Check out our video Hydraulic oil science. Base oils & Additives. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6DUC8sbVIzg.html&ab_channel=Messick%27sFarmEquipment
The problem started when dealership abused the price for a simple oil change is when the consumer started looking for alternatives and led to having many oil brands competing with dealer’s price tag.
Not much information for the every day farmer. Just a bunch of scientist type jargon instead of getting right to it and having a line of buckets and saying what each one is good for. Just line up the brands, and explain why it is good or bad and what it does best....simple. Please leave off the archaeologist seminar type of rambling. That was so boring and sounding like a sales pitch instead of letting us know what the title said.
The Kubota UDT for my bx 2380 is very light viscsity, almost like water. The NAPA brand HF I just bought is much heavier, like corn syrup. I've put the new fluid in the front axle but will buy Kubotas fluid for the transmission.
didnt get the info I expected from the video , Of course oem are the best and I use 90% of the time and always if possible . But there are times when a dealer is 50 miles from a jobsite and we have to finish . I expected to hear more about the differences in say an AW32 and a "universal" green bucket, udt, , udt2 , friction modifiers. Difference in hydro trans and gear oil recommendations etc . I like Neals videos but not this one
12 minutes of no real information provided on oil and lubricant classifications, what to look for spec wise when shopping for oil. Not all of us live close by a dealership so we depend on knowledge of products offered. It would have been nice to increase that knowledge base... this video fails to do that.
I have a 2018 kioti. 2 local dealers use 2 different brands trans/hydraulic fluid. I called to figure out what I should use and they both seemed like I was over thinking it. They couldnt tell me what kioti factory filled with, just what their shop used. One shop actually had different fluid if you bought per gallon or bulk line oil in their shop. The other dealer used wolfs head for everything. After a lot of back and forth, I flat out told them sell me what ever you would put in, and not void my warranty. And give me a receipt so I can prove I got it from the dealer when it blows apart. I get there's differences in qualities but it seems like most shops/dealers go with the lowest cost to them. I work at a freightliner dealer. Our bulk oil is not what comes factory filled in a Cummins or detroit engine or Allison transmission. But our bulk supplier meets all OEM standards so thats what we use. Same with gear oil. I imagine the tractor world isn't so different. I didn't see any pales there that said Kubota or new Holland. Just like kioti doesn't make it's own oil. The oil manufacturer makes the oil to the OEM standard. Because the OEM is basically using a culmination of different manufacturers parts to make up their tractor. Like they may source cylinders and pumps from other manufacturers so the oil needs to work according to those, not the brand of tractor. Sorry for the rant. Just a very unclear video. Usually they are really good, this one left everything just as confusing as it started
That's a pretty poor showing from your local dealers. This is why guys like Matt exist, to make sure dealers know what they're talking about when it comes to oils.
@@MessicksEquip let's be clear, transmission and hydraulic systems are not brand specific. Those systems are made by 3rd parties and they publish the proper specifications for fluid. It's the branded companies that keep it confidential/secret to make a profit on parts/consumables. They're aholes.
I dont think he answered the questions we really wanted to know. Im sure a lot of people buy the absolute cheapest THF they can buy, but most of us look for a quality product from an established brand. What about those brands, are they good? Are they compatible? Many companies are so "profit based" that they buy their fluids from an established brand, they don't change a thing, slap their label on it, and charge an extra $20 per container. So you end up paying more for the same product. What protective additives should I look for on the label? How do I know the additives are really in there? Why isn't there a regulative agency or certification process? This video basically says buy the dealership THF (which is also not regulated) or roll the dice, because you cant trust anybody else. I don't think that's a fair conclusion. I find it hard to believe that no other company sells a quality THF for a more reasonable price.
Fair or not, you've hit the nail on the head. With the total lack of regulation or published specification your options are buy the manufacturer branded fluid, or roll the dice. There are many quality fluids out there, but there is no way to know what's actually right for your machine.
