I AGREE HE IS A GREAT PREACHER & NO ONE CAN STAND UP TO HIS SERMONS HE HIMSELF SAYS THE BIBLE IS NOT THE ACTUAL WORD OF GOD , BUT INSPIRED BY MAN. NO AUTHORS , DON'T REALLY KNOW JUST GUESS WHO WROTE THEM AND NO EVIDENCE. EVEN THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS DONT MENTION A WORD ABOUT JESUS. I WAS A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHRISTIAN ALL MY LIFE. I HAVE COME CLOSE TO DEATH ONCE & I CAN ASSURE YOU, THERE IS NO GOD HIGHER THAN ALLAH SWT. I LOVE ISA ( PBUH) JESUS AND HIS TEACHINGS. BUT, GREEKS & ROMANS HAVE MADE HIM A GOD. SAME CONCEPT OF ZUES THE FATHER CREATOR OF HEAVENS & EARTH MANKIND AND HIS SON HERCULES BORN HUMAN WENT THROUGH TRIALS & TRIBULATIONS AND IN DEATH HE BECOMES A DEMIGOD WHO GOES TO HEAVEN ( MT. OLYMPUS). THE CONCEPT OF ONE GOD ALONE IS HARD FOR NATIONS TO GRASP. JESUS HIMSELF DID NOT CLAIM TO BE GOD AND TO WORSHIP HIM ONLY. THERE ARE CRUCIAL EPISTLES THAT KING JAMES DID NOT INCLUDE IN THE CANNON OF THE BIBLE. FOR EXAMPLE THE EPISTLE OF BARNABAS WHO WAS WITH JESUS FROM THE BEGINNING LIKE PETER. MATTER OF FACT PETER & BARNABAS TRAVELED AND SPREAD THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS TOGETHER. PETER & PAUL ( PAUL WHO WAS A ROMAN CITIZEN) DID NOT AGREE ABOUT CERTIAN THINGS PAUL WAS SAYING. I JUST GAVE YOU A FEW DISCREPANCIES. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" appears in the King James Version of the Bible in Exodus 20:3. The verse continues, "You shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth". THIS INCLUDES JESUS THE MESSIAH.
@@user-wy8zm7ge1yTHE GOSPELS ARE DERIVED FROM GREEK MYTHOLOGY AND WRITTEN & TRANSLATED INTO GREEK BY PAUL A ROMAN CITIZEN & A HELLENISTIC JEW JESUS BY THE WAY SPOKE ARAMIAC & HEBREW. MOSTLY ARAMIAC AS IT WAS THE MOST COMMON SPOKEN LANGUAGE AT THAT TIME.
Same to me The Qur'an have the number that the bible don't You can asked arab British and Asian to read the Qur'an and they will read the same But try to do that to bible Noo you can't do that, .. Have you ever heard the Chanel call efdawa and hamza den ?
He's the only muslim apologist who does not come as cringe or conceited. Shabir did well in this debate but Jay Smith's material is beyond unbelievable
I want to know, in Quran and The Bible it's clear that Jesus is in heaven. But when it comes to Mohammed it's unknown what happened to him after death. So if he is in hell whoever believes him and his religion are going to hell...right. Think Muslims...
1 Yes, The Bible is inspired 2 Yes, teachings are beneficial 3 No false prophecies 4 Jesus is YHWH in the flesh 5 Absolutely no contradictions in The KJV So we are good. This guy poked more holes in the Quran than a spaghetti strainer. This is the Word of Satan. He who has the SON has life, and he who has not the SON, has not life
An eternal book that was standardized in 1985 and canonized in 1924? Oh boy! It took Allah more than a 1200 years after prophet Muhammad to give muslims this so called his eternal words. Why didn't Dr Shabir refute all the fraudulent corrections on all the manuscripts? Lol, Dr Jay won this debate in his first 35 minutes. Dr Shabir had no choice but hide behind the coincidences of the mathematical numbers. @@waymilky442
@@mazal6157your lying what Dr. Jay Smith was the bible was WRITTEN by men.. that's why it called MANUSCRIPT.. even your Quran was written by Men and burned by Uthman.. and made a 5 copies..
then how else would it be written lol?? Do you think God himself will come down and write the book? Jay Smith meant that the apostles (which is men) wrote Jesus words (meaning Gods words).
