That sounds good for spiderman comics like it would make him stand out. They should make ultimate dc everyone is like lobo or macnhester black and superman is the only sane rational guy. Who is like Look I get this is a stressful situation but can we not kill people that surrender I wanted to ask him a question. SUperman could be transport to a mirror world or something and just have him either improve the world slightly or have it break him
This character perfectly illustrated how the Ultimate Universe stopped being relevant as the 616 became more gritty and "real and grounded" enough that they started to occupy the same space but without the edgyness. Reimagining DD as a more realistic story didn't make sense because in the original universe they were already tackling mature themes that the UU started with as a basis that made it seem new and fresh, so DD had no reason to evolve and develop inside the new universe without it going into insane territory.
They could have done a grounded Daredevil were The avengers and spiderman are comic characters he is the only guy that has a power. Kingpin has no power just conections and hes fit, bullseye just has good aim not a power, the owl half the time has no powers they don't matter he is a mob boss, Tone down Mats powers. Purpleman can't exist in this
@@daraghokane4236 I guess they could have also connected his power to the super soldier serum as that was the catalyst for everything from mutants to Spidey. (Which is one of the things I like best from the UU for a reason I can't explain lol)
@Enigmatic Problematic🍻 yeah maybe mix the way the relationships between Fisk, Elektra, Matt and everyone else could've been changed way more. Make Fisk to be Murdock's uncle or something else like that. give it a more personal investment into the dynamics of his personal life
I think that Daredevil could've worked in the Ultimate Universe if he was a contemporary of Spider-Man, a teenage superhero as well. They could also foreshadow his future career into becoming a lawyer.
I know this is a year later but they had a chance for that with the second Ultimate Daredevil only to kill him off after three issues. There was so much potential in Raymond Connor ... I should finish watching videos before making comments, they ended up bringing Ray up.
The thing that really drove me nuts about that Ultimates arch was spending an entire issue on Perun, a throwaway villain from a previous story that most people have probably forgotten about, telling us all about his background, his relationships, his ambitions, his desire to matter more than just his previous crimes...all just for the punchline of killing him off in a single panel. Not that I cared about Perun--nobody cared about Perun, probably--but this was the best possible indication that this franchise was done even pretending it wasn't just wasting our time anymore.
Refresh my memory: wasn't it a vampire incredible hulk that killed him? I vaguely remember the hulk saying perun was "10 for a penny amongst black ops" or something like that...
@@propheci: Yep: Millar had previously created "Nerd Hulk," a clone of the Hulk that had all of Bruce Banner's intellect intact. Then he instantly undermined this character and ensured nobody would ever care about him by proclaiming that this took away the Hulk's "edge" (whatever that means) and rendered him completely ineffectual...for some reason. Millar being MIllar, now that he'd gone out of his way to create a character he had no idea what to do with and ensured nobody cared about him, he killed his Hulk off--by turning him into a vampire. This was actually a great idea, since Vampire Hulk is a terrifying concept for a bad guy, and here we had a ready-made formula for it that didn't demand infringing on the real Hulk character at all. So hey, handy that, finally something to salvage from this debacle. Then they just killed Vampire Hulk too. Of course. On top of that, this was actually one of TWO replacement Hulk characters Millar created and then killed off, in a series that only lasted 24 issues. At least the other guy hung around for a year or so; nobody liked or cared about him, but ya know, readers at least had time to not care...
I felt like the writers and editors were trying too hard to make the characters of that universe "edgy" and "complex", which created the opposite effect and made the characters seem cringey and sort of goofy.
@@drinkmorewater3212 it worked for spidey as it is an important part of the character that isn’t always touched on, but is still a part of his history. Meanwhile everyone else just seems, weirdly out of character despite being a different rendition.
I would kind of love if Marvel (or DC, honestly) gave the Ultimate thing another go now. Not bringing back the Ultimate universe, but giving exciting creators the chance to create a new alternate universe from scratch and carry it on over a few years at least. I worry Marvel wouldn’t be able to do that now, with the Mouse in control and keeping an eye on brand synergy, but it’s a cool experiment. Earth One could’ve been that for DC, had it been better thought out.
