As someone who reviews and sells All of these Brands I appreciate this video! I will send this to GD Alliance and Brinkley so they can ALL Improve! Thank you for the video!
I think the manufacturers already know how they designed their product and make a cost decision to hit a price point. If they don't know about the plumbing tradeoffs why are they building RVs?
👏 I'd make note that Brinkley has already responded and clarified that the product they are using is different than the rest of the industry. It's approved for this application and has had zero issues with it within the first year of production. Bravo to Brinkley for taking the time to go outside the industry to find products designed and engineered for their application and not using whatever is cheapest.
@@RV_Reviews LMAO "not using whats cheapest" As their entire camper is filled with all the cheapest (furrion junk) on the market. also it's different, that doesn't mean it approved by anybody other then them. Zero failures in their whole 10 months of existence?
Brinkley's response - Adjusted "Rigor" score should now be 97 for both models My wife and I are planning to purchase a 5th wheel in the not-too-distant future. Brinkley “Z” models have been at the top of our list. This video gave me pause. It is a very helpful video and the detailed, knowledgeable information is much appreciated. However, as a prospective buyer of a Brinkley, I wanted to get a response directly from Brinkley rather than secondhand. The following are the 4 items noted as negative grades per the “Rigor scale” against Brinkley: - Minus 10 points due to the flex plumbing hose connecting to brass fittings; - Minus 2 points for the Furrion water heater sensor issue; - Minus 1 for “fit and finish” lumber core use - Minus 2 for Furrion vs. Norcold refrigerator - = Minus 15 points I did not bother to ask Brinkley about the use of lumber core, as that is a small issue and they have done a great job protecting and covering the core pieces in my personal opinion. Brinkley’s responses to the other 3 items: Add back 10 points: Flex plumbing hose connecting to brass fittings: - Brinkley’s response and actual production line changes: “We have had zero issues with our plumbing connections in the field (over 1,600 units registered) or through our prototyping and testing. Everything we have done has been approved by our suppliers for the application they are used. We use PEX water lines wherever possible and brass plumbing connections throughout the entire unit. In a few specific locations, we are using an upgraded no kink flex tube that no one in the industry has previously used. It has a semi rigid inner lining with the flex mesh exterior. The quality of the hose is a HUGE factor in leading to problems that have been an issue with other manufacturers. It is recommended by the manufacturer of our water pump to use a flex tube coming off of the water pump to reduce vibration and noise. In most units in the field, we have used a ribbed brass PEX fitting with the no kink flex hose and an oetiker clamp coming off of the water pump and under the sink on the Model Z 2900. Using a brass fitting (as opposed to plastic) allows to ensure the clamp is tight and the fitting itself will not have “flex” making it much less likely for a leak to develop. Although we have had no issues with our connections, for customer peace of mind, we have eliminated all factory installed connections on flex supply lines. We have gone to a riser fitting hydraulicly preinstalled from the supplier on the water lines running to the water pump and below the sink in the 2900. Again, we have had no issue with the connection we are using and stand behind our product, but we are always looking for ways to improve and added peace of mind. Add back 2 points: Furrion water heater sensor issue: - Brinkley’s response: “The issue he brought up with the Furrion water heater sensor was a concern in the first generation Furrion tankless water heaters but was resolved about two years ago. Every Furrion tankless water heater we have used has been the second-generation version and this is a non-issue. No points regained. Furrion vs. Norcold refrigerator - Brinkley’s response: “The refrigerator we elected to use the Furrion 16 cubic foot 12V refrigerator based on its size and reliability. The Norcold refrigerator he mentions is a completely different size unit and would not be an option in our Model Z line. I do not know what criteria he used to determine one being superior to the other as he gives no data or rationale to his rating. Final general quote from Brinkley: “Know that we stand behind our product 100% and will take care of any issue that may arise (with this or anything else that we may have fallen short on). Our goal is to build the best RV on the market and something that will last for years to come.” I hope this info helps folks who may have been turned off to Brinkley after watching the video. It would be great to have the video updated with the corrected scores.
Concur. I brought this up to Brinkley and as you said, they are fully aware. The person I spoke to said one of the fittings may look like a compression but was actually a barbed fitting and another they had changed. They indicated they tried to contact @undercoverrvtech but were told he won't talk with dealers to remain unbiased. I respect that but am also wondering how/when any corrections they are making will be verified and taken into account? I assume the next time he checks a Brinkley that was recently produced?
I would like for him to go back to the current year of the same models he inspected to recheck for the changes and publish an updated video comparison. That, I believe, is due to the manufacturer and to the customer!
Chandler Tenney, the sales director in Brinkley in one of the YT videos pointed out that the reason they put brass joints in their plumbing is because the issue they have seen in the warranty repairs. So I would not say that Brinkley was free of all the plumbing leaks. But I like that they take the initiative of addressing the issues and making sure that it doesn’t happen again. They definitely have the potential to reach the 💯 score
It's not that we're looking for perfection,but getting these things serviced is close to impossible. Unless you live next to a certified rv repair that will repair your rv or any other , under warranty. Our son purchased a 2023 Integra and had a list of 26 items to check and repair after he took it home. That's an $800k coach...We picked it up a week later and they repaired 5 items and were waiting for authorization from their manufacturers to ok repairs. The rear drive axle caster adjust bolt was loose and moved and clunked when accelerating and stopping. Quality control is horrible in this field no matter the manufacturer. 30 yr Master tech retired here debating which 5th wheel to spend my hard earned retirement money on is like gambling. 🫤
I sure hope they take this video to heart. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Brinkley because I think they came up with a near perfect product. Then I saw this video and I'm thinking twice about my choice. Brinkley! If you're reading this, please give it serious consideration. I'll be checking for it when I attend the Tampa RV show in January.
