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Ultimate Guide to Primer - HC 318 

Vince Venturella
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28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 988   
@stefanblackadder5236
@stefanblackadder5236 2 года назад
I’m a “historical figure painter “ and I’ve learned so much from you. If this is your creative outlet, then, and I’m not kidding here, you’re a national treasure.
@scomae5445
@scomae5445 2 года назад
I'd say international because I'm not from the USA and really love vince's video :)
@ArchBunBun
@ArchBunBun 2 года назад
No kidding! God I wish he would just go get a patreon so that I could start giving back a little. This is the best resource out there by far.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Well thank you, yes, this is my creative outlet and hobby and I am always glad to help people. That means a great deal to me and happy to help. :)
@stanlee2200
@stanlee2200 2 года назад
Historical painter...does that mean youre really old? Lol im kidding
@stefanblackadder5236
@stefanblackadder5236 2 года назад
@@stanlee2200 actually yes…haha haha
@ScytheNoire
@ScytheNoire 2 года назад
One useful thing to do after a zenithal highlight is to take a picture of it. This lets you call back to it to make sure you are getting your shades and highlights correct. Just another reference point tool to use. Can also then use an graphic edit program to do test paint schemes. I think Lyla Mev was the first place I heard about doing this.
@endlessfight
@endlessfight 2 года назад
You always have such a concise delivery, while remaining personable. I truly appreciate your ability to suggest what we may already know, without condescension. It is with this approach that we are able to proceed and grow in a safe space with a safe mentor. I can’t thank you enough for your contribution to our hobby.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Thank you, that means a great deal and I am always happy to help.
@drizzitdude
@drizzitdude 2 года назад
My favorite primer is Vallejo Surface Primer black. Even when applied with a brush, it is almost like magic how well it comes out and it actually saves you on paint! I have a large brush I generally use for priming when I am working and can't use an airbrush. With Vallejo Surface Primer you can put one drop of black on a wet pallet and is that will be enough to get through an entire miniature, what is really crazy about it is how thin it comes out, it never mucks up details or crevices even when I feel like I got too much on a brush. It feels like it is somehow noob-proof primer. I cannot recommend it enough.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
I am a big fan for sure.
@RAINBOWBEARMAN
@RAINBOWBEARMAN 18 минут назад
so this is a good one for brush on? I live in an apartment. Don't have cash for an airbrush or the room inside + cats. I can use a can outside, they forbid it and I got in trouble last time. kinda stuck.
@grumpymeggo
@grumpymeggo 2 года назад
I would say one advantage of "miniature rattle can primers" e.g. Army Painter is that you can get specific colors that match with the colors of their miniature paint range.
@kobold_ts
@kobold_ts 2 года назад
Not sure how about AP but sprays from GW don't match their pot paints, like, at all. You get two products of the same name (e.g. Mechanicus Standard Grey), one in a can, one in a pot - and the shades will be completely different.
@grumpymeggo
@grumpymeggo 2 года назад
@@kobold_ts The AP sprays I had in the past did match! 👍🏻
@DMNKLR_official
@DMNKLR_official 2 года назад
@@kobold_ts yeah the TAP ones are guaranteed to match. Oddly, the bigger issue is that their paints in the bottles don't always match, so when buying a replacement bottle, one need be picky and see it in person or spin the roulette wheel and hope for the best.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
I get that and I can see where that is valuable I suppose. For myself, any red that looks close is basically going to be fine.
@MrMockigton
@MrMockigton 2 года назад
@@VinceVenturella agreed. even if i prime in the "correct" colour, i never just leave that primer layer as it is.
@Butter2731
@Butter2731 2 года назад
Your channel is an absolute treasure trove for new painters like myself! Thank you so much for all the work you put into these videos!
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
You're very welcome!
@kevinhayes517
@kevinhayes517 2 года назад
A very useful “primer” on primers…..really appreciate the time you spend and the clarity you bring to each subject. And thanks for talking about the curing times on the primers: this will save me a lot of time as I usually wait at least 1-2 days to make sure it’s fully dry and set. Thanks again!
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Always happy to help. :)
@jamesgalbreath343
@jamesgalbreath343 2 года назад
Very helpful video! As someone just beginning to play around the edges of this craft, I really needed a basic explanation of priming. Suggestion: it would be very helpful to have an explanation of "reading" the miniature before priming and painting. I know for those who are experts this comes instinctively, but watching you take a raw miniature and explain how you analyze that paint layering prior to doing any of the actual application of anything to the surface would be immensely helpful. Show how you "map" the project in your mind in order to choose primer and colors?
@jamminghaze
@jamminghaze 2 года назад
well planned is half done. XD
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
I'll see what I can do. :)
@jamesgalbreath343
@jamesgalbreath343 2 года назад
@@VinceVenturella Thanks, I'll look forward to it!
@ElPrezAU
@ElPrezAU 2 года назад
Great video as always. Commenting to say that if you ever get the opportunity, give Molotow All in One a go. I previously used Vallejo and Stynylrez but after Molotow I'm never going back. Ridiculously durable, super thin (sprays through my .3mm HP BH out of the bottle with no issues at all) and lays down smoother than any other primer I've used. Even though it's not, strictly speaking, sold as a primer (it's actually a marker formulation for graffiti artists) it remains an excellent adhesive surface for subsequent layers of paint. It's one of those products that leaves you thinking there is some form of witchcraft at play after you use it. :)
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yep, it's really good stuff, but it's hard to find in the US. :)
@HeadHunterSix
@HeadHunterSix 2 года назад
From my own experience, it doesn't matter if your paint is "opaque" over a xenithal primer - the color of a primer can and does affect the tone of the colors placed over it, even if you can't "see through" at all. I learned that when painting Imperial Fists. Tried over pink, white, red-brown and neutral primers and even once I got an even coat, they still all looked different.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yes, this is espcially true with brighter colors. The more saturated the hue, the more it can be affected especially by dark primers.