I am delighted to hear that the Bible is a word of God about The Word of God that dwelt and dwells among us. What a calm debate and informed debaters. It looks Dr. Jay Smith was better informed.
That was the most peaceful debate ive seen so far..nicely carried by both parties who are well mannered..dr shabir is worth the respect as well as jay smith.❤
@@jamalodenbasar8010On what grounds did he win the only thing happen was everybody mouth dropped when we found out how many books was written and it wasn’t finalized 1985 This means it was given and eternal is a bald face lie and everything else is too shocking and disgusted with the lies
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
@@ayoubalbalushi729Bible is the Word of God in the meaning true history down written by imperfect men. But the copies are very careful copied under centuries. The teaching in the Bible is given from God to men inspired through the Holy Spirit. In Christianity the spiritual relation to God throw Jesus Christ is the important thing, not the “book” itself. You can trust the teaching in the Bible, even if small changes may have happened through the centuries. But the biggest evidence for christianity is when you receive Jesus in your heart through the Holy Spirit and confess him as your Savior. If you do it with all your heart you will be born again!😀❤️🙏
@@Ubbe6 great words🌹 Imagine if a Buddhist person said something like this, instead of saying Jesus says Buddha, would you follow the Buddhists? You said follow the teachings of Christ. Well, where can I find these teachings? Isn't it in the Bible? What guarantees that this teaching has not been distorted as well? It was mentioned in the Bible that Jesus was praying. To whom was he praying? Why not imitate Christ and pray to the same God to whom Christ prayed. Why do the Ten Commandments call for the monotheism of God and then we see some people saying that Jesus is a god? Then what is the evidence that Jesus is the son of God? It is stated in the Bible that all believers in God are sons of God. Are all believing human beings truly sons of God, or is the word “son” here a metaphorical expression for love, mercy, and closeness? 🌹☺️
Dr Shabir didn't answer the question of the audience on why Muslim majority country do not allow Bible to be available freely to the people as compared to Christian majority country where Quran is freely available? With current modern era , this is only happening to the Bible.. Why? Because they r worried that the true Word Of GOD will change their lives ...
Nah, the governments in the west were inspired by Christianity to give people freedom just like the God of the Bible created humans with a free will. It's not the governments problem in Islamic countries but the ideology of Islam. @@enigmaspectator
He did , the Quran doesn't but countries do. These are Muslim countries but not Islamic countries most are run by dictators who actually even hate islam
@@alexbenny6469Christians don't fear the wrath of the devil.... So it's a blessing to be kicked out of islam... 😂😂😂😂😂 Better late than never to walk the right path
Still I do not think Muslims are bad people. They are also the children of God. Maybe they may need correction. Many Christians need correction. THere is only ONE GOD.
@ashishcharan7377 ofcurse Muslimes are not bad people. my whole family are Muslimes. but Islam is the Satan way and encouraging people to hate others. Anyone who follow Islam rules, their hearts become more hard and hateful and Mohammad was just a Sexlover killer and Lair who used relegion to earn money, women for Sex and popularity, so he did it.
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
@@ayoubalbalushi729 Yep, that's an honest understanding of the Bible. Now if only you could give me an honest understanding of the Quran. You just had one delivered by Jay in this debate but you're not listening.
The problem with Shabir argument on quranic miracle like 365 days is that 365 days is a system based on solar calendar, whilst islam uses lunar calendar. So this argument is flawed.
As I am watching Dr. Shabir Ally's first 35 minutes of defending the present version of the Quran and hearing him saying that this is God's/Allah's inspired version of the Quran due to the mathematics in the book. >>> What came to my mind, as he is using this for his defense, is that Satan and the fallen angels ,also, have knowledge of mathematics. Knowing that, how can one conclude that the final version of the Quran is "divinely" inspired based on the mathematics????
Also when he was talking math I thought he was going to say something like the quaran gives the equation for circumference of the observable universe, but he ended up saying hot and cold are mentioned the same numbe of times lmfao
Lol I'd also say that he's using only this standardized Quran, but what about the other Qurans which have more surahs? That's an obvious hole in that argument. I think he leaned way too hard on this argument.
