Motorways near me are mainly “smart” motorways and 4 lanes. Regularly you’ll get people sitting in lane 3 or 4 lane hogging at 55 to 65 with no intention of moving over. I’m more than happy to sit in lane 1 and undertake them all day, I’m not doing a 7 or 8 lane change manoeuvre to pass a lane hogger when I have a buffer of 1 or 2 empty lanes between me and them.
@Ashley Neal forgot to mention that one can undertake a car in lane 3, if lane 1 and lane 2 are empty and you are in lane 1 (i.e. one clear lane between you and a car).
Likewise. And if you were to overtake the twerp sitting in Lane 3 (on the 4-laner), they never seem to get the hint when you move back to lane 1 once you've passed them.
Undertaking doesn't have a grey area. It's the same as overtaking. All this bull shit "slow moving, congested, if the vehicle in lane 2 has indicated to turn right, on a one way street" bla bla bla is only advise. Yet nobody can say what speed does slow moving become not slow moving.
Undertaking is often the result of lane hogging. We need to solve the lane hogging problem so undertaking is not even a thing. Lets cure the cause, NOT the symptom
Undertaking in the free flowing dual carriageway/motorway situation that is. You will still need to undertake traffic waiting to turn right, on one way systems, etc. The term applies to a lot of different situations, as Ashley mentioned, that are perfectly safe and necessary for traffic to flow around towns and cities. Lane hogging does need to be solved, not disagreeing there at all. Without it the most dangerous forms of undertaking wouldn't be possible in a majority of cases.
On M5 I've seen a nice text on many an overhead and side-road displays: "KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING". Hope one day hoggers will understand what this means..
I don't think it's fair to say that people are undertaking when there's someone in the outside lane with no obvious intention of moving back to the left. At that point you have no option to overtake so all you can really do is either sit behind them, slow down so that you won't pass them, or pass on the left. It's not really fair to tell someone to sit behind that person (if, for example, they're not doing the speed limit - provided the conditions are good of course), and it's not fair that they could be penalised for passing them.
@James Stewart Me either but I'm thinking of examples like the clip Ashley showed at about 7:40. I wouldn't necessarily class that as an undertake since there was no change in behaviour/positioning from either car, but I'm also not an expert.
I was disappointed Ashley didn't address this point better. It's not reasonable, realistic nor required to allow a single lane hogger to act a rolling road block for an entire motorway, especially if they are travelling under the speed limit. I have been told before as long as you're not changing lanes (aka weaving) to overtake somebody on the left there is no issue. If you simply maintaining your lane causes you to pass them on the left, the issue is with that person, not you (because it shouldn't be possible!)
@@ryanmitcham5522 Yeah I always thought that undertaking involved changing lanes, e.g. If I was in the right lane, moved to the left to pass and then came straight back to the right lane. But in a couple of Ashley's clips (like the first one, and the clip mentioned above) the vehicle that he says is undertaking is simply maintaining their speed and position. I'd say that's safer than slowing down to avoid undertaking altogether.
@@keith6400 as I understand it, "undertaking" is moving to the left to pass a vehicle in front (the opposite side to "overtaking"). Maintaining your course in a lane to the left of a vehicle in front, and then passing that vehicle to the left of it is "passing on the left".
I don’t care what anyone says but if some knob jockey is doing 60mph in the outside lane of a 70mph duel carriageway then I’m sticking to the inside lane and proceeding at 70mph.
Recently on the 4 lane stretch of the M3 where it's a smart motorway. Lanes 3 and 4 are busy, with flow of traffic speeds seeming to range between 65 and 90mph. Lane 2 has some vehicles in them, mostly going 55-75mph. I'm in lane 1, which seems to be all but empty as if people now have an aversion to ever want to use that lane of the smart motorway. If I wanted to overtake a car in lane 2, I'd have to come over and then speed up to slice in to lane 3 and match the flow of traffic, causing me to increase fuel consumption when I'm trying to preserve fuel given prices these days, then overtake the vehicle in lane 2, then come back in and cut back over to lane 1 if I was wanting to drive properly and continue with proper lane discipline. To me it just feels safer to just stay in lane 1, watch for any cars coming into lane 2 that may look like they will want to use lane 1, and even flash those in lane 2 to let them know they can come over, and then undertaking when they seem to have no intentions to want to move into lane 1. It's a shame that undertaking has to be the issue we discuss rather than properly policing lane hogging and not teaching proper lane discipline.
Agreed. Lane-hogging is the root cause of "undertaking". It's the lane-hoggers who need dealing with. Excessive lane-hogging should result in points and a fine.
@@dfar2303, the force you want actually exists, it will be your area’s “Traffic” section, round my way called the Roads Policing Unit. Unfortunately, due to all the cutbacks in the public sector, twixt 2011 & 2018 a total of 55,000 approx Police jobs were lost in cutbacks, 20,000 of them front line jobs, (thanks Darth May), and while BoJo has promised to re-recruit the 20,000, they still have, a) more paperwork to do due to fewer specialised backroom staff, & b) a higher workload due to the cutbacks in other sectors, not in the least Mental Health, which regularly takes up a lot of Police time:- priorities aside, Police are the only emergency service that cannot say no! (The priorities mean they Can say not yet, so if you were burgled you might not get a visit for hours because there’s fights, robberies etc in progress, thus a higher importance to the public as a whole.)