@scurvyphansen
@scurvyphansen Год назад
As a relatively new painter of miniatures, this was extremely informative to me. I'll never reach high-level painting skill, but this kind of info will help me at least not get embarrassed by my figures on the game table. Thank you.
@derricklung
@derricklung Год назад
Thank you for these high yield tips! Helped me have my best priming session since I started the hobby 3 years ago!
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella Год назад
Wonderful!
@RossBobbie
@RossBobbie 2 года назад
I would also add gesso as a brush on primer, it acts a little different than just a paint.
@the_elder_medium
@the_elder_medium 2 года назад
I have had good results with acrylic gesso as well. Even when thinned and run through my airbrush. They're ultra matte and perform well.
@DMNKLR_official
@DMNKLR_official 2 года назад
I use gesso for all of my Reaper Bones minis, and Stynylrez for everything else. The 2 work so perfectly for those applications. Just whatever you do, don't thin/reduce the gesso with water, for Bones anyway, cuz it'll have a heckuva hard time adhering. Made that mistake early on, and learned my lesson quick!
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
It is another interesting option.
@TheTruthx58
@TheTruthx58 2 года назад
I use Gesso because I don't want to go inside and outside all time as I live in an apartment and setting up/getting an airbrush is also incredibly annoying. The only issue I've bumped into is sometimes they have small little pinholes that you have to touch up.
@Thomas-r8w9x
@Thomas-r8w9x Месяц назад
I have gotten a lot from this video. Thanks for all the things I must think about as I am getting started. I was not aware of the two colour priming and seeing it made the point. I am going to adopt that method immediately and see the effect in real life. I believe it will add a touch of life and interest to the clay figures I will be painting. I used a lot of rattle can primer when painting scale models but found that in the course of th year, I spent too much compared to the cost of air brushing the primer.
@giraton1
@giraton1 2 года назад
The only thing I swear by when it comes to rattle cans is I can't trust white from non-miniature sprays, cause the pigments from hardware store cans can vary drastically and I find they clump far more often than the miniature cans. Grey or black is just 1 to 1 the same, white I'm a lot more picky on. Not that I really use rattle cans these days anyway.
@Mikey__R
@Mikey__R 2 года назад
I wouldn't go anywhere near a white rattle can. I'd use grey rattle can, then give it an all over coat of MIG Sand primer.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
I would generally recommend to stay away from all true white rattle cans in general. :)
@pedroalves6425
@pedroalves6425 Год назад
Best tutorials on the internet! Thank you. Very comprehensive.
@timburgis8339
@timburgis8339 2 года назад
I'd be interested to know if anyone uses a zenithal technique when painting a strong OSL effect. If you had a mini standing by a fire why not just zenithal prime from the position of the fire rather than from above?
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yep, that's why I mention the other names. Really, you're just creating a lighting scheme.
@adfmac
@adfmac 2 года назад
The ‘zenithal’ part of a zenithal prime is the spraying from above, if you change the position of the light it is no longer zenithal, but some other directional tonal sketch.
@EArkham
@EArkham 2 года назад
Have you ever tried priming with Molotow? I tried them after watching a MarcoNJM vid, and have been hooked ever since. What are your thoughts?
@Thornbeard
@Thornbeard 2 года назад
Dude that is what I prime with as well. Same story with Marco as well, got some from Bombing Science in the 180ml refill bottles (Black, Grey, and White). I haven't looked back since. Goes on so smooth and really sticks.
@jordydavis6642
@jordydavis6642 2 года назад
If someone isn't 100% Molotow it is because they haven't actually tried it yet plain and simple. Easily the best primer you can get hands down
@nubbetudde8922
@nubbetudde8922 2 года назад
I do not now if it is the best, but it works great in my experience. I am pondering to test one of their sticks on anything and covers anything black marker colors I am just a little concerned that it will kill my airbrush.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
They are hard to get in the states, but I know Marco swears by them,.
@jordydavis6642
@jordydavis6642 2 года назад
@@VinceVenturella I get mine from Blick Art Supply! It's always in stock everytime I check. I would highly suggest at least getting the black and trying it for sure. It's a very smooth thin coat with no thinner needed, but some might be deterred by the satin finish.
@weinstocksart6155
@weinstocksart6155 2 года назад
Graffiti rattle cans I've heard are good. They have different tips that allow you more control of the paint exiting the can.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
This is correct, it's still the same stuff, but you can have a lot better control.
@Lemonlord777
@Lemonlord777 2 года назад
Great and useful video as always. If anyone is having big issues with priming and just cant figure out what they are doing wrong, id recommend trying a different primer. I couldnt for the life of me get vallejo surface primer to stick to anything. After drying and curing it just peeled off completely at the lightest touch of a finger. Tried multiple bottles and different colors and talked to various users of the product and never figured it out. I switched to stynelrez and problem solved instantly. 3 years later i still have no idea what was wrong. So if youre a newbie and something just seems like a product flat out doesnt work, you might not be crazy, it might just not be working for some reason even when everyone else says it works fine for them.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Honestly, that is really good advice, especially since there is often intangible qualities to how well primers work (humidity and other factors).
@youtmeme
@youtmeme Год назад
excellent!! as a newbie painter of miniatures, I have not painted anything before except in school, I find all this info awesome!!! ty!!!😊👍🤙✌✌
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella Год назад
Glad it was helpful!