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
@@sakilahmed2871 why do i have to leave hinduism.. hinduism is the best religion in the world.. you should leave islam.. islam is misguiding the people. Islam and quran is book of slave,sex and terrorism. I would just say leave islam and be real human. 🙏
If you are Muslim follow Quran nothing else, but if you are not Muslim just saying you are Muslim to draw a conclusion Jesus will turn his face from you in the day of judgement.
It should. Digging into the Quran reveals nothing but falsehoods, contradictions, and rules to satisfy the sexual and personal preferences of an illiterate man that was visited by a demon.
Set the topic aside; A great debate. A disciplined and regulated debate with two men versed in their own and each others material while being respectful and courteous throughout.
Why are you acting silly for the sake of argumentation? You know that God Almighty doesn't die, but rather He is the Ever Living (Jeremiah 10:10)@@de1623
He was not refuted. His arguments were cogent, valid, and he correctly put things into context. There is no winner in this debate. They were both excellent. However, Jay Smith at times behaved a little like a 'bible puncher', making some statements believable without foundation: ideal for trying to convert others, hence why so many commentators thought he won the debate. Both sets of arguments were valid. Both the Quran and Bible have been modified and consolidated over time, with similar time periods and evolutionary steps. In terms of teaching, they are opposed: the Quran is the story of the life and times of Muhammad, an excellent leader and thinker of his time, who set rules appropriate to that time for the survival of his tribes and the care of the dependents of those who died at war and how to live in peace with each other at that time in history. The Old Testament is a story of the history of the Jewish race, with numerous wars, and the New Testament is the story of hope, of living in peace. As with all religions, religious rules have developed over time, known as tradition, with most of the rules that are followed today being made by man that were never intended by the founders of those religions.
Wow.. Dr Shabir just one step ahead from salvation, he read bible and I pray Holy Spirit will illuminate the real truth. Bless him with love of Abba Father. Jesus loves him
I love the hug at the end. I had many personal Christian friends and church members killed by misguided Muslims, I had to obey Jesus and turn the other cheek. For knowledge/ debates/ research, tongues/ prophecy, etc… shall fail, but love never fails. Thank you both for your sincere love and convictions…
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
The Central Chapter of the Bible: Psalms 118 The fact can be argued depending on what Bible version you are using, but by most reckoning, the very center of the Bible when measured by chapter count is Psalms 118. Here are some other fun facts surrounding Psalm 118: The longest chapter of the Bible falls just after this center chapter-- Psalm 119. The shortest chapter of the Bible falls just after this center chapter-- Psalm 117. There are exactly 594 chapters before Psalm 118, and exactly 594 chapters after it. When you add the number of chapters before Psalms 118 and those after, the sum is 1,118. And the verse at the very center of the Bible is Psalms 118:8. The Center Verse; Psalm 118:8 - "It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man."
Dear, sir Jay Smith, Your way of explanation is highly appreciated. well-done sir. God always with you... I pray for God that may our good Lord protects you all the evils...
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
I have read both, and find the Quran more compelling. I find it more honest in the story of Prophet Lut PBUH than the Bible's Lot. How can a Prophet have children with his daughters? I feel it must have been added later on by those who did not like the message of this Prophet, who spoke to people who raped and attacked visitors and immigrants to their cities. We see the same xenophobia all over the world now, which is so sad because we will likely have more climate refugees this century and the next than ever before.
@@KevinChavis Lot was not a Prophet,, he was just Abraham's nephew not more not less ..now when the Qur'an copies some parts of The Bible and changes names trying to make it look Authentic ..it is called a fraud ...The Quran is nothing but a fraudulent book designed to teach hatred..lies, and hypocrisy in people.: If it is original how come that all the people mentioned are Jews ? PPs Deejal means antichrist what has it to do with Islam
I read both. I opened the bible and read the first page and found out day and night was there before the sun … the fruits and veg were created before the sun . After that it all was a laughable read
@@issaaabella1225 What do we as humanity know how the universe was created and life started? What if life was first created in a different time period in our universe? Before our sun existed. Life need not be at the same time. Mars used to have water and an atmosphere - no more. Venus could have had life but too much energy is trapped in its atmosphere. Life on Earth isn't as simple as many think, we're being blessed by Allah SWT with life here.
