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Understanding Plato with Pierre Grimes 

New Thinking Allowed with Jeffrey Mishlove
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Pierre Grimes, PhD, is a specialist in classical Greek philosophy. He is the founder of the American Philosophical Practitioners Association. He is also founder of the Noetic Society in the Los Angeles area. He is author of Philosophical Midwifery: A New Paradigm for Understanding Human Problems, Socrates and Jesus: A Dialogue in Heaven, and Unblocking: Removing Blocks to Understanding. He is also a decorated veteran of the second world war.
Here he shares his passion for Plato as his greatest spiritual inspiration. He distinguishes between the Socratic dialogue and the Platonic dialectic. He highlights passages from some of Plato's dialogues. He describes the similarities between the emphasis on the "self" in Plato and in Buddhism, and laments that modern, western philosophy has lost this emphasis on self-knowledge.
New Thinking Allowed host, Jeffrey Mishlove, PhD, is author of The Roots of Consciousness, Psi Development Systems, and The PK Man. Between 1986 and 2002 he hosted and co-produced the original Thinking Allowed public television series. He is also past-president of the non-profit Intuition Network, an organization dedicated to creating a world in which all people are encouraged to cultivate and apply their inner, intuitive abilities.
(Recorded on April 16, 2018)
For a complete, updated list with links to all of our videos -- as well as many other opportunities to engage with and support the New Thinking Allowed video channel -- please visit the New Thinking Allowed Foundation at www.newthinkingallowed.org.

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9 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 116   
@now3210
@now3210 2 года назад
Truth is the path to enlightenment.
@lav1daloca
@lav1daloca 3 года назад
Pierre is a Phillosopher King 👑
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica 2 года назад
No but he eis closely friend of Him: Plato is this Self King.
@sheep9944
@sheep9944 Год назад
Amen! ❤️
@user-yo9pv1ni6t
@user-yo9pv1ni6t 6 месяцев назад
read my post above.
@adamslowikowski3085
@adamslowikowski3085 2 года назад
Thank you for your video interview with Pierre Grimes discussing the great Plato. Pierre has such a wonderful understanding of Plato's philosophy in terms of spiritual meaning and mystery wisdom. Plato is certainly not antiquarian and irrelevant to today's world. No less than the late Lyndon Larouche saw Plato, along with Gottfried Leibniz and Frederick Schiller, as absolutely vital to resuscitating human civilisation by bringing right understanding to human problems, not least in the areas of humanistic politics and productive economic development. 🙂🌞🌻💛🙏
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica 2 года назад
(Again, again and again. TY JEFFREY!)
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica 2 года назад
Imagine Socrates talk with another Socrates: Plato is a absolutely genius!
@sherlockholmeslives.1605
@sherlockholmeslives.1605 5 лет назад
What a lovely, lovely man Pierre seems to be!
@Here_Today_
@Here_Today_ 6 лет назад
What a conversation! Thanks for letting us listen in.
@Gabriel21733
@Gabriel21733 4 года назад
These interviews with Pierre grimes bring out the best of the host. What a pleasure to watch.
@TheTalkWatcher
@TheTalkWatcher 5 лет назад
It is conversations such as this one that makes NTA the best channel on RU-vid.
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica 2 года назад
GENIUS STUFF HERE I.A. !!!
@phillipbernhardt-house6907
@phillipbernhardt-house6907 6 лет назад
I did not know of Pierre Grimes before your first interview with him, Jeff, and I have yet to find anything he says disagreeable...and he's such a delightful fellow as well! I'm going to have to get a hold of his books, I think...
@fryingwiththeantidote2486
@fryingwiththeantidote2486 5 лет назад
go for his lectures, theres hundreds of them
@schoolofalchemy
@schoolofalchemy 4 года назад
Were you able to read any of his books? I met him once and he is a pleasure to talk to.