@Volcodom
@Volcodom 2 года назад
Oof I have felt the pain of letting primer sit too long in the cup and getting my needle stuck. Great video as always and not too much focus to get us into the weeds. The talk of angled zenithal priming can become so obtuse (even when I explain it) because once you get to the point where you are experimenting with value sketches that's all you end up talking about. I think Marco's fantastic video on rattle cans is a premium next watch for the crowd that has big projects they want to do well, and I've found Uncle Atoms demo on how to prime terrain gives a great overview of the actual spray technique to keep rattle paint smooth, but for the basics of priming and getting an understanding of how it all works and a general idea of when to use each tool this is a grade A resource that I'll come back to many time. Thanks as always Vince your vids have made me a better painter many times over.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
That's wonderful to hear and I am happy to help (I love both of the videos you mentioned as well). :)
@absolutecardboard1703
@absolutecardboard1703 2 года назад
I'm just getting into the hobby and this cleared up ALOT for me. Thank you so much!
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
You are so welcome! Always happy to help. :)
@andimusprime3383
@andimusprime3383 2 года назад
Great as always Vince. I would love a similar video on varnishes some day
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Great suggestion!
@Berry-gs4xr
@Berry-gs4xr Год назад
Hey, I skipped that video for a very long time, because I'm into the hobby over a very long time and thought it contained nothing new for me anyway. Today this video reapeared in my playlist and I listened to it during some gaming as "background entertainment". And I got to say, I was right. It told me nothing new. But actually this is totaly fine to me. As said, I would call myself as expirienced, too. So to my mind this is realy a high quality description of primers and a helpfull video. And I totaly agree with every word said in here. There is just one option, which i personaly do which is not listed in here: I personaly use a dry brush to apply my "zenithal highlight effects" (as long as you still want to call it this way). But the reason why I do this is lazyness. My Airbrushstation is build up in my garage, because noone cares about the spraydusk in there it got fresh air ect. but often, during the wintermonths this spot is cold, too and sitting on a table in your heated house over hours and painting your models is much more comfortable. So for me the quality standard, which I achive with this is often enough for me, but I know it's by far not perfect. But jeah, if a newcomer on fb or anything else asks how to start in the hobby and we talk about priming moddels, I actually give him/her the same hobby tips around priming, as u told here. So in my mind a realy good video u've made here.
@marcbowling6451
@marcbowling6451 Год назад
I brush primer on during my lunch hour at work just so some sort of forward progress is made. I also have thoracic outlet syndrome so sometimes I literally can't airbrush or rattle can but can brush it on. Just some uses for it. Thanks for the content!
@nikroth
@nikroth 5 месяцев назад
Thank you ! I was in real need of what to pick for my next primer !!
@briangilgan
@briangilgan 2 года назад
I've used all three airbrush primers mentioned in this video, but Stynylrez is the only one of the three that is sandable without tearing. And to get to that point, I find it has to cure for 8 hours or so. If you never miss seams or mold lines during your prep, this probably isn't a concern, but I can hardly live without it being sandable.
@buzzedaldrin7316
@buzzedaldrin7316 2 года назад
I found this out the hard way recently. Vallejo released datasheets which says that their primer can be sanded but after following their directions to the letter i found this is definitely not the case. After letting it cure for an entire day it tore when i attempted to lightly sand with 1000 grit paper.
@questgivercyradis8462
@questgivercyradis8462 2 года назад
I think Miniac did a video a few years ago about primers too, including which ones could be sanded and which ones couldn't be. Vallejo definitely dries a bit like a skin on the figure, not a hard item. Not all bad but if you wanted to sand, oof.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
I will be honest, I rarely sand primers, so I didn't think of this particular point.
@printandplaygamer7134
@printandplaygamer7134 2 года назад
I inherited an airbrush, but haven't worked up the guts to use it yet. I use rattlecan primers (usually Krylon Ultra Flat Camo line, per Tabletop Minions) whenever weather permits, but in a pinch, I will brush on the Vallejo Surface Primer. Brushing it on is slower than spray priming, sure, but I haven't had any problems with adhesion or obscured details. Each fall, I try to assemble and prime a good supply of units to paint thru the no-rattlecan months of the winter, but when I need to paint an unprepped model or two in the dead of winter, brushing on the Vallejo Surface gets the job done.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
If you have the airbrush, get after it! There is no reason to be afraid and you never improve if you don't start. There is nothing scary about it and I have videos on cleaning. You can do it!
@loweloking88
@loweloking88 27 дней назад
I just wanted to point out where you said the cheap 2x primer is of equal value as Army Painter. I took your word for it and it’s very apparent to me there’s a CLEAR difference between cheap 2X and Army Painter/Citadel White Scar. Brand miniature primer bonds instantly and is more matted. The 2X is far more gluey feeling and doesn’t dry or matte as well. I really hope this doesn’t ruin my 3D printed Grail Knights because they 100% aren’t the same sir
@krzysztofmathews738
@krzysztofmathews738 2 года назад
This is an excellent, very clearly articulated overview. Very good!
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Thank you, always happy to help. :)
@michealpulkka6809
@michealpulkka6809 Год назад
aight, even if proper shading is a bit too intimidating before I've brushed a single stroke on my minis, the zenithal I put on just looks so cool.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella Год назад
Absolutely!
@nathanlovin
@nathanlovin Год назад
Wow. Started back into the hobby in June this year. It’s December now and I just bought an airbrush. Glad to hear I’m ok track 😂 got so tired of seeing all the things you could do with it.
