vs NATO Black Sea AWACS: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vFOzjW25ItI.html R-37M Long Range Shootdown: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--3LKGL4w9Q4.html Drone Swarm vs NATO Defense: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wDBOSd9qCDs.html Patrio PAC-3/IRIS-T vs Missiles: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-N5Z81iW8YNY.html MANPAD/IRIS-T vs Russian Missiles: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-N9R9GUVcTyk.html AGM-158C LRASM vs Sevastopol: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GDZoDRhIIRw.html A-10s Operating in S-400 Nets: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5BwFlesg42o.html Modernized Su-27 vs Su-35: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7llLDzeT2Bs.html Modernized F15/F16 vs Su-35: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--TozTHbAXVs.html Can Su-57 Defend Russia From F-22/35: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-E-oC3NgxC94.html IMPROVED Stealth vs Russian Bombers: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IgwLW4YKvVU.html Ukraine Using Hellfire Missile?: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-s_1YHDTmPPw.html US Harpoons vs Russian Navy: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Oiee83CWRcE.html Ukraine Using APKWS?: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FBxV9YuAfaw.html Ukraine US HARMs vs Russian S-400: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-eSyEOXsjWo8.html Patriot/NASAMS vs Supersonic Missiles: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-i1q7uDeinA4.html Fulcrum/Flanker vs Foxbat/Super Flanker: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BhXfxc94JAU.html NASAMS vs Russian Cruise Missiles: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pJI_b95jzpk.html Russian KH-47M2 vs Polish Air Force: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cnrVxqL5q9w.html Su-27 & Drone vs Snake Island: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-T_oRoU2Ayfo.html Su-25s vs Russian Convoy At Kyiv: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ryV65bUJzrw.html NATO Eurofighters vs Crimean AWACS: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EiJ2dFRh95g.html Patriot, Gepard & Gripen vs KH-65: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZhxdrNjig1g.html A-10s vs Russian Convoy At Kyiv: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-B0tZoo0uLh4.html USN Tomahawk Strike Kerch Bridge: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0vpi8xBygV8.html USAF Stealth Strike Kerch Bridge: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IJbf9Bcxnw0.html Ukrainian Jets Strike Kerch Bridge: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-I8FumuZReB4.html F-22 Raptors vs Russian Fighters: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ComRcmrwJWk.html Raptor/Eagle vs Super Flanker: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-keqYmuSEo-8.html USAF Bombers vs Mariupol Defenses: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aCsboOG0QU4.html Ukraine Bombs Snake Island: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BX696MKdkb8.html Stealth Fighters vs Russian Bombers: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rym90jnQDsA.html Sinking Of Moskva #3: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NIjoyIieOzY.html Sinking Of Moskva #2: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-snjfbj_EwW4.html Sinking Of Moskva #1: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Bxwh6MGLJNc.html Russia Nukes Britain: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rzk45RFQwA8.html Ukraine Uses Danish F-16s: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-17Pikrp0QaY.html Ukraine Uses Polish Mig-29s: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zCi4tAIzuOU.html Russian-Britain Missile Attack: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zwIGfabvzHA.html Ghost Of Kyiv: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Yrct8V4n1-U.html Belgorod Raid: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mQykTxt6ftw.html Eurofighter/Fulcrum vs Super Flanker: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MPyIipEhgR0.html US Strike vs Odessa ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KeiOHgzic6Y.html Russian Helo Rocket Lob: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-118GgGnP_sM.html Russian Su-25 vs US Patriot SAM: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-asp69ZD_tO0.html Understanding Russian SAMs: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-R4xTxLNZXcw.html Ukrainian Jets Road Operations: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hBpzQhinPbw.html Russian 40 Mile Convoy: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Vr_-2FLblBk.html Flanker vs Super Flanker: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VOAuOFLJGk4.html
Their is an Aussie company sending flat pack cardboard cargo drones to Ukraine. Lol lots of fun. You guys are making us Aussies all misty eyed talking about f111 s loved more than any other aircraft. I was following a group on discord a not long ago who were making an f111 C sounds like they ran into trouble with experience with the programming. I'd recommend Catching up with those guys. I think most of the graphics were done.