@jackmabel6067
@jackmabel6067 4 года назад
@Donald J : Hell yeah! You tell 'em!
@sacredmetaphics
@sacredmetaphics 3 года назад
I have always thought of Plato and the Philosophy of the Greeks as a spiritual discipline. I now feel vindicated. So much to learn and so little time. I feel privileged to have listened to this interview
@withnail-and-i
@withnail-and-i 2 года назад
Pierre Hadot has written a lot about this. Also, Peter Kingsley has explored the mystical beginning of western rationality with Parmenides, and then Empedocles.
@jasonmitchell5219
@jasonmitchell5219 Месяц назад
It's weird, I've watched quite a few of these vids', especially with Pierre and Jorjani and it's just now that I've realised how skilled and interviewer Jeff is.
@theincompleteskeptic8079
@theincompleteskeptic8079 4 года назад
Love the backstories! Thank you!
@gabrielfuentes5749
@gabrielfuentes5749 2 года назад
What a wonderful conversation, thank you for sharing!
@OrisLover
@OrisLover 6 лет назад
Truly amazing.
@pythagoreios07
@pythagoreios07 5 лет назад
I am addicted to Pierre Grimes!!!!!!
@edholohan
@edholohan 4 года назад
Try the 12 Steps.
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica Год назад
Ty so much! Again.
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica Год назад
Ty so much!
@jladimirceroline4535
@jladimirceroline4535 5 лет назад
love this guy.
@negbefla6956
@negbefla6956 2 года назад
He studies and knows Plato, and he resembles
@mygirldarby
@mygirldarby 2 года назад
When we look alike, we are alike. And the greater the resemblance is, the more alike we are. There was or perhaps still is a site where you can submit your photo and their algorithm would try to match it to other people. It was called Twin Strangers. The strangest thing is that when two completely unrelated people who look alike decided to get to know their twin stranger, they realised they had the same or similar occupation, similar hand and face gestures, similar likes/dislikes, etc. No one can explain it, but I believe it is more evidence of what I have long known and observed in life. If you look like someone and yet have no genetic relation to them, you will be like them. Every single person I look like among famous people I've been told I resemble over the years are all vegetarians, for example. Every one of them. That is what initially led me to this idea, and I have found many examples of it since.
@sheep9944
@sheep9944 Год назад
He UNDERSTANDS Plato. One person in this world. Isn’t that sad?
@gphilipvirgil355
@gphilipvirgil355 3 года назад
Wonderful
@robokugel3383
@robokugel3383 3 года назад
wholesome discussion
@napoleonbonaparte7692
@napoleonbonaparte7692 3 года назад
Honestly, I discovered Pierre Grimes a year or so ago when I needed help with my Plato homework.. this man is such an authority and I give him enormous respect. I'm studying the Theaetetus (by the way Theaetetus teacher was Theodorus Grimes, not Protagoras, I think you grabbed the wrong bird in the aviary haha) right now in my European Studies degree and stumbled on this video. Im so glad I did. I also just reserved a copy of Alders Great books at my library, this seems vital to my western education. Grimes honestly is inspirational and a life long learner in possibility the most important yet under appreciated disciplines in society. I intend to take a look at his book. I did however almost spit out my coffee when I heard he was taught by Alan Watts. At the end of their interview you said perhaps you could have Pierre back to talk about Alan Watts. I would absolutely love that, these two seem like intellectual equals and the fact that they associated with each other makes me exuberant. I'm not sure if you are aware but people have been making "chillstep" mixes with on top of Alan Watts work (its music) I listen to it all them all the time. This type of work introduces Alan's Idea to many people, There are SO many of them and they are therapeutic, and i'm SO grateful for his existence, his voice is better then Morgan Freeman's in my ears. I honestly am so happy right now to discover that the worlds of Plato and the East not only collided but merged in Grimes relationship with Watts. I only wish I was in the back seat of that 1935 convertible speeding off to San Francisco. What an incredible story and incredible lives. Thank you for hosting and presenting this video. Also, here is one of these Alan Watts Chillstep Mixes ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-89iYE5nlA90.html&ab_channel=TrippinTurtlord
@Robb3348
@Robb3348 2 года назад
Grimes is mentioned very approvingly by Watts in his autobiography, "In My Own Way." Personally, I'm not very impressed with Grimes' "wisdom." But I've noticed that Watts was very generous to other spiritual teachers, though they didn't always return the compliment.