@michaelteller7503
@michaelteller7503 11 месяцев назад
Dumb place to ask this, but why not: i just got an airbrush (thanks to inspiration from you and Marco Frisoni). I put liquitex white ink in undiluted and with vallejo ab medium (thinner and flow imp) and it settled in recesses like a wash rather than creating a smooth zenithal. I could add a little medium to thicken it, but Ive seen youtubers use it straight and Id rather fix my skill issues than thicken it for a quick fix.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 11 месяцев назад
Sounds like either too thin, or too much PSI or too much ink. When you first start with your airbrush, you don't have the trigger control, so you're either blowing too much air, ink or thinning it too much. You likely need to be lighter on the trigger and try to get a soft gentle mist of the ink and build it up.
@walterdimmick653
@walterdimmick653 2 года назад
Great video, here are some additional tips and considerations: 1: Alternative to rattle cans for scenery. Small or "mini" automotive spray guns are very inexpensive. A seviceable gun will cost like same as 2 or 3 GW brand rattle cans. You probably will need a garage 1-3 hp pancake compressor though, less than $100 and of course can be used to fill car, bicycle tires etc. This setup will allow you to have a wide spray pattern like a rattle can as compared to an airbrush. In the mid to longterm even if you do not have a compressor, if you are doing a fair amount of scenery, this will be a very good option from an economic perspective. The pancake types can be oil-less but if you run it in a filthy environment the teflon coatings can degrade fast. A negative of this type of compressor is that they are extremely noisy. So wear hearing protection and consider who else is home, etc. 2. Brush on primers. This is from the perspective of someone that has been painting wargame miniatures since 84, worked as professional house and automotive painter as a college student and worked with all kinds of materials. Anyway, brush on primers can be very useful, specially if you live in a very cold climate and if you are set up for it. Wouldnt use it for any vehicles though. First I noticed that you only really talked about water based brush on primers in your video. These can be more problematic for injection plastic than resin or metal figures. This is due to the low adhesion to the surface in a liquid state and water tension drawing the paint away from some of the surface and forming droplets, bubbles, and uncovering where you laid down primer. If you need to paint a plastic figure with brush on primer I suggest using an oil based primer. These are readily available in any train hobby shop and well stocked hobby stores that also sell model cars and trains. Water base primer works better on resin or metal but there is a lot of variability and I have tried out, many, many brands over the years. I suggest if you do this approach to get a brush and dedicate it to the single purpose of oil based priming and clean it well with mineral spirits immediately when done. I do not use brush on primers except as last resort. But lets say you just want to prime a small warband in the middle of the winter in a very cold climate, then it is a good option.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Good thoughts all around.
@Tabaskuh
@Tabaskuh 2 года назад
I use vallejo black airbrush primer to paint it with brush when I am doing some prototyping of a base. It is fast, covers well and I do not have to hassle with the airbrush cleaning and setting up step. It is just more convenient for small quantities. However, for minis I would not use brush on primer.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
I get that for bases, that makes sense.
@lawrenceelgrin2205
@lawrenceelgrin2205 2 года назад
An advanced thing to shadow. In nature everything reflects off of one another, and it's all OSL, look at master charcoal figure studies on stained parchment. And the brilliant mini painters that use the technique. Take your hand and place it farther and closer to different objects. Your hand's shadows change brightness and hue.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Well said!
@maxs-lz4pn
@maxs-lz4pn 2 месяца назад
I knew i was just gonna have to suck it up and use airbrush primer 😂 i just needed a gentle push because im so attached to the ole rattle cans
@alecryan5962
@alecryan5962 2 года назад
Was honestly expecting to be told that the Rust-o-leum primers were worthless and the miniature rattlecans were the only rattlecans worth using. Glad to hear that I don't have to spend $15 whenever I want a new color of primer
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Nope, just additional money for nothing. :)
@BarokaiRein
@BarokaiRein 2 года назад
Personally I'm a big fan of scale75 black primer. Covers well,no issues with bubbling like vallejo one does,it's really matte and I just do a zenithal with white ink. Hasn't let me down yet.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Haven't tried them, but I should give them a try
@matthew-wyattburress3958
@matthew-wyattburress3958 2 года назад
As someone who works with very thin layers, and butter fingers I have issues rubbing the primer off. Even with a Matt varnish layers on top. I’ve become a pretty big fan of the MiG one shot primers. Once it dries it’s really not going anywhere without some roughing up.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Good note. :)
@MarldainLunas
@MarldainLunas 2 года назад
I personally like starting with a light gray, simply because it can be worked up or down in value. I originally learned it using leather paints. The strength of pigments varies wildly, and since light gray is the ultimate mid, it keeps all of your other layers smoother to apply.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yes, neutral is much better if you're starting from a single color.
@voidspark7727
@voidspark7727 2 года назад
Thank you for this video, specifically about the gloss primer, I was unaware that is was unsuitable for priming minis.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Always happy to help. :)
@kraftybrigitte
@kraftybrigitte 2 года назад
Thank you Vince. I have an airbrush but always have problems with spattering or the paint not coming out. I will try your trick with the couple of drops of thinner BEFORE putting the paint in.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
You may want to also check the nozzle and order a needle cleaning tool, if you have primer adhered to the inside of the tiny brass nozzle it will have problems going forward.
@kraftybrigitte
@kraftybrigitte 2 года назад
@@VinceVenturella thank you so much!!! I do have the cleaning kit but never used it!! Will certainly do now lol
@joaofilhobarbosa6891
@joaofilhobarbosa6891 Год назад
Fantástico, Vince. Tirou todas as minhas dúvidas sobre primer. Obrigado
@bencoomer2000
@bencoomer2000 2 года назад
Honestly, I've taken to taking a fair amount of steps on "priming", with zenithal and washings and drybrushings because I can see all the details on things.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yep, just being able to "read" the miniature is a big deal.