The manufacturing methods at Brinkley are really amazing; just took the factory tour and I was very impressed. I am definitely not an expert on PEX plumbing fixtures, or whether Furrion is any better or worse than a Norcold fridge. I’ve never even owned an RV, although I’ve owned many large sailboats over the years. But after working as a Manufacturing / Mechanical Engineer in automotive manufacturing plants around the world for over 20 years, I can tell when a company is building a car / truck / RV the right way. There’s no question in my mind that Brinkley knows how to design and build a quality machine. Every workstation in the Brinkley facility is set up the same way Porsche or Ferrari would do it, they really have fantastic manufacturing and assembly practices. This is why the fit and finish of their RV’s is as good as it is. You can see the intermediate Quality Control steps they are taking within the manufacture process, not just at the final inspection, and this method insures quality builds. I could see that the fabrication and installation employees on the line were using methods and tooling to produce templated parts to very exact specifications, they weren’t just stamping out templated parts and tossing them in a bin for installation later on. Everything in the plant is super organized, they keep track of every part they install so that if a customer has a problem a year later, they can find how the part was fabricated based on the VIN of the unit, help you troubleshoot yours, and Make Improvements for future units; this concept is referred to as Metrics. Just my guess, but that may be unheard of in the RV industry. 16:50 Talking to the plant people about the supply chain they are using, they really are talking the talk, and walking the walk, about producing a quality product. I now work part time in management for a nationwide RV dealership that’s carries many different brands (Alliance, GD, Brinkley, many others as well), and I speak with our own RV repair technicians all the time about which brand is best. Every mechanic, bar none, says, well we love working on the Brinkleys, they’re just better built. I’m not personally purchasing anything until 2025, but from what I’ve seen and heard in the factory and in the repair bays, I may just go with a 3110 for my needs. Cheers y’all.
Jacob tells it like it is! An excellent expose, that shows the soft underbelly of the RV industry. Cost is king, shove them out the door as fast as you can, for whatever you can get, and caveat emptor. If you've tried to get RV service and repairs lately, let me tell you it's like the plumber in "The Money Pit" movie, who shows up in a Cadillac, and laughs at you. I don't understand how they stay in business. At least Brinkley appears to have a lot better build quality. Maybe we need Jacob to start a "Consumer Reports" type channel for RVs. Things will only get better if the consumer demands changes.
We greatly appreciate your objective evaluation of our product. One of our core values is to continuously strive for relentless improvement. If you ever find yourself in the Elkhart area, we would like to extend an invitation for a campus and factory tour.
Do you concur that the slide mechanism is a Accu-slide? When I asked the dealer today about the unit we're considering purchasing, they stated it has an Exact-Slide mechanism. Does it vary by unit or model?
Ok I have a used Valor 2021.My experience with Alliance has been no warranty, no service. Four to six month wait for service doesn't work. We are looking elsewhere for our next rig.
For what it's worth, I'd pay extra for solid surface counter tops. I've had issues with counter tops melting and warping due to a failed seal before and it sucks.
@alliancerv Even the tech is showing to everybody that your slide mechanism in the avenue is garbage you just decide to installed the same on the paradigms for 2024, I though your goal is the customer satisfaction.
@@scottl303 We just bought a 2024 (built in 11-23 according to the sticker) Alliance Paradigm 310RL. Our bedroom slide is an Exact-Slide, not an Accu-Slide. Rigor RV put out a video saying that the Exact-Slide avoids the problems of the Accu-Slide. Yay!
I really wish they'd extend lemon laws to the RV market. They aren't just protections for consumers but would also establish guidelines that RV manufacturers would have to live up to.
Love the video! This is what the RV industry needs: accountability. My wife and I have a 2021 Rockwood Signature 8324SB that we purchased from a private buyer. I had a professional RV tech review and inspect before purchase. We love this RV. We have had very few issues and have owned it now for about a year and put over 10,000 miles and 2 months of nights in it. I have also been very impressed with Rockwood's support. Even though I was not the original owner, they treated me very well when I asked questions. They have gone so far as to provide me with the drawings and schematics for wiring and plumbing so I could troubleshoot my own issues if needed. Way more than I expected. They also answer questions promptly. Regarding suspension, one of the reasons I purchased Rockwood was their use of the torsion suspension. I have torsion suspension on a large utility trailer, and it pulls and handles like a dream. The Rockwood is the same. When we arrive, almost nothing has moved inside, and it goes over bumps very well. I do not see why all RV trailers would not use torsion suspension. The build quality has been excellent, and we would buy another Rockwood in a minute. I did have another question. When we store the trailer, should we bring in the slides every time, we park it next to my office, so we do go out and fix lunch and spend the night in it maybe once a week if we are too tired to drive home? Love your segments and look forward to more.
I've been an RV tech for 18 years, and prior to that I also worked as a plumber. 10 years ago, I probably would have agreed with you about the plumbing quality. But speaking from experience in the field, we simply don't see issues arise from braided flex hose crimped to pex fittings. Remeber that the psi ratings in an RV differ greatly from household standards, and there are weaker points in an RV plumbing system that will.fail.before these connections. I absolutely agree that brass fittings should be standard. Pex or braided flex hose with brass fittings will usually even survive freezing.
Great video. We ordered a 340RL Alliance in January of 21. Overall, we have been very happy. Our biggest issue has been the slide skis. After many replacements under warranty, Alliance reworked our slide. That lasted only about 6 months. They have since then started using a different slide ski. It's a heavier & wider plastic. We had custom-made stainless steel skis made & installed for our unit. So far, so good.