@crunchfootjim4936
@crunchfootjim4936 3 года назад
19:20 The basic problem that I see currently is that some people far too often cannot distinguish statements of fact from statements of opinion.
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica Год назад
yes
@Silvertestrun
@Silvertestrun 2 года назад
Ty
@mortalclown3812
@mortalclown3812 3 года назад
The calm of his sharpness is beguiling in all the ways. Just about. ♡
@billbradleymusic
@billbradleymusic 4 года назад
Very nice
@plattburger1
@plattburger1 Год назад
Awesome
@bennguyen1313
@bennguyen1313 Год назад
Would love to hear Pierre's thoughts on ideology as it pertains to Plato's Allegory of the Cave. It's usually framed as living in an illusion/appearance (inside the cave) or reality/essence (exiting the matrix), however.. Slavoj Zizek suggests essence emerges only through appearance (Hegel's speculative idealism). Ideology INCLUDES the fantasy that you can step outside to a true reality. Julian de Madeiros has a great video (Why you can't escape Ideology) that talks about this at the 6m30s mark.
@craigosborn6201
@craigosborn6201 4 года назад
THKU.THKU THKU 🤗🤗😁
@user-dm5kv9gz8h
@user-dm5kv9gz8h 4 года назад
Thank you sir for studying what you really want and not what others want us to believe and search cause what we believe isn’t the same of what we actually know.
@roygbiv176
@roygbiv176 6 лет назад
yes please do a conversation on Alan Watts.
@aphysique
@aphysique 6 лет назад
Pythagoras, next?👌🙏
@RUMPLEforeskin25
@RUMPLEforeskin25 4 года назад
I read he was a Freemason. This leads to a totally new set up questions.
@wantanamera
@wantanamera 3 года назад
@@RUMPLEforeskin25 freemasonry was started in the early 18th century ..
@TheLastOutlaw289
@TheLastOutlaw289 3 года назад
@@wantanamera lol my goodness...
@monstersaint
@monstersaint 2 года назад
I'm getting the book. Super interesting.
@StevenParrisWard
@StevenParrisWard 2 года назад
A great conversation about two philosophical giants.
@mygirldarby
@mygirldarby 2 года назад
I enjoyed the entire discussion but my favorite part was when they discussed reality. I agree, there is Truth and everything is not relative. Example, several years ago there was a meme going around about the color of a dress in a photo. Some people said the dress looked blue and other said it looked gold and white. After much online bickering someone used Photoshop to definitively find the actual color using the eye dropper tool. The dress was in fact blue. People who saw it as gold/white were not persuaded however and insisted it was the color they perceived. The takeaway that too many people got from the whole thing was the opposite of what it demonstrated. The dress is in fact blue. It is not gold/white and it isn't relative. Regardless of whether you see an optical illusion that makes it appear gold/white does not change the fact that the color of the cloth used to make the dress was blue. I still see people referencimg that meme and it is always to prop up the false idea that there is no objective truth, only relative opinion. Just because some people see the dress as blue and others see it as gold/white does not mean it is both and everyone is correct. The dress is blue. Period. The idea that everything is relative is not healthy for a society. We must have objective truth and we must agree on what that is. If 2+2 can equal 4 _and_ also 3 then we can't have a shared mathematics. If I say the starting line for a race is 100 ft away from where another person says is the starting line, we can't have a fair race.
