Unfortunately, there are teachers who don't know how to tap into their potential, students who slowly lose appreciation of literature and parents who are none the wiser yet would pin it all on the teacher.
It's symbolic.. it represents that Cameron is tied to the rules and therefore framed by them; you can picture him as the weak one, he represents the conformists. You can clearly see that as he's reluctant to obey Mr. Keating, being the only one who questions his authority moreover.
As a poet myself, I also take offense to this introduction. Poetry isn't something you figure out like some math equation, it's putting your heart, your soul, your sense of humor, your grief, your love, your hate, your knowledge, your fantasies, and everything that makes you what you are and how you interpret the world onto the page. It's turning the blood in your veins into the ink you use to write it out. It's gluing your fingers to the keyboard until the finished work becomes the only solvent to release it. It's venting your life experiences in a creative way. It's art.
Hi, Jarrett! I´m a teacher and currently planning a lesson on poetry. Can I quote your comment? I agree with what you are saying and I would like to share it with my students. Please let me know if I have your permission.
The exercise on the school grounds where Mr. Keating had the boys march to their own beat. And Charlie told Mr. Keating that he is expressing his right not to march to who own beat. Brilliant.
In my high school American Literature class, the poetry book that we bought for the class also had a terrible introduction. So, we also ripped out the introductions of our books. Rest in peace, Robin Williams.
Good movies develop their characters. Great movies develop their audiences. I absolutely love the use of this same introduction passage at the beginning and end of the movie. In this scene, when we hear Neil read it for the first time, all we really see is a normal classroom learning the curriculum, and the explaination of poetry seems to make sense. After the movie has unfolded, we as an audience learn how to suck the marrow out of life and whatnot, and when Cameron (notorious fink) reads the very same passage aloud, we react to it completely different. It's not a lesson anymore, it's a cold, conformist deconstruction of poetry, and it goes against everything that poetry is. Additionally, having Neil read it the first time and Cameron the second time shows that the boys all began as submissive students ready to conform, and each of them grew to become true poets and reject the introduction, each of them except for Cameron (goddamn fink).
The difficulty with artistic romantic s is they can only live in their art not in their lives. I wonder if Robin Williams suicide was life imitating art. Did Williams recall this scene from the movie b4 taking his life? Thank you Peter Weir, Robin Williams and cast for a movie I put on par with Doctor Zchivago, Casablanca. An absolutely brilliant movie
Norman Lloyd said that at one point during filming that he just went through a divorce and was depressed. He was funny but he had demons that never got dealt with
When I saw this film at 14, I enjoyed it but I was not yet mature enough to grasp the full significance. Just watching a few clips on YT has made me realize how much this film touches on life. Now, at 38, I can't wait to watch this again soon, with new eyes.
+hawaiidispenser same with me. I watched it at 16, thought it was alright originally. 5 years after, I realised I had watched a truly great piece of film
It is interesting because so many college textbooks still have introduction chapters like "Understanding Poetry" that are soul-less and overly complicated. I usually skip over them. There doesn't need to be this strict model for every single subject.
In my experience, I have found english teachers - particularly literature teachers - to be some of the most inspiring and most passionate. I've walked out of lessons in awe at the depth of the human condition, and others on a note of euphoria. These teachers brought soul to the text but also knew the necessity of AO1, AO2, AO3.
+Dex Starr dude, you're paranoid! I hate feminism, but how was Charlie a feminist?? What about Knox? You have a problem with him as well? How dare he love a girl!
I realized something today: Dead Poets Society predicted the existence of Common Core in 1989. Common Core is the Pritchard essay discussed here. Robin Williams (Mr. Keating, "Oh Captain My Captain") is what all teachers should strive to be like. Truly let kids think for themselves and not try to fit into some cookie cutter image that the government wants.
