How on earth did the referee miss these fouls...? Shane Van Boening SVB Jayson Shaw Earl Strickland Mario He Uncalled Fouls & Bad Sportsmanship | Pool #pool #9ball #foul
I read on the rules when I was talking trash, that if there's a small gap, as long as your stick is above 45 degrees, you're allowed to shoot towards it without a push foul being called.. seems kinda funny to me.
that said he should have felt it giving his other senses are in a magnitude state. hes done this stuff his whole career. we called him on it in a tournament in tunica. when theres real money on the line that bs doesnt stand.
I'd argue he even hit it. to me it looks like he had side on the white and it bends just at the same time he lifted the cue above it, which made it look like it struck the cue
Some notes for the people in the comments: 1. You can shoot through the cue ball and object ball if they are frozen. The balls must be declared to be frozen prior to the shot to take advantage of this rule. If you don't declare them frozen, even if they are frozen, any applicable double hit or push fouls apply. 2. If the cue ball and object ball are very close to each other, but not frozen, the cue ball chasing after the object ball even a tiny amount is a very good indicator that a double hit took place. 3. The few exceptions are if you apply enough top spin to get the cue ball moving after stopping in that tiny space, cross face english where the cue ball is deflected sideways before going forward, and jumping the cue ball so it glances off the top of the object ball. The movement of these types of shots is very distinct from a double hit, so it is usually easy to tell the difference. 4. 45 degrees makes no difference in the wpa rules. Some shitty league rules or whatever may say otherwise, but they are not the official rules. 5. A push foul is a completely different type of foul from a double hit. It consists of prolonging the tip contact on the cue ball and is pretty rare. I don't think any of the shots here would qualify as push fouls. 6. Old timers used different rules regarding double hits. Modern rules regarding them have only been in place since the 90's or so.
The 45° rule applies to derby coty classic. I’m their rules it is perfectly legal to double hit/push as long as you elevate your cue 45°. Otherwise everything you said is spot on
@@lntrlp4936 That's a double hit. Dr. Dave had a good video explaining the difference. It's called everything you need to know about fouls or something like that.
@@LostinYTblackhole in upa, the 45 degree rule is so that the shot isnt *automatically* ruled a push/double cue. certainly if you double cue/push despite raising your cue 45 degrees it's still a foul.
If the balls are touching, they become one object, therefor a push is not a double hit. however if there is any space between the two, it is a foul. so it makes it difficult to call some of these if we dont know if theyre frozen
Holy shit Shaw was fucking furious. Then Strickland goes around acting like a damn toddler slamming his cue on the ground just to get his way.. if someone gets that upset maybe think hmmm it was possible that I could have messed up but nah Strickland doing Strickland things.
Not unusual for the strickland scrub to be throwing a tantrum like always, he just a spoilt brat with nothing but average pool play, he tried tp piss off some of the greats like Steve Davis (proven 8 time world champion in snooker), that kind of disrespect only deserves to be throw nout in the garbage, really should just ban this guy from all competition in ANY sport or game
@@Frusciante1221 you know nothing about me, yet you assume I know nothing about pool, I didnt deny him that he can play, but its really only average, comparing him to the likes of Efren Reyes, Steve Davis, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Neil Robbertson ... should I list more that Strickland doesnt have a hope against?
You are calling things push shot fouls that are not. It is perfectly legal to hit into balls frozen together, so long as there isn't prolonged contact or a double hit with the cue.
I play in local tournaments and occasionally see someone foul but I wait for them to call it. If they don't, I know I'm playing against a cheater. I let it slide because I play for fun, not money or glory and, at 82, I don't need to get into a fight. I found the same thing with golf, sailboat racing and even cards. Most people do the right thing in sports but not all do.
I have to admit some of the push shots you called are quite questionable. when the balls are touching the line between foul and leagl shot becomes thin. Like Shane's shot on 2:15.. I looked ok to me.
@@seda12I think you're talking about the wrong kind of push shot. The push shot they're talking about it is when you extend the time of contact onto the cue ball with the tip of your cue, you're literally pushing the cue ball with your cue. The push shot you're referring to is when you are given the opportunity to push out after the break on 9 ball or 10 ball. Two very different things
Ya know, if cue ball is frozen to object ball, you're allowed to stroke through it with a normal stroke. Most ppl don't know this, in official WPA rules.