@dmshueyable
@dmshueyable 2 года назад
If you havent already check out some of Pierre Grimes other videos on youtube --- the Noetic Society. There are some great discussions on a number of topics in which he demostrates philosophy. Philosophy as a verb. Also, I should say, thank you Jeffrey for being such a great thinker, listener, and interviewer. It is a fabulous channel you have put together. 100k subs in the near future. Cheers.
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica 2 года назад
2:37, Pierre shows his mastery of dialogue by his high listening ability... He disagrees, Platonic academy is logically a non-university equivalent today, but even so he listens and waits: and when Jeffrey concludes, Pierre realizes that the meaning of argument was another... Too beautiful! (listen this is a puzzle...) 7:40 Jeffrey got beautiful, the idea.
@amanitamuscaria7500
@amanitamuscaria7500 2 года назад
I love Pierrre. I wish Socrates had a seat in the Houses of Parliament.
@alcosmic
@alcosmic 6 лет назад
My socks. They have been knocked off.
@amanitamuscaria7500
@amanitamuscaria7500 2 года назад
Jeffrey - you're starting to sound like the inimitable Rumsfeld!
@preston9135
@preston9135 Год назад
AMAZIN The Kingdom of heaven is within. the Holy spirit will teach u all things.only if plato and Socrates had a chance to talk to Christ what a conversation know thyself
@hugodesrosiers-plaisance3156
Thank you for this delicious brain food. From this exchange, Plato, while being undeniably foundational, sounds like he may have been a bit pedantic and condescending - or maybe just overly intellectualizing. Socrates on the other hand sounds like he was much more empathetic and close to other Humans. Is that a fair assesment? This an honest question, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks again!
@ummnadia
@ummnadia 6 лет назад
looking forward to the Watts discussion
@mattgreen3696
@mattgreen3696 4 года назад
couldnt you argue that saying "know yourself" is prototypical sophism
@runswithbears3517
@runswithbears3517 4 года назад
The modern way it is used is quite cliché, but uncovering the "true self" is part of the enlightenment process of many spiritual teachings. What it tends to mean (though this is a generalization) is shedding oneself of all the false beliefs that have been imprinted since birth.
@thegoodlydragon7452
@thegoodlydragon7452 4 года назад
Nobody likes you, Snoop Dogg. You’re full of yourself and think smoking weed counts as an accomplishment.
@abohnad
@abohnad 5 лет назад
I think the sophists were correct @20:00 a person appears to get smaller and smaller to the people he’s moving away from, but larger and larger to the people he is moving close to. Can anyone explain why the sophists didnt s’refute back according to their teachings ? Its easy to refute this argument of Socrates. Please if you know the answer share. Thank you.
@abohnad
@abohnad 5 лет назад
Anyone ?
@lukajung9051
@lukajung9051 4 года назад
Concerns the matter that whatever limit the person is walking to or away from is relative to the observer from each respective end.
@abohnad
@abohnad 5 лет назад
Jeff, I am civil engineering graduate. I studied philosophy since age of 12. I love the stuff you post. I am welling to work with you. If you want an Arabic/Islamic section for the new thinking allowed. I would be thrilled to do it. Thank you for this great movement.
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica 2 года назад
20:35
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica 2 года назад
27:31
@aesthesiak
@aesthesiak 2 года назад
,,, the Jnana Mudra for teaching at the end~
@AnthrYrslf
@AnthrYrslf 6 лет назад
another could never be another, without another. the More the merrier?
@hang-sangitch
@hang-sangitch 5 лет назад
I get in my own way all the time 😂
@loveofinquiry8067
@loveofinquiry8067 5 лет назад
Socrates was like Byron Katie is today. Socrates dealt with beliefs not emotions though the emotions are directly effected by beliefs. This of course is the difference between philosophy and psychology, philosophers deal with questioning belief systems where as psychologists deal with emotions.