Happy that worked for you! As I’m watching, I’m thinking about the slides and thought 🤔If it’s the failed slides, I would have to a modification right away! It helps that my hubby is a fantastic welder as me even better fabricator, it could be done. Although I still ask, when paying that kind of money for an RV, these issues should absolutely 💯 not be an issue! Come on engineers! Where did you get your training from? Toy tonka division? Now having said that, and not to diss men, women engineers rock! All that I have seen have attention to detail, and live and see how these mechanisms work. Like vacuum cleaners! How many men use them? Silly analogy, just saying!
Good video I clearly think the Brinkley Z3100 is a winner here. The price point is affordable even here in Canada, I Have a 2022 Cruiser Aire Cr31SI 5th wheel, and it's a real lemon, the awing thore away on our first outing, not the fabric the installation bar on the trailer. the wire of the living room slide was braiding we had to replace that, the shower was not assembled correctly, and water was seeping under the RV floor. The manufacturer finally paid for all of this after 6 months of hassling the dealer for over a grand cost to us. So for us, I'd take the Brinkley 3100 in trade for our lemon. Glad to see there are still some good RV`s in this world. Thank you for this video.
Thank you for this video. We almost bought a Brinkley but to me it just seemed like a mid-profile 5er ( shallow basement) with some very cool creature comforts on it. And then they charge the full-profile price for it. 100 plus. All of my research led us to the Alliance Paradigm 340 RL. We took delivery of our 2023 in mid August. Got it for 33% below MSRP. Fit and finish is excellent. We went through it with a fine tooth comb. Could not find one single thing wrong. I know there will be a shake down period but we are one trip in and so far perfect. 🤞 Thanks again for the review.
Some of the things brinkley is doing is pretty cool. But I 100% agree, it's still just a mid profile camper using super cheap furrion stuff at a full profile price. Can't wait to see the price of their full profile line when it comes out. If they think a midprofile is worth 105K I bet their full profile with the same cheap furrion stuff in it will be 135-140K
There's a young couple that have a YT channel (Wild RV Life ?), they recently purchased the Brinkley 3100 and have non stop issues with their AC units, they also had issues with their trailer brakes (there was a recall) and a few other issues that Brinkley has been able to correct (shipping them parts, etc.). They are still dealing with the AC issues - the techs tell them "it can't be freezing over, that's impossible" and yet ... they have both AC's with ice. I got to see the same model in person and LOVED it! We had looked at other 5th wheels prior and everything was such poor quality - they want way too much money for the garbage they sell as "new" and then you're stuck with the monthly payment + all the repairs, what a nightmare! Thank you so much for this review, I really needed the education on the plumbing system (and the systems used for the slides). I had the RK model on my short list but it's gone gone gone now! Saved me a mountain of misery - thank you again!
I just sent this to Grand Designs. I love the company, and their products. Every Grand Design we’ve ever looked at has had the nicest fit and finishes. I know that they’ve all had their problems, and I can only hope and pray that the RV industry does better.
@@timdennis5853 Every grand design product uses the flex hose with the pex crimps. Where you'll find the majority of the leaks is behind the water service panel. Take that wall down in the pass through and prepared to be shocked at the sight of water and electrical lines all knotted together and the combination of flex hose and pex.
Pretty much after grand design which I had high hopes for sold to winnibego they went down hill fast. Think THOR owned the whole thing and they are info profit not quality
Hopefully you'll do some of the comparable legacy nameplates for Keystone and Jayco in similar price points to see how they stack against the new kids on the block
Another great video, thank you. From a Brinkley RV rep, they are aware of the flex pipe issue in the industry and avoided using the same products. The flex line Brinkley is using is a no crush no kink product that no other manufacturer is using. It's choice was intentionally on the water pump to reduce vibration and a few other areas due to angle of running water lines. Their usage and attachment method is approved by the vendor and they have had no known issues with this application in the field so far in the first year of production.
Your reviews are the most informative on the net. I am shopping for a towable and looked at the Rockwood. The incorrect plumbing was everywhere. I told the salesman and he called the manufacturer's rep who advised it was the most efficient way to do the plumbing and they have not had any complaints. Contrary to that statement, there are complaints on the internet about these types of connections. Keep up the good work and my prediction is you will have a very popular channel.
I stumbled across your video after watching a ton of RV videos and I'm shocked you're the first person to mention the plumbing. As a fellow mech, I've noticed a lot of these RVs look to be plumbing and electrical nightmares. I'm a little surprised they get away with selling some of this stuff because a lot of these practices are flat out illegal in almost every other industry.
I would like to suggest doing an updated inspection of the 3 manufacturer's. I've seen many responses from potential buyers and the manufacturer that suggest they've addressed the issues that you have mentioned, and I believe in all fairness that you should do an updated inspection on those Brands to verify as your 4 month old video can impact decisions we are currently making.
I have a 2020 Grand Design 150 series and it is not plumbed like that. I checked while I was upgrading the converter for lithium batteries and it is all PEX. I was glad because I was easily able to plumb in an outdoor shower connection on the door side for my portable sink.
My 2019 grand design momentum fifth wheel toy hauler is also all pex as well! I’m wondering if they just used whatever was available at the time due to covid supply shortages on the models he reviewed
Very interesting video. Next time you're underneath a Grand Design, Jayco or Coleman and perhaps Rockwood, check the underside of the slideouts. They stopped using any protective barrier and just have thinly painted OSB. Any amount of water that wicks under there will quickly start to rot the floor out - and it's happening.
Tx for video! You "destroyed" my week! LOL I am going to RV show in Tampa, we are changing our MH to 5th wheel. All 3 of those Mfg were on my list. Your compare of Brinkley vs Alliance was spot on! About 6mos ago at dealer, we compared fit/finish and saw the same thing! Brinkley was winner, now I really don't know!