Truly!! Yes! Yes! Because science shows us that children are born with an innate ability to think critically, reason logically, and use abstract thought for the solving of problems!! Yes! Yes! Let us use grammar for an example! Who needs rules like knowing the reasons for- adverbs, pronouns, conjunctions, verb tense, commas, ellipses... Who the fuck needs a large vocabulary?! I say let the kids think for themselves!!! I mean, do we really need grammar in our lives to communicate effectively?! Let the kids go home eat poop and sleep.
After 28 years i watched the movie again yesterday ... and I think too much freedom are being given to our students... it is time for more discipline! !!
A teacher like this is faithfully needed if we want to make a world of open-minded people . This movie is a masterpiece i like every single minute of it , and Robin williams was the perfect person in a perfect role...i feel the need to say thanks oh captain , my captain.
We need "open minded" teacher who can't stand the opinion of an author and ask his snowflake kids to rip off the pages? Marxist teachers already exist.
@@lifeisbetterwhenyourelax he is condemning marxist frauds like Mr.Keating.pretending there teaching how to be independent open minded thinkers.thats not what the left wing public school system in particular does.this is a private school and there is no reason to have a teacher there advocating ripping out pages that he doesn't agree with from an assigned text book.if I was the principal I would fire that commie in a second😐
There is great meaning in this scene. It challenges conventional thinking and the common assumption that our societal systems of 'natural selection of ideas' actually works well, or at least better than any other. As a teacher he is showing the pupils that they must learn to think for themselves and be willing to question anything, even a recommended school text. It also is the first sign in the film that Keating shows he is really at odds with the educational establishment that he works at (a very traditional, conservative one at that), which ultimately proves his downfall, but only in terms of his job. This is, I feel, the key point of the film. Do you accept the heavily compromised status quo, or challenge it when you feel it is wrong? Some see no point in challenging it (and may not even think it is wrong), seeing only selfish ends as the only sensible goals in life which any person failing to aim for is an idiot. These people hate people like Keating, whose primary aim is to teach his pupils to be masters of their own destiny and hence able to suck as much of the marrow out of life as possible. When the pupils rebel and stand on their desk in honour of Keating after his unfair dismissal, it is important to note that many of the students didn't do likewise. Some through fear, some through a lack of understanding or feeling no doubt. But this makes the movie more realistic and profound rather than some fairytale, happy-ever-after. It's a metaphor for life, about real people, us and them, you and me. We are far from all the same. His unfair dismissl also reflects an absurdity of real life, where often profits (school reputation) trump justice and truth. Ultimately, truth is power, but in situations where the majority view is distorted, then selfish money will tend to follow the distortion and thus be vulnerable to the truth. This is a part of the tragic story of humanity. Those who can see a better way, and want to help create it, often have to suffer the challenges from that which stands in their way. The boys in this film who sided with Keating had the innocence of youth on their side, which is always seen as dangerous to the establishment, who want to mould the children into their view of morality/behaviour (as in Pink Floyds Wall, 'we don't need no eduaction' etc.). It reminds me of a saying "The old learn through experience what the young know through instinct".
The line about "I like Byron, I give him a 42 but I can't dance to him" is actually a line from Mork and Mindy. Can't remember the exact episode... but there it was.
One of my very favorite professors in music school said something one day that tracks with Mr. Keating's approach: "Music doesn't 'mean' anything. It can inspire emotions, it can even be specifically composed to elicit emotions, but it doesn't have any real intrinsic meaning, nor can it communicate any real intrinsic meaning. No composer ever said to himself, 'Ugh, my girlfriend left me, so that's why this modulates to the relative minor here'."
My favorite actor too, a surprise for many when I answered that question with Robin Williams, like almost everything of his going back to Garp, think he should have been nominated and won an Oscar far before he did (this one deserved a win) as opposed to waiting for Good Will Hunting where he almost played a caricature of all the characters he'd previously played
When I was in high school, I created a bit of a scandal when I signed up for the remedial English class because I felt that the person relegated to that duty was the best teacher in the department. He was very much like Mr. Keating in this scene. I was so happy that my teacher was present at the release event for my first book of poetry and that I could honor him.