Earth one was like the ultimate universe for Dc but no they missed out big. The latest Batman earth one was good but the ending felt rush like he just wanna get it over with.
Would have been better to make UDD either way older or really young, so either he’s an old man who protected the streets of New York in secret along with a group of other street level heroes, becoming a inspiration to spider-man maybe showing Peter some moves on how to fight if he ever runs out web or can’t jump. Or make him the same age as Peter or slightly older, he’s a law student or captain of the debate team, an unassuming disabled kid who shares a class with Peter, he’s always hid his abilities and knows how to fight as he’s trained this helps his abilities. Him and Spidey meet up on a mission and it goes well, UDD teaches spider some fighting techniques which Spidey teaches him some acrobatics. Peter who can heal faster starts noticing Matt is injured in school and thinks he’s in an abusive household so he goes to help him, only to reveal he’s daredevil. These would have been easy ways to introduce the character and it not feel like he’s absent from the universe, show him as being weaker than Spidey so when Spidey becomes and Ultimate it’s very easily explained why Matt does have a book, he’s just simply fighting street crime, could even have him say “I’ll keep the streets safe when you’re up there spidey” creating a unique version of the character while sticking to who he is at his core. Just have him appear every now and then in books, he doesn’t need his own area because he can easily share it.
Agreed that would have been cool especially if they go with the younger version of DareDevil and have him be a sorta reflection of Peter if he was darker and more brutal but did not kill people and have his powers be kore supernatrual based but not OP
▶ Quick correction: Steve Dillon was the artist of Ultimate Avengers 3 and the co-creator of Ray Connor, Leinil Francis Yu was the cover artist for Ray's first appearance in UA #13.
Your videos are always a must watch Owen. Using Daredevil as bait to lure in Matt Draper was also just an inspired choice. Hope to see more Collabs from you guys!
I remember buying Millar’s post-Ultimatum Ultimates in a stack of trade collections to read when I was recovering from dental surgery, and I swear they stung more than the weapons-grade toothache did. Say what you want about his first two Ultimates arcs, at least there it felt like Millar was *trying* to put together a decent story, but that post-ultimatum run just felt like he was taking the piss out of both the characters and the reader.
And I can say alot of positives about the first two Ultimates arcs the alot of the other Marvel related stuff oh boy what positives can I say there's barely any
I think one of the reasons why the ultimate daredevil is so underutilized is because writers didn’t know what to do with him since the Frank Miller run has been so iconic and so beloved that they did not know what to do with him. I actually prefer the Kevin Smith run of daredevil. But then that’s just adding on to Frank Miller anyways.
I'm more of a DC guy myself, but Daredevil is still my number one hero. Such a fantastic hero to root for. I was always disappointed in Ultimate Daredevil, since Ultimate Spider-Man and Millar's run on Ultimate X-Men were some of my favorite series as a teen.
I love this version. He's more brutal and brooding but I do understand why he went nowhere. Because is basically the same version as his counterpart in general. Same origin, same suit, same old. Marvel clearly didn't know what to do with him or make it different than the 616. But I love all his appearances especially in Ultimate Knights & Ultimate X-men Blockbuster arcs.
Damn I actually liked the ultimate universe. Ultimate Spider Man is still my favorite comic book run ever and I actually liked Ultimate Fantastic Four too. Oh well lmao
As someone who has always enjoyed the ultimate universe for its attempts at reinterpretation, I can agree that Daredevil was definitely a missed opportunity in the Ultimate line. And I remember when I first read Ultimate Avengers and when they almost immediately turned DD2 and killed him, my only thoughts were "Okay, but why was he a daredevil though?" Wish they did more with our favorite blind boy.
when i did work on Ray connor for my Marvel universe my intentions was for him to be the son of the French ambassador and would of ended up blinded when his mom died saving him from terrorists and would be train by Matt to become his sidekick and help him on the right path as i would have Daredevil station in chicago and when moving to New york Ray connor would become Kid devil and would deal with crime more his own style and his mom spirit would end up becoming shroud a phantom like superhero that can use people bodies and skills almost like deadman from DC comics
A big reason why Ultimate DareDevil was overlooked was because DareDevil was already going strong in comics at the same time, with Bendis himself writing and Alex Maleev providing some amazing artwork. That, plus the fact that Ultimate DareDevil/Murdock wasn't fundamentally very different from the traditional version made the whole run rather pointless. As someone who bought and collected back then, I didn't feel the need to follow any other DareDevil story but the Bendis/Maleev run.