Just today I was looking at trailers and was in a few alliance models and everyone of them the fit and finish still had the splinter drawers in both premier and avenues. I was floored at so many issues in them like you spoke of, I had to just walk on. These were all 2023 & 2024 models. The cougars I viewed had better fit/finish but the counters and other things were on the poor end which just makes me sad. Glad I found your videos and web site because it made it that much better to “see” the reality to what I’m looking for in my next unit which will be for full time living so I make a much better selection. So I keep Loki h as I tick off the list ones that may end up being those lemons and I don’t get stuck unhappy and major broke in the wallet!! Ty soooo much for being so open with all of your fantastic information!!
I truly hope Brinkley has gotten wind of their Plumbing issues and makes the appropriate changes, because we're about ready to pull the trigger on their toy hauler . We absolutely love it and we're expecting twins so we don't want any more unexpected leaks.😅 taking to the road full-time and homeschooling.
Well done. Thanks. We didn't look for all the things you mentioned, but the main reason we didn't buy a Brinkley was frameless windows because they don't open all the way (lose cross-breeze that we love in good weather) and they're too dark (bad for nice views and more open interior feel). Idk why anyone would like frameless windows aside from the sleek appearance.
As a retired Certified RV tech and Navy engineering officer and Submarine Quality assurance officer I chose Alliance. Not sure about slide room but I'll continue to look for problems. Full time for 35 of the last 40 years my favorite slide room was a pneumatic slide on Alfa Gold, out in less than 2 seconds. Think it scares folks 😂 I believe Alliance uses rack and pinion for the one main area slide of the model I am interested in😊
Sooooo...new to this full-time trailer living lifestyle (although I own a small 15' travel trailer that I've completely renovated). I bought a used 2022 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK. I didn't get an inspection (which I later regretted). The first (and only) previous owner had the trailer set up in an area that had VERY hard water. So, it's taken awhile to try and get the grey and black tank sensors clean (lots of CLR and industrial strength vinegar) not to mention the rest of any water related components. I've recently started working on upgrades and mods (especially with the bathroom and kitchen plumbing fixtures and valves) and straight away noticed the problematic plumbing your video described. Let's just say you've inspired me to replace the entire system with PEX B style plumbing. I say all the time that Wile E Coyote is my spirit animal...Back to the Ol drawing board :^(
Just a note on the Alliance Avenue slide outs-The cable system is only for the smaller bedroom slide. Both the main living area slides are mechanical electric through frame. Alliance's position is that the cable is more dependable than the Schwintek used on the bedroom slide before. I had a cable slide on a much larger slide on my first TT and never had an issue with it. I hope this continues.
2021 GD 260RD. Have had no major roblems. Did a 10,000 mile run last fall. Yes that flex hose is wrong, but have had no plumbing issues yet. Been a plumbing contractor and general contractor for over 30 years, so I do keep it up and maintenced
Really appreciate your work here! We are currently researching 5th wheels planning to purchase one for full timing in the next month or so. Your videos are EXTREMELY helpful! Waiting patiently for Undercover Tech video #3.
Just saw this. Hi Brenda. Riverstone looks great but might be too costly for us. My husband is very handy so we are looking at Alliance Paradigm rigs right now.@@brendaleonard1702
Your videos are so great, and well done. I've been an RV'er for a long time and consider myself experienced and can fix most the problems I encounter. But, that pales in comparison to your real-world experience working as a tech in the industry. Your insight is remarkable, I love your attention to detail. Probably my new favorite RU-vid channel that I wish I found sooner! Cheers from south Alabama!
I could not agree more with all you said and for me the number one no go for buying an RV is the water system. We all know how much damage and what a pain is when you have a leak. I walk in and look at that first, if it is a no go in the area alone I walk right out. I don’t look at anything else. I don’t want the headache.
We had the opportunity to visit all 3 factories while in Elkhart earlier this year. Firstly the difference between the factories was very noticeable. The Brinkley factory was brand new and was obviously absolutely spotless and their young guy showing us around was very knowledgeable about how Brinkley are doing it differently. The Grand Design factory was a different story, yes the roof system was noticeably inferior and the factory was very messy. The Alliance factory was more tidy than Grand Design but we did spot a few things about the cabinets I was disappointed in. FYI we have been in the furniture & Flooring retail business for over 38 years so we do have a reasonable idea as to what is acceptable or not. We currently own an Alliance Valor 40 v 13 and have had a few issues, cabinets, plumbing etc. But we have nothing but good things to say about Alliance customer service. In fact they are amazing. Would we buy a Brinkley, HELL YES. Their interior design is absolutely gorgeous compared to Alliance and Grand Design. Just need to stick with the Alliance for a few years until Brinkley gets all the bugs ironed out.
In 2018 I purchased a used private party 2015 Grand Design 303RLS with recommendations from other Grand Design customers. I soon found out they are not such a “grand design”. They in the same category as all rv manufacturers. First problem was air conditioning intake it was not sealed from hot air from ceiling space. Corrected that. After using the using the trailer a few times i noticed a leak on the ground area of water heater. No leaks around gas/electric screen area. Removed the hutch drawers, low behold there is the leak. During manufacturing somebody had cross threaded a fitting on water heater. Instead of fixing the problem they put some kind of goop around it. Corrected that problem. Soon found out another leak on the ground under water hook up area, it was not hose problem. Took the panel off in cargo hold area so I could see the piping, another fitting had been cross threaded, instead of correcting the problem they put some kind of goop around the fitting. After they put that goop around the fittings it had dried out and cracked. Took about 3 years for problem to show up. We love the layout of the coach❤. As of 2023 we have not had any other problems.
Painful to watch as a Grand Design owner. The plumbing problem has existed for years. I removed all the soft hose in my '19 GD trailer (except for the black tank flush lines) and replaced everything with pex. Crazy ridiculous amount of work for a basic system that should just work. Thanks for all your videos.