@Robb3348
@Robb3348 2 года назад
Socrates and Byron Katie on the same level??? IMHO you need to sharpen your discernment skills
@innakupriyanova8449
@innakupriyanova8449 5 лет назад
As a reasonable person, I am inclined to believe that existence exists, and non-existence doesn't exist.
@metafisicacibernetica
@metafisicacibernetica 2 года назад
as a reasonable person you need to know, and not believe.
@Robb3348
@Robb3348 2 года назад
thank you Parmenides
@Robb3348
@Robb3348 2 года назад
If anyone wants to understand Plato's basic stance and his foundational philosophical ideas, I highly recommend reading Eric Perl, especially his book "Thinking Being." In that book, you'll find an uncommonly lucid presentation of Plato's ideas. If you enjoy clear thinking, free from obscurantism and any false pose of authority, I think you'll like that book. It is available to read online for free, btw. If you read that book, you'll have the authority of your own thought process to support you, not vague quotations and arguments from authority as you find in this interview. And yes, I am implying that Perl is a much better expositor of Plato than Grimes. Just for example, around 27:30, Grimes, after claiming to be a lineage-holding master teacher of Zen Buddhism, sums up the similarity between the Buddha's and Plato's teaching as, "they know the Self." If you know the Buddha's teaching, you know that one of Buddha's absolutely central teachings, the teaching which marked him out as distinct from his "Hindu" background, was the teaching of "anatman," viz. "there is no Self." It was an explicit denial of the capital S- self, which is the core teaching of Hinduism. Now of course there are ways to interpret things such that Buddha was asserting the Self by denying it, or by using a different vocabulary, but it's plainly tone-deaf to summarize the Buddha's teaching as "knowing the Self," as Grimes does here, with no further qualifications.
@schenectadynectar9971
@schenectadynectar9971 6 лет назад
Where's the Dialogue in heaven? no references even in noeticsociety
@Proseless
@Proseless 3 года назад
10:40 (timestamp for myself)
@killa3468
@killa3468 10 месяцев назад
Scary happy isn’t grace or calm or anything alike
@petera.9362
@petera.9362 5 лет назад
What does Pierre mean by the “self”? I have watched multiple interviews with him and still do not know. Is he referring to our unique, autonomous personalities, or to something that precedes and is distinct from our personalities (and which, therefore, allows for the development of them)? In other words, is he referring to what in psychology is called the “ego,” or to what in Buddhism is called our “original nature” (or “Buddha-nature”)? Similarly, although I do know what is meant by “the One” in Plato’s Parmenides, I do not know what Pierre means by the “One-Self.” Again, does this refer to an omnipotent / omniscient personality of some sort; to what in the West is thought of as “God”? Or does it refer to what in Buddhism is believed to be the non-duality of ultimate reality (in which case I would fail to see the necessity of emphasizing the “self,” as he repeatedly and emphatically does)? Is Pierre referring, in other words, to a conventional or a natural self (Self)-or to both? I think it important that some clarity be provided about these terms since they are so important to his message and work.
@jeongpyolee717
@jeongpyolee717 5 лет назад
here is crude idea. human daily conscious mind is like TV channel. it focuses on his language broadcast company(USA, Greek, India, Germany Japan-his born language-CNN,ABC, CCTV, NHK...). his subconscious mind is also almost bounded to his own forced by parent, teacher, national dogma. You see! That is not real HOLE WORLD and Universe. that is just one-side limitation or bias like The Cave-bounded story in Republic. In Republic, Socrates proclaim human have to free from his sensory or cultural(language, literal, national, religion every) dogma, train to have a OWN power of reason to pursuit Reality, Super Self, God, Truth(or whatever called in his culture). The main question in Zen is 'What is me(What be hidden in deepest my Reason, and Deep in Mind)?(Turn Backward your Light!)' This question is very pit Black, so difficult. Because it seems useless to daily sensory mind, so many plain person wouldn't even try to enlighten himself. But Buddha, Socrates see only that pursuit and seeing of True is true meaning of life. Truth cannot fully depicted by language, but dialog and Holy Books encourage person keep going to deep there(that Blacked source-there is true Happiness, Nirvana) with his daily action in the Life. That is crude explain.