The only reason messicks replied to this comment was the fact that you stated Buy the Manufactures THF or roll the dice. So basically there trying to place fear into a customer about buying someone else's THF rather than there's. Fear is a common tactic most businesses use in advertising there products especially when it comes to warranty and warranty work. I would say a dealer like kubota will ask a customer what kinds and brands of fluids they use and if you dont say Kubota Manufacturers recommended then they will not cover the warranty costs for repair. Plain and simple
It is a crime that the API does not have some regulations regarding Hydraulic Fluid. America and the World exist because of the Farmers and Ranchers feeding the World. We need to take care of the Farms and Farmers and their equipment.
Babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble for 12:14. I would say nice try guys but......I'll I heard was "You have to be careful". I'm just trying to find out if DTE 25 is the same as AW46. I did not "Understanding Tractor Hydraulic Fluid -WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW"
Pretty much all I heard was to go buy fluid from the manufacture of the model you bought! That’s like buying engine oil from a dealer when you can buy the same stuff cheaper at your local parts store!
There are standards, just not a single global standard.. mostly very specific to manufacturers design. Transmission might need to meet 3 or 4 specifications and variables to be compatible.
As I have stated before, my Kubota owners manual states specs for engine lube oil...you can use whatever brand you want as long as it meets the specs. However, it clearly says to use Kubota hydraulic oil. That to me says they have proprietary ingredients (additives) in their contract with Shell and Ashland. And again, I will say it’s really simple: It’s your tractor; do what you want.......
In most situations the manufacturer branded crap is just relabeled standard fluid. It's just an issue of finding out their secrets to make sure you're using the right stuff.
xephael - some truth to your statement. However, after working for Gulf Oil, Chevron USA, Sunoco, and PES, lube oil was made for many companies per contract. Some was the exact same lube oil from brand to brand, just different labels, but others were made with better base stock oil and additives. Just like gasoline, all gasoline is the same per API specs. Just the additive packages including detergents/fuel injection cleaners that are added at the local terminals change (along with mandated vapor pressure differences based on where you live). With this in mind, again Kubota says to use their hydraulic fluid, so I believe (again with no proof, but with 40 years of experience) that Kubota Fluid is made to their specs, so there is probably proprietary additives in their fluid that they desire probably from testing. Plus the fact that their UDT2 is synthetic vs. conventional. A lot of the less expensive hydraulic fluids are conventional. Just my $0.02..........
@@chuckquinn8026 yeah, but Kubota doesn't make the hydraulic pumps, lines, etc.. you can get synthetic fluid that meets or exceeds whatever proprietary brand/blend Kubota is recommending. Most of the information can be found on technical data sheets from fluid pump manufacturers, etc... If I was a wholesaler I could bring a quart of Kubota fluid to a competing petroleum producer for analysis and cloning for my no-name brand fluid, and everything would be fine. There is no magical sauce.
xephael - somewhat true, go ahead and let us all know how that worked out for you and what the lab charged you for their analysis of your sample. There is no guarantee that the pump model won’t change during a production run due to supplier issues, etc. The gear set teeth cut, clutches, even bearings can change. Nobody can state with 100% confidence that another hydraulic fluid is compatible with the Kubota transmissions. In the old days, whale oil was used...obviously equipment has changed drastically, and the fluids have to change along with it. As I said before, nobody cares what you put in your tractor...it’s your tractor. Nobody is twisting anyone’s arm to buy just Kubota fluids. If anyone wants to save $$, go to NAPA or TSC and buy whatever is available. All I am saying is I made lubes for 40 years, operated equipment up to 33,000HP, and we used a lot of different lube oils and hydraulic fluids. Some conventional, some synthetic. Different manufacturers demanded different fluids. A lot of it was foaming issues, heat, corrosion, moisture issues. The base hydraulic fluids can be drastically different. Add the additive package, and you have a different animal. You can’t compare two fluids at that point. Go to Chevron USA (which I worked for) website for example and look at just their selection of hydraulic fluids. Quite a few available not counting their custom blends. I could also drop off a sample of Kubota hydraulic fluid at my former employer and have it analyzed, but it won’t show everything you want to know. Even running a GC on it. What you really want is to find what additive package they are using, get a sample of that for analysis. That would be your golden ticket. Personally, I’ll just buy the UDT2, and change it per the recommendation. Not like I’ll be changing it on a yearly basis, maybe every 3-4 years.