@@KevinChavis right on bro ! I agree with u ! But it is a matter of common sense that Allah never created fruits and veg on earth before the sun . Or you can’t have day and night without sun .
He doesn't even know the "true" name of GZeus lol but he's speaking the truth? Hello? A more obvious sign that Christians are heedless is literally impossible.
@robertbuckey6517 Christians don't even know the name of the man they worship. I like to use GZeus instead of the equally made-up name "Jesus" because GZeus is a reference to both the Greek Pagan influence on this hijacked Abrahamic monotheism and also because Zeus, Poseidon and Hades was another idolatrous notion of a triune God. Is that clear? I'm not asking if you agree but simply if you understand what I'm saying. It stands to reason that if a human-being doesn't know how to add, they don't know how to multiple. They don't even know his name but simultaneously claim to have the truth. It is a clear sign. I'm guessing it evades you lol
As one of the famous Muslims scholar ones said, “Our Standard Islamic Narrative(SIN) has holes in it.” Dr.Jay Smith completely destroyed the perfect preservation narrative by Muslims. There’s a reason why Dr. Ali is a Quran only Muslim now, and doesn’t believe in the Hadiths anymore,because he realize he cannot defend a lot of embarrassing stuff in their Islamic sources.
I am a Christian but was curious about Islam. My faith has been strengthened by both Jay and Shabir. Will pray for Shabir, hope that his eyes be opened to see the light.
We pray for christians as Muslims so that the almighty can guide them to the truth which is Quran, ISLAM was the religion of all prophets of Allah(Ellah)/(God) how Jesus PBUH called God. And to say God Almighty has come to earth in human form and had child is a blasphemy. So read Quran before you die that is all we ask for.
@@mahmudshiil135 God walked into human history to become a man to suffer with us, to suffer for us, to save us. How pitiful you cannot see the greatest LOVE. We pray for you and other unbelievers, may your hearts be opened to see the truth, to see the Love of God.
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
what are you talkig about, there are literally thousands of different bibiles in the word. there are more different versions of bible than there is different breeds of dogs.
So, then there was no sacrifice for mankind, right? A 3 day vacation to save all humanity from the very nature and purpose that gives them value? Morality?makes a lot of sense if you're an idolator.
@@findtruth5329 Do you even know what the crucifixion and resurrection is and why it was necessary?? Please educate yourself as the Hadith literature says that Jews and Christians will be put in hell to save Muslims who have sins the size of mountains, now if THAT isn't idolatry idk what is
That's because it's a closed and a strict system, refusing you to question it core foundation, it has been compiled many times by different Caliphs. Even Jesus Christ was question several times, the bible is open for all to review and criticise, but Quran prevents that, I encourage to gain knowledge and read more, also read the Bible, as you have read the Quran, you will gain more knowledge.
And Dr Ally even says he don't dispute the Bible's manuscripts to the current Bible.. meaning he admits no corruption.. He found the description of Jesus changes from man to God in the New Testamant. But it's still the same Bible.. so I'm confused as to what Muslims believe at this point.
Qu'ran mentions love 49 times and most of that in negative connotation. It mentiones fear, hate and terror over 700 times . 10 % of the qur'an describe torture in the afterlife. Look what christianity does with a face. Look what (orthodox) Islam does with a face.