Ukraine will be victorious in artificial reality. They have no chance in reality unless Brandon and the Republican crazies start WW3, then none of us have a chance.
You idiots realise Russia has 300,000 soldiers kept in reserve by Putin? Do you idiots understand that Ukraine has lost 400,000 soldiers? Compared to Russia’s 40,000 Max?
I really love those complex missions with lots of different assets where all puzzle pieces have to fall into place. Maybe bring back the road bases for those sexy shots of Mig-29s roaring into the sky for their incredibly dangerous mission?
Great job! We actualy have several Su-27s left. not as much as MiG-29 but still, you might use them in some of new recreations. They carry more fuel. Also I don't think they would fly without Fox-1s anyhow to such missions..
@@emmata98 Better to have some way to initiate or reply than no way at all, as the US experienced with the Phantoms having no guns during the Vietnam war.
@@damianwright3690 The thing is, for this mission, you are defensive until the enemy has shot all its fox 3 missiles. And then you already accomplished your goal.
Given that those things can be programmed to look like other objects on radar, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia legit thought they intercepted cruise missiles.
The Ukrainians themselves said it was four cruise missiles and six decoys, and it's more reasonable to believe than the Russian assertion that the Ukrainians sent 10 Storm Shadows and the Russians shot down 7 of them, when the video evidence indicates four explosions in the target area and only one interception.
Yo Grim Reapers!!!! How TF do y'all put out a high-quality video everyday???? It would APPEAR that you all must have no life, but then the intelligence on display says otherwise. Great channel! Thanks!!
@@DoddyIshamel IRL, in the latest pictures, it looks like the Kilo took two hits: one above the torpedo room and one aft of the sail, probably in the engineering space.
@@akizeta looks more like a missile entered aft of the sail and exploded in the torpedo room tbh, but I will leave it to experts to decide whether that lower explosion is outward or inward.
@@DoddyIshamelstorm shadow uses a dual charge warhead, first is a large EFP to breach the target and allow the primary charge to enter a few metres inside the target and then detonate to cause more damage. Sub was almost certainly hit with 2 missiles, with at least 1 hitting the landing ship, and possibly more missiles causing further damage to the landing ship and dock. Most common video shows 3 large explosions, and the recorder was already looking at the area and it's already on fire which says there was an additional blast of some kind, suggesting more than 3 missile hits minimum.
It's really interesting that in Tom Clancy's book Red Storm Rising which was published in 1986, there is a chapter where the USSR used Kelt drones to fool the US Navy missile defense systems before launching Kingfisher cruise missiles that heavily damage the carrier Nimitz and destroyed the troop carrier Foch. Oh the irony.
A low-tech threat needs a low-tech solution. Something like the big fences next to golf courses would probably work pretty well against cardboard drones.
The chat about the mighty F=111 Ardvark (Pig is Australia, the last operator of the type 2010) peaked my interest. As a former airman in the RAAF I never worked on them, always on actual fighters, Mirage IIIO and F/A-18 A/B ++ with ASRAAM, I saw plenty of them and would love to see and fly one in DCS. Please!
I think you should re-run this, the Kh-35's were literally bouncing off that little peninsula ahead of the Pantsirs - they were porpoising up in the air which is why the Pantsir's were able to get such good shots on them.
@@totalnerd5674 Not sure that's the case - the KH-35 is a sea-skimming missile, from the internet: "The Kh-35 has a sea skimming flight profile of 10 to 15 m above sea level, dropping down to 4 m in the terminal phase". So I think hitting the ground is exactly what was happening. One even crashed into the ground on camera.
@@jaymelton2663 It does fly at 4m until it gets to, say, half a kilometer from the target before flying up, and down on to the target. This is to avoid hitting clutter like buildings on the terminal flight.