This is where you get shafted as a lorry driver. 3 lane road (motorway or wherever) and as a lorry, you can't use lane 3 either because motorway rules or width restriction, cruise control on 56mph (max speed allowed for HGVs), brain dead driver sitting in middle lane going 50. What do? Or another one. Cruise on 56mph, car goes past, then slows down, then accelerates, then slows again so you undertake. Then speeds up again. Or i move to middle lane to overtake slower car, then he speeds up, then slows down, then right as i'm about to clear him speeds up again. I look a pillock sitting in the middle lane seemingly unable to pass for ages so then multiple cars undertake me. The icing on the cake is the driver in left lane who sees me in truck catching up behind them AND MOVES TO THE MIDDLE LANE. Undertaking is one of those ones where you know its wrong, but in some scenarios the only other option is to either sit behind them, sit in the left lane and follow the rules, creating a bottleneck or blockage if its 2 lane, or just undertake. Its also why i sorta feel that car drivers, like lorry and bus drivers, should receive mandatory yearly education. You can pass at 17 and drive for the next 50 years never bothering to learn anything again, never being checked for competency. Its wrong.
Personally, I try to be fully aware of the rules and capabilities not just as they apply to me as a car driver but also as they apply to other road users such as pedestrians, cyclists, buses, trucks. Just as you described, there are situations where the rules of the road are slightly different for different classes of vehicles therefore each vehicle class would behave slightly differently in the same circumstances. Being aware of these differences helps me better understand what I should be expecting from other road users around me and what they might be expecting from me too. Roads are potentially deadly places to be - even in stationary traffic. So we should all do our best to co-operate rather than compete with each other
@@TristanSilverwood Yes, I agree. My list of other types of road users wasn't meant to be definitive! Here in Merseyside, there are many roads that have a speed limit of 20mph that are part of public bus routes. While nearly all buses have automatic gearboxes, there are still gear-changes made. For many buses, that gear-ratio means that the gear-change is at about 18mph. Road speed-limits of 20mph have usually been imposed relatively recently and so pre-date the designs of the bus's gearboxes. So quite often, I've found, that I'm following a bus that is travelling between 15-18mph - usually downhill - because the driver is trying to avoid the gearbox from constantly juddering between gears and causing an uncomfortable journey for passengers who might be standing up. Just one of many examples of how other classes of vehicles might need to use our shared roads.
A few years ago I was working in Halifax, travelling there on a Sunday evening from Shropshire. There is a section of the M62 which has 4 lanes and, almost every week, there were vehicles travelling in lane 3 whilst lanes 1 and 2 were completely empty. I used to continue in Lane 1 as I didn't see why I should have to make 6 lane changes to pass them. Also I didn't do this to get ahead of them in their lane (which is what I consider undertaking to be) but continued in lane 1 until there was traffic that I needed to overtake in the traditional manner. There is a law against lane hogging but it appears to be never enforced and that is what causes most of the problems. Interesting video, though, and thanks for educting me :)
Interesting comment, and I’ve always shared that view about undertaking. In my mind there is a big difference between deliberately passing on the near side in order to push in front of someone (big no-no), and simply passing by in your own lane at a higher speed. I guess you are still being careless if you allow yourself to be in someone’s blind spot, where they could start moving over and not see you.
The Heathrow stretch of the M25 is no different. There's a section with 5 lanes where you have trucks in lane 1, lanes 2 and 3 clear and a battle for position going on in lanes 4 or 5 (usually with someone in lane 5 doing 65mph). It can be far less stressful to just sit in lane 2 and cruise on by. A game some colleagues and I occasionally played with middle lane drivers was to overtake correctly, move back to lane 1 and slow to allow them to overtake and then repeat. The game being to see how many times you could orbit them before they noticed!
I was on that very stretch of motorway a few months back and knowing it seems to be bad for lane hoggers, was really pleased to see the VMS was displaying 'Keep Left Unless Overtaking' - something I wish we did a lot more. And it made...absolutely no difference. I was flabbergasted that at a fairly quite time, with all the space in the world to move left I saw multiple lane hoggers at different points were driving past the gantry saying that...and still sitting in lane 3 when 1 and 2 were completely empty. I previously thought that perhaps lane hoggers weren't really concentrating and/or just didn't really think, or perhaps didn't even know that was the rule and so the message sign would be helpful to inform/remind/wake up those drivers. When I saw them just carry on past the sign like that I wish there was a way I could talk to them to find out what their thought process is and what they think the signs means!
If you think about it, you won't get stopped for it, because there obviously isn't a police car moving the lane hogger over. I don't understand though, how some people seem to think that it would be OK to sit in lane 3 as long as you are at the speed limit. My question would be... but why would you want to? It means you have to move across 2 lanes to get there and move across 2 lanes to exit. If you have an emergency you also have the central reservation barrier to drive into, or cross two lanes to get to the hard shoulder. I remember a guy once who said he always drives in the middle lane, because if he had an emergency, he would have a lane either side he could swerve into...😱 Two lanes full of other people to side swipe... rather than a verge or hard shoulder... The mentality astounds me.
@@adamedwards4839 If you are in any other lane apart from lane one and are not overtaking another vehicle then you are in the wrong lane, if you are in lane 2 or 3 and the lanes to your left are clear then you are lane hogging, try having a look at the Highway Code.
I think that as long as it is done properly and without any malice it’s fine to undertake, especially middle lane hoggers. I have only undertaken once or twice in 2 years that I have been driving. Usually see it happen on the motorway where people join and dive straight to the last lane without having accelerated properly and cause near crashes, now that I’d consider malicious
@@mikehunter2844 Did you actually listen to what he said in the video? It's very simple. Doing it CAN be dangerous, or it can be done safely. So, if it looks dangerous to you (or to a 'competent driver'), then doing it would be classed as careless or dangerous driving. The act of undertaking is not in itself illegal, it's the circumstances in which it is done and how, that makes it so.