@dustash1578
@dustash1578 3 года назад
@Peter A. The connection is to be found in the Hindu notion of Atman. The easiest way to explain it would be as G-d which can be thought as somewhat equivalent of the Buddha Nature in buddhism. Remember though that Buddhism was just a reaction to the Upanishads. The crucial thing to investigate is the relatio relationship between atman and brahman in vedic thought.
@dustash1578
@dustash1578 3 года назад
Frankly I think the notion of the simultaneously transcendent and immanent G-d is something Pierre might have missed. We are all parts of G-d giving birth to the All simultaneously, constantly reuniting the self with the Self, the experience with The Idea, Maya with Dharma. Looks into the works of Guenon for further insight. Remarkable expositor of vedic insight and synthesiser of all traditional wisdoms.
@Foreverandever431
@Foreverandever431 2 года назад
Watch his lectures from 1996 on neoplatonism. He covers these things. But remember the concepts are at the highest level of the cosmological structure so expect paradoxes, mystery and some confusion. I don’t think mysteries of the Self are as easily defined by the small human mind as an apple is.
@sacredgeometrymusic3290
@sacredgeometrymusic3290 6 лет назад
the thruth (aletheia, meaning hidden,secret,mistery) can't be revealed, because when you reveal what is hidden, is no more hidden. there aren't "fact" , in this sense, but the Self , as Pierre sais, is The Fact. You can't doubt about that.
@partlyparsley
@partlyparsley 6 лет назад
Actually aletheia does not mean hidden, secret nor mystery but rather the opposite of it( that which is unhidden, unconcealed) but i can see where you were going with it :)
@sacredgeometrymusic3290
@sacredgeometrymusic3290 6 лет назад
actually, if you go on a deeper level, the meaning of aletheia is something similar to the german "unverborgenheit", which, in fact implies some idea of something which is unhidden, but this something which is unhidden is hiddeness itself. I don't know how to put it in english, english sucks to philosophise IMO. As Nietzche once said, the best language to philosophize are sanscrit , greek and german. However , to use other languages I mean Hidden in italian which is "nascondere". Now, "nascondere" comes from latin "recondere" which means both to hidden something and to protect it , to keep it safe. In the same way you can't say "This" is true, or "This" is true, because "thruthfullness" is a state of mind which connects you to the true essence of self, which it can't really be putted in words. This is an idea similar to "hermetism", or "poetry" , or analogic thinkinking. You can say things in a way that both hide and reveals what you are saying. This is what plato does , for example, with his dialogues. He isn't saying "this is the thruth", he just want you to brings to experience the self by following his "Denkweg", the path of his thought. For this reason , Platos work is a Piece of art. Now, relating plato's approach to modern science approach you finally should see what I mean
@sacredgeometrymusic3290
@sacredgeometrymusic3290 6 лет назад
I would say this is all related with the art of midwifery, which need to keep "thruth" hidden and protect, in order for the pedagogic approach of the philosopher to be effective. I think is even the same meaning of deconstructionism
@jeongpyolee717
@jeongpyolee717 5 лет назад
Man have to be pregnant.(13:41) Wow! Hahaha:) Great Socrates! Let's produce True IDEA and Inner Innovation!
@DarkMoonDroid
@DarkMoonDroid 5 лет назад
13:07 Sexism aside, this is my problem. Many people have started to midwife me, but couldn't finish the job. Prolly a dozen times, I've been stillborn.