@johnbruce4004
@johnbruce4004 2 года назад
Informative video. One may say good coverage. Like the drops of thinner first for a/b tip. Thanks.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Glad it was helpful!
@codelicious6590
@codelicious6590 2 года назад
I didnt think the specifically for miniatures rattlecans had different paints in them but I did assume that, for the increased price maybe the nozzles were designed to spray a finer mist for preserving details? If not, wow what a racket charging three times the amount for the same thing!
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Some have a slightly different nozzle (but the secret is, you can actually buy those nozzles for a few pennies online as well). :)
@adamfox1669
@adamfox1669 2 года назад
I remember priming my 25mm minifigs with auto-primer(ochre in color!) We've come a long way! Thanks
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Indeed. :)
@davidbenson1870
@davidbenson1870 2 года назад
I've really gotten good results with the Krylon Camouflage rattlecans. I use the darker brown and then the sand or khaki overtop for a nice zenithal effect. Much cheaper than AP or GW and the results are just as good...
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yep, there isn't much reason for the more expensive cans.
@codybrown3844
@codybrown3844 Год назад
Latepost - but I have found that if I get a rough rattlecan prime finish, like what happens when your can is too far from the model, taking a stiff-bristled toothbrush to the area/model can salvage it sometimes. If you NEED a buttery smooth prime you are still better off repriming
@susiduo3438
@susiduo3438 2 года назад
Back in the 90s we primed AND varnished with thick acryl paint in one thick coat :D
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Oh, I was there. :)
@helmhurst
@helmhurst 2 года назад
info' is priceless bro'. thanks
@SpringfieldFatts
@SpringfieldFatts 2 года назад
Notes on scale: 15mm and smaller black undercoats make painting incredibly easier as you simply have to block out rough sections of a model and allow the black to produce the shading / paneling effect for you. It becomes more about the suggestion of details rather than picking every little thing out like you would with white or grey.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
That's fair.
@h347h
@h347h 2 года назад
2 cases for brush on primer. Living in places like Canada and Northern EU/Russia where the climate makes rattle cans difficult to use most of the year and you don't own/can't afford an air brush. The second being for touch ups on metal miniatures when some of the paint chips off when the metal bents from a fall or something similar.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yes, as I said, if you have no other options, it's what you have to do.
@aspermypreviousemail5907
@aspermypreviousemail5907 2 года назад
I enjoyed this video because even if I didn't need any more information about primers, I did need more Vince in my life.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Thank you, always happy to help. :)
@AaronVgoat
@AaronVgoat 2 года назад
If your looking for a fantastic rattle can primer if you can find it then I swear by mr hobby black primer 1500. It’s super fine and they have an aqueous version which is a 1000 grit water based primer. Absolutely fantastic.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Good note!
@davidblenner9082
@davidblenner9082 2 года назад
Thanks for doing this. I am going to order an airbrush now!!
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Have fun! It's an awesome tool. :)
@dlmdlm7685
@dlmdlm7685 2 года назад
I live in michigan half the year it's at least 75% humidity and never wait more than 10-15 minutes after priming. With airbrush always. Use Ak primer mostly idk if that matters. I put white ink almost right after and dry brush often for under paint no issue. Tamiya has a spray can type called super fine I think that or the graffiti acrylic cans might work better than other types. Ive used the iron lack and Montana acrylic cans with airbrush on murals a bunch there way thinner and control well.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Good notes.
@marcinbaltazarsarnikowski5891
@marcinbaltazarsarnikowski5891 2 года назад
Wow, I just realized that your head is a great reference for painting Stanis from asoif.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
It's a good reference for anything shiny. ;)
@spamstabber
@spamstabber 2 года назад
I see a lot of Spanish miniature painters that only ever use black primer, and use it as their deepest shadows. Works very well but takes some getting used to, most of us naturally try to cover all of the primer with base coats.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yep, that can be a reason to keep black primer, it's a more difficult technique and I generally wouldn't recommend it for someone new, but you can certainly do so, especially helpful if you have a more complicated lighting scheme.
@SvenEnterlein
@SvenEnterlein 2 года назад
Question about zenithal: Would you rather use different colored primers or inks? I don't remember ever seeing you use primer but rather go straight to inks.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
I do both, just depends on the color I want, either is fine, but you have to let the inks cure and if you're not careful, they can reactivate.
@SvenEnterlein
@SvenEnterlein 2 года назад
@@VinceVenturella Thanks! I had the feeling inks are very fragile but maybe I was too impatient.
@honeybadgerbravo
@honeybadgerbravo 2 года назад
Moltow makes a great paint that can be used in an airbrush as a primer. It's called one4all. You can get it in a rattle can as well. Just wanted to throw that one out there.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yes, I can't get any around here, but it's a very good option.
@MaNameOtis
@MaNameOtis Год назад
Really great video ! Didn't see anyone out here on yt reviewing this prime theme as detailed as you. My question is : Would you say everything bigger then miniatures would require rattlecan primer or if I want to print statues from 10-30cm air brushing is better ?
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella Год назад
I generally prefer airbrushing unless you're getting really large.
@ryansergeant2896
@ryansergeant2896 2 года назад
Thank you Vince. Very helpful
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Glad it was helpful!