I think you're amazingly honest and for attack. I don't know who you are attacked for but they lost a good guy. I bought a Keystone bullet 331B. HS, and I've never taken it on a trip. It's only sad in my driveway on my acre. And I've not used any plumbing, thank goodness. For everything you found. The only thing I've ever done was. Use an air conditioner and watched television with my grandchildren. And I only paid 35000 came out of my pocket. It's not perfect but compared to these high dollar trailers. I love it. I. Truly love it and thank you for your honesty. You are blessed and I feel blessed that I got to listen to you from beginning to end.
I have a 2020 GD Imagine 2970RL, and while we love the floor plan, ours has definitely not been rocksolid. We continue to have leaks around the dinette and lounger slide. The thermal foil MDF covered countertops, have leaked over the edges in the kitchen and bathroom and expanded. I have repaired around those edges using Minwax wood harder and that seems to have eliminated problem of expansion when the water rolls over the edge. I’m also definitely not a fan of the vinyl coated MDF for the cabinets, they look good, but do not have much resiliency. By the way, ours was built before Covid. We picked it up in February 2020, so it is not a Covid build quality trailer.
I've been in the RV industry for just over 7 Years. Started in the flooring production line for Jayco ( Star Craft and Highland Ridge ) for 5 and the last 2 as a rv tech at a dealership. I've mainly worked on Grand design and I can confirm the water leak issues is the worst problem with them on any model since that can lead to bigger issues if left unchecked. Once you use and abuse it under warranty it's a decent overall rv. Definitely seen those bent outriggers and the flooring coming apart inside the basement so get a good inspection done and don't rush it. Recently been working for another dealer and now work with Brinkley and Alliance as well. My first impressions are definitely towards Brinkley. No major issues worked on yet. But in my experience working at the factory, actually building them. I got to see Quantity is the ultimate goal over Quality. It's only a matter of time before Brinkley will ramp up production and naturally loose some quality to be able to meet quota. We used to build the smallest 15 to 20 foot travel trailers at 6 to 8 minute line moves per department. Meaning we would build up to 44 trailers in an 8 hour day. Usually done in 6 hours some days. Which means from start to finish we would of completed about 5 to 8 trailers per day since there are about 36 bays through out the factory building. Not alot of room for "quality" at these high quotas. After covid it only got worse for a while. I've been to Grand Designs factory in Indiana and it's the same exact standards as Jayco as I seen the crew going to work. Which I would assume most factory are all similar. Just do your homework and don't buy on impulse for any brand rv out there is my advise to anyone buying ...things change for the manufacturers and they got to keep up with demand. It's up to you guys out there to demand a change in these common flaws and standards. I really hope for Brinkley to prove me wrong along with more manufacturers
Great Video, totally agree with the plumbing, also one other thing is the suspension on all these RV's a weak point. We have upgraded 8K axels and disk brakes and were still just barely under our weight limit. Any 5th wheel should come with a minimum 10,000 lb axels or at least give you the option for them. the 1& 3/4 leaf springs should only be put on utility trailers not something that weighs between 13,000 and 20,000 lbs. The wet bolts are terrible, you can't lube half of them because either the sewer pipe is in the way and you can't get the grease gun up in there to lube it OR the brass bushings are completely destroyed after 500 miles and they won't take any lube. It's such a garage system, they all need something way better. Im going with Morryde independent suspension on our next rig. I spoke with Morryde and they said there's are 9,000 lb axels so that's great news.
Keep in mind that >20% of the weight of a fifth wheel is on the tow vehicle and not the axles. I have a 15,000 gross weight fifth wheel and it came with 7,000 pound axles, that might seem too low, but over 3,000 pounds is on the pin, so the axles never see more than 12,000 pounds. When I put in disc brakes I did upgrade the outer bearings so the axles are now 8,000 pound rated, but even the 7,000 pound axles provided 2,000 of extra capacity versus what they should ever see.
As an RV inspector, I appreciate hearing your comments. The plumbing is something I wasn’t aware of. I assumed the brass fittings for the Brinkley was an upgrade. Wow! Thank you!
I don't really have to repair plastic PEX fittings. Brass is better if you plan to freeze the whole water system, but plastic is fine for the intended use. But PEX fitting with a flex hose crimped on...that is a potential leak and does not conform to NFPA 1192 7.3.2.2. The RVIA is not enforcing the code they adopt which is not just a shame, but more of a crime as many water leaks as it causes. Especially when a flex hose pops off of the water heater because the heat made it too soft to grip the PEX fitting any more. I hope that the industry will change as allowing bad plumbing is not fair to consumers. Thanks for watching!
Great video. First one of your videos that I have come across. Just subscribed and will look back through you prior videos. This one was perfect. It had the 3 brands I have been considering.... specifically the 340RL and Model Z 3100. I have run into the owners of Alliance and Brinkley at RV shows. In talking to them they seemed genuinely interested in feedback and improving their products.... hopefully that will continue as they get bigger and videos like this can help. Thanks!
That's my hope as well! My goal is that customers will start demanding better quality and the manufacturers that care will listen and the ones that don't will go out of business.
My Alliance Avenue has perfect fit n finish, not one thing out of place. So far no issues with the only schwenteck bedroom slide. Fingers crossed 🤞. Top notch customer service! No plumbing issues with either bathroom, counters holding up nicely n we've been living full time for almost a year! Still looks brand new!
I heard schwenteck is one of the worst slide system. When the slides have had problems on all kinds of RV this is the worst one that keeps getting stuck or becomes off balance, etc....
I already have a Grand Design. You are 100% correct about the plumbing. What do you suggest or recommend to rectify the issue? Clearly cutting out all the incorrect fittings and junctions could cause problems that have not yet arisen. However, not correcting those issues could lead to trouble down the road. What do you advise?