@@chuckquinn8026 Kubota Super UDT2 Trans is made by Ashland/Valvoline. Sure I could find a comparible hydraulic fluid tomorrow that's not sold under that branding either from Valvoline themselves or another hydraulic fluid manufacturer. Additives like zinc are not special, and you can get an analysis done fairly cheaply now days. From Kubota manual... Super UDT-2 is a proprietary KUBOTA formulation that delivers superior performance and protection in all operating conditions. Regular UDT is also permitted for use in this machine. Ever heard of fear mongering for no good reason?
The amount of total BS in the Oil industry should be criminal. The market has a totally shielded the consumer from real science or information about the true composition and production sources of these products, from engine oils to UTF. If you think for a min that there is dozens of heavy industry plants pumping out dozens of different grades, composition, qualities and flavors of UTF you would be incorrect! These productions runs would not be manageable or profitable if the products had to be that diverse. I cant tell you what UTF producer ends up with what labels or prices on them. However I would bet a large sum of money on the fact that the same product in many cases will see 15 different brands labels with crazy price variation. Come on Messick’s I like your videos but lets be real here! Support Tractors, tractors owners but don't support the BS of the snake OIL sales guy! Stock the brand products if you like but stop with the fear tactics! "Tractor sounds right in the morn but is making all kinds of noice in the afternoon" because you put shell UTF in it instead of MasterTran! Said the dealer to the product rep! Get real! Think about this when the dealer is telling you that the "double the price UTF is the only way to go or else", most the manufactures in the compact market don't even make the tractor! I bet there are tractor parts in our compacts built in factories with dirt floors because it was cheaper. Don’t worry though because we hold the highest possible standers for fluids for your made by who ever tractor.
Yep, check the specs for the type of oil / fluid and start comparing. Not long ago I found a replacement fluid for my tractor for a little less than half the price of what I'd been using with equal specs or better. Found Sinopec 10w30 GL-4 tractor brake hydraulic fluid tried it out and dog gone I've never before lifted the whole rear end of my tractor off the ground flat footed but this fluid did, so there is a difference.
The transmission hydraulic fluid should all be the same because tractors are always exchangeing oil. All brands should use the same Oil. If you have more then one tractor. Then when a attachment is used with different tractor.
Equipment manufacturers are the jackoffs in this scenario. Oils, additives, everything has standards and specifications... they're refusing to publish them! Specify the standards the system is designed for!
It's been said over and over but bears repeating. If you paid a lot for you hardware don't cheap out on fluids. It costs less than one payment to replace all the oil and filters on my tractor with factory brand stuff.. A false economy to go less expensive on this stuff.
Too much generalization and subjectivity. Next time bring in "competitive" products and discuss the features and benefits objectively in a fact based presentation. By not doing this the viewer walks away assuming the product isn't any better than others and the pitch didn't provide anything of substance because there were no specific benefits.
What an awfully pathetic waste of way time. Messicks has really let me down on this one. Starting to think maybe they’re just as bad as all the other guys. If Neal really cared about his customers he would have not even bothered to publish this waste of time video…
Check out our updated video Hydraulic oil science. Base oils & Additives. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6DUC8sbVIzg.html&ab_channel=Messick%27sFarmEquipment
liquid money for the manufacturers and dealerships. Every manufacturer has their own secret sauce and they make it seem like if you don't use their stuff in their machines all hell will break loose and they sure as heck won't stand behind it if you do. Everybody is too afraid to take a chance so we buy into it. Seems like it would be very easy for everybody to adopt the same standards but wheres the money in that? Its a ripoff, kinda like printers and ink cartridges but MUCH more expensive. Thanks a lot. I just spent $500 at the local Kubota stealership on filters and fluids for my L3130 HST and I'm still a little hot. Feel sorry for the guys that have the stealership do it, must be a small fortune.