Loved this part and movie in general. Thank God none of those boys would be going to Hell for ripping out the whole introduction out of a textbook. Thank you Robin for helping to inspire us to not be afraid of being rebels at school. Rest in Peace good sir.
We already have enough left wing teachers propagandising and indoctrinating our children into marxist ideaology.robin Williams was extremely unstable and not a good role model for kids in real life😐
No commie teacher has the right to advocate ripping out pages of an assigned text book just becuase it doesn't match up with his leftist ideaology.if were the principal I would fire him in a heartbeat😐
I love this scene. And funny thing is, despite the math equation evaluation of poetry's greatness being clearly intended to be as soulless and foolish as possible, it's actually a pretty good way of breaking down a piece of art's quality. The most useful way to analyze art is to ask what reaction it creates in its audience and how it does that. An artist can figure out what their artistic goal is, then employ craft to accomplish that goal. This also allows us to learn from art with strengths outside the artist's original intent (death of the author). How valuable, universal, or timeless that goal is has a lot to do with the art's enduring greatness as well. An advertising jingle might be enormously effective at its goal (making the audience remember an advertising message) but most wouldn't nominate even the best advertising jingle as a truly great piece of music. None of this contradicts the teacher's main point either, the human race is filled with passion. This is what we stay alive for. Art makes us feel things, and creating art that gives people a wonderful experience they treasure forever is the enduring beauty of art.
I'm glad someone else recognizes this. Obviously the whole point was to get them to understand poetry at a deeper level, but intellectually and scientifically, Pritchard provides a good metric.
yeah, Mythological studies with an emphasis in depth psychology. almost everything from ancient Greek, dream interpretation and symbolism, king Arthur, archetypes, epics, ancient Egyptian to alchemy. Carl Jung, Sigmund Freud and Joseph Campbell
a masters/phd in mythology may sound overwhelming to some. but for me, mythology is one of my passions and this was one of the best academic experiences of my life! as John Keating said "Seize the day" mythologist Joseph Campbell said "Follow your Bliss"
In school my math was very low that along with science. Never understood it. My English and Grammar were off the charts and I had a IEP and in a Special Ed Class for certain subjects in my years of Grade School.
It's impossible to rate art objectively, that's one of the problems with that introduction. He is also teaching them to think for themselves, to feel as well as think, to realise that published books can be wrong, to understand that a teacher can be much more than a supplier of information/facts, that educational institutions and indeed all of society are flawed, that life needs to be grasped to make the best of it, that age can give us wisdom which younger minds in particular can benefit from, but that wisdom doesn't always flow from age, that good people can profoundly affect others, that there are often necessary compromises in life but that we need to find ways to live well and help move things forward, and that there is such a thing as society and love is the most important thing.
To simplify your comment,he was advocating censorship by encouraging ripping out pages from an assigned text book just because it doesn't happen to match up with his leftist ideaology.if I were the principal I would fire that commie in a heartbeat😐
it's awesome to see how when they ripped the intro out, you see the chapter "poetry part 1", almost as if to say the introduction is needlessly confunding, obscuring the true body of poetry
Great flick. Thank you. Poetry is especially effective at describing spiritual realities because the poet deals with emotions: the non-physical, spiritual side of life. - “The Place for the Poet,” Baha’i News, June 1989
I think I am the only poet in the known world to have liked Dr. J. Evans Pritchard, Ph.D. "Understanding poetry" text while watching the film. In fact, when Mr Keating said "Rip it out" I said "WHAT?".
I love that by the end of the film, McAllister would come around to Keating teaching methods, taking his students outdoors. Although he doesn't do it to the degree Keating does, it shows Keating's influence does not limit to students only.
I've taken to doing the same with my literature books and even taken to refusing to purchase books with commentaries of any kind unless I actually know the person, not because they have credentials glued to their name.