@DarkMoonDroid
@DarkMoonDroid 5 лет назад
18:00 And they like to argue for the sake of argument. Never taking an authentic and sincere stand on any point. Cynics. Trolls. And the post-modern non-position is thot to be new. That's one of the things that makes internet conversation so stupid now. These trolls think they're so smart and clever and they will not acknowledge that their positions have already been taken apart by the Ancients a thousand times. Back in the 90's, real dialog and conversation happened on the Internet. Watching it deteriorate has been one of the biggest tragedies of my life.
@DarkMoonDroid
@DarkMoonDroid 5 лет назад
@jay Because of the historical context and the fact that it is a separate issue.
@dan020350
@dan020350 3 года назад
👺 👌
@majidbineshgar7156
@majidbineshgar7156 11 месяцев назад
Interesting thank you very much indeed , however I wonder why Americans should pronounce Plato like " Play dough " ?
@MICHAELSTILLMAN
@MICHAELSTILLMAN 2 года назад
Understanding the Self is inadequate without Understanding the Relationship of the Self to the Institutions that Mold Him. Too often, Philosophers accept Institutional Agendas as is (Eg War Slavery Capitalism). These have a Great Impact on Human Happiness.
@MICHAELSTILLMAN
@MICHAELSTILLMAN 2 года назад
The above makes real Progress Impossible. Rather the blame for Anger Frustration is couched as a Personal Problem (not knowing yourself)
@Andrea-br4gv
@Andrea-br4gv 5 лет назад
Was Socrates jailed because he was trying to revolutionized the working men?
@lukajung9051
@lukajung9051 4 года назад
Check out the Meno
@Jbrady57
@Jbrady57 Год назад
A challenge to the Abrahamic religions? Oh please.
@user-yo9pv1ni6t
@user-yo9pv1ni6t 6 месяцев назад
stopping at 29:37 The Great Ideas, from western sages,,,I agree w Adler,, why would we even begin bringing in sages from the Orient??? when no one has yet taped into all the riches of Plato??? and we still have not trashed caned Aristotle as yet??? we have at least 1000 yrs to go, BEFORE we can get to the wisdom of the east. Plato is in dire need of exgesis, new studies. Yet it is apparent in a dis-society as ours is, that work will take some decades/centuries, See the problem is we live in a post modern, post industrialk, post atheistic dis functional disutopian dysfundction dis scoiety = Thus no progess can be made. = The words of the prophets will come to pass, God will destroy all civilizations and start anew. In the 1st decades of 2100, you will understand this post. Gnosis has no chance at a birth process, it will be death, destruction and judgements ahead, Gnosis can not come to birth in a infertile world. There will be 2 good things to come out of this destruction of nations, Christianity will be defunct and Judaism will also die a grusome death. Good Riddance to both evil cults. After these 2 culkts are dead, then Gnosis can be born. Gnsotic paul New Orleans I have no interest in modern philosophers such as Grimes.
@Xscott1000
@Xscott1000 6 лет назад
The assumption made concerning that Christianity is devoid of knowledge of self is completely incorrect and by the definition given and in this context is sophistry. One main aspect of the entire text is how the self that is given is the image of God - you may say an emanation. Also , the faith is not simply someone coming into an epiphany through the wisdom of the text which then transforms - it is an experiential knowledge of the reality of God. We experience God in very real ways which reinforces and confirms the truth within the wisdom texts. The texts themselves state clearly that without this direct experience of God , the scriptures cannot be comprehended and therefore are seen as foolishness to those who perish. These are the facts of the faith.
@havefunbesafe
@havefunbesafe Год назад
Nietzsche would disagree.
@mr.theodore6489
@mr.theodore6489 5 лет назад
I have studied the dialogues for 12 years, and see very little evidence of Plato. Plato is not the philosopher in the dialogues, the philosopher is Socrates. I give Plato credit for the seventh letter, only. He, Plato, sits on a throne that does not belong to him. For example, how can any reasonable person give credit to Plato for the story of Atlantis?