7.9 Double Hit If the cue tip strikes the cue ball twice on the same stroke, it is a ball in hand foul. In order to avoid a double hit, the cue ball must be struck at a minimum of a 45° angle whenever in contact with or riskily close (1/2 inch or closer) to the intended object ball.
@@strikermurda No, most weren't. If you ever have seen Dr. Dave Billiards slow mo shots of these exact ones you would see. Yes, some were because the cue wasn't elevated enough and they allowed for some angle when it wasn't needed.
@@cosmicraysshotsintothelight if it was a double touch then the ball wouldn’t have stayed on the line lol, you’re arguing “my eyes are seeing it!” vs basic physics lmao
First shot. Where was the "obvious double contact"?? You put the arrow at the intended pocket, instead of putting the arrow where the supposed double contact was.
Look at the space between the cue ball and the two balls next to it, if he pushes through anymore than that distance he will 100% make double contact, hence why the cue ball jumps, goes forward, then draws back.
I remember watching that Bustamante's shot live on ESPN back in the day, gotta be the biggest controversy in televised pool ever. He even went on to have a private chat with the organizer after this situation (since PH hosted the WPC that year). However, I still think it's possible that the white hit two balls at the same time. Anyhow, Peach went on to win the cup lol.
@Nomma Rillnaim it wouldn't have been a foul either, because pocketing uncalled balls it's not a foul, just loss of turn. However I agree that he obviously meant the 10, so he didn't want to take advantage in fraudolent way
With some of the elevated shots, even if you play the white without an object ball anywhere near it, the cue ball first goes forward and then comes back, without a push happening. I dont think shane's 2nd shot was a push
WRONG. HERE IS THE RULE: IF THE CUEBALL AND THE OBJECT BALL ARE NOT TOUCHING, THEN THE CUEBALL, CANNOT INVADE THE SPACE WHERE THE OBJECT BALL IS LYING, WHILE THE CUE IS STILL TOUCHING THE CUE-BALL. IF THE CUE-BALL AND OBJECT BALL ARE TOUCHING, YOU CAN PUSH RIGHT ON THROUGH, AS LONG AS THE OBJECT BALL DOESNT CONTRACT ANOTHER BALL, OR, THE CUEBALL CONTACTS ANOTHER BALL WHILE "PUSHING THROUGH". Take it to the bank. I been playing pool for 31 years and have played at a professional level.
He already replied to you but I still thought I should clear it up. If the balls are frozen together, it is 100% legal to hit into them in all rules and regulations excluding APA & EPA. Also youre mixing the definition of push and double hit. Push fouls are incredibly rare, so rare I’ve never seen or heard of one from professionals. That’s when you use an irregular stroke and make contact. For example that would be if I lined my shot up and then touched my cue tip on the ball then pushed forward. Push shots, are not actual shots, they are pushes. So anytime someone strikes at a ball it can’t be a push. Double hit occurs when there is any gap in between the cue ball and object ball. If there is any gap no matter how small it will result in a double hit
In the Earl vs. Shaw game, Earl called the 10-ball at the corner pocket, he even pointed at it right before the shot. Shaw tried to say Earl called the 2-ball. Ten, two, ten, two I think he heard him wrong.
You're clearly not taking into account that the rules have changed multiple times during the time span you're covering in your excerpts. Back in the era of the Irving Crane versus Luther Lassiter match, for example, the modern definition of "push shot" simply did not apply, in particular not for frozen balls (which have been considered an exception to the rule in countless reiterations of the rule set). The next shot by Jimmy Caras is the only type that might have been considered debatable back in the era, and you'll notice it apparently wasn't, as Caras wouldn't even bother elevating, nor did the referee bother calling anything whatsoever. The next shot, by Roger Griffis, would in fact have been considered a foul in its era because he can be seen not to elevate 45 degrees, but then, all AccuStat Invitational events used their own rule sets, and Scott Smith, the tournament director wasn't one to overlook a foul if indeed it was considered one by the rules played that day. In Joshua Filler's shot at 6:25 minutes into the video, the cue ball can be seen to deflect sideways along the tangent line before the follow takes, so there you have your answer, all about physics. During the Shane Van Boening shot right after, commentator Danny DiLiberto is giving the relevant rules explanation, so again, the question would appear answered, except I don't believe Shane would have elevated if the balls had been frozen, as the shot would be easier to make without elevation if they were.