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
Dr. Shabir did not address the clear manuscript differences found in the variety of the earliest Quranic texts. He ignored the textual variants altogether. I wonder why? My thoughts are that Jay Smith definitely undermined the preservation theory of the Quran. @@NadeemHussain-rt3fd
@@irataylor5083 When a DELUDED PAGAN 🐷 eating Paul follower tells a Muslim to go BACKWARDS and worship the one who was BEGGING TO BE SAVED instead of the ONE☝🏼he was BEGGING TO what do you think a Muslim is going to say? THINK ABOUT IT!!!!! SMH The Christian Shahada - JOHN 17:3 This is life eternal so that they know YOU the *ONLY* TRUE GOD and jesus christ whom you sent. Muslim Shahada: There is NO OTHER GOD EXCEPT ALLAH And Muhammad pbuh is his last and final messenger!! ONE ☝🏼 GOD one prophet!!! GOD saved NOAH pbuh from the People with the Ark and Flood GOD saved MOSES pbuh from the Pharos by Splitting the Sea GOD saved JONAH pbuh from the Whale and Drowning GOD saved JESUS pbuh from the Romans and Jews GOD saved MUHAMMAD pbuh from the Pagans All these PROPHETS (Submitted their WILLS to GOD) SENT to carry the same ONE ☝🏼 message - *THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD!!* *ALLAH HU AKBAR* ❤️🕋❤️
It was a very odd argument, interesting, but odd. Because he was pretty much trying to show that the quran is provably divinely inspired by using math. Okay, great. But that alone is very vague, divine is a general term the refers to God and god(s). god(s) is a general term that could refer to God, god(s), angels, demons, humans even. And now you have to rely on your presuppositions to come to the conclusion that it is ALLAH that uses math and him only. Can it not be a demon that knows math well? Why does it have to be Allah?
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
I know both men and am certain that both would be very happy to debate again. I have debated Jay Smith once, and would be very pleased to debate him again, depending on whether the subject was one that interested me. But a second round would be the same as the first. I would focus on religious phenomena using the academic methods of Comparative Religion. Jay Smith would cordially blast Islam and promote his own faith. That is why we will never debate again. It would not be interesting to the public. But I would definitely have a hug for both guys if I ever met them again.
@donhue4546 because he realised it is a sham? Just like a lot many people in the west stop believing the bible and convert to Islam. Perhaps check the conversion rate in your country, it will be quite sizable. Now not everyone is smart like you to read a book, that Jay himself said has been changed and edited throughout the history, and say... you know what! This is the truth! Hallelujah!
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
The sacred text portrays God's direct words as verbatim, while the inspired word of God is conveyed through individuals who spoke as divinely guided. Often presented in reported speech, these messages serve as a bridge between the divine and human, delivering profound teachings and insights.
@@greenbluephantom3970 What do you mean there is no God but allah? Isn't allah muslims' god? It is whether which is the true God. I have seen many miracles that my christian God had performed. Clearly Jay destroyed Sabir.
@@AL-ip3vk God is a generic term but not His name. God can be sex,drugs,alcohol, or any addiction which forces you to submitt to it. Is Jesus,a prophet, the Christian God? Is Jehovah or Yaway the Jewish God? Is Quetzalcoatl the Mexican God? Is Zeus the Greek god,Jupiter the Roman god??? God is one not two nor three. Allah was in your Bible but European writers removed His name. You have heard people of many different faiths claiming miracles. What is a miracle? Things you don't understand are "miracles" to you but Stevie Wonder calls them superstition. In Islam the only miracle we talk of is the revelation of the Holy Quran and it's mathematical conciseness. Since Abraham is the father of three not two great religions;Why do you think Europeans only wanted to talk about the Old and New Testaments (Jewish, Christian)but never the Final Testament to This World the Holy Quran(Muslims)??? Muslims believe in all three testaments in their pure and untampered with forms.
@@AL-ip3vk Revelations:The great serpent that Olde Dragon also known as Satan deceived the whole world. The European peoples also known as White,Caucasian, enslaved,conquered the whole world it's peoples and resources with colonialism,capitalism,racism.
Nothing will save you on the day of judgement. Jennah is full. The 80 billion people there have said, "enough is enough, we can't take any more". Jahannam is now the better option. Find a nice cozy place by a warm fire, with the calming sound of screaming in the background. Curse Allah now, to secure your place. (We have laptops here in Jahannam). Yes we have everything you want here. Planes you can hijack. Images of people you hate, maybe even the people themselves. The 70 virgins you were promised. (They were never in Jannah) Stones to throw at the people who committed a certain sin. Axes for Hudud people. Yes its all here. Curse Allah now and be guaranteed a place in Jahannam.
Christianity: started by king Constantine and Paul . Islam: founded by Qibla head ABDL AL malik . Both this religion are politically inspired and not divine .. The only Religion which is Divine God inspired Is LOVE .