@@MessicksEquip I did and no it wouldn't. They sold me the filters for the same as what you guys would (about 200 for oil, hydraulic, hydro, air and fuel). It was the 12.5 gallons of UDT2 for about 300 that was the real panty wadder. Couldn't get that from you because of the shipping to FL would have been as ridiculous as the fluid itself. Oh well, that will be the last time that machine will need a hydraulic change in my lifetime. I've enjoyed and learned a lot from many of your videos but I HATE to pay too much for anything.
I only have 2 BX tractors, a 2010 BX 2360 and a 2020 BX23s. So my tractors don't hold so much fluid, but no matter how much I need I'd rather use what fluid the manufacturer recommends. That way if something goes kaput I have Kubota to blame. If I use some off the wall crap I only have me to rag on. One thing I did change is not to use UDT fluid in my front axles I use 80-90 weight gear oil, the UDT just seemed a bit too light.
I recently changed the hydraulic fluid and filters in my 2003 Kubota M6800 with Tractor Supply's Traveller Premium Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid. My tractor holds just over 10 gallons of fluid so it cost me around $80. If I would have bought the Kubota brand synthetic fluid it would have cost several hundred dollars. I mowed, tedded, raked and baled 6 acres of hay with no unusual noises or any difference in performance that I could notice. Has anyone had any issues using TSC's fluid after extensive hours of use?
I have listened to the video and read all 182 comments and here is my two cents on the matter: Tractor manufacturers are designing their equipment to take their proprietary fluids. This is partly due to giving the machine better performance but it's also designed to lock you into buying all the fluids and filters from them. This is why you must factor in the operating costs before purchasing the machine/brand.
I have to do the first service in my BX23s , I came here to learn..........Nothing. I did learn one this guy stated it very Cleary his products are not certified by anyone . Your Videos are mostly very helpful ???????
I have never seen an "information" video with as many negative-even angry- viewer comments as this one. And what is wrong with Neal? He sure looks nervous and downright goofy. Never seen him look like this before.
Sounds like dealer scare tactics to me. Buy from us or else. I agree that you shouldn't buy the cheapest fluid from the box store, but what's to guarantee the tractor branded fluid is any good? Or even consistent year over year? Some new VP as a cost cutting measure might buy a boat load of inferior fluid and proudly put Brand x logo on it. Brand X might even intentionally sell an mediocre fluid as part of their designed obsolescence plan. Brand X might want you to buy a new tractor in 10 years. As long as it makes it out of warranty it's good enough. How do you find the truly superior fluid? Again I'm talking premium fluid, not bargain fluid.
Roger Fries that was kind of my thought. I was once told any oil is better than no oil. Granted I know that has its limitations but it’s my opinion that keeping the right type of fluid fresh will do more for you than just running max hours on a given brand name. You’re still taking them at their word and it’s not good for a whole lot. I’m sure most of them aren’t going to do an oil sample when you take one in to do warranty work and if their oil was the only one to run them they probably would. Bottom line I think it’s debatable both ways. I do think the safe bet is brand x fluid for brand x machine but who’s to say what’s better. It would be nice to see some standardization but I don’t see it happening if they can keep calling theirs best.
The same oil goes in new tractors and old. if a manufacturer rolled the dice, it could have catastrophic consequences on their warranty claims. An extra 10 bucks on a bucket of oil compared to a transmission repair ?!?!?!