@@another3997 He said Quote " Undertaking is not only singularly classed as careless driving...." (He didn't say it may be, or might be or could be) If that was the case then it would be illegal. Its allowed on any road in UK that has more than one lane in your direction, and doesn't have to be in congested traffic. Did you know careless driving is illegal in UK? Undertaking is not. I'm beginning to think you don't know what "undertaking" means.
@@another3997 And BTW if you had played more attention you would have noticed where Ashley said, again Quote "Lane hogging is dealt with in the same way as undertaking is. ie. Under the careless driving blanket" In other words and for you to understand, he's saying both are illegal. Don't be commenting until you read, observe and know the facts, boy. Remember this :- Undertaking is NOT illegal, Lane hogging IS. So they are NOT under the same bracket.
@@mikehunter2844 Yes, and no, they are dealt with under the same prosecution classification, in other words, if prosecuted BOTH are prosecuted as Driving without due Care and Attention. That does NOT state whether either or both are illegal or unadvisable. It is simply stating that they are both classified when prosecuted under the same bracket legally. THAT is what he was saying, people need to brush up on their basic comprehension skills. Like taking the context of the entire video into consideration when watching it, given that he had stated (correctly) that Undertaking is not itself illegal but CAN be prosecuted under some circumstances. So it appears that perhaps you yourself may want to pay more attention..... Especially to context.
In the context of middle lane hoggers, personally I feel as though it can be safer to undertake, than double lane change to overtake, in situations where it’s clear that the middle lane driver has no intention of returning to the left lane. But, very interesting and useful to see the potential consequences if you are deemed to be undertaking carelessly/dangerously - something I’ll definitely now be taking into account!
@James Stewart I would hope not either, as it seems the emphasis of any potential prosecution would be based on the carelessness/dangerousness of driving in general, not necessarily the act of undertaking itself. But the video does highlight the importance of absolutely ensuring that if you are undertaking, it is done so safely. As the consequences of committing to an undertake that turns out to not be as safe as first anticipated, seem potentially far more extensive than I'd imagined.
Undertaking is ONLY a problem when done dangerously, its not about when you are 'allowed' to do it, its NOT a driving offence to undertake! If you can pass on the left safely then there is no legal reason why you can't and the police cannot just slap you with without due care just because they don't like it. I will and do pass police vehicles on the left, I get the vast majority think its illegal and a big no no and you then have people like Neal trying to say its not illegal but...... And then trying to cloud things to the point of doing what he 'thinks' you should.
*3.56* Four lanes in heavy traffic at around maximum speed. Any driver with any cop on would never even attempt to move from lane one to four then back again. Any driver who thinks it's safer to do so is fooling themselves.
@@johnb8956 On a learner test, it has to be transparent across the country. Where I am, I take all my students on the motorway as we literally pass it daily but some big areas of the country don’t have motorways so the Test has to be the same no matter where you take it.
You would think that but it's not complicated, the motorway is just a dual carriageway with another lane tacked on essentially. Stay left unless overtaking... the rules are clear, no amount of teaching or training can drill through a thick skull.
@@khalidacosta7133 it's also a dual carriageway without traffic lights pelican crossing, cross junctions, motorcycles under 50cc, cyclists, pedestrians etc. You should be able to master this easily.
@@Back4RoundTwo Then you'd have to ask yourself why someone would be in the overtaking lane and not crossed back to the left hand lane should that be clear? I know a few people who have been charged recently for sitting in the overtaking lane when the Left was clear, even then if they were doing the speed limit and you were also doing the same speed you shouldn't be able to pass them nor catch them up
Recently got stopped for undertaking - granted I was speeding so stupid me, but didn’t realise that simply going past drivers to my right was undertaking, even without pulling out in front of them. I was lucky and got let off by the officers.. made me come here and aim to understand more about the rules. Very helpful, thanks.
The whole point of videos like this is to help better inform people who wish to improve their driving knowledge and competence. Well done for wanting to improve your own skills as opposed to many motorists who take the easy option and just moan about other drivers.
"Eduction is a process in which the Earth's crust spreads sideways, exposing deep-seated rocks." Drivers going sideways is very apt, given the current climate.
I genuinely don't gey the argument of undertaking is bad as "people don't expect you to pass on the left so might move into you" because you should be checking your damn mirrors!
For the people who say that people don't expect you to be coming up on their left hand side or are less likely to check their left I wonder do they have any backup on this? They just say that because somebody told them. Ask them themselves do they check to their left. You know what they'll say.
Ashley, you said "You can prosecuted for other offences if you undertake". All the years Ive been driving I have never heard of that. Can you describe those offences.
@AlZheimer-hs8wi Driving without due care and attention is a subsection of careless driving. To be prosecuted for undertaking the police have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the standard of driving fell well below the standard expected from a safe and competent driver. Undertaking alone does not fall into this category.
@AlZheimer-hs8wi Undertaking classed as Careless Driving or Dangerous Driving? What highway code says that or are you saying that because Ashley said it.
So ...... pretty much as I thought. Not illegal but, as with everything in life - a time and place where it is ok to pass on the left. Thanks for the clarification Ash. Stay safe everyone 👍
If its not illegal, how and why does Ashley mention "driving with undue care or dangerous driving"????? It is illegal, except in certain circumstances - you have to be doing the right one!!!!
@@csjrogerson2377 These certain circumstances are only advise when you "should only" do it. Ashley said you can do it on a one way street. I'm saying you can do it om a two way street on any street once there are 2 lanes in your direction. There is no speed to differate congested from non congested traffic. Undertaking is allowed up to the speed limit.
@@saundersdachicken6197 Your "should only" is an exception to the law. The law is "no undertaking". As for no speed differentiation between congested and non-congested, that just odd. Non-congested traffic will be moving quicker and if you undertake in that circumstance you run the risk of being cited. Your final sentence is just untrue in the UK.