In most or all of the push shot clips it’s unclear if the cue ball and object ball were touching. Whenever the cue ball and object ball are touching there is no foul because it’s physically impossible for a “push” shot to not occur.
I get that Earl is up there in the best players our sport has seen but it’s rly hard to respect him when he smashes his cue against stuff and things like that. Seen too many clips of that. It’s just immature.
Thats only if there is a push rule. If a ball is frozen to cue ball technically every shot where you would make contact would be a push shot. As long as you are jacked up past a certain angle it is legal.
I don’t know how someone think that it is not a foul when the cue is in an angle of 45 degrees. The official WPA clearly says: A double hit is avoided when the stroking-line (extended to the table) of the cue doesn’t not go through the objectball. All other “rules” are not the official.
@@strikermurda its true tho cause the only legal jumpshot is with an 45° angle on the cue a "scoop jumpshot" is not allowed because thats always a double hit on the cue ball
I personally call my own fouls... In the words of Willie Masconi, "Pool is a game of royalty." I hold myself to that level of sportsmanship. Pool and golf are two of the only sports that I know of that you can call your own fouls or penalties during high level competition. It's unfortunate that more people don't hold themselves to that standard. After checking the rules, they state that a pool player isn't required to call his or her own penalties, yet watching professionals not ending their turn when they know deep down inside they made a mistake is disappointing.
That Earl one, it really does sound like he might of mumbled ten ball but was misheard. "ten" and "two" both start with 't', so I'm still not so sure about that one. I mean why would he point to the pocket and shoot at the obvious ball to go there if he meant the two. I think the honor goes both ways on Shaw to concede the shot when it really was obvious, but I can see why both sides were upset.
If you listen to Earl the second time he slams the butt of his cue into the ground he says “how did I ****ing do that” basically admitting he messed up.
@@cuesportclips11 Assuming he knew he made the mistake (as both are blue colored), it was impossible for the 2-ball to go to that pocket, thus making it an obvious shot. There is not a tournament (I would play in) where the opponent would call that out on him. Since it was obvious, it's probably why it was called to the shooter. But, I don't have a problem with Shaw being upset either.
@@cuesportclips11 it was just a miscall. It was impossible to pocket the 2, he obviously wanted to pocket the 10. As a opponent if I understand the intentions of a player I have no problem to give this shot good. At the end of the day the purpose of calling shots is to clarify your intentions, but if your intentions are obvious for me it's enough.
@@AngrierGorilla mis call? you loose your turn ,its call shot call ball and pocket if you dont do that right then you didnt call your shot ,nothing to argue about
The Strickland-Shaw match, I believe the audio clearly has Earl calling the 2, even though he shot the 10. It's a foul, ref called it immediately, and then reversed it after Earl bitched. Shaw was completely in the right to be upset, the rules should've been followed. It's the only thing to do at that point, follow the rules. Although, I never realized he pointed at the pocket with his cue. Interesting. If everyone heard 2, then rules shoulda been followed in my opinion, Earl's mistake.
he clearly intended the 10, it was just a miscall. There wasn't any bad intentions from him, I think Shaw perfectly knew he intended to pocket the 10. However when you pocket uncalled balls (or in the wrong pocket) it's not a foul, it's just loss of turn.
Earl's intent was CLEARLY on the 10 ball, but he mis-spoke. Technically, he pocketed the wrong ball, leading to loss of turn. But I think Jason was being a jerk for calling it out. He knew Earl's intent. This is POOL; not a game of "mother, may I."
The foul on the jacked up shot in the Filler/Blyler match was absolutely a good hit. The cue ball goes slightly forward then draws backward. THERE IS NO WAY the backspin could work unless the object ball goes slight forward after the cue ball is struck and slows down enough so that the cue ball could hit it again.
Almost all the alleged push shots were legal hits. Joseph Blyer's, Shane Van Boening's, and Josh Filler's were all good hits. In pocket billiards rules, if you elevate your cue past 45 degrees in attempt to avoid a double hit, then a foul cannot be called. Furthermore, when hitting down on the cue ball like that, it will go forward first because it hops ever so slightly before the backspin takes. In the older clip where the guy pushed through, the balls were frozen. You can tell they were frozen because he didnt hit the cue ball very hard and it followed the object ball naturally... if there had bee a gap and double hit, the cue ball would bave reacted slightly differently. Also, the clip where Shane used the bridge... also not a foul. You can see in slow motion his cue never touched the cue ball. The ball bent to the viewer's right because it had top spin and the spin took after the slide on the new felt... a standard cue ball path, honestly. Some of the other shots weren't fouls, either but I really don't want to have to explain all of them. This is simply about knowing the rules and physics.
