Ultra Rare ZL1 and L88 Corvettes Started up at Roger's Corvette Center 

haaaaa😂

Yeah, that probably wasn't pee. lol

I Flew in from Pa. for this auction, I too was there.

@@stanleykeith6969 Sure...

I was at an auction there about a month prior to that. Saw the announcement for the ZL-1 being sold by the DEA. Wish I could've gone just to see the action on it.

Why was it a government auction?

@@V8_screw_electric_cars KSC had a fleet of cars and trucks that were auctioned off as they wore out. Vehicles (including boats) that the IRS seized or law enforcement confiscated from drug dealers etc. often found their way there as well. It's been a while but I seem to remember the ZL1 was the later. But don't quote me on that.

That brings back memories! I don’t know how many times I read that book but it was enough that it fell apart.

Heard 30 L-88 racing around Daytona but a ZL-1 in the group is an historic moment

Why would they think otherwise? It was all of what you say, and was still the fastest, until about 12 years ago. The ZL1 was the same engine in all aluminum trim, rather than just the aluminum heads......

@@milojanis4901 L88 and ZL1 used different camshafts. Similar timing, 0.540/0.560" lift for the L88 and 0.560"/0.600" lift for the Zl-1 Cam. The ZL-1 camshaft was Zyglo'ed, with zero indications permitted at the factory as well.

If you sold your wife for one of these you’d still not have buyers remorse.

@@hoghogwild The "heavy duty 427" (L88) used three different cams over the years. The earliest engines, which were only available through special order from racing teams, and apparently had iron heads, built in late '65 through late '66 used the 540/560 cam, which was still being used when the HD 427 became the L88 option (now with alum heads) in mid '67 and was used through mid '68. In mid '68 the 540/560 cam was replaced with a 550/580 cam (if I remember the specs right), which was used through mid '69, when the final cam, 560/600, was used in both the L88 and ZL1 engines, and that cam was also available through dealer parts and installed in the L88 and ZL1 crate engines well into the '70s. Early "L88"s with the first cam dyno test around 540hp, the '68 cam dynos around 550hp, and the '69 cam dynos around 560. I've also heard of results up to 580hp, but I assume those had some head work done as well. The factory only did 3 angle valve jobs, even on these high performance heads, so most engine builders will do a 5 angle or even a 7 angle valve job, plus a little bit of porting, not to make the ports larger, but just to clean up the castings and polish the exhaust ports. There are also some claims of only 480hp, but my research showed that number came from a "net" test with stock cast iron manifolds, belt driven water pump and alternator, and they even had the smog pump installed... so 480 net hp, not bad at all. LOL

it went for 300K... not one mil...

@@mikatamminen2786 I was there when he wrote the check out for ONE Million. I saw the check.

Roger Judski's 1969 ZL1 Corvette, one of two made.

@@stanleykeith6969 actually real RPO ones 2 but test mules 2 others...the Zora personal Racer and the Orange Coupé drag car. Well known facts...

@@stanleykeith6969 BS... www.corvettereport.com/roger-judski-buys-one-of-two-official-1969-zl-1-corvettes/

Has anyone seen actual GM/Chevrolet documentation showing the 94 ZL1 engines and the breakdown of manual vs auto? Is there a copy floating around somewhere? I'd love to see this. Does anyone have detailed photos of the yellow ZL-1 (trim tags, engine details, etc)?

Tonowanda built 154 1969 ZL-1 engines(Camaro/Corvette-service engines) and 549 1967-69 L-88's for all MY combined. 1969 L-88=$1032.15 Sport Coupe=$4781.00, Convertible=$4438.00. Of the 116 1969 L-88s 17 were optioned with RPO M40 THM-400 3 speed auto trans($221.80 option), leaving 99 with the 4 speed manual.

@@hoghogwild Did the 69 1969 Camaro ZL-1s use any of these engines, or was that a different batch?

@@culcune Yes, the ZL-1's regardless of application (Regular Production Order=RPO for ZL-1 Vette, Central Office Production Order=COPO for ZL-1 Camaro and the Service Engines(ZL-1 crate engines). Since the ZL-1 was hand assembled in an air-conditioned/clean-room assembly facility with 4-5 employees taking 16 hours per engine, in an air-conditioned/clean-room assembly facility, the ZL-1 was a hugely expensive engine to manufacture. As such, its super low rate production targets were far removed from the high rate type of production that was seen for the more common Camaro variants. ZL-1 production was ramped up, its production targets were realized, then ZL-1 production was ramped down/ceased and the assets of the program absorbed by other projects. Since the ZL-1 was only available, in a car, for MY1969 in the RPO Vettes(2 built) or using the more complicated COPO ordering system, which the 69 1969 ZL-1 Camaros were made available(to racers), if the engine is a ZL-1, it was built at the same facility, in the same time period as any other ZL-1 engine. Every ZL-1 that came off that line was broken in for an hour, then was pulled and the results were between 500-535hp which Chevrolet gave a 430hp "rating", which was 100% accurate. The 1969 ZL-1 427 did in fact only make 430hp, it just made 430hp at 5200rpm, which was about 1000rpm less, than the power peak at which the ZL-1 did make its full horsepower, at 6200-6400 rpm running Sunoco 260 fuel. Headers/open exhaust The ZL-1 Camaros came equipped with the log manifolds(Vettes manifolds were much better) and wimpy stock exhaust that cut the ZL-1s power almost exactly in half. That rip snorting 500-535hp became a wheezy 275hp when forced to breath through a straw. Chevrolet knew that the racers would simply rip off the manifolds and exhaust and install the headers that Chev dealerships would find in the cars, uninstalled. Some nice dealers would make these headers a "dealer installed option".