@AzaMinis
@AzaMinis 2 года назад
I find that my airbrush primers take forever to cure IF I use flow improver. However, the flow improver helps me get a much better spray. So YMMV
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Intetresting, I use an 80/20 mix of thinner and flow improver and that generally keeps everything moving and still allows a fast dry. :)
@Kaelan.B
@Kaelan.B 2 года назад
Awesome Video, Vince. Quick Question: When would you use Vallejo 'Gloss Black' primer vs. just 'Black'?
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Basically never, but one potential case is if you are going to do airbrush metallics over the top, it can help there.
@mikekloepfer7424
@mikekloepfer7424 2 года назад
Hi Vince - This is a little off topic, but what *IS* that painting/mural on the wall? (Behind the display case.) I'd love to see the whole thing. Thanks again for the GREAT content. Mikey
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
My whole wall there is the 10th doctors tardis, it's as though you're looking down into it (it's actually wall paper). :)
@tombombadil9338
@tombombadil9338 2 года назад
I was wondering where the ProArcyl Primer was. Love that stuff.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
I mentioned it, it's monument hobbies. :)
@soundgarden8885
@soundgarden8885 2 года назад
Awesome video Vince, much liked. where i live (Netherlands) i pay 2 euro for a 400ml rattlecan primer at our 'national' hobby store. Its branded Spectrum and hell, it just does the Job! There is no way im paying +/- 15 euro for GW or AP primer rattlecans with this cheap stuff just doing its job. It comes in matt black and matt white. Perfect for the zenithal stuff. Ofcourse you need to warm them up in a tub filled with warm water and then shake the living hell out of them but yeah. Voila... money saved i can get 7 cheap cans for the same price you pay for the mentioned expensive brands! 7!!! Just let that sink in.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
That's pretty crazy different, no such options here in the states.
@SilverSun216
@SilverSun216 2 года назад
You failed to mention my favorite primer... 1-to-1 black auto primer from a pour can and lacquer thinner in an airbrush. - Incredibly inexpensive. I've used the same $12.00 can for 10 years. - Extremely thin coverage. - Extremely good control. - Hard-as-a-rock durability. - Easily takes a sanding or file after painting (unlike Vallejo Surface Primer). Rattle can quality but with airbrush control. I get my zenithal with a quick second coat of Alclad II white primer... but I suspect white auto primer might work even better. SAFETY IS A MUST. Use an airbrush booth with vacuum ventilation, and wear a P100 respirator. But nothing beats auto primer. Nothing.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Very cool idea
@brib9716
@brib9716 2 года назад
That deck needs a little love, Vince :p
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Oh, you're not wrong, it needs torn down and replaced. :)
@OgreOnSprue
@OgreOnSprue 2 года назад
My take on brush on primer is that I don't have a good outdoor/ventilated place to use a rattle can. There are some other (minor) points but they aren't really substantial enough.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yes, as I said, if you have no other options, then there you go. :)
@Stormcaller3801
@Stormcaller3801 2 года назад
How do you feel about three step Zenithal priming? Going from a black from below, neutral grey at the mid 90º cone, and then white from above?
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
It’s fine, I used to do it, but it’s just often unnecessary, you can use thin white to build up and get natural greys.
@jamesljoyce2158
@jamesljoyce2158 10 месяцев назад
Huge fan of what you do Vince - I pretty much always check with your videos before I start something unfamiliar. I picked up a bunch of old metal miniatures recently. I may have missed it in this video - any adhesion victor in rattle can vs. airbrush primer for old Ral Partha type metal miniatures? Through the years I've pretty much just decided to deal with those little chips/flakes of paint letting metal shine through. I prewash minis and use Stynylrez. Any secrets? Thinking about trying a clear flat varnish coat over the primer to lock it in.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 10 месяцев назад
You're exactly right on, a few thin layers of varnish can help lock it in before painting.
@NapGod
@NapGod 2 года назад
I'm a big stynelrez fan and I've got a bottle of Vallejo as a backup or for terrain. I have seen Monument Hobbies' primer, and if gets an endorsement from Vince, then Im obliged to give it a try.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
It's really a solid choice.
@pukebucket5360
@pukebucket5360 9 месяцев назад
Great video. Do you think it is ok to mix Vallejo black primer and Vallejo metallic primer to make different darker shades of metallic? I have a ton of adeptus titanicus models I want to prime. i'd love to do the priming and basecoat steps in 1 step. Thanks Vince.
@jesperrahlff3541
@jesperrahlff3541 6 дней назад
This is a great intro! For the rattlecans, they have to contain paint and primer? I camt get avmway with just a colored spray paint?
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 4 дня назад
It could be just primer or just paint, it would still work on plastic.
@mcshannon02
@mcshannon02 3 месяца назад
I am just getting started. Do you have a guide for first air brush choices? I will be doing D&D minis.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 3 месяца назад
I do, I think you found it based on my response to your other comment. But if you have any questions or want specific recommnedations, I am happy to share. :)
@theplasticcommando7394
@theplasticcommando7394 2 года назад
I've always liked Tamiya rattle can spray, but it's hard to justify the cost when I can get so much more out of Rustoleum brand. No matter, try and put a couple of light coats of spray primer so not to mess up miniature detail.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yep, in the end, it's all the same stuff. :)
@JohnnyCoyote
@JohnnyCoyote 2 года назад
Any further pointers for painting with oil colors, or does the same priming advice apply?
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Same priming stuff. I good varnish coat can help (it's not necessary, but it makes life easier) over the primer/acrylic base.