@@csjrogerson2377 The law is not "no undertaking" as there is no law that prohibits it. If lane 2 I'd doing 50mph and lane 1 is undertaking at 51mph does that mean it's not congested??? Or what about 30mph in lane 2 and 31 in lane 1??. You will find nothing in the Highway Code or the RAT that proves your point. This is from a Director of Traffic Offences. "The specific offence of undertaking (or nearside undertake) was actually removed from the statute books with the introduction of the 1972 Road Traffic Act, and although the Highway Code advises against it, there is no specific law that prevents it." - Director of Traffic Offenses, West Mercia Police.
Great topic! This story might be of interest you. I had a crash on a roundabout with a fire engine (not on blues and twos). I had dash cam footage of the crash yet their insurance blamed me for undertaking on a roundabout. They tried to fight it and the case finally ended up in court. In court all fireman and driver gave their cute statement of events and I felt it wasn’t going well for me. I roll up in my wheelchair, and first to be shown is the dash cam footage. Everyone sighs and then I make the point that undertaking on a roundabout is a ridiculous argument, and that I clearly showed consideration to a larger vehicle which is documented under rule 221 of the highway code. Case closed. Fireman at fault.
If you hadn't told the result I guarantee you that 90% of commenters here would blame you. It's disturbing to thing that fire fighters don't know the Code Good on you.
Personally, I think the vast majority of "undertaking" occurs as a result of lane-hogging. If you drive in mainland Europe, lane discipline is excellent. Drivers keep to the inside lane unless overtaking and lane-hogging is almost non-existent. Driving in the UK, standards are significantly worse. Embarrassingly so. The use of terms such as "slow lane" and "fast lane" don't help matters. The amount of drivers that join an empty motorway and go straight for lane two or three is truly staggering, presumably because they don't want to drive in the "slow lane". The fact that learners were unable to drive on the motorway until very recently is also an unhelpful factor. It means that the vast majority of drivers on the road were never taught to exercise proper lane discipline, which has resulted in them making their own skewed interpretations of the rules. If you look at the sort of drivers who lane-hog, most are quite old, and I think this is down to lack of education. From my experience, younger drivers often exhibit far better lane discipline. As someone who drives on the M25 on a regular basis, I will admit to passing people on the inside very frequently. Pretty much every day, to be honest. I'll never weave in and out of lanes like some drivers do, but with the outer lanes full of cars travelling at about 50, I'll move into lane one (usually empty as far as the eye can see) and proceed at the national speed limit, passing many vehicles on the inside in the process. I uploaded a video as an example of this last year. Would I be pulled over for doing this? Probably. Could it be considered dangerous? Possibly. One thing I do know is that if lane discipline was taken seriously in this country, then it would be physically impossible to pass 25-30 vehicles in one go whilst remaining in lane one. Doing the same in mainland Europe would be unthinkable.
You would think that but it's not complicated, the motorway is just a dual carriageway with another lane tacked on essentially. Stay left unless overtaking... the rules are clear; no amount of teaching or training can drill through a thick skull.
@@lr5777 Being pedantic but you've got to be careful about using terms like 'inside' and 'outside' lane as well, not sure about the rest of Europe but I know we use the terms the opposite way around to the Americans (even accounting for the mirrored perspective). They use inside to mean nearest the centre of the road, and outside referring to the outer edge of the road. For this reason I try to just refer to it as 'lane 1' as that seems to work whichever side and wherever in the world you are. And going to your original comment, the sad thing is our driving standards used to be very good, and while not perhaps quite as good as the Germans, our lane discipline wasn't bad either. But something seems to have happened in the last decade, and lane hogging is endemic now.
@@ryanmitcham5522 Useful to know about the terms "inside lane" and "outside lane" potentially causing confusion when referring to countries than drive on the right. Totally agree with your point about lane-hogging becoming more prevalent in recent years. Personally, I'd love to see the worst offenders incur hefty fines and points. Whether they're bloody-minded or just absent-minded, I don't care. Hit them with a £1,000 fine and they won't be doing it again.
That's exactly right and also exactly as you point out, this is already factoring in the reverse mirrored right hand traffic. I'm glad you pointed this out, as I often felt I was the only one to notice this.
@@w3w3w3 You'll , get the usual nonsense that the driver you are undertaking is less likely to check their mirrors while moving into lane . No evidence and there has never been a study of this being true. That used to be true 60 or so years ago when many cars never had passenger side view mirrors and up to 1972 when undertaking was illegal. That law was removed from the statute book 52 years ago. To say you are committing an offence because someone else just might commit on offence is laughable and embarrising to say the least.
It has to be done at times middle lane hogging forces me to do this as I use the motorway on a daily basis. Education is the answer drivers need to understand that the right hand lane is there to turn right or overtake, then of course move back into the left lane.
It's was the weaving around other vehicles that would fall under careless driving and NOT the passing of vehicles on their right or left. Come on Ashley, you should know that by now!
This video still doesn't clear up my confusion about why undertaking is bad. Illegal or not, why do people do it? And why shouldn't they do it? If it's ok to do it on a one way street, as you say, then why is it wrong on a motorway? (Isn't a motorway a three-lane one way street?) If people simply "aren't expecting" an overtake on their left then aren't they at fault for not observing properly and not being aware of their surroundings?
Your comment is almost a quote of who had I've been asking Ashley for around 3 years. He said it's legal yet in in the same sentence he says you will be done for dangerous driving. It's like saying it's legal but it's not. It's been 50years since the law on undertaking was remover from the Statute Book.
@@mattyplays836 What Ashley is saying doesn't make any sense. More or less he's saying, undertaking is legal manouver but if you're caught doing it then you will be charged under careless driving.