Hi Steve since you got so much data on Zl-1's maybe you could find out how many 70 LT-1's came with a 4.56 rear! my first vette had an M-22 and a 4.56 but no other option it was a canadian built LT-1 THANKS STEVE

You can also tell it's a 68' and not a 69', because the 68' has a push button on the door to open it, and the 69' didn't.

My friend that had the 68' L-88, either ran AVGAS mixed with Sunoco 260 , or just straight Sunoco 280.

@@kevinanderson6926 That's right, quite a few things are different. I like the 68s because they are unique. Interior grab handle, ignition is on dash instead of the steering column, smaller centre in steering wheel, lower seats without headrest and I think even the front fender flares are slightly different to 69 and onwards.

103 research octane or 95 motor octane so in the US that means 99. Sunoco 260 was about 97.5 octane so good enough for most everything else but not the L88.

There were apparently plans for just that... but of course they were scrapped along with the LS7. They were going to call it the "LT2", an all aluminum 454 with 12.5 to 1 compression, big cam, cowl induction, etc... that the L88s and ZL1s had. Supposedly, a prototype was given to Motor Trend Magazine for testing, but some sources say that was an LS7 prototype (iron block, alum heads, 11.0 to 1 compression)... but it's all lost to history now.

I've got a Corvette Black Book circa 1981 and it shows 1967 RPO L88 with 20 built.

I know the son of the guy who bought the last 1968 L-88 Corvette. The guy's wife sold it while he was out on the road, and when he returned to find it gone he divorced her. She sold for around $2,000 IIRC. Some big time Corvette collector in Texas bought years later.

How is he doing today?

@@oe542I would have to imagine he's not a lot healthier than when he died. :)

Believe L88 automatics (69 only) did use a small shroud.

There always is with these super rares

Build a 'tribute' car and run the heck out of it. Way too valuable--not only monetary, but historically valuable.

Modern tires... Why? Those are modern reproductions that are on it anyway, so I say, LIGHT 'EM UP!

They would have if more people ordered them. The ZL1 Corvette was an RPO(Regular Production Option). In 1969 the base Corvettes cost Sport Coupe=$4781.00, Convertible=$4438.00. The 1969 L-88=$1032.15 on top of that, plus the mandatory options required to even check off the L88 box. Consider that the ZL-1 engine alone cost over $4000 on its own, plus the mandatory options, you can see why people weren't lining up to buy these cars.

@@hoghogwild I believe that the ZL1 package actually included the mandatory options in the price, which is partly why it was such an expensive package. If it was just the engine alone it would have had an "LXX" code. The "ZXX" code indicates that it's a package option with other options included. I think the reason they did that is to discourage the average idiot from buying it, wrecking it and suing GM... same reason they only rated it and the L88 at 430hp.

​@@livewire2759 OK sure, but the engine portion of whatever package code cost over $4000 on its own and the rest of the package was more. The breakdowns show every single part number The package was worth more than a base Vette. A ZL-1 Vette cost almost $11,000. For performance, headers and open exhaust are always assumed. Yes it was an expensive option. It was hand assembled by 2 engineers over 16 hours in an air conditioned room and carted down to the dyno for break in and testing. They never had a ZL-1 under 500hp and many 510-520hp of the just under 100 ZL-1 engines built.

@@hoghogwild The Yellow ZL1 cost $11,000 because it was a special order by the plant manager who built it with all the bells and whistles... including the radio and heater options which the ZL1s were not supposed to have. Sure, they listed the part numbers of the various mandatory options, but again, I think that "over 4,000" price tag included the price of the HD brakes, HD susp., etc... not that those were added on top of that 4,000. Also, the L88s were hand built as well, with the same amount of care, yet that option only added a few hundred dollars because the other mandatory options weren't included in the price of it. The ZL1 was really just the addition of the aluminum block, which was very expensive, but not 4 grand by itself, so it must have included the price of the other mandatory options. Now, I'm not an expert, and I certainly wasn't around at the time to verify all of this, so I'll admit I could be wrong, but logically, it just doesn't make sense to me that they would charge over 4 grand for the addition of an aluminum block.

114 is available today, a better fuel.

They only needed 99 octane according to Chevrolet.

Plenty videos out there of an L88 running by itself.

I don’t think there were any “Surplus” ZL-1 engines....they were all special ordered through the COPO program. 69 Camaro’s and 2 corvettes of which only one exists. 🙂

There’s no surplus.

The Camaro's were all built before this Corvette was... They built around 80 of these engines for factory installations (and probably double that for over the counter sales). One or two test mule Corvettes were built, one ordered Corvette was built, then all 69 of the Camaros, and finally this last Corvette featured here. The remaining 10 or so engines were stored in a GM warehouse for decades and only recently rediscovered. To my knowledge, they were sold to collectors who have used a few to restore some of the Camaro's who's original engines were lost.

So why do you assume its the orange car in question? Maybe it's the white car that's not real as it seems there is zero factory documentation with that car, only a letter from a previous owner.

People speak so definitively on production numbers when back then the factory did all kinds of things, exactly how are you going to "verify" anything?

Daytona Yellow...

I like yellow on Corvettes... but yeah, Tuxedo black, Can-Am white, Cortez silver or my personal favorite, Fathom green, would have been better. (I also like Monaco Orange, introduced that year)

Want a be, only Zora Duntov knew the true history of these high performance engines

The White one is supposedly owned by a collector in California.

Big cam + high compression + no choke = rough idle

What like a pussy cat that only gos 11.40 ...