The only way to keep these fittings from leaking is to remove the flex hose and replace with PEX and crimp rings. The flex hose is a slightly different diameter then the pex fitting they are attached too and leaks will absolutely develop over time where these two come together. At a minimum, you should remove part of the wall in the pass through and replace with plexiglass near the water service panel so you can check for leaks that develop. I bought a battery powered water leak alarm and placed the sensors on the floor underneath the water service panel and ran the alarm box up into the living space. An undetected dripping leak will cause thousands of dollars in damage if not discovered. Without being vigilent, you'll never see the damage until its way too late.
My God, that is horrible. How could they do this to me (to us as RV owners)? We all paid thousands of dollars for the RVs of our dreams (this is my third one) never knowing we have bought a ticking time bomb that will eventually cause very expensive, undetected damage. I'm no plumber. I did not sign up to repair or replace every plumbing connection in my brand new RV. I can install water leak alarms, but I think it is ridiculous that I should have to. I am hoping that Jacob will offer some professional advice for a remedy that the average RV owner can implement. For that matter, I don't even know how to gain access to every plumbing connection in my RV. Many of them are probably hidden or in inaccessible places. This is really bad and it makes me angry. I feel duped.
Brinkley is the safest as far as trying to cover your investment and resale value. THEY NEED BETTER FLOOR PLANS! Crowded space everywhere, fortunately I'll be spending most of my time in the 16' recording studio I'm setting up for myself.
After watching a bunch of consumer rv videos on them, it’s pretty shocking how bad they really are for supposedly being a better maker. Biggest complaint was the access to service. I was like nope nope 👎 and then after seeing Forest River I was like no wonder why grand design looks like a golden child. Consumers need to demand more.
God thank you for pointing out the plumbing. Been loving my grand design for the most part, but they don't know how to do plumbing at all. Has cost me hundreds in diy repairs on leaking lines in multiple places, that ruins all the mdf constructed cabinetry. And they put one of the main electronic control box right under the bathroom sink plumbing with 0 water protection. If I had to pay a professional for repairs I would easily be looking at thousands by now.
Nice job! We own a Grand Design 280rs and love it. I pretty handy with tools and it doesn't hurt that I was a plumbing contractor for forty years. I also took an online course on rv maintenance and repair. We love our Grand Design but I spend a lot of time adjusting and fixing things.
Excellent video and information. I have been dealing with plumbing and electrical issues that are a mess in my new "high end" 5th wheel. Replacing it with the correct components rewiring and replumbing myself. Also, see the issue with fit and finish across the board and how sloppy some manufacturers are. It's almost a choice as to the best of several evils. What are you willing to live with and compromise on. It's hard to find a good model and manufacturer. I remember when I bought this current 5th wheel I have, the unit I looked at and heavily inspected for every detail, wasn't the same unit they tried to get me to take delivery of after the dealer "prep". I would love to see the "RIGOR" scale applied to an Airstream.
Like your videos ,I am a retired auto tech and still learn from your inspections and tests,very informative and you are right they all seem to be built kinda crappy due to regulation on standards.
Hi Jacob, first let me say your videos are awesome! I’m a huge fan!! Your critique of Brinkley’s plumbing elicited this response from the company. Would really like to get your thoughts on their claim of using a type of flex hose that should be ok: “We are aware of this issue across the industry. The flex line we are using is a no crush no kink that no one else has used. We use it intentionally on the water pump to reduce vibration and a few other areas due to angle of running water lines. Our attachment method is approved by our vendor and we have had no known issues with this application.”
@@Primus2004 Shur flo makes screw on connectors for their pumps that are designed to connect to flex, PEX fittings are designed for PEX, not flex and are undersized for flex. I don’t think flex is bad so much as flex connected to a PEX fitting is bad. Half inch flex is half inch ID, half inch PEX is smaller than half inch. I had several flex connected with PEX fittings leak.
The problem, if i'm understanding it correctly, is NOT that flex line is bad; the problem is using the wrong fitting on the flex line. Particularly seen when pex and flex join. They are using a pex fitting to connect pex to flex, which is wrong. The pex should have a proper threaded pex fitting and the flex should have a proper flex specific threaded fitting and then you can screw the two together to make a proper pex to flex joint.
@@ScottenJonesVideo I finally learnt how to deal with the wrong pipes. Go around the nipple several times with *real* ptfe tape, pulling it real tight, but not enough tape to make the diameter too big for the pipe. Heat the pipe up a little with a heat gun, and tighten 2 regular hose clamps while the pipe is still soft. Careful not to melt anything.
@@garysarratt1 when you say “wrong pipes” do you mean flex tubing. I would not be comfortable that the method you are describing would be a reliable fix. What I did was get fittings designed for flex tubing plus minimize the use of Felix tubing, basically I only have it on my pump.
I've long been an GD fan just due to what I can see. But I never knew that how bad they were doing plumbing. Wish you do this on more travel trailer or smaller units such as the NuCamp Barefoot
Love your video. As a fellow RV tech, your evaluation seems spot on. Just went to Tampa Super RV Show and was so disappointed with Alliance and GD. One point I wish you would have covered was structural build between the three which one favors over the other. From my experience and inspections Brinkley has a superior build quality over Alliance and GD.
I like the way you support your assessments with logic and reason; and not just an arbitrary opinion! Subscribed! Looking forward to your assessments of the Keystone Cougar, Montana and Outback brands.
We have a Brinkley Z3100 and couldn't be happier. Fit and Finish is perfect and I can change the plumbing very easily because they put door access to the under floor plumbing. No one else does that. BRINKLEY FOR ME!!!