@@MrJohnny3shoes I'm thinking it's how and why you do it. That example in this video of the guy speeding past cars on the inside was dangerous driving. I've undertaken people when I've been driving 60 mph on the inside and there's someone in the middle lane doing 50, the outside lane is busy and there's a load of people behind me. So you either glide past them on the inside or put your brakes on and cause a tail back behind you.
@@blotski What I'm saying is passing another vehicle from the left lane. Nothing aggressive or doing it over the speed limit, or weaving in and out of lanes. E.g. doing 70mph in lane 1 with a vehicle doing less in lane 2. This does not fall under careless driving and nothing illegal about doing it.
For your info. The law says. : “Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake.” The Code though, advises that it's OK for a car to in slow-moving traffic, if its lane is moving faster than a lane on the right. In these circumstances it's deemed safer to than to weave in and out of the traffic
Yes, and the current guidelines to do with ‘variable speed limit (VSLI)’ areas say much the same thing, so that it’s tolerable to pass a slower moving queue on the left, rather than holding back the one you are in. The whole point of such a system is to reduce the need for lane changes which have a negative effect on capacity during busy times. Need to be careful about ‘blind spots’ on both sides, though. W.r.t ‘average speed monitoring’ areas, it often seems to me that many private cars run slow on account of not knowing how (in)accurate their displays actually are, so as to avoid being done for speeding. E.g. mine is about 5% fast (they almost all are, because of the lop-sided standards).
There is nothing in the highway code to say it's illegal to undertake no matter what speed you're doing. This "only in slow moving traffic" or in a one way street, or when there's continuous white lines is just misinformation and I'd like someone to point out where they got this myth from.
Not only do lane hoggers increase the likelihood of someone undertaking, they also make overtaking riskier because people overtaking have to switch more lanes, not to mention the build up of traffic and aggravation they cause.
Have to agree. Some people say if you undertake then the car you are passing in lane 2 will less likely check their mirrors moving back into lane 1. In that case what makes them think, that includes Ashley, moving from lane 1 to 4, overtake, then 4 to 3, then 3 to 2, 2 to 1 would be any safer? I think it's them who should think again!
Thanks for the video Ashley, glad to see my clips made it over to you! Your explanation made perfect sense, and in future I’d definitely not be going for an undertake in most scenarios like that - really not worth it to get past a lane hogger in most scenarios.
He said you can undertake on a one way street. He never mentioned being legal on a two way street. He said you can only undertake if there are continuous dividing lines. That's wrong. You can undertake whether they're continuous or not. He also said you can undertake if the car in front is turning right. If the car in front is in the lane to your right you can undertake whether it's turning right or not.
I often travel on a section of 2 lane motorway in Durham during rush hour. Usually the right hand lane is full of cars driving to close together, all refusing to come over to the left lane in case they come across a lorry. As they think no one will let them back out to overtake the lorry. I stick to the left lane at around 60ish nice and relaxed, with a clear lane ahead, inevitably passing them as they all brake and slow down due to some one further up suddenly braking. If I come across a lorry there is usually someone who will let me out, then it's straight back to the left lane.
AT 4:20 Ashley makes a move from lane 1 to 3 to overtake and back in to 1. That's ok on an almost empty free flowing motorway. He should have picked a time when it's busy ( 3:35 ) with traffic moving around the speed limit and a hogger in lane 3 of 4 lanes. Any driver with a little bit of experience would favour passing on inside than make multiple lane changing. And to clear up the rubbish , It's NOT illegal and does NOT fall under careless driving.
@@ashley_neal Under what law would a driving instructor mark undertaking as a fail?? You said it's allowed on a one way street or a one way system. One side of a dual carriageway and a motorway is one way systems, and as you said it's legal to undertake. A hogger that's in lane 2 or 3 or 4 or even more does not set the speed limit. If a sign says 70mph well that is what it is. The only time you could fail is if the undertaking is done without due care and attention or reasonable consideration for other road users. Both are careless driving.
@@ashley_neal I don't know what the problem is but being a driving instructor, you shouldn't have any problem answering the question. Isn't that what part of the driving instructors duty is.
If I'm in the left lane, there's a big space in front of me, and I'm doing 70mph, then I'm going to stay doing 70mph. I'm not going to slow down for the middle lane. I'm not going round the long way. F them.
Ashley If we had motorways/freeways as in US with 10 plus lanes, and I want to undertake in lane 1, how many lanes between me and the hogger would not be classed as careless driving?
on a motorway the middle and outside lane are for overtaking only, not for a jolly, if a car you come across in the middle lane that has been in the middle lane by himself in the middle of the night , it is legal to undertasske him, drivers in the middle lane and outer lane must keep up with the pace of traffic
Undertaking being fine on a one way street interests me. How is that any different to undertaking on a dual carriageway given that the oncoming traffic is separated by the central reservation?
Hi Ashley, I've only just seen your video. On a regular motorway I have always considered intentionally changing lanes to undertake is at best poor driving and at worst dangerous driving, although undertaking, whilst remaining in your lane, safer than changing two lanes to the right and then two lanes to the left, especially if this is repeated on a journey many times due to regularly spaced slow vehicles in lane two. However what I would like your opinion on is the example, posted by others, on encountering a vehicle travelling, for example, at 60mph in lane three and the situation of travelling in lane 1 when a vehicle in lane two suddenly slows down and there is no traffic ahead of you in lane 1. Must you slow down to avoid the undertake, potentially risking a rear collision (why would you brake when no one is in front of you) or do you suddenly try to pass the slowing vehicle in lane two? Surely staying in lane and undertaking is much safer than the other two choices?