@DylanM379
@DylanM379 Год назад
Plato deserves his throne. He expresses his own philosophy THROUGH the Platonic Socrates of his writings (most especially in the so-called middle and late dialogues) who is not the historical Socrates, though the conversations the former has in the Socratic/early dialogues must have been fairly historically accurate regarding the latter's personality and method of enquiry. The Theory of Forms and the Art of Dialectic belong to the philosophy of Plato; they have nothing to do with the historical Socrates. As for Atlantis, which is mentioned in the Timaeus and the Critias, Plato uses this MYTH to show that a civilisation that embraces vice is eventually punished and brings about its own destruction. You cannot dissociate Plato from his own writings; if you truly enjoy them and know that they have something of value to teach us, the reasonable thing to do would be to respect the man who wrote them and stop disparaging him.
@Robb3348
@Robb3348 2 года назад
IMHO Grimes' take on the God of Abrahamic religions is shockingly and culpably partial. Culpable because he certainly knows of, e.g., pseudo-Dionysius, a Platonic Christian philosopher-mystic of around 500 CE, who vastly influenced Christian theology for centuries. IOW Dionysius was certainly in on the philosophical "knowledge" Grimes lionizes, yet also had Christian faith. The presumed dichotomy between faith (Gr. pistis) and knowledge (gnosis) or wisdom (sophia) is not as sharp as he makes out. It's easy to compare esoteric interpretations of Hinduism with the Christian superstitions of fundamentalist country yokels, and feign surprise when Hinduism comes out looking superior. But speaking of Alan Watts (and Grimes never loses an opportunity to bask in the reflected light of the much-more-famous Watts, one of Grimes' teachers), Watts didn't make such unfair comparisons; he admitted that if one consults sophisticated mystic-theologians of East and West, they sound uncannily similar. Hinduism has its country yokel versions too, and they come across as pretty similar to Christian superstitions.
@jonathangagne525
@jonathangagne525 5 лет назад
I LIKE EVERY1: GOOD IS, HIM, GOOD IS HER. GOOD IS GOD. GOOD IS GD. & G. & D. & O. ...
@tim13354
@tim13354 5 лет назад
So what did we learn about Plato, here?...Not very much...
@rkbroger6327
@rkbroger6327 4 года назад
Western civilization is based on Christianity not Greek philosophy!
@jackmabel6067
@jackmabel6067 4 года назад
And that's a shame.
@elsoil3387
@elsoil3387 3 года назад
@@jackmabel6067 Not sure if he was being sarcastic, but Pierre Grimes shows how Christianity, through Pseudo-Dionysius, forged Hellenic ideas into Christian metaphysics... Pretty fascinating: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Pf4KlHmpTY4.html
@davidusnazarus1700
@davidusnazarus1700 3 года назад
oh but its christianity that borrowed from plato. so it is based on twisted greek philosophy. and then westrn values come from christianity.
@rkbroger6327
@rkbroger6327 3 года назад
@@davidusnazarus1700 Where did the eschatology of Christianity come from-Judaism. Without the physical resurrection and the promise of Christ that he will save his followers from the total annihilation on the Judgement Day is the foundation of Christian and for that matter that of Islam. Jesus Saves! is the mantra of Christianity. Just look at the eschatology of all Abrahamic religions .Socrates preached not to take the revenge as soul cannot be destroyed, soul is NOT Jewish concept ,nephesh," the breath of life" is adopted as "soul". It is the physical body the true Self of human beings for Christianity, it is the physical body that will resurrect with warts and cancer restored, just as all the wounds of crucifixion were restored to resurrected Christ. This is Christ's promise when he returns. The whole Christian morality, ethics is based on this theology If you don't believe this then the whole Christian narratives doesn't make sense. .
@freethinker79
@freethinker79 3 года назад
"The Christian church is an encyclopedia of prehistoric cults" --Fredrick Nietzsche
@maxnordler7145
@maxnordler7145 4 года назад
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