@Bluecho4
@Bluecho4 2 года назад
There's probably one (1) situation to use brush-on primer, and it's if you build your own terrain, and you want to do it phenomenally cheaply. In that case, hardware stores will sometimes have primer designed for _walls_ that come in little test pots, and they sometimes make pots of them that end up not being used. So they'll wind up on a clearance shelf. I've gotten a couple of those pots for 50 cents each. Useless for minis, but if I want to apply a coat onto a big piece of scratch-built terrain, all I need is a brush. And doing it with a rattle can would probably be more expedient, albeit more costly and require me to go outside. On the other hand, I know that with a brush, it won't melt foam. Even though there are ways to avoid that if you're careful. (Obviously, don't ever do this with terrain that you bought. They tend to have details that might be obscured. But if it's terrain you built from garbage and dollar store foam board, it doesn't matter.)
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Nice tip. :)
@dragonfist
@dragonfist 2 года назад
awesome video as usual
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Thank you. :)
@starwardoutlaw
@starwardoutlaw 2 года назад
What would be the issue with just taking regular GW base paint, thinning it, and using it as a primer?
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
It’s not primer is the short answer. Primer is different than paint. It’s tougher as it has polyeurathane in the mix. It has a slightly tougher finish as well to provide tooth for the paint to grip.
@RedfoxDK
@RedfoxDK 2 года назад
When doing a zenithal, does the lighter tone need to be a primer or would normal paint be just fine?
@SparkSovereign
@SparkSovereign 2 года назад
It's going over a primer, so it can just be paint.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Primer, Paint, ink, it's fine. :)
@totomekia
@totomekia Год назад
Thanks a lot! this is very helpful
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella Год назад
Glad it was helpful!
@DeusMachina71
@DeusMachina71 2 года назад
I prime black and use white ink to zenithal and build up from there.. I find inks can have great coverage and applies much thinner thus not obscuring details. Again you need an airbrush for this though. I only rattle can when I'm doing terrain or large pieces that are heavy and need to be handled
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Nothing wrong with using inks, just make sure that you're in a low humidity environment so they don't reactivate or varnish, but nothing wrong with inks.
@johnhill6797
@johnhill6797 2 года назад
where did you picl up your measuring scoops for the powdered gold from. jphn hill.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Found the set on amazon in Cooking.
@Gregatron13
@Gregatron13 2 месяца назад
Do you have any vids on how to pick colors for layering? I watched either you or Ninjon use purple as a base for human skin and I think it broke my brain 😝
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 месяца назад
It's more of an experience thing, in general, you can layer through a lot of colors, as long as you're heeding color theory (which I do have videos on).
@iTxip
@iTxip 2 года назад
Super informative, just came back to the hobby and got an airbrush and was gonna try to do a black/white zenithal prime for some thousand sons. I was going to go the gold base coat (your vallejo gold/copper gsw pigment recipe), then fill the blue panels method. But if the zenithal lighting wont show after the gold basecoat, what do I do to make the underside gold darker than the overside gold? Maybe some light silver color like white aluminium mixed with the gold to airbrush from above? And some gunmetal mixed in to airbrush from below? Or brown wash airbrushed from below? Theres just so much stuff...
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
So I have a whole video on this - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-agRmMwuQI5A.html
@iTxip
@iTxip 2 года назад
@@VinceVenturella you are the man🤘
@TheGImp1214
@TheGImp1214 2 года назад
I love my airbrush primer but, i tend to rush and do armies at the last minute when I paint, and when I’m priming my whole army I have a lot of trouble after 15 models I find myself completely disassembling my airbrush every 10 models to get the primer out. I also have an issue when I use two drops of thinner I can only get 5-10 models out before it clogs. I’m using the basic compressor still with a mid end like $200 iawata air brush, i’m using vallejo surface primer
@patrik5600
@patrik5600 2 года назад
I've had the same problem and solved it by upping the pressure a bit! Like VV says in the video, I'd still clean it every 10-15 minutes or three cups of paint. But upping the pressure a bit really helped me with clogging issues for premade AB primers.
@Wijkert
@Wijkert 2 года назад
I used to have that issue. Upping the pressure helps a lot like Patrik said. Also I have moved to Molotow one4all paints as primers and recently was able to prime about 55 bases and 10 miniatures without even getting close to needing to clean it. Also no need to thin Molotow paints and they cover like crazy. I need like 2-3 drops per 28 mm fig compared to at least double the amount of Vallejo surface primer.
@TheGImp1214
@TheGImp1214 2 года назад
@@Wijkert what pressure do you recommend?
@Wijkert
@Wijkert 2 года назад
@@TheGImp1214 about 2.5 bar
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
So possibilities 1) Up the pressure, you can go up to 40 PSI when priming, that's fine. 2) Your bbrass nozzle has primer drying inside, you need the needle tool to clean that. 3) My standard thinner mix is 80/20 thinner flow improver. the mix I have foun that works the best to avoid james. 4) Put in a single drop of 99% isopropyl alcohol, it will generally stop that clogging.
@matthewwerner3656
@matthewwerner3656 2 года назад
Been struggling with Vallejo Surface Primer Black from day one of my airbrush. Consistently clogs after only a few minutes of spray time. I even use Vince's thinner to flow improver ratio for thinning the primer and still clogs. I use an Iwata HP-CS. Really not sure what my issue is, but man is it frustrating. Rant over, thanks for another great video, Vince and allowing me my brief venting session.
@Tabaskuh
@Tabaskuh 2 года назад
You have to get the consistency right, otherwise your airbrush will clog. If you mix it in the airbrush pod, try it in a different pod and pure it in, if consistency is correct.