So if you come up to one of those plonkers on the motorway who drive at 50 mph, dozing in the right-hand lane, what are you meant to do? Stay behind them and hoping they will eventually wake up? Carefully overtake them on the left, allowing for the fact that they probably do not bother to indicate or look if they do eventually move left? The only drivers I have seen being pulled by the police up are the ones who zoom past with a high differential speed. I have never seen anyone pulled up for undertaking when they have done it carefully in a non-careless way.
Just to sum up on this. I consulted a Police Traffic Officer on this subject and in any case it is not illegal to undertake either on any type of road or roundabout with 2 lanes but and he did stress this if your caught doing this and deemed to be driving dangerously or course an accident a clause in the Highway code is brought into effect in court and you can be prosecuted for not using the highway to which it was designed for and the fine can be up to £5,000 and this will be applied to any other offence committed during that act. if you course injury by under taking it can be classed as Dangerous or Driving without Due Care and Attention and this offense carry's the issues with it as stated by Ashley. Good informative video
Overtaking, pulling out from a parked position, turning left, turning right, entering or exiting a roundabout, doing a U turn, they are all legal manoeuvres. They along with undertaking are all legal but if you're caught doing these manouvres dangerously or carelessly and whether of not you cause a collision the Highway Code would be brought into effect. Overtaking on left or right are both as legal as each other.
If someone is to the right of me driving under the speed limit I will undertake them without hesitation at the speed limit providing they are not indicating left.
@BlueBoy 1 I was told by a driving instructor that drivers don't need to signal to get back into lane one or two after overtaking as moving back to those lanes is where the driver should be having overtaken. But i do signal to move back over in case some bozo tries to undertake me.
@@notmyname4261 yes, changing lanes especially. And I signal even if there's nobody around. It is just habit to signal. Mind you I suppose people on their phones rarely take much notice of indicators or brake lights, They seem to have more important things to do!
@@tonycritcher3419 if your moving back into lane 2 after an overtake a car from lane 1 may want to move into the same lane to overtake. Your driving instructor should never be allowed to teach beginners.
@@mikehunter2844 That was over 40 years ago. I always used my indicators when changing lanes. That is why she told me not to, as I did it whilst out on a lesson in her car. I did it naturally after many years of motor cycling. And I'm still signalling my intentions today.
Ashley, overtaking is legal, but not if it's done carelessly. The very same applies to undertaking or any legal manouver. To do it carelessly would be to weave in and out of lanes or breaking the speed limit and it's this is what would be classed as careless driving and NOT the over/ undertaking. You can undertake on any road that has two or more lanes in the same direction that includes single carraigeways. What is your interpretation of "careless undertaking'?
Great video as always. Have you done a video before about parking on dropped kerbs? This one always sparks debate amongst motorists and the legality of it. Would be interesting to see that.
What might happen that makes overtaking on left be classed as dangerous driving? If I'm passing a car to my right and he/she before I'm level with it, moves into my lane and hits me how would I be charged for be driving dangerously or carelessly? Confused, help.
If you are in lane 1 for instance and you are doing the speed limit, although it may be slightly more dangerous to ‘undertake’ it is not illegal. What is illegal is weaving between lanes to make progress.
Like when he says undertaking is legal but is dangerous driving. Unless the law has changed but I've always believed that it's illegal to drive dangerously.
I was taught that it is okay to undertake on a motorway if you are doing the correct speed limit. I don't see why you need to move from Lane 1-3 to overtake a middle lane hogger at 70mph because they can't be assed to move over.
Driving from London to the Midlands I often come across lane 2 and 3 chocker block with slow moving cars but lane 1 is absolutely clear. I will reduce speed to 60 - 65 tops and undertake with extream caution, observing 3 to 5 cars ahead for any sign a lane change.
If somebody says it's not illegal, that doesn't mean they will do it. Ashley you have got this one completely wrong. Can you not just accept it. Didn't you say a few years back that undertaking was illegal? Can you send me the link where you got your information about being charged for dangerous driving if you're caught undertaking??
Generally if it's in heavy traffic and there has been no deliberate lane change to perform the undertake it should be ok , as in Ashley's examples (stay in lane, turning traffic etc) where a driver has deliberately changed lanes to the left to go past that is where there is the possible offence committed
If lane one is empty after an overtake you are supposed to move into it. After doing so, there is no law that prevents you from overtaking a vehicle to your right. Whether that's done "deliberately" or not, it's an offence to not move back into lane one.
So here’s a question: Slow moving HGV is sitting at 60-65 mph in lane 2 you know you need to be off on the next junction (I’m travelling a short distance along this road and never leave lane 1) so I need to move from lane 1 to 3 and back to overtake a HGV? That seems more dangerous than just undertaking I need to be back into lane 1 so I don’t miss the exit.
As with most things in law, it's a grey area. It's not technically illegal to undertake (as in, there is no specific offence) however it may constitute you being reported for driving without due care or dangerous driving. It's one of those ones - you read the road and traffic ahead and work out if it's reasonably safe to perform an undertake. The clip at 3:53 shows someone undertaking but they've totally failed to read the road which is why they weren't prepared for the white van to change lane and a collision almost occurred. When I'm driving, I'm not only driving my car, I'm driving everyone else's too - that's the mindset you need to avoid problems.
I would say this is completely wrong, what is illegal is being in the far outside lane and NOT overtaking. Undertaking is completely fine as long as it is within the speed limit. 10:05 "Undertaking in the UK is not illegal" 6:32 "For the people that say undertaking is not illegal, you can just keep on doing it, think again because you are massively misinformed."
Ashley, since it has become legal to undertake since 1972 and as you say it is now only allowed in slow moving traffic, then it must have been illegal to pass on inside at any speed?
Had a Merc undertake me at what must have been 100mph when I was coming up to a temporary 60mph on motorway, had a big smile on my face when he got flashed.