You are correct and I am confident the "Brinkley Admin" will take a look at that in the future. I'm still sold on Brinkley and I'll tell you why. It's something that he DID NOT cover in his assessment. Try calling each of the manufactures "Customer Service" phone numbers. When you call Brinkley you talk to a human, in the United States, who has the information AND POWER to address your problem. I had a minor issue with one of our slides. In one phone call I was provided with the contact information for 3 mobile techs in my area who I could call and make an appointment. In addition, when my mobile tech arrived he had a technical question regarding my Z3100. we called Brinkley Customer Service again (on a Saturday) and spoke to a person at Brinkley who knew the answer. During the conversation he was also told that if he submitted his invoice by Wednesday, he would be paid on Friday. My tech told name that NO ONE ELSE in the industry has a turn around time like that for payment. One more thing. Take a look at the ceiling area on any other RV and look at the seam between the vertical wall and the ceiling. Is it covered by crown molding? That's how all of the other manufactures hide the imperfections at that connection. Not in the Brinkley!! The seam between the wall and the ceiling in PERFECT!!!! No need to hide that seam..I've had several RV's, amber pulls and 5th wheels. I have never seen a better made, better serviced, better planned out unit that my Brinkley Z3100. The plumbing issue to a minor concern and something I can fix myself,,,, or I can have a mobile tech come out and Brinkley will pay the cost of the service call and repair. See if ANY of the others do that. Don
@@donbarkas7240 this is why I’m leaning to Brinkley after doing research for a year now. I send an email asking a question, I get an answer in hours. And a direct answer, no “well” “let’s see” just super black and white communication so far. I’ve sent 3 inquires into Grand Design about their frame. 3 months and no reply to any of my emails. I forwarded this video to the rep I’ve been emailing on Saturday, an hour later, “yes we’re looking at it”. What they do as a result is to be seen.
@@donbarkas7240I think many of the benefits of Brinkley were missed or skipped over. I believe that this is likely because the other two don't compare. For example, the leaf springs on the Brinkley are rated higher than the axle rating. Leaf springs have been a major issue for Grand Design. Also, every water line has its own shutoff in addition to the brass fittings. Then there is the fact that there are not staples everywhere. My last Grand Design was held together by staples and when we looked at Alliance we found the same - not to mention the god awful fit/finish, we did not see a single Aliance at two dealerships that did not have very obvious issues.
RU-vid content is typically created to be picked up by the algorithm so the "shock factor" is often employed. Regardless of which brand you buy, failures will occur. Some are due to poor choice in parts, others poor install, and others user/operator error over time. Pros and cons to flex vs rigid PEX for sure, but it's okay to use flex in the right spot in an RV. Lots of opinions out there, but don't panic if your RV has flex braided lines here and there. I'd be more concerned about having a good pressure reducing valve (PRV) and ensuring your RV is winterized properly as those two factors may very well have more of an impact on plumbing failures long-term.
I think the issue isn’t flex lines themselves, but connecting them to PEX fittings. Half inch flex lines are half inch ID, half inch PEX is less than half inch ID. My Jayco had multiple flex lines connected by PEX fittings and several of them started to leak. In some places I could replace them with PEX, in places where I needed to stay with flex I got special fittings designed for PEX on one end and flex on the other end. The flex connection end is bigger diameter than the PEX end, no more leaks.
Great review!! Thank you for taking your time to help us all spend our hard earned money in a better way. 🙂 I walked an Alliance Paradigm recently, and all the drawers in the kitchen were tilted out at the bottom, giving it a washboard appearance among many other finish issues. What is your grade for the side wall construction of these three manufacturers?
Thanks! That is kind of you to say😊 Regarding wall construction, I really can't comment on quality without seeing inside the walls and checking welds. I think they all have aluminum frames which is theoretically better quality than wood frame, but either way it is essential that every seam be properly sealed to prevent water damage.
Next review suggestion: Northwood Arctic Fox 27-5L. One of a very few that are built to last and have superior cold weather performance. I'd be interested to see your assessment (also one of the few who aren't in Elkhart)
I really like these videos. I'm looking at Lance trailers and have heard good things but would like to see a review by you on Lance. I'm looking at the 1985 model.
My last trailer was a 2021 Lance 2075. I bought it because of its reputation for quality. I was pretty disappointed. That year Lance use thermofoil counters. The cabinets looked nice but were cheaply constructed. The shower leaked. The propane stove never worked correctly. I had some minor electrical issues. The dealer service was unacceptably bad. Lance has since made some improvements, but I'd still be very unlikely to buy another one.
Wow, what a awesome video and a big. Thank you for having the bravery to show. What really goes on in the RV industry This is a must watch video for everyone planning to buy a RV i wish you would do more brands and to continue to tell the truth.
I just watched this and it was informative. I have a 2017 Cedar Creek and do all my work myself. I never realized that soft pipe was an issue. I checked mine after watching and the only place there was soft pipe was in and out of the 12v water pump. It used gear clamps and not pex clamps. I've done a bunch of work on my unit and its the things that you can't see are the scariest. I removed the entire bottom of mine to remove a couple of stinky dead mice.( you pay that much money you would think the thing would be sealed up to stop them from getting in). When open i sealed everything up. Found the fresh water tank almost ready to fall out. Missing fasteners! Then also missing on all tanks. Fixed a window that leaked - not installed correctly, but couldn tell until it already leaked.
The one thing with Alliance is that is something was wrong, they will fix it. The drawer, that should have never left the factory, they would replace. Other things, yes it should have been caught at the factory. Great review on the big brands. I walked through some Brinkleys but didn't catch the plumbing (wasn't actually looking to buy, so wasn't looking also).