The Drones used were probably the Australian Spyaq cardboard drones, which has already been used to attack airfields in Kursk, damaging aircrafts parking there. They are slow but neigh undetectable on radar due to their construction.
The cardboard drones are way too small to cause significant damage and probably will have a difficult time in bad weather and wind. They are also slow enough to be targetable by rifles and machine guns in visual range.
@@tonglianheng they are coated with a type of wax substance or something similar to make them water resistant and they are not as light as you think they would be and fly as high and fast as any of the drones that are in use also the payload is a lot bigger than a RPG they are videos you can watch they can carry a payload up to 15 pounds
@@tonglianheng and also their undetectable by radar because they're made out of cardboard and wax they already been used to destroy planes inside kursk airspace.
You can see there were internal explosions, probably there were still torpedoes on board when it got hit. Either way, any single of those hits would have fractured the pressure hull. @@samuraidriver4x4
I saw somewhere plans for a home built 50lb thrust jet engine. I could see the Ukrainians using these for powerplants in drones. I remember the F-111, they were at Mountain Home AFB for a while.
problem i see off the bat is i dont think russia utilizes their awacs like the west does. they simply dont have enough to keep 24/7 coverage and i think thats why the cruise missiles are so effective.
Guys after watching your high altitude mach 12 video, I want you to please build a selection of hypothetical aircraft and missiles that you think can function as a low orbit 'Space Force'.
Finally, you model an SU-24 with Storm Shadows!!!!! "Doh! I used my flares up!" - Cap ... 🤣🤣🤣 I believe they used the Australian pattern drones with the low reflectivity construction. The Ukrainians have reverse engineered the simplistic iranian/russian Shaheeds, so your sim was plausible.
Let Ukraine and Russia do their thing. Tired of hundreds of billions being sent that could get our homeless Veterans off the streets and countless other uses for that money
Wonder why when they were attacked why the ships radars and weapons weren't activated as well. You would think that would overwhelm anything. There were plenty of ships there.
Incase anyone hears it and gets confused. SHORAD is Short Range Air Defense, not Short Range Russian Air defense. Minor nitpick, carry on. EDIT: I'm not sure setting everything to max skill is realistic.. Granted I've JUST started actually learning to play DCS and I get shwacked by rookie setting still, so I might just be wrong and not fully understanding the actual distribution curve here. Regardless, half the Russian shit doesn't even work or has no ammo. That should be taken into account in these scenarios, these are all "Russia at their best" type scenarios and we've seen time and time again that they simply are never even close to that.
Why would you put the air defense guns at 100% max skill? That's not even slightly realistic man not sure why you did that..... When are the russians 100% competent at anything?? If I understand correctly some of them weren't even at their stations when ukraine attacked the Crimean port of Sevastopol.
I suggested that ukraine used a trawler up by Finland to launch attacks against northern Russian bases and manufacturing. Suggested they call it Doolittle 2.0 in Homage to the Doolittle raid on Tokyo in WW2
Yeah there were reports from civilians that at the same time the s400 was hit two groups of guys all in black where spotted off the coast leaving on rubber rib boats there was also reports of the same a couple days before in a different location not very far from where the ships were destroyed in the Harbor I wonder if they're doing sabotage operations in Crimea or using these drones that we keep seeing coming in
The AI wasn't ensuring the suicide drones properly collided with the target when they made "contact", instead passing through and exploding on the ground. Future tactics should thus be to collide on the ground directly beneath the targets. That's my two cents worth.
Apparently at least 3 struck the ship, sub, and maybe drydock. The sub got hit at least twice, the ship at least once, and maybe the dock at least once from the pictures I've seen. Not just 2 missiles hit
Great mission, guys! I know there's only so much of a several-month campaign involving drones, modified S-200 ballistic missiles, HARMs, etc. etc. In a 30-minute mission. I wonder, though, if you would consider recreating the commando raid on the Tarkanhut Peninsula S-400 site in ARMA? IRL, the Ukrainian commandos were able to attack the nearby campsite and toss a satchel charge into the radar. They only left after a russian security guard in his underwear noticed this and chased them away. 😂
Awesome mission. Shows exactly how mission planning works. NATO needs aircraft that are good on a lot of fronts, like fuel capacity, Radar, MAWS, Speed etc.