@@Mr.BR15 WRONG ! SAINT AUGUSTINE BROUGHT IT OVER. BUT TYPICALROMAN WHITE MAN, HE HAD TO PUT OWNERSHIP TO IT AND MADE IT THEIRS! THEY ADDED AND TAJE AWAY TO THEIR HEART CONTENT. NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY EUROPEAN. READ Daniel 7'9, and Revelation 1 14-15. BOTH God and Jesus are Black unless you all can't read.
He first said that the Bible is the word of God, then he said that it is not a complete book because we do not have the original copy [45:12] THEN he said that some parts were added to the Bible [46:07], THEN he said that this is not the word of God, but rather the words of a person inspired by God [52:38]. So he admits that the Bible is not the word of God and that it is distorted.
Wonderful debate. Good insights about Islam. Let our Muslim open up and allow investigation about their quantum and Muhammed as we allowed them to do regarding the Bible and Jesus. Most interesting facts are those related to mosques facing Patra and not Mecca.
Interesting discussion, thanks for both presentators. Now if anyone is sincere, smart, and interested enough should start doing his homework of studying and analysing both religion and even other alternatives in order to settle his answer to this very important question "why we're here, and where we're heading". Thank you all.
I'm comfortable that I know the answer to why are we here and where are we going. You would not agree with me but that's fine by me. I won't force my views on anyone or threaten them with the punishments prescribed for non belief by various religions.
@Thomas Vasquez I'm not religious. To me you guys are pretty much the same religiously but very different culturally being West vs Middle East. All religion is interpreted into culture. Economics trumps culture which trump religion. There were honour killings in medieval Christian Europe. Different time, different culture, different interpretation of religion. Philosophy, democracy, history, individualism appear to stem from ancient Rome and Athens and not from the Torah. Any other keen observations you need corrected?
@Thomas Vasquez Christianity has its own ethical problems. You can commit ANY sin, and as long you love Jesus 10 minutes before you die, you are rewarded with heaven. How many bad people post testimonials of them finding Jesus? Tons!. How many explain what they did to make it up to their victims when they were bad? None. What a self centrered and unethical belief system. Oh, and all Abrahamic religions are essentially a death cult. The end of the world is coming for the salvation of believers. Leaving us poor atheists to worry about the only home we actually have. You are thus dangerous to life. IMHO.
OPENING STATEMENTS 7:25 Dr Jay Smith's opening statements and claim about the earliest Quran copy and on The topic of debate, Is the bible or the quran the word of God? 12:40 Dr Shabir's opening statement on the 5 criteria's he will use to determine what book is the word of God. DR SMITHS 30 MINUTE SPEECH 18:10 Dr Jay Smiths problems with the qurans earliest 6 manuscripts. 21:10 Going over each Book and its comparison to todays quran. 28:34 Dr BruBekar research on 10 Ancient manuscripts and what intentional changes he found in the qurans. 32:46 Is this really the Word of God? or are we looking at the Word of Men, Explanation of Fabricated Stories in Quran and 3 common elements found in jewish apocryphas. I.E Borrowed Stories. 36:00 Would the Ancient Arabic Script Accommodate the Quran we have today? No. 39:45 Which Quran is Shabir talking about and mathematical equations? 43:54 We know the Men that wrote it, Christians dont claim it came down out of heaven Like Islam does. DR SHABIRS 30 MINUTE SPEECH 53:10 Dr Shabirs Argument for the Mathematic Miracle, number 19 and Design in the quran. 58:55 Shabir's response to Smiths Multiple Books claim and differences of them. 1:01:03 More on the Mathematical miracle in the quran. 1:05:02 The Number 19. 1:13:35 Dr Shabirs 1st Criterion on What Book is the word of God. 1:15:19 Dr shabirs 2nd Criterion. Dr shabirs 3rd criterion. 1:19:04 Dr Shabirs 4th Criterion. 1:20:26 Dr Shabirs 5th Criterion. 1:25:10 Dr Shabirs closing argument and summary. REBUTTALS 1:28:59 Dr Jay Smiths 5-minute rebuttal time, Dr Smiths Rebuttal on #19 in quran. 1:30:40 Dr Smiths rebuttal to Dr Shabirs 5 criteria's. 1:34:19 Dr Shabirs 5 Minute rebuttal and response to Dr Smiths question about what Quran Version is he talking about? QUESTION TIME 1:45:00 1st question for Dr Shabir, what do i have to do to become Muslim? 