I have to admit, I do it quite frequently, but I live very close to the M20, and there are often people hogging L3, when L1 and L2 are free, so I keep to L1 to undertake. If they're in L2, I'll keep to L1, give a flash to let them know they can move over, but if they don't, I back off and overtake in L3, then move (carefully) back to L1. Sometimes they get the hint, but they're mostly belligerent twits 😂
@Oldladysgin I rarely drive in other countries, so that's not really an issue. Also, odd thing to comment when I'm a Brit, commenting on a video recorded in Britain, uploaded by a British driving instructor 🤔
@@nicksh1990 I was an ADI for many years and had my own chauffering business etc. My comments are general and the hardest comments of all? I save for my own driving.
If you can only undertake when the car to the right has signalled to turn right then its illegal to undertake if its not siginal to turn right. 😂😂. Ohhh Ashley!
in most situations, I don't mind being undertaken, it's just part of being aware of your surroundings. Undertaking only becomes an issue for me, is when the car behind me in lane 2 just after a roundabout, switches to lane one and aggressively speeds up and actively doesn't take time for me to accomodate them.
When I was at cardington doing my examiner training, I raised this and the answer was an undertake is when you pass the car on the left then pull back in front of them. Passing a car in the left if you can without exceeding the speed limit falls under the rule of if your in traffic and your lane is moving faster than there's, I also asked a traffic cop and got a similar answer
Yep, that's always been my thinking. Being in the left lane and "passing" a slower car in the lane to your right should not be considered an offence if you stay in the left lane during and after the manoeuvre.
@@ashley_neal Yeah, that's definitely a "grey area", but if left at the discretion of a safe or conscientious driver, the before would be as long as it takes you to assess that the slower driver has no intention of moving over, and the after being until you come across a slower driver in the lane ahead of you, or until the lane becomes an exit (assuming you aren't exiting). Hope that makes sense. :)
It makes total sense. You pass a slower driver on the nearside - undertaking. Do you feel as though you have to justify your actions by mentioning "safe and conscientious" because undertaking is deemed so poorly? I think and act in a similar way to you by the way!
@@ashley_neal That was just a clarification. ;) Seriously though it was mainly to differentiate between someone approaching the slower driver at a sane speed, and not just battering through on the left, likely to scare the bejeezus out of them.
I sometimes pass lane hoggers on the left slowly and predictably if moving across two or more lanes just to pass them seems more unsafe than simply passing on the left, such as a busy stretch of motorway. What are your thoughts on this? I approach slowly and then when I'm in their blind spot I swiftly pass to remain visible to the driver. There's a lot of situations I have been where that seems way safer than crossing multiple lanes and it doesn't interrupt traffic flow. Ideally the best situation would be that everyone stayed left unless overtaking, but we all know many drivers don't do that and I believe that's way more dangerous and disruptive.
Not really an answer which I guess should be different for car drivers. I ride a small 125cc motorcycle (weighs less than a car and less than a proper motorbike) and last week when the wind was so high I was nearly pushed out of my lane, I would never even think of doing two lane switches right and left to pass a slow middle lane hogger in those circumstances. But for similar reasons, even in perfect weather, on a 40mph+ dual carriageway I will never take the increased risk of switching lanes unless I need to take an exit or avoid the exit that I will automatically take if I stay on the lane. But as I say this is my perspective on a small motorbike, on cars I would guess it's no trouble to properly switch lanes here and there. For me though if there's a little bump I can feel it and sometimes the bike actually jumps off the ground, imagine that happening when switching lanes. 😂
Same thinking here, If I'm in L1 and some ones hogging L2 I would undertake ( and I mean maintain my speed ) with caution as going 2,3,2,1 seems a greater risk. Also I wouldn't go 3,2,1,2,3 to pass someone!
I think the best way to deal with lane hoggers is to sit 6 feet from their back bumper and flash your lights until they move over. If they don't move over within 12 seconds I undertake as fast as possible... Oh no, I don't drive an Audi 😉
In my experience, drivers that cross two lanes to undertake often do so dangerously and aggressively. If I make a note of the vehicle, I often find that they are still within my view, even twenty miles down the highway. It just doesn't seem worth it, particularly on a congested highway.
It is silly to consider conducting undertaking illegal just because it might cause alarm or distress to members of public, I think as long as it is safe for the gap and time, you could undertake applying similar rules of overtaking, why those made the rules ignored common sense to call it “due care and attention”, there is a lot of difference in skills and intelligence ( I am not implying that I am smarter than above else) between motorists but as long as they are careful and considerate to other drivers, I did not think undertakers should be warned or prosecuted
Spot on. To say a manoeuvre is classed as careless driving because someone else may do something careless is just nonsence. Like saying I'm at fault because someone else is at fault. What most people seem to forget is if traffic in any of the outer lanes are driving less than 70mph then lane 1 speed limit is still 70mph.
@2:54 look left & right just before the crossroads as there might be a red light jumper. Don't forget the delay from each traffic light changing may be just a few seconds to none at all. Never trust traffic lights as they can go wrong.
Let's be realistic and I'm talking about motorway driving to be clear. Drivers that don't return to the inside lanes after overtaking should be equally liable. A motorway is in effect a oneway street, admitted with a faster speed limit, but now we have 4 lanes. Lane hoggers are driving without due care and attention in my opinion. I see this all the time as a high milage motorway driver, but don't get upset about it. I do sometimes undertake if there's someone in lane 4 doing 60 mph and lane 2 is clear. If I did get pulled for this non-offense I would try my best to defend it in court. You all know how that would work out 😪😯😥
If you do it carefully and deliberately with no more than 10kph difference between you and the zombie in lane 3 you will be OK. The cops go after the tailgater and light flasher who jerks into lane 2 aggressively and then zooms by at a speed difference of greater than 20 kph and then jerks back out to lane 3 at a very high speed. This is not the way to do it as it makes no allowance for panic or sudden movements on the part of the suddenly awake lane hogger.