The Furrion AC has been an utter disaster for an awful lot of owners to the extent that I’d be very tempted to avoid any unit with one. Yes the frame on the 390RK has been a mess. However the good news is that Grand Design has recognized the problem and is not only taking care of existing owners but has a fix implemented for new production units.
The frame is a mess because the RV is designed wrong. I have one and everything in the rear refrigerator is destroyed on every trip. Grand Design has sent me EXTRA refrigerator shelves because at least one breaks every trip. The rear of this trailer bounces excessively because of the design. It should have a 3rd axle from the factory.
You should look into heartland. I’ve had over 30+ repairs brought it in to be fixed under warranty they fixed some but I did the rest and took whole bottom off and replaced all water fittings. I’ll never buy a heartland again. It’s a 2021 heartland road Warrior 414
I wish I had seen a video like this, before I bought my Grand Design last Jan. It was definitely not worth what I paid for it, seeing all the issues I have had so far@! 🤬
Fantastic Video Jacob !!! Also I have your course on dont break your RV and its AMAZING. To those looking at purchasing, stop looking and get it. It will pay for itself in no time at all.
Wow this is some of the best content I’ve seen on this topic on RVs on RU-vid. Thanks for all your hard work. I’m finding your videos very helpful as we search for our first family bunkhouse for our family of 6! I think a great idea for a video would be to look at some of the most popular bunkhouse floor plans like the imagine 2800 bh, jayco jayflight 285 bhs, jay feather 27bhb and heartland mallard m26 just to name a few. Looking forward to your future videos !
Well, we just bought a reflection 100. Took it out for the first time this past weekend. Just upgraded from an imagine 2400bhwe. So far, no major issues. Couple minor issues. Definitely will be keeping an eye on the plumbing...
I have been a full-time rv dweller for the past six years and counting. I currently own a 2017 ORV 25RDS travel trailer or also known as 250RDS. I boondocked 96% of the time and all this time I have been to many washboards, unpaved terrains, and rocky roads and has never been to a shop since bought new. I do all the minor works and maintenance on the road and majority of the big components is still doing its job keeping me a happy camper. ORV is a sister of Northwood Manufacturing who makes Arctic Fox which is a solid company and solid products. I will not hesitate to buy another ORV again or any Northwood Manufacturing products but I am upgrading to a 5th wheel toy hauler which none of the two have available. I most likely go with Grand Design Momentum since they are the only ones who has an eighteen feet garage I like to haul my junk on the road. You can't go wrong with ORV or Northwoods and they make them in Oregon if that is something you prefer and they also do rally every year where they fix things that are wrong in your rv for free during the rally event. Although, double check since mostly like things have change. Happy camping and take the less traveled path.
Wish I would have seen this video before buying my GD imagine xls. I’m at least glad I did enough research to know to buy used and save myself some money and from the scammy dealerships. That said, I’ve been correcting all plumbing fittings, starting with the leak at the water heater which all have brass fittings that convert pex to vinyl tubing. Not cheap, but still cheaper than buying a new Rv and dealing with fighting for warranty service.
Giving Brinkley and Grand Design an F just because of the plumbing makes no sense. This video should have been who has the best plumbing equals the best RV. You ruined the video by doing that.
Well someone wasn't paying attention in class as Grand Design only had 1 out of 2 that was graded an F, the other a B and both Brinkleys were a B. Perhaps you should rewatch the video and sit in the corner until you can get it right. 🫶🫶
That's like saying you shouldn't give an airplane an F just because the engines fall off. Faulty plumbing can and has ruined many an rv. The water damage will warp floors, destroy cabinets and stowed gear, and cause mold to spread inside the walls, rendering the rv uninhabitable. A total write-off.
Alliance responded to my concerns about their Delta slide mechanisms and plumbing. They indicated they are not using the evil BAL accu-slide and are using PEX thru out. " I’m glad you have noticed our upgrade to the water lines utilizing all PEX plumbing throughout....The 292RL will utilize a rack and pinion on both of the main slides. The 294Rk will use the same system for the theater seat slide and will use the BAL Exact slide on the entertainment slide."
I thought the same thing when I was looking at the floor plans on the Brinkley website. I thought, “hey, that’s a sink on the slide out”? Trouble was what I thought and I see that here as well….
Tankless water heaters are a nightmare when you're off grid. We are tent campers and bought our first travel trailer. We made the mistake of getting a tankless water heater and we hate it. Not only does it waste water but even when we do have full water hookup it fills the gray tanks up faster, takes longer to get hot water and often fails. They are junk.
Are you getting a full independent inspection? Would you come back and share your findings if you did? I emailed my Brinkley contact over the weekend and they said they saw this video already.
Read through the comments on this thread and you'll find that Brinkley responded to the video and explained that the things he complained about aren't actually a problem and why.
Brinkely uses all the cheapest parts. Furrion stuff is all chinese junk, and that's all brinkley uses EVERYWHERE in their rv. They just have people fooled into thinking if they pay more they are getting better stuff, their not.
We're looking at a new rv and I'm an RV tech. We are considering these 3 brands. It's interesting how alliance moved from the schwintek to the cable slides. When I took a poll of other rv techs, the majority of them prefer the BAL cable slide. Now, not being able to adjust the cables is a different problem. Also, you counted off for GD and alliance for the Mach ACs because you've seen many problems with them. That's probably because they're used on so many rigs. I'd be more concerned about the "untested" unit on the Brinkley. Overall interesting video.
The grand design we owned had brakes that worked intermittently. It also had a black tank that had a low spot in the middle, so it was impossible to clean. We got rid of the camper after 3 months when it became apparent none of the issues we encountered were being taken seriously.
Every black and gray tanks have low spots in the middle. It could be improved by the manufacturers by adding a metal support bar though. I am just saying you will likely find the same issue in every RV.