1:46:20 1st Question for Dr Smith, what do i have to do to become Christian? 1:49:15 2nd question for Dr Shabir, Explain the solar and lunar year? 1:51:37 2nd question for Dr Smith, why follow the bible? why not become an atheist? 1:55:00 3rd question for Dr Shabir, Does Allah support the freedom of worship? why in muslim countries are people prohibited from reading the bible? 1:58:29 3rd question for Dr Smith, If the Quran is not the word of God, then why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world? 2:01:19 4th question for Dr Shabir, if the quran we have now is the inspired unchanged word of God, were all the early manuscript's incorrect? 2:04:50 4th question for Dr Smith, could you read surah ayah 15:9 and the accompanying foot note. 2:08:30 5th question for Dr Shabir, how do you know the Early Quran variants are the accurate ones that are now in the 1924 standardized quran? 2:11:59 5th question for Dr Smith, where can we find Jesus in the old testament? 2:15:49 6th question for Dr Shabir, Mathematical patterns in the quran do not necessarily point to a divine source but if not human then perhaps a supernatural one, such as the devil or an evil spirit? 2:19:33 6th question for Dr Smith, on what basis do you attack the quran on textual variants when the bible has them too? FINAL CONCLUDING WORDS 2:23:40 Dr Shabirs Concluding words. 2:29:05 Dr Smiths Concluding words.
Are you sure? Jay will only say what comes in his mind to refute all that Dr. Shabir Ali says. Everything that Dr. Shabir says are facts. Dr. Shabir only talks on facts and the mathematical findings of the structure and words are all facts. Dr Shabir himself had applied the same procedures used to assess the Quran on the bible and the old testament but there are no patterns as seen from the Quran. I suggest you go and apply the procedures used to assess the Quran on any other books, I am sure you will never find any patterns in existence with them.
@rabiahcarrim485 There are numerical phenomena in the bible. Not only that but phenomena of names in geneologies where names have meanings that give messages. Idk much about the quran or islam which is why i am here but there are certainly phenomena in the bible as well.
@@dzaharsher6078 muslims never deny that present day bible even written by human beings is God inspired. Only present day bible has been corrupted by human beings where certain biblical stories told do not befits the character of the prophets in question. Human intervention is rife. This is the reason Muslim scholars will only accept stories told in the bible to be authentic only if they are verified by the Quran.
@rabiahcarrim485 But what does that have to do with God even if there is a "mathematical wonder". What kind of stupid criteria is that? A Devil can't create a mathematical wonder? In what world did God ever promise to make His word into a mathematical wonder or any other completely baseless and shallow criteria as such. It's irrelevant to holiness of certain words and narratives. Look at the characters, their virtues, their life to know if what they said could be considered the truth. Muhammad is a kind of man that belongs in jail. That's first thing. But, at the end of the day that mathematical thing is a myth and considering that there are many editions of this "holy" book, that narrative makes no sense. Neither does the language of the Quran. It's one of the worst literary works tbh. Not one person under this sun would read that book if it wasn't a forceful manipulative "must read" literature for delusional believers who because of their emotional attachment seek wonders in a text that they would otherwise laugh at, if it wasn't their own. The whole scientific miracle story doesn't even need to be mentioned. A total laughable nonsense. This is so stupid.
@@dark_mode Listen to Minister Farrakhan speaking on What America and Europe owes And What God Allah promises. Gog and Magog(Slavic and Teutonic races) the Devil of BOTH Bible and the Holy Quran. Bible says the Devil is a murderer,liar,Arch Deceiver of the Nations. The Great Serpent that Olde Dragon also known as Satan deceived the whole world of Dark mankind. Name ONE THING whites have NOT DONE that scripture says the mystery Devil would do??? Now tell us why we should read your book Satan???
I am neither a Christian or Muslim, if this debate was a boxing match Jay jabbed Shabir constantly and KO'd him several times. Shabir landed a few punches here and there but nothing too serious.