I have found the manufacturers brand of oil really what you should use two words that do not ever go together. GOOD AND CHEAP! Good oil is not cheap to buy but it will work like it’s supposed to put cheap oil in and it’s hell on the working parts of the tractor and will cause failure. And that will cost you way more than a cheap drum of oil
Are you sure it is $10/Bucket? Is that Bucket 1L? You saying that it is $40 extra to use in M135GX. I would use Kubota oil or Even Kubota Approved oil. Kubota UDT2 (at dealer) is like $8.6(USD)/L(litres) or $31.82/Gal MORE with my Brand X THF(10-30W Transfluid) here in Australia. At level of $8.6/L if i need to change my M135GX(500hr) or M125X(400Hr) ~ 65L which will = $559 per difference in fill, If i use 1000Hr a year. that is $1198/Yr in additional cost. Brand X has a warranty on their oil which will cover any damage cause by their oil in your machine. Another good example is Kubota UDT2 - $3200/205L = $15/L Made by Valvoline (Australia) According to Kubota SDS Valvoline Farmplus Hydratrans - $151.99/20L = $7.59/L Recommend Oil by Valvoline Australia Lube Guide for M135GX. Kubota Part guy face screwed up when he told me the Kubota UDT2 prices. Say look else where. That is the best he can do on the price. I do hope Kubota Australia drop their price on oils like they did with their Oil and Fuel Filter recently. but not Trans/Hyd filters and Fluid. If you WANT your customer to use your oil and filters, bring it down to similar or just a bit more ie 20%(maybe 30%) then aftermarket oil and filters instead if 200% difference. You wandering people don't use Kubota Oil and Filter. Since the price drop in Oil and Fuel Filters, I have now bought original filters. As they only $10 more then OEM filtres. Just had a look at you prices for UDT2 - $103/5Gal. That is far cheaper then Australia Kubota UDT2 at $270/5Gal(eqv). I think it would cheaper to ship the UDT2 to here from you with shipping cheaper then buying it local. Ever thinking about opening up a dealership or branch in Australia? You will make a massive killing in profit here! No kidding!
To be clear, I'm not talking about cheap oil. I want the best possible oil. I'm just not convinced house brand oil is the best. Perhaps Orange brand oil is the absolute best product, but that does not mean red or green oil is any good at all . I want my tractor to live forever or at least longer than me, I'm not convinced the manufacturer or dealer really wants me to not buy another tractor. According to this video there is no way to know good from bad oil which also means there is no way to tell if tractor branded oil is any good either. I'd like to see some proof. I hate fear marketing.
Just dumped 5 gallons of TSC fluid into a into a 7265 cub cadet also know as a 2615 mahindra both companies claim to only use there product tractor has 600 hours on it Change hydro fluid every 200 hours it runs fine
I'm willing to bet (I am betting since this is what's going into my tractor) that TRIAX Agra UTTO Supreme Universal Full Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic Transmission and Wet Brake Oil, is twice the quality of what you sell, for the same or less the price than your oil.
You know whitoit knocking your oil down I will say this: you said that anyone will feed you crap to sell their oil, but you essentially did the same thing and while you said that , in a way, that all other oil is worthless, you is your is the better. Watch you viseo and tell me how you did not do that!
So what is a high quality brand? Can I assume the tractor manufacturer brand is best for my tractor? Are machines that much different that a Kubota tractor shouldn’t use an AGCO fluid or vice-versus?
He didn't say it here, but these guys typically will recommend that you run John Deere oil on a John Deere tractor, Agco oil in an Agco tractor, etc. He doesn't shove his product into the wrong application just to sell it.
So if the tractor says NH on it, the best bet is for the pail to also say NH on it? NH fluid is better than the same grade JD fluid in a NH tractor? I'm not sure I buy that. Yes, either is better than NAPA or Car Quest or Tractor Supply or is that even true? I've never used it but I've heard that Shell Rotella is as good as anything else out there. sdh in CT
Rotella is a very highly regarded engine oil, There's an engine oil video coming. That's different, there are specifications there. Yeah generally the recommendation we would give is that you use the hydraulic fluid intended by the manufacturer. You're taking a much greater risk there, then you are in the engine.
Bad job I thought I was going to learn about the fluid as it relates to the various drives and transmissions. What you covered in this video could have been done in two sentences. The only good question you asked the guest had no answer. Definitely a do over.