Honestly, while I like comic books and graphic novels, I haven't read many in the last couple of decades. That's why I like channels like yours. I can catch up on favorite characters of my past. One of my all time titles was the Marvel Team-Up when Spidey was the main 1/2 of the team. I especially remember the edition where Spidey and NOVA tried to solve a murder. The solution is on the cover, I think. The Ultimate universe sounds like Daredevil could've been so much more.
I mainly read Ultimate Spider-Man and I enjoyed when Daredevil would guest star- and I remember being disappointed when I tried to search for an Ultimate Daredevil series only to find out he only ever had that Elektra prequel series. Honestly I never hated how his death was handled. It sucks that he died off screen but I enjoyed seeing Peter’s POV of finding him and the tragedy of finding a fallen hero that you can’t even recognize who they are underneath the mask (tho of course that’s also a continuity error that I didn’t catch till this video). I think his death would’ve been better if he had his own Ultimate Daredevil solo series where we were with him when he died, and in general he really should have had his own solo run I knew he had a successor in the pages of ultimate avengers but I never read those comics myself, but hearing their story now WOW what a train wreck. Everything to do with Ultimates between 2 and the Hickman arc involving the Maker seems like complete nonsense trying too hard to be different from 616.
If you enjoy making these videos on ultimate comics character, please keep doing them! I enjoy them since I've never read ultimate comics other than Miles. Hope you do captain america next!
Wasn’t aware of this channel but clicked on it because I really enjoy Matt’s videos. Love what I’m hearing. Subscribing and checking out your other videos.
As you mention in your video, the OG Daredevil IS already an „Ultimate“ superheroes in a lot of ways. They should have just been more brave and do something completely different. Just thinking on my feet, how about combining Moon Knight and Daredevil into one character where instead of an Egyptian God he sees the devil, since the costume? I dont know. Just SOMETHING different would have been cool.
Might as well throw a little bit of ghost rider in that mix too since moon knight and ghost rider have similar power acquisitions Blind, is the vessel of a demon/devil, controls fire, when he pulls back his mask, he uses soul judgment
Congrats on 70 thousand subs! I love watching your channel, such great and interesting content! Hopefully you can reach 100 thousands subscribers by the end of the year!
The way i always intended to do Daredevil in my marvel universe is set him up with a Teamup with Spider-man when Kingpin and Tombstone would team up together and be from Chicago and would be a mix of his main marvel and Ultimate comics as he would be hard on spider-man for being a kid but would later learn why he became a hero making him realize he was a lot like him and would also have Ray connor be Daredevil sidekick when he was blinded himself and became Kid Devil and be station in new york and be Spider-woman team when dealing with the Hobgoblin uprising
Though i'm not the biggest fan of the Ultimate Universe, Owen's videos about it are probably my favorites. I'm fascinated by the Ultimate Universe and respect its attempt to be its own thing. Sadly though it lead to heroes (except Spider-Man) being jerks, Captain America being conservative trash, incest and cannibalism.
Ultimate Marvel and Walking Dead were my entry into comic collecting, mainly because they were mostly self contained universes without decades of baggage. It helped they they were sold in volumes of hardcover books that looked nice on a shelf, well until Ultimatum ruined everything including the book covers.
It put such a big smile on my face when I suddenly heard Matt Draper's voice LOL! I literally just clicked on this video out of boredom, and had no idea that it was a collab LOL!
I'm not sure if it's mentioned in the comments but Elektra dies after getting a moon blade thrown into the back of the head by Moon Knight. I think it's Ultimate spiderman issue 85.
The more I think about it, they should have made Matt Murdock a teenager in the Ultimate Universe and showcased his journey to becoming DareDevil in a similar way to how they did with Peter Parker. My pitch would have been to focus on Matt dealing with the death of his father and the loss of his eyesight, while also discovering clues about the identity of his mother, who disappeared a year after he was born.