I aspire to be a teacher like this. Whoever taught us that life was in the binds of such restriction? There is an irony in “making a living” that we are taught. We already have life. Why do we merely observe ourselves in equation?
Its unworn flesh unblemished, the child knows nought; Of worlds of men and of those who’ve fought. Then, as youths, they conspire their fate; Their acts, their deeds they seek to emulate. Thus, young men pursue with unbounded profanity; Fearless intention with mis-founded sanity. Every move and turn made earnestly; To one end: their preconceived pre-destiny! Then, as steel-edged men with steely ambition; They seek their glory or else, perdition. Ag’ed now am I, and you would me shrive? Oh hear me please, I beg, oblige. Of this I speak with resigned finality; So tired am I of young men and their vanity.
Robin Willams’ “Mrs.Doubtfire” taught me that everyone whether being a dude or a lady that you can just about darn anything and it is all about the aspects of using humor and a casual sadding understanding later on. -NK
Much of the conception of poetry as useless comes precisely from how it is approached in schools. Poetry is something alive but in literature class it is generally shown as something cold and difficult, ready to be analyzed and to be "dissected" as in an autopsy.
Seems to me Pritchard made a simple argument - a recipe. Simple enough to be understood and mocked for it shallow crudeness, but it did offer the young a beginning on what to evaluate and how to express it. Williams says feeling is all, but feeling is not communication.
Pritchard is fiction, he's a caricature of literary analysis. A strawman to be shredded. But since he is based on real criticism, there is a grain of truth to his ideas.
+brett knoss The article below in The Atlantic may be a worthwile read. The words "anti-intellectual", "violent", "little opportunity for free thought", "- and to the degree that it unconsciously stands in for humanities pedagogy and scholarship, it does real damage" etc. occur. I think I felt this resentment when I first saw the film. Keating was a bad influence because he is working against fledgling attempts of critical analysis. Critical analysis is an important part och being able to think. www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/02/-em-dead-poets-society-em-is-a-terrible-defense-of-the-humanities/283853/
Leonard Ilanius yes I read it. It gets a little off talking about university funding, but makes some great points. I agree that Keating doesn't actually alow students to find their voice. Whenever someone answers a question they disagree with he never asks them to elaborate, or why they think that, or criticizes their argument. He goes "ding wrong" and then tells them his opinion.
J. Evans Pritchard is so opinionated and subjective in terms of understanding poetry to students! The Common Core standards should teach and explain the technicalities of poetry! Keating nailed it on point!
My bf and I were reading the 'joy of sex' well illustrated how-to book and we just decided to rip the pages up and just enjoy each other's love, warmth, pleasure and do whatever felt good without any special pre-conceived technique except one time he dislocated a shoulder trying a new position when we were in the tub.
Foreshadowing occurs when Cameron hesitates to rip out the introduction written by Dr. J. Evans Pritchard and has to be encouraged by Neil. Even when Cameron does such an act, he made sure the page was still salvageable by using a ruler! That notorious fink!
I recall this film well. This past fall I did just that. I ripped up my 2018 Government "Book of Drugs". Excrement! Be gone USA book of drugs! I'll tell the government the same thing if they ask. "This isn't the Bible" I won't go to hell for it. Felt pretty good too. Thanks for posting. R.I.P *O Captain, My Captain* Peace!
+Zana scarlet Yes, we can! In order to understand how good a poem is or the sensations provoked by reading it, we could apply Neurophysics, Psychology and/or powerful mathematical tools, but yet we'd be possibly missing the most important thing... :)
Very respectful to all readers to take away the pages in the front; not the middle, or 9 pages from the very back,...as someone did to a copy of Hannibal from the local library.
@Agustin Rodriguez: Robin Williams was actor, and he's died :( Robbie Williams is singer and he still live. Are you troll or only make mistake/mistape?