Off the west coast of crimea there are at least 4 Oil Platforms or some type of platform, but the Ukrainians have taken control of them. Which gives them a launching platform of some sort. Check into it and I am sure you can get some kind of Intel from those platforms they have taking control of....
Russia had been using those rigs for military purposes since the annexation. one of them is fairly close all things considering. Keyword for searching would be: Boyko towers
It doesn't make tactical sense. These oil rigs are fixed targets and their locations are well known and extremely vulnerable/indefensible. If the Ukarinans can launch any attack from there the Russians will for sure have taken the rigs out soon after it. The fact that Russians didn't do it meant these oil rigs were not a part of the war yet.
And they are probably using the liberated gas platforms on the sea as forward staging posts. Maybe even as drone command central for these kind of actions
more then two got thru i seen still pictures on youtube of the sub it has a hole up top and another slightly behind and below the Conning tower slightly aft and a third down the hull.
Ukraine said there was only one SU-24M in the Sevastopol raid firing two cruise missiles (one wing was configured to carry Storm Shadow and the other to carry SCALP), seriously Russians must be close to having claimed to have intercepted every Storm Shadow ever built by now. Which kinda makes sense that they would only risk their small number of SU-24 in limited precision strikes rather than flying large formations of them, eggs and basket.
I just watched a story on this from a RU-vidr named Task & Purpose and he was talking that there were commando style raids against the S-400 site. I may have misunderstood him or confused two different stories. These commandos were trained in Britain by SAS style troops in a crash course and they were used to raise hell in Crimea. Anyways, your recreation was friggin' epic! The drone stuff was a little shaky but you did it.
I'm glad you are moving away from 'murder spec' air-loads, Cap. A couple of missions where they were used were so rediculous that the attack had more top end missiles then the entire nation had IRL! Also especially on QRA they would not want such heavy loaded planes lumbering up into the sky to react quickly to a threat.
"Holiday-maker..." Right. One of you GR guys couldn't pass up that super-cheap VRBO in the Crimea with the amazing view of an S-400 site. "Man, that place was LIT! Way better than Burning Man! Five stars!"
There's actually no evidence that Ukraine attacked with 10 missiles and that all but 3 were destroyed. That's just what the Russians said. The same Russians that claimed that their strategic bombers were only lightly damaged and that the submarine will be repaired soo. :D
And they are probably using the liberated gas platforms on the sea as forward staging posts. Maybe even as drone command central for these kind of actions
SFA. There are actually some systems, (i believe US patriot systems but i'm not 100%), around, but much like the US most of the air defence is in fighters.
@@darthkarl99 patriot system sucked in irak, in saudy arabia and in ukraine, i doubt it will not suck the next time, so i wouldnt count on it, and fighters are not always in air.
The reality is Ukraine only shot 4 Storm Shadows, not 10: that was just the Russians trying to make it appear their Air Defences worked somewhat - there is 0 chance Ukraine would have put up 5 Su-24s at the same time. But with at least 3 getting through, not a bad effort!
This is why layered air defence is crucial. System like S400 are long range systems, and they should have been only one component of a layered air defence system. The sites themselves should have been protected by medium range SAMs, short range SAMs as well as land based CIWS's. Just have long range SAMs alone will leave holes that can be exploited by the enemy.
Thinking why there hasn't been a serious mass attack on the fleet at anchor and maybe the fleet forms the basis of a NATO response if the Russians use a tactical nuke in Ukraine. A sub nuclear NATO response of sinking the Black Sea fleet and total destruction of harbours etc would be a very doable high gain symbolically with less risk of a nuclear response to a non nuclear attack especially cos Ukraine is non NATO.