I can't remember who wrote it but I remember reading an article about how Ultimate Daredevil just didn't do enough different, and then when they killed Matt off, his replacement was STILL exactly like him which is unfortunate and silly. I'm a huge Daredevil fan and never checked out the Ultimate Daredevil stuff.
Had no idea there was a replacement Daredevil after Murdock died. The fact that he was basically teen-Matt Murdock really sucks, and yet despite that I still somehow feel bad for him getting turned into a vampire and then dying anyway. Maybe Marvel wasn’t financially bankrupt anymore, but creatively?…..
Well researched and informative, if however a disappointing look at what transpired. I coincidentally dropped off on the ultimates line around the time Jeph Loeb started on it, so saw the heights of Bendis's run on Spidey and the start of the decline of the whole concept.
I love your videos. This deep dive into the making of characters and story arcs, be they failures or successes, speaks volumes to the complexity and effort that goes into comics that is sometimes ignored. Thank you for what you do, Owen!!
I always forget Daredevil was in the Ultimate Universe. Awesome job Owen, and fun appearance from Matt. Should have known, Matt is like Beetlejuice if you say Daredevil enough.
Kid! Daredevil was wasted potential in Earth 1610 and reeked of Mark Millar's typical "Hahaha this superhero would get REKT in a realistic setting" type of writing. Thinking more about it, a young blind teenager rocking Matt Murdock's yellow suit who's faith hasn't been severely tested by a corrupt status quo would make for a compelling title in the mainstream line of Marvel comics.
To be fair. I do think ultimate Daredevil was kinda right for being harder on Spider-man since he was a kid who really didn't know what he was getting himself into and ultimately kinda right since being Spider-man did eventually kill him
" a parade of sadism" Sounds like invincible. And the replacement characters are so far removed from iconic and have no personality that their deaths mostly don't matter, or get any time.
I love Daredevil. He's my second favorite Marvel character behind only Spider-Man. DD is also my 4th favorite Super Hero behind Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman
While I agree with this video's assessment of the Ultimate Daredevil character, I did appreciate his different relationship with Peter Parker. The way he looked down on the younger Spider-Man felt realistic and earned, if harsh.
Ultimate Avengers 3 might not be the best story, but it was drawn by Steve Dillon and I think his art was actually pretty strong in some sequences. Hopefully you can add a correction that actually credits him for his work on the book.
My mistake: Dillion did a really good job on the art and I should have credited him. Leinil Francis Yu provided covert art for DD's debut issue, Steve did the interiors.
I liked everytime DD appeared in the Ultimate universe, despite his presence being only quick and done he had some competency and maturity to contrast Spider-Man. Even him being pushed into breaking the rules and trying to kill Kingpin was interesting. And then they killed him offscreen in Ultimatum, and even worse they bring a new Daredevil that dies in the same story he debuts.
Well this is the thing, with Daredevil, when it comes to Marvel. If he didn't exist, they'ld have to create him. He is, whether we like it or not. Marvels Batman. Nobody else, fulfills that role.
To be honest, Brian Michael Bendis was never a good writer in my honest oppinion. He wrote many good spiderman stories, but kept repeating the same arc over and over again (Green Goblin dies, but survived and escaped SHIELD like a hundred times). Also, Bendis is very biased and makes some villains stupid for the sake of plot or a clever ending. Still, I will give him props for making the more grounded stories into actually good stories. All his Kingpin arcs are actually very good. But overall, he doesn't care about continuity.
I remember Ultimatum - I didn't have a lot of cash flow at the time (being a kid) so I ended up buying That One Spider-Man issue with what I had without a lot of context for... literally anything happening. So my one contemporary taste of Ultimate Daredevil and Ultimate Hulk ended up being 'dead and kind of a jerk' and 'Not Automatically Composed Of Raw Terror'. Kinda disappointing to hear how poorly DD was used before that point.
In the “ conclusion “ section of this it looks like Steve Dillon to me. Can anyone tell me what run this is? He’s one of my favourites and I’ve not read this. I want to read everything he’s been involved in. Thanks in advance DM
Ultimate Moon Knight was done a lot better. Sure, the changes made to his character weren't amazing but at least they did make him different from his 616 counterpart. The arcs including him are my favourite in Ultimate Spider-Man. It's too bad he didn't at least get a miniseries.