Rebuilt the final drives and brakes on my 3010 John Deer and paid good money for Deer THF just for the piece of mind of compatibility. Did a filter and fluid change also.
I agree with most people on here. 1. The bald guy put me to sleep everytime he opened his mouth. 2. I am not going to stop work run to a dealer miles and miles away when a TSC, or Rural King is down the road. There has to be oil Kubota, Deere, Cat, and others can say are good oils to put into a machine. I refuse to slap Kubota brand stuff into my machine always and forever. I'm sure these oils are tested by someone, so someone can weigh in on if a oil will do the job.
I think the issue Matt was trying to get across, is that if it's not the OEM oil, no one really knows what it is as there is no specification or standards. There are some great oils out there, but there's really no way to know. Fundamentally the only company that cares about your tractor, is the manufacturer.
Why would a manufacturer be concerned about providing a superior oil? Isn't it in their best self interest to have that machine wear out so they can sell you a new one?
Thanks fella's for looking out for the everyday consumer. This was very informative you get what you pay for. On the same note its like buying a Kubota compared to a John Deere, in my opinion John Deere is better just my personal opinion.But others may dispute that so be it. Hey thanks again keep the video's coming~~~
Rotella HD is the gold standard by far. The only other THF I’d consider is John Deere Hy-Gard or Delvac. Stay clear of private branded fluids sold at Tractor Supply, Atwood’s, Rural King, etc. I also like Rotella T5 diesel engine oil and Rotella ELC coolant. Do it right the first time.
Check out our updated video Hydraulic oil science. Base oils & Additives. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6DUC8sbVIzg.html&ab_channel=Messick%27sFarmEquipment
We run hydraulic fluid from TSC it's way cheaper and we have never had a issue with any of our equipment. They just want you to buy OEM fluid so they make more money
Great video as always and especially timely for me. I do have a question that perhaps you can offer some guidance on. Is VG 46 hydraulic oil the same as 20W hydraulic oil? From online research, it seems that ISO VG46 is about the same viscosity as 20W, but I am not 100% sure. I am a bit low for my tractor and want to add but want to make sure it is the right one. Per my owner’s manual (tractor is a 15 year+ Snapper (my understanding is it is actually a PowerKing sold under Snapper nameplate) with only just over 300 hours use with a Peerless 2500 transaxle and Eaton Model 11 pump) it says to use VG 46 hydraulic oil in one place and in another place in the owner's manual it states to use 20W hydraulic oil or 30W on older machines with worn parts. Given the low hours and good condition of the tractor, it seems 20W is the right one, assuming that is also VG 46 equivalent. In addition, from Eaton’s website, I found their technical Bulletin 3-401 for recommended fluids and cleanliness for Model 11 which stated: “The preferred fluid viscosity is the same as that specified by SAE 20W-20.” My local Tractor Supply had a Mystic brand ISO 46 hydraulic fluid that I just purchased but have not added to my tractor yet under the assumption it is 20W equivalent. The back label on the Mystic brand specifically said can be used on Eaton pumps. Any advice would be appreciated.
There seems to be a lot of confusion over the information in this video. Perhaps I can share something that will help. I’ve been an automotive technician for 21 years. I see some disturbing patterns with customer perception of lubricants. The worst is brand loyalty. If you want to be loyal to a brand, buy shares in the company. The brand that you like may not make a lubricant suitable for your application. The information on the front of the container is almost meaningless when determining application. The vehicle manufacturers engineers will decide what the make up of the oil should be and then produce a specification #. They will then work with a ( usually 1) oil company to produce it. That is the only product that the manufacturer will stand behind. Look for that product, with that specification # on it. That one product may not be widely available. I repair engines and carbon clutch differentials weekly, that should never need to be touched. Sadly, oversight on lubricant marketing in the U.S. is almost nonexistent. Some equipment have very specific lubricant needs, others do not. Most if not all modern engines, transmissions and driveline components have specific needs that cannot be met by just any oil. When you consider the repair or replacement cost of a hydrostatic transmission, gambling with oil specifications just isn’t worth the risk.