@matthewwerner3656
@matthewwerner3656 2 года назад
@@Tabaskuh I do mix in the actual cup itself. I have tried going SUPER thin, but that leads to poor coverage and spiderwebbing. I typically spray between 20-30 psi. I will do what you suggest next and mix it up in a separate cup. Thanks!
@Tabaskuh
@Tabaskuh 2 года назад
​@@matthewwerner3656 You dont need to add much water/thinner. I had best results with the vallejo thinner. I use 22 psi with a 0.3 nozzle.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
So some thoughts, it could be a humidity thing, I don't see that sort of clogging, but it's always different for everyone. 1) You could try a 1:3 ratio of thinner to primer (i.e. the thinner ratio is 80/20 thinner/flow improver). 2) Make sure the brass nozzle is completely clean. If there is any dried paint in there from an early prime, it will cause that to happen as new primer sticks to the old dry primer. A needle tool can scrape it all clean. 3) a few drops of 99% isopropyl alcohol into the mix can really help prevent this happening.
@matthewwerner3656
@matthewwerner3656 2 года назад
@@VinceVenturella Thanks for taking the time to help me out, Vince. I actually use your thinner ratio for all of my airbrushing , so I'm thinking maybe my ratio of thinner to primer is off. I also suspect that I may be filling the cup with too much primer/thinner combo in the first place, allowing it to begin to dry in the cup/nozzle. My next prime I plan on doing in small quantities of primer in the cup combined with a shortened time frame. Going to give your IPA tip a try as well, need to track down that elusive 99%. Off topic, but have always been curious about this and never could find an answer. What should I use to clean my airbrush after spraying enamels through it? I've heard mineral spirits, but I am overly cautious about damaging internal components. Maybe a video topic could be the basics of using enamels through an airbrush. Thanks again for all you do for the hobby.
@sschoener
@sschoener 2 года назад
I usually always apply a zenithal prime so the miniature looks good at least once in its time of existence before I ruin it with my paintjob.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
It is a wonderful moment.
@bjoernschlabitz
@bjoernschlabitz 2 года назад
One tipp especially for airbrush beginners: don't waste your access paint/primer in the airbrush by cleaning it out. Use them for training instead. Take a blank paper and when ur done applying it on the fig, paint fine dots or write ur name or draw tic tac toes. Lay colors over each other. Spray rocks or plastic spoons or whatever. Lay it over metals an zenithals. U will learn so much more about ur airbrush, to control the trigger, what pressure to use and how ur colors behave and how they mix an layer and u can increase the time ur actually airbrush easily 3 or 4 times and it almost takes no extra time
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
It's a good tip.
@komma8203
@komma8203 2 года назад
Have you tried the 3gen primers from ak interactiv, that and the monument once are my favorites. And i just went to the autopart store and got a cheep spraygun for the bigger projects that a airbrush is to small for, works great just like a spraycan only with adjutable pressure and paint, it was like 30-40bucks for it
@patrik5600
@patrik5600 2 года назад
That's a good idea! Does that spraygun work with your standard compressor?
@kevinw.7299
@kevinw.7299 2 года назад
Yeah I'm also using AK 3rd Gen primer, it's fantastic. Like a non crap Vallejo
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Haven't tried the AK, but I will have to give it a go. :)
@komma8203
@komma8203 2 года назад
@@patrik5600 yes it does, Just buy the smallest, cheepest one and for our work it is just fine. Now i have a big compressor for my nailguns that i could use if i needed to, but i have not so far
@patrik5600
@patrik5600 2 года назад
@@komma8203 thanks for the tip! Great idea.
@tacticakat9495
@tacticakat9495 2 года назад
Not sure if this has been answered but would you zenithal with black/ivory if you were planning on using primarily contrast/speed paint/washes?
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
Yes, 1000%, that is the best case for them. :)
@Impossible_Emporium
@Impossible_Emporium 2 года назад
What's the best way to clean the paint off minis?
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
LA's totally awesome is a great paint stripper.
@Dan-10100
@Dan-10100 2 года назад
Do we need to wait 3 hours moving from black primer to white primer when using cans ? Thanks for the video
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
You want to let the first layer completely dry and cure yes.
@mattl_
@mattl_ 2 года назад
Can you link to the $80-ish air brush setup? I brush on because I have no where to use spray cans
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
www.amazon.com/Master-Airbrush-Multi-purpose-Dual-action-Compressor/dp/B001TO578Q/ref=sr_1_10?crid=3ISSFM41SNFB3&keywords=master+airbrush+starter+kit&qid=1636423804&qsid=135-9408242-3381825&sprefix=master+airbrush+starter%2Caps%2C258&sr=8-10&sres=B00BF0MW9G%2CB00GYHVDBS%2CB001ATALCW%2CB002P646DE%2CB00EKT30JK%2CB001TO578Q%2CB006FQCBZK%2CB009ZXNPUA%2CB009YOBLJM%2CB0017640RK%2CB001TO55PQ%2CB002KJDXHQ%2CB00G044Z42%2CB0017U7S6G%2CB009YNG21U%2CB001ASZJ8O%2CB00A039KWG%2CB006HJCP8S%2CB00HEVBP02%2CB00HEU9EUG
@progenitorx
@progenitorx 2 года назад
If I were painting something white or off white for most of the model, what color should I use for the dark zenithal? Yellow? I want the off white on model to be bright and just slightly dark in recesses but still get that help in picking out details when painting base coats.
@VinceVenturella
@VinceVenturella 2 года назад
So I woul think about something like a medium brown, then mostly light brown over that so there is almost no dark brown left. Then I would build up some off-whites with either brush or airbrush.
@progenitorx
@progenitorx 2 года назад
@@VinceVenturella Thanks!
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