@@jgdooley2003 Doesn't matter what the speed difference is. Undertaking is the same as overtaking, just done on different sides. Both are equally legal.
@@mikehunter2844 Highway code is for UK, different country. I live in the Republic of Ireland, free since 1922. I was advised by the roads policing unit that speed differences are the big cause of collisions on multilane roads. Also that people changing lanes both from inner and outer lanes must give way to traffic on the other lanes. Some people think they can change to the left lane without looking, they are wrong.
@@jgdooley2003 If the speed difference in the ROI between two lanes is 20km/h the Gardaí will not and cannot pull you in for doing so. Like the UK there is no law that prohibits undertaking in ROI on motorways. If there's a major difference they *may* pull you in for driving at an inappropriate speed and not for undertaking. The same if you are overtaking.
In my opinion, re: the white Jag in lane 2. When travelling in lane 1 approaching the slower Jag in Lane 2, in those conditions the risk of moving from lane 1 across to lane 3 and back again is higher than remaining in lane 1 and passing on the nearside; if having observed the Jag for a sustained period with it remaining in lane 2, it is a more appropriate manoeuvre
I'd have done the same. The Jag driver deserves to receive points and a hefty fine for driving without due care and attention. That was an awful display of driving from them and demonstrates a total lack of lane discipline.
It's not illegal to undertake a lane hogger; an offence in itself now. Think what is a lorry supposed to do? He can't use the outside lane due to being a lorry so if some muppet is hogging lane 2 for example that means he has no choice; he can't afford the time to just sit behind them. It's not illegal under those circumstances unless you are also speeding.
HGV drivers should be permitted to ram the lane-hoggers off the road. Not only that, if the lane-hogger survives they should incur a hefty fine which should then be used to reward the lorry driver for teaching them a lesson in the first place.
@@lr5777 They should also be permitted to ram the idiot who slowes down to the hoggers speed believing what some idiot told them about getting convicted for dangerous driving if he's caught passing the hogger.
I do it only when Necessary like when someone is just sitting in the outside lane on the motorway or the flow of traffic on the inside lane is quicker.
Ashley thanks for all your educational videos. However in this one the only advice you offered to deal with the lane hoggers was a caption 'overtake properly'. You avoided the obvious problem. If somebody is in the OUTSIDE lane for long periods and refuses to move over ........ ? I would suggest it is possible to pass on the nearside in this scenario without being careless. What is your specific advice on this please?
@@ashley_neal You can say you "can be" for overtaking. It is NOT classed the same as lane hogging. Lane hogging is an offence. Undertaking hasn't been an offence for 50 years. If you think otherwise why did you undertake the truck in one of your recent videos and where in the Highway Code does it back you up?
What I'm missing in this video is to explain with a bit more detail why undertaking is careless or reckless driving and that these kind of manoeuvrers can actually cause massively dangerous accidents on motorways.
I've asked that question on other videos yet nobody has given a ligit answer.... It cannot be classed as CD or DD if it's legal. Even rule 268 doesn't say it's a "Must Not" rule.
If you move from lane 3 over to lane 1 to undertake is that more dangerous than staying in lane 1 to undertake a slower moving vehicle in lane 2 if lane discipline was better there would be no need to undertake?
What makes me laugh is the speed limit applies to ALL lanes on a motorway unless otherwise stated. So how could a hogger in lane 2, 3 or 4 change the speed limit from 70mph to their speed????
Before watching the video; I undertake people about 50% of the time when I encounter them. If they refuse to keep to the outside lane, why would I endanger myself by travelling through 2 lanes only to go back at least one again. They should see me pass them if they pay attention, and I should pay extra care while in their blind spot, and only do it if I can go onto the shoulder need be
well when someone is sitting in the outside lane doing less than the speed limit.... and have ample time to move over, i will undertake.. its as simple as that. lane hoggers (especially those that dont go the speed limit) are the worst drivers out there.. and people would never need to undertake.
I’m not going to argue with any of the rules or fines you mention. I will argue till the cows come home, including the police, undertaking is not dangerous. Leaving aside the person who is weaving in and out of traffic, when changing lane one should always check mirrors to ensure it’s safe to change lane, so where’s the danger? If I were to undertake a lane hogger, I would ensure that the hard shoulder was clear so that I could move into it if the lane hogger moved into the lane I was driving in. Where’s the danger? You might as well say that passing someone on your left was dangerous because they might move into your lane. The logic that it’s dangerous just staggers me
You are 100% spot om.. Because someone is doing something illegal, like hogging any of the outside lanes why are you the one committing a criminal offence? It's just rubbish. It's like saying if your going through a green light with the flow of traffic and another vehicle to your left or right goes through a red light and smacks into you then you are at fault.
This is why I hate middle lane hogs so much. When I drive to Bournemouth there are people who will just sit on the middle lane and happily drive until it’s their time to come off even though all the lanes are clear.
Well if people kept left unless overtaking i wouldnt have to, i refuse to go across multiple lanes just to overtake a vehicle to move back across multiple lanes to the correct driving lane
A case in point is a stream division on encountering a major motorway junction. If you are taking the right fork but in the slow lane most barm pots that are taking the left fork will want to over take you on the right then narrowly avoid a pile up by then diving into the left stream!
Maybe I haven't quite understood this but, am I right to assume that providing you are within the speed limit and it is safe that you are allowed to undertake? I remember the question coming up on the theory test when I passed years ago and it basically said you can undertake if the traffic in your right is going slower than you are