@@cuesportclips11 - You generally disagree with a lot of people on your channel, particularly when most people are in agreement about something... maybe it's your thing? At any rate, everything I said was correct, factually speaking per the WPA and Matchroom official rulebook that professional pool players and regerees follow. So just because you say it's wrong pretty much means nothing to anyone with pool knowledge. I would love for you to tell SVB he's wrong and then watch him laugh at you. Also.. pretty insensitive you wrote on the one clip (when he uses the bridge) that he should be able to "hear" it, considering he's deaf and plays with his hearing aids off. What is the matter with you?
I didn’t say hear, I said, see, hear or feel, if he can’t hear, then he should be able to see it, if he can’t see it, he 1000% felt it, thanks for leaving that out though bud.
What pocket billard rules are you talking about?(edited after my stroke) These for the vast majority are WPA rules, where all these shots are illegal. The 45° only applies to derby city classic where you are allowed to double hit as long as you elevate cue to 45°. And imma be honest I stopped reading halfway through your comment because the first half was so stupid😂
Some of these they probably didn't notice. Fouls, but not bad sportsmanship. Also, in the very old videos, those push shots were not illegal. You were allowed to double contact the cue ball as long as you made only one stroke.
Not true. A double hit push has been illegal since the late 1800s. You must be crazy. It simply did not get noticed then because thaey did not have high resolution video to examine the shot with and refs were less knowledgeable about that particular rule. A shooter was NEVER "allowed to double contact" "one stroke" or not.
It’s both their faults but more on the shooter because sometimes the player sitting down can’t see certain shots and they don’t wanna move while a player is shooting.
the fact that the cueball doesn't travel on the stun line and goes forwards should be enough to know if its a push shot or not. Dont know where these referees come from.
@@cuesportclips11 3.23FOULS BY DOUBLE HITS If the cue ball is touching the required object ball prior to the shot, the player may shoot toward it, providing that any normal stroke is employed.
@@cuesportclips11 - Well….you’re disagreeing with the official BCA rule book….because that’s where I copied/pasted from. So you can disagree as to whether or not it should be the rule. But it IS the rule.
You call foul on everything right I believe it's your opinion not necessarily the rules of the table that each incident have are a little different they may call cue ball foul only not necessarily all ball foul double hits/push shots are not always called depending on rules of the table at the time a lot will say if you elevate 45° or more not considered a foul and I doubt back in the day they had the understanding of the push or double hits and this is just my opinion anyway 😉
Lol the person who made this video clearly doesn’t know what push shot is. Push shot is only called when 2 balls have gap in between. In some of these cases they are frozen and even plowing thru it is still a legal shot. Josh Filler shot was clearly NOT a foul at all.Please relearn the rule before posting videos.
the second one is not a foul at all he jacked up made contact with the top of the ball. i dont think in a million years that would nor should ever be called unless the cue ball comes back and hits the stick for a little round two
sorry man I think the first shot was clean maybe double contact on the 8? because it seemed to be travelling tangelt line of the 12 but then again it seemed to hit the 8 second and double hit on the 8
not necessarily clear, especially without slow mo replay. usually the objective is to avoid double hitting first ball, opponent and shooter might not even be thinking about double hitting a second ball
5:24 I think I saw a video on internet from other angle, and 8 is moved, obviously, but there was no contact with flying ball. Maybe it's because of him hitting the surface so hard?
Some of these are close to not being fouls, or a bit debatable. But some are obvious and it is stunning they were allowed. I have no doubt some of the guys that committed fouls knew they were fouls and said nothing - which is bad sportsmanship. There is no possible way Strickland didn't know he hit the nine ball when jumping. It was right in front of him and so obvious.
No, she hit a rail first so then the cue ball or another ball must hit a rail after. Clear foul, the announcers jumped on it and loree jon has been playing for decades she should of instantly recognized it.
If Im not sure that I double hit a ball and they don’t call a foul I usually don’t call it on myself. But if they call a foul I will always trust them and give them ball in hand.
Second one is hard to call foul. Physically, it was a push-through yes. But the trick is to jack up the butt end of the cue on that type of shot and it's considered a good shot. This is by convention. In tournaments